1778:", agree with it or disagree with it, is a political cause/tendency with a name and groups who back the ideas. Often, "anti-imperialism" is a specific plank of a group or party's platform and sometimes "anti-imperialist" is part of the name for a party or organization. I created the categories to bring together groups and parties who endorse an "anti-imperialist" political outlook, for navigating purposes, not to endorse "anti-imperialism" as an ideology nor to endorse any particular political party or organization. My reward is getting accused of being a terrorism and extremism sympathizer. Yikes. Please assume good faith and try not to spout off outrageous claims about what I do or do not believe. As for South America, I believe I didn't get around to creating those categories yet, either because I didn't have the time or more likely because I couldn't find enough articles to create the categories. There's no secret or sinister reason I didn't create them, if that is what you are getting at (and you may not be).
1963:-- the term "imperialist" is most certainly subject to NPOV and subjectivity. Most Americans don't consider themselves imperialists but the histories of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Philippines, etc. tell another story, which is not to let the Spanish off the hook regarding the latter two, but... And most British people and certainly Unionists in Northern Ireland don't consider themselves imperialists or to be the tools of a malign and destructive imperialism, but most Irish nationalists and certainly all Irish "republicans" claim and see the exact opposite.
1782:
regardless of whether or not
Denmark and Spain are actually imperialist or not and regardless of how I feel about those countries and their politics. Categorizing by "anti-imperialist" ideology does not imply that the claims of the "anti-imperialist" groups in question are factually correct or that their actions are morally correct. If a group or party does not endorse the ideology of "anti-imperialism" and is thus incorrectly categorized as "anti-imperialist", then the category can be removed, but the categories themselves are fine.
2200:-- it is, as noted above, "a subjective and selective self-description, often for public consumption only", used by, among others, anarchists, fifth columnists, Iranian mullahs, the IRA, the FALN, the Khmer Rouge, the Bolshevists, the successive Kim dictatorships in North Korea, Robert Mugabe, Moammar Qaddafi, et al, as a catchall justification for anything they want to get away with doing.
1898:, have all called themselves "antiimperialist". It has become a catch-all phrase to some extent to justify violent political and societal activities in some parts of the world. Given that even less inflammatory terms such as "repression" and "victimology" have been deemed by consensus on Knowledge (XXG) to be subjective and non-encyclopaedic for the purposes of categorizations (please see
2108:
Tibet by many accounts, to the leaders of the Soviet Union who did the same in the Baltic States and
Central Asia as well as the Caucuses, and we could go on and on. Some would example that modern Indonesia, and maybe even more so early-post Dutch rule Indonesia was really just a case of Dutch imperial rule being replaced by Javanese imperial rule, at least outside of Java itself.
176:) first. As the process this is for is now defunct, we should examine the in-progress proposals for user review and contact the authors, or see what current process should take in the requests under preparation. I think it would be better to have a category around to keep track of the matter, until it's all said and done. Then when it is empty, it can be speedily deleted. --
2082:. However, categories offer a binary choice of inclusion or exclusion, without comment: either a page is in a category, or it isn't. There is no room for nuance or qualification or opposing viewpoints. Categories are great for some attributes which fit that binary model, but far too crude for complex and diverse ideological labels such as "anti-imperialist". --
198:" - that would apply to articles (or pages in another namespace where every page should be categorized), but user (sub)pages do not need to be categorized. Those I checked are drafts from several years ago so it's unlikely that anybody else would want to examine them and contact the authors (some of whom appear to have left Wp).
2072:
supporting the
Falklands War or the 2003 invasion of Iraq). Even the Marxist left can't agree about who is imperialist and who isn't -- there are long arguments about whether the USSR is anti imperialist or fits some definitions of imperialism. In a more mainstream setting, there's an argument over whether supporters of
1735:
reliable. Based on what I've seen these categories are being used for (if they were not designed for the purpose of) rehabilitating and respectabilising (how's that word!!) extremist factions and terrorist or terrorist-abetting groups (in Europe alone, those included in the categories CFDed here are the
2107:
The grouping of Anti-Zionist here inherently involves a Point-of View pushing about what
Zionism is. Better to group things by what they clearly oppose as opposed to what they ostensibly oppose. All the more so because anti-imperialism has been attributed to Mao, who created an imperialist regime in
1982:
I think there is a difference between calling oneself an imperialist versus acknowledging that someone else calls himself an anti-imperialist. That is the key difference with the other example, because acknowledging victimization (as a controversial fact) implies acknowledging the suppression (as an
1847:
article is sufficient to support this set of categories. We are not dealing with the personal opinion of any editor; we are dealing with facts, party positions, platforms, history and so on found in the WP articles. Categories have no 'position'; they are a means to help readers navigate to related
1941:
are comparable in this respect. With repression there is a POV problem because the oppressor will probably disagree with the accusation of being an oppressor. With anti-imperialist that isn't such a problem, it is (in itself) a neutral term, both people supporting anti-imperalism and people who are
1098:
per nom. It's unwise, in my opinion, to start creating situations in category names where we can choose to change a name as compared to how it appears in article-space. Such situations will only lead to confusion, and we should not presume a level of background knowledge such that readers will be
1781:
As for whether or not
Denmark or Spain are in fact "imperialist" countries, I don't really care in this context. I'm not here to judge that. Are there groups in Denmark and Spain that endorse an "anti-imperialist" ideology? If so, then those groups are ideologically "anti-imperialist" groups -
1734:
We must be vigilant not to allow categories to be worded in such a way that introduces subjectivity or selectivity, because categories -- unlike articles, which are subject to editors' excesses and POV until caught and corrected -- are considered to be and must remain impartial, universal and
1080:
versus a derived category name as in the nominated categories here. In the latter case we have a little more freedom in naming, we suffer a little less from ambiguity (because the derivation provides additional context) and we have a little more need to shorten the category name (because the
2071:
Each of these strands also lacks clear boundaries, and the debates about labels are not just theoretical, they are live. Within the UK, the Labour Party has at some times been notably anti-imperialist (e.g. when decolonising India), but at other times apparently imperialist (for example in
963:
it seems a strange result to rename "Mandarin-language" categories to "Mandarin
Chinese-language" while allowing "Cantonese-language" below. Although your proposals matches the names of the lead articles "Mandarin Chinese" and "Cantonese", "Mandarin Chinese" is disambiguation whereas
1868:, at least until clearer rationale for deletion is provided. The fact that anti-imperialist organizations exist in some countries and not in others is not relevant for having these categories, nor is the fact relevant that also some terrorist organizations are anti-imperialist.
2159:-- I see no OR problem in this, not is it POV, since it is about a point of view (which is legitimate. The question is whether those categorised belong in the categories: if they do not, the category should be removed. If that empties a category, it can then be deleted.
1755:). No to even mention the other continents, about which I feel less comfortable discussing and will yield to those editors who are more informed. I had to include them all, however, for procedural reasons. BTW: How come there are/were no parallel categories created for
2129:
fit most anti-imperialist calls, although it never progressed to the point of calling for violent actions intended to secure independence, partly because the goal of statehood was seen as a way to end imperialist oppression, so should that political party fit in this
1797:-- my reply above was to @Hmains regarding his comment. I actually never checked who created the categories, so I apologise for any oversight in that regard and do not assume bad faith on anyone's part, but my decision would have been the same. Yours.
1723:. "Anti-colonialism" is far more valid, less agitprop-ridden terminology, IMO, but that's not the point. Regarding European countries -- do you consider Denmark to be an imperialist nation (vis-a-vis Greenland)? Do you consider Spain to be imperialist
1531:
to parent "pop rock" categories. I don't think the CFD process has been followed with the category but it was with the article, where the consensus was to delete. If there is not a main article on the genre, the categories become highly subjective.
1816:, I appreciate the clarification/apology. Sorry if I got too defensive, I was just upset because I thought I was being accused of supporting things I find to be heinous. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
2060:
Sure, there is such a thing as anti-imperialism. The problem is that it's actually a set of very broad contexts with some overlap, but huge differences. Marxist anti-imperialism has little in common with the
840:. This is teetering on the edge between "keep" and "no consensus" but either way after two months this is time to close with the "not renamed" result. Renaming the two odd-categories-out as suggested by
1408:
1942:
against it may both accept that a certain group calls itself anti-imperialist. I fear if this category would be deleted, we can no longer categorize any group of people based on their convictions.
1019:
42:
37:
1890:?"), was just that, a question, with no bearing on the validity on these nominations for deletion. Further, and far more importantly, the point is that the term "anti-imperialism" is a
1424:
2266:. If other features e.g. communism or independence movements are considered anti-imperialist, well, there are specific categories for those defining characteristics already. â
893:
768:
per
RevelationDirect. It is notable that it is a tribute album, debatable whether being a Taylor Swift tribute album is notable especially as there is only the one! --
1983:
equally controversial fact), while in this case acknowledging that someone has expressed (as a fact) a self-stated conviction (as a belief) doesn't imply anything.
1444:
Evidently, this was emptied before the discussion which is out of process. That having been said, if there is not article on the genre, then delete the category. â
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I've opened up a full discussion for this purpose. In the case of consensus concluding that the current category names suffice, at the very least,
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I suspect many of those categories were created because there was no eponymous category named after the artist/band. That is not the case here.
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For categories, we generally include disambiguation in the names regardless if it is otherwise clear the other topics with the same nameâsee
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1481:: despite repeated deletion of the English article, the term persists internationally. There are lead articles in French, Italian, Spanish (
909:
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no reasoning advanced for deletion, list a list of label words is not an argument. Certainly a reasonable subset of its parent categories.
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They get a free pass because they have no organised domestic (violent) dissidents at least regarding the territories in question, I guess.
1717:
Are you serious? The very term "anti-imperialist" is subjective, cultural, irredentist and unreliable. One man's imperialism is another's
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2245:. Can't see any reason for these categories, which lump together organisations with widely differing ideologies. Indeed, highly POV. --
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per
Fayenatic london. I think we should distinguish between the situation that a category is literally named after an article, like in
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for speedy renaming because I was waiting for the others to get renamed. This category should be merged to whatever the outcome is for
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and its subcategories, for example. That was the basis of my nomination. There are exceptions, like all the subcategories of
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On another note, the way the United States treated Utah
Territory fit most definitions of imperialism, the rhetoric of the
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In article text, these complex concepts can be discussed and explained with nuances, and contradictory views presented per
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for the reasons given above, and because these categories do not seem useful for navigation. Moreover, this is rarely
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2015 September 9#Category:Korean-language singers of South Korea
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I've never heard of "Mandarin
Chinese-language". It's either "Mandarin Chinese" or "Mandarin-language".
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1411:. If there is no genre then there should be no category. Similar categories to be deleted include
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having the word "basketball" in the title is repetitive as "baloncesto" is basketball in Spanish.
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1894:. I mean, for gosh sake, the Khmer Rouge, the Bolshevists, the successive Kim dictatorships in
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The rhetorical question I posited ("How come there are/were no parallel categories created for
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The category currently contains various proposals. Please recategorize or delete them (through
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Peterkingiron seems to explain it better than I do, see the last lines of the discussion.
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and you will see many other one album categories. What is the point of nominating only
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down at the end of the discussion can be done as a seperate (and fresh) nomination. -
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Stub category I emptied four days ago, after the Moroccan region changed its name to
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_April_8#Category:Piano_rock_songs
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503:â I'm not a regular here and I'm getting conflicting advice on how to handle this.
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subjective and selective self-description, often for public consumption only
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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able to "figure it out". Sorry, but many people are dumber than you think.
814:
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
1423:. Note that the category of piano rock songs was deleted in April 2014 at
1144:: note that I did not merely oppose the nomination as stated, but made an
1407:
The notional genre of piano rock was deleted twice, the second time at
1546:
Delete. Rock music with a piano? Not a genre and non-defining. --
1409:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Piano rock (2nd nomination)
2004:-- with all due respect, I don't know what that means. Yours,
2147:- subjective and unclear. This is not even a close call, IMO.
158:
discussion, and therefore this category isn't needed anymore.
898:
Category:Mandarin Chinese-language singers of South Koreaââââ
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Category:Anti-imperialist political parties in North America
2289:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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Category:Anti-imperialist organizations in North America
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per nominator, as a hopelessly POV and subjective (see
1637:, which I just noticed. It is manifestly and blatantly
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to both parent cats: there is only one album in this. â
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Anti-imperialism is a significant political ideology.
1910:), I see no difference with this terminology. I think
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Category:Mandarin Chinese-language television stations
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Templates for discussion#Confused
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Category:Anti-imperialist political parties in Africa
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Category:Anti-imperialist political parties in Europe
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Category:Mandarin-language singers of South Koreaââââ
2303:). No further edits should be made to this section.
1848:articles--that is the sole purpose of categories.
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Category:Anti-imperialist political parties in Asia
1608:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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1671:Category:Anti-imperialist organizations in Africa
1586:Category:Anti-imperialist organizations in Europe
152:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for comment/User conduct
1749:Revolutionary Communist Youth League (Bolshevik)
1687:Category:Anti-imperialist organizations in Asia
1645:, subjective, and, for good measure, agitprop.
949:I initially nominated the above categories for
941:to Category:Mandarin (Chinese)-language singers
906:Category:Mandarin-language television stationsâ
1042:as more concise and sufficiently unambiguous.
2065:of 1898, and neither has much in common with
886:Category:Mandarin Chinese-language singersâââ
426:Category:Dakhla-Oued Ed-Dahab geography stubs
298:Category:Baloncesto MĂĄlaga basketball players
252:Category:Baloncesto MĂĄlaga basketball players
196:Please recategorize or delete them ... first.
8:
1050:thanks for making this a full nomination. â
932:(not included in original speedy nomination)
404:. Wrong venue, and ultimately dealt with. â
1663:Category:Anti-imperialist political parties
1012:Category:Mandarin-language singers of China
964:"Mandarin-language" is already unambiguous.
939:Category:Mandarin-language singers of China
730:that it is a Gene Vincent tribute album.)
1774:Wow. I created these categories because "
1158:Category:Mandarin Chinese-language albums
989:Category:Mandarin Chinese-language albums
930:Category:Mandarin Chinese-language albums
874:Category:Mandarin Chinese-language filmsâ
18:Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion
922:Category:Mandarin Chinese-language songs
216:. This is redundant wp infrastructure.
1010:Addendum: I actually hadn't nominated
882:Category:Mandarin-language singersâââ
370:Template:OuedEdDahabLagouira-geo-stub
7:
670:Take a look at the parent category:
597:Category:Taylor Swift tribute albums
544:Category:Taylor Swift tribute albums
1081:derivation makes the name longer).
1016:Category:Mandarin-language singers
953:under C2C, in addition to C2D for
302:Category:Baloncesto MĂĄlaga players
28:
1615:The result of the discussion was:
1495:https://www.wikidata.org/Q2090023
1236:The result of the discussion was:
1162:Category:Mandarin-language albums
993:Category:Mandarin-language albums
976:, which don't have the qualifier.
870:Category:Mandarin-language filmsâ
835:The result of the discussion was:
572:The result of the discussion was:
424:last month. The stubs are now in
399:The result of the discussion was:
280:The result of the discussion was:
88:The result of the discussion was:
2063:American Anti-Imperialist League
1413:Category:Piano rock video albums
1331:Category:Piano rock video albums
1154:Category:Mandarin-language songs
1148:proposal: keep most, but rename
985:Category:Mandarin-language songs
1417:Category:Live piano rock albums
1369:Category:Live piano rock albums
1737:Official Irish Republican Army
1635:this category and others below
961:with the following rationale:
722:in a sensible fashion. (EG in
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430:propose deleting the template
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113:Category:Userspace RFC drafts
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1006:04:31, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
807:Mandarin-language categories
778:12:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
761:20:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
740:13:24, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
705:20:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
688:11:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
666:05:35, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
513:09:38, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
488:23:08, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
467:16:25, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
442:09:29, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
338:20:30, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
321:14:03, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
290:00:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
223:06:28, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
205:06:28, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
186:05:43, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
163:19:25, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
154:was marked as closed after
2320:
1255:Category:Piano rock albums
1208:Category:Piano rock albums
678:'s category for deletion?
1078:Category:Mandarin Chinese
957:, but the nomination was
2292:Please do not modify it.
1597:Please do not modify it.
1567:Please do not modify it.
1218:Please do not modify it.
1190:Please do not modify it.
1018:under the same basis of
974:Category:Singles (music)
817:Please do not modify it.
789:Please do not modify it.
577:to parent categories. â
554:Please do not modify it.
526:Please do not modify it.
381:Please do not modify it.
351:Please do not modify it.
262:Please do not modify it.
234:Please do not modify it.
70:Please do not modify it.
1507:es:CategorĂa:Piano_rock
1499:it:Categoria:Piano rock
1421:Category:Piano rock EPs
1293:Category:Piano rock EPs
1150:Category:Mandarin songs
1040:Use "Mandarin-language"
981:Category:Mandarin songs
955:Category:Mandarin songs
918:Category:Mandarin songs
724:Category:Tribute albums
720:Category:Tribute albums
672:Category:Tribute albums
1405:Nominator's rationale:
947:Nominator's rationale:
633:Nominator's rationale:
309:Nominator's rationale:
149:Nominator's rationale:
2076:are anti-imperialist.
2074:Scottish independence
983:should be renamed to
2127:Peoples Party (Utah)
1753:Republican Sinn FĂ©in
1741:Red Action (Croatia)
1074:Category:F(x) (band)
970:Category:F(x) (band)
422:Dakhla-Oued Ed-Dahab
1933:I don't think that
1795:@Bohemian Baltimore
1505:; see also Spanish
726:I cannot tell from
497:User:Carlossuarez46
326:Support name change
2215:What do you think
1818:Bohemian Baltimore
1784:Bohemian Baltimore
728:Crazy Legs (album)
2132:John Pack Lambert
2110:John Pack Lambert
2098:
1442:Agree with caveat
927:Propose renaming:
915:Propose renaming:
903:Propose renaming:
891:Propose renaming:
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474:ought this be in
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1845:Anti-imperialism
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1759:? Just curious.
1745:Red Army Faction
1720:Manifest Destiny
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1534:RevelationDirect
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2009:Quis separabit?
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2217:@Necrothesp
1896:North Korea
1429:Binksternet
1146:alternative
838:not renamed
178:70.51.44.60
2247:Necrothesp
2149:Neutrality
2130:framework?
2087:HairedGirl
2067:Khomeinism
2052:Delete all
1935:repression
1732:That's why
1548:Richhoncho
770:Richhoncho
55:October 13
43:October 14
38:October 12
2297:talk page
2268:Fayenatic
2198:@Dimadick
1602:talk page
1572:talk page
1511:Fayenatic
1223:talk page
1195:talk page
1166:Fayenatic
1113:Timmyshin
1052:Fayenatic
822:talk page
794:talk page
559:talk page
531:talk page
450:per nom.
386:talk page
356:talk page
328:per nom.
267:talk page
239:talk page
75:talk page
2299:or in a
2178:Dimadick
2095:contribs
1604:or in a
1574:or in a
1446:Justin (
1225:or in a
1197:or in a
1046:Explicit
824:or in a
796:or in a
640:Justin (
561:or in a
533:or in a
388:or in a
358:or in a
313:Rikster2
269:or in a
241:or in a
160:Armbrust
77:or in a
20: |
2157:Comment
2123:Comment
1863:Tend to
1841:comment
1529:Upmerge
1479:Comment
1382:history
1344:history
1306:history
1268:history
1142:Comment
1132:Lugnuts
1076:and in
959:opposed
766:Upmerge
693:Comment
636:Upmerge
610:history
505:Cobblet
472:Comment
434:Cobblet
126:history
2260:Delete
2243:Delete
2145:Delete
2105:Delete
2091:(talk)
1850:Hmains
1751:, and
1701:Hmains
1661:Also:
1618:delete
1419:, and
1239:delete
1156:, and
1126:Oppose
1109:Oppose
1096:Rename
1070:Oppose
499:, see
476:WP:TFD
461:(talk)
455:Bilorv
448:Delete
330:Jrcla2
283:rename
219:DexDor
214:Delete
201:DexDor
174:WP:MfD
91:delete
2278:ondon
2085:Brown
1521:ondon
1390:watch
1386:links
1352:watch
1348:links
1314:watch
1310:links
1276:watch
1272:links
1176:ondon
1062:ondon
732:Oculi
618:watch
614:links
575:merge
134:watch
130:links
46:: -->
16:<
2251:talk
2182:talk
2174:keep
2165:talk
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2114:talk
2029:talk
1989:talk
1948:talk
1937:and
1874:talk
1866:keep
1854:talk
1843:the
1822:talk
1812:Hi,
1793:Hi,
1788:talk
1705:talk
1697:keep
1552:talk
1538:talk
1433:talk
1394:logs
1378:talk
1374:edit
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