460:"Why do you choose to repeatedly make things difficult in that way?" You'll note that I don't post Speedy CfDs like that anymore for precisely that reason. Feel free to be upset about it further if you want but I make it a point to not do that so I don't have to hear it from you anymore. I don't think you have been pleasant in my interactions with you, no matter how very very very very very very very very polite you think you are. If you want to continue being rude, off-putting, and condescending (although, admittedly in only a mild or sometimes back-handed way), then I'll continue dreading should you talk to me. The love-it-or-leave-it approach of ANI is also wasted effort--I never said you shouldn't be an admin or should be sanctioned or something like that. I said that I think you are needlessly petty toward me in particular (from what I've seen--this may be a consistent way that you approach things). Rules are fine and well and there are many times when it's necessary to follow a process to maintain fairness or safety. This is not one of those times. If I thought you were a bad editor or a bad admin or a bad person, then I would have pursued some different course of action a long time ago. I don't. I'm simply pointing out for your benefit and my ability to blow off some steam how your actions are perceived by someone else who has also been here a very long time and made many edits across many parts of the encyclopedia. I assume you feel the same way: if you thought I were doing something outright unacceptable, you could always put me up for some sanction. The fact that you don't gives me a tacit approval that you realize that I'm trying to make the encyclopedia better and on balance I do. For what it's worth, your justification rings hollow again to me: Ross wasn't Indian, so he shouldn't be in any "Indian " category nor any subcategory of it. I don't know you and I have no beef with you--certainly, I'd prefer that an admin be too much a stickler than not enough, but too much anything is too much. In this case and considering all of the other times we've had back-and-forth, I can just tell that what you're going to write is going to be something that I will dislike. Not just because you will have an approach that I think is different than mine and certainly not because I think you are malicious but because comments like, "My closing note was quite polite, so I am sorry to see the tone of your comment here, when a quick 'oops! fixing my mistake' would have been better" are just smug and abrasive. Feel free to comment here, respond on my talk, email me, or if you're just over it, turn this into a collapsible section and move on to something else which I've no doubt will be a better use of your time and talents in making the encyclopedia a better place. ―
342:
what you perceive to be transgressions of the CfD process. I've seen this at /Speedy where I've suggested that "X" be renamed "Y" because the main article is named "Y" but it was contested because I didn't provide a link to "Y"... As though it's simply impossible to find the article oneself or even--God forbid--take my claim at face value. So again, here we go with what I certainly think is a punitive and pedantic waste of everyone's time (yours included). Finally, if your concern is about miscategorization, I'd like to point out that presently, the
409:
As to CFD/S, it's the same problem of your attitude to other editors participating in the consensus-forming process, which appears to me to be show them little regard. When you make a C2D nomination, you must have have identified the head article (or else the nomination would be bogus), so it takes a
332:
Had I known that you were going to be the one to close it, I definitely would have taken pains to be excessively detailed since you were worried about something which is irrelevant. Since you have a habit of willfully doing that, I will have to be ever vigilant that you may make a point of doing this
255:
be in the category you claimed they should be in. So what was the point of your comment? A simple, "Whoops! I didn't notice that was I said was irrelevant" would suffice here as well. I've had many interactions with you at CfD where you claim that my proposals are somehow unintelligible or you feign
341:
is other than possibly pettiness or vindictive passive-aggression on your part. I've no doubt that you're a fine editor otherwise and maybe a very polite person on the whole but I also feel like you make it a point to go out of your way to be needlessly particular as some kind of punishment against
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If merger is not needed because the two articles were already in the target category, then of course deletion would suffice. But your previous nomination didn't mention that important fact; you chose to mention only now. Please don't blame other editors for being unaware of facts which could
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And yes, you do have a repeated habit of failing to communicate simple but crucial facts about your CFD nominations. There's an easy remedy: take a few extra seconds to explain your proposed action, rather than assuming that other editors will replicate the research which you choose not to
626:. IMHO there was sufficient consensus to close that discussion as delete, but the closer's labour on reducing the current backlog at CFD is appreciated, and I know from experience that such work does not always allow all the participants' arguments and claims to be checked when closing. –
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few seconds for you to link the main article with the nomination. Then anyone who wants to check can open the article with a single click, and check that it is not a redirect and assess its stability at the current title. If you do not provide that link, it's a multi-step process for
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is not an Indian person or citizen, yet he's subcategorized that way now. As you may see from my edits above, all of the three relevant bios are in the proper category now but if we wait for this process to run, Ross' bio will actually be the one miscategorized.
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conflicts. Most of these arose out of the way that USSR broke up and the hegemony that Russia still seems to seek over other ex-Soviet countries. On the other hand, I am not sure that the revolutions cat is useful, as the countries were by then independent.
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per nom. I seem to recall some
Buddhists traveling abroad to preach their message, and arguably some Sufi spreaders of religion have done so, but there is always a question of how well the term missionary can be correctly applied to non-Christians at
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As you say, you have been here a long time and you have many edits, so you will know that things need to be done in particular ways ... and long enough too to know that "this needs fixing" is not a personal attack. Please stop treating it as one.
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1. I have no view on whether to keep the category. As a closer, my job is to weigh whether there is a policy-based consensus for the action actually proposed, and in this case there was no consensus to remove all the articles from the Indian
221:
Any way, replying in your tone: Why do you repeatedly choose to be too lazy to check whether the CFD action which you have proposed is in fact the action for which you have written a rationale? Please don't blame others for your neglect.
602:. As the nominator stated in the previous CFD, not all members are Indians; and as I stated there, all members are already directly categorized in parent categories where this is appropriate. For the record, in case of future changes:
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2. If a nomination does not provide a rationale which addresses the action actually specified, then I will close it as "keep". If it does provide a rationale which addresses that action, then I weigh the consensus. Simple, isn't
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And if you think that time has been wasted, then I agree: it has been wasted because of your persistent unwillingness to communicate the necessary information which you already know. You can very easily fix that if you want
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This is part of the general tree of nationalism by country. That said, it appears either some articles need to be removed, or have their articles expanded to explain that the subject is actually somehow a form of
Cambodian
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other editor involved in the consensus-forming process. Why do you choose to repeatedly make things difficult in that way? It would be v quick and easy for you to facilitate others rather than subject them to a guessing
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ignorance and act coy about what is clearly the case. The consensus was to delete, the relevant categories would be populated, I don't see what the problem is other than excessive lawyering of rules toward what end...? ―
1578:
odd use of
Eurasia; presumably, if databases have a physical location they are either in Europe or Asia not encountered willy-nilly across the whole swath; next we'll have Old World vs. New World databases....
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Great. You fixed the prob with the speedies, so you can fix this problem too. That's all. Just fix the problem, and then I will neither need to leave a polite note when closing a CFD (as in the one I just
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in the future. The consensus was obviously delete (and with good reason) but you closed it as keep for some reason that escapes me. You were worried that the two relevant biographies wouldn't be in
1815:, incomplete inclusion criteria since there is no objective end date to these categories. For how long are we going to categorize events between or in independent states in their predecessor tree?
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1329:. There is scope to easily add a country hierarchy, which could follow that name closely, but I am not sure that "by mission continent" would work for the nominated categories. –
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Having Nobel laureatte categories below nationality level is just plain overcategorization. The fact that all 4 articles are already in appropriate nationality categories is enough.
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conflicts, as these are conflicts caused by the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I am not certain what the revolution category covers. Every revolution in the last 26 years?
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I think it would be a good idea to clarify that it is by continent of destination, if a suitable form of words can be found. I can't think of a suitable wording myself. --
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I'm not going to argue about tone-policing--it's wasted effort. Your fear was obviously unfounded--had the category just been deleted, then the two relevant entries would
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as the new top category; very few non-Christian missionaries traveled abroad for their missionary work so they are unlikely to become categorized by location.
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the Mormon hierarchy also has a sub-cat for Latin
America, but that's close enough to "by continent" for us not to change the proposal just for that one. –
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538:– as the 2 Indian members are already in the merge target and the 2 non-Indians are not (and should not be) in the merge target, the effect is identical.
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My closing note was quite polite, so I am sorry to see the tone of your comment here, when a quick "oops! fixing my mistake" would have been better.
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You are making a big mountain of some thing very very very very very very very very simple. So I will summarise it in very very simple terms.
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I'm okay with an alternative wording that reflects destination. At the moment I can't think of anything better than "by mission continent".
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editor who makes those checks. So whatever time you save by making an incomplete nomination imposes a burden of multiples of that time on
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would it be helpful to indicate that this is by continent of destination, rather than continent of origin? Cf.
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Fair enough, but we don't have an article for "Cambodian nationalism" and we do for "Khmer nationalism".
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Thats' why I will continue to oppose any such speedy proposals from any editor ... tho you are the
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917:'s question: I would recommend to keep the categories as part of an established tree by country.
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Knowledge:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_January_17#Category:Nobel_laureates_from_West_Bengal
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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789:, while Khmer nationalism is a notable topic within Cambodian nationalism, it's not the same.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Thanks. I think we could treat
Central + South America as a continent for Mormon purposes.
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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of them are already in the proposed merge category. It's wasteful to go through this again. ―
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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496:) nor have to choose to whether to respond to your complaints when you do fix the problem.
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1379:. I have collected that and comparable categories (by country or continent) in a new
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1291:, but only the Christian categories have been sub-divided by location/continent. –
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My point is not all about lawyering. It is about avoiding miscategorisation.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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I have no intention of changing my approach, and if you don't like it,
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editor who has regularly failed to do so, or objected when challenged.
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These are all categories by continent, and should be named as such.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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considered crucial but chose not to mention when it mattered.
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On closer inspection it is 3 Indian members (all already in
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
337:. They are. So I'm still confused as to what exactly the
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Category:Seventh-day
Adventist missionaries by continent
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Category:Seventh-day
Adventist missionaries by location
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1173:- assuming we do only have continents in the series.
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Category:Congregationalist missionaries by continent
1904:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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1466:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Congregationalist missionaries by location
995:). No further edits should be made to this section.
967:). No further edits should be made to this section.
889:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
708:). No further edits should be made to this section.
680:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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825:That happens more often. We don't have an article
1124:Category:Roman Catholic missionaries by continent
1120:Category:Roman Catholic missionaries by location
1106:Category:Presbyterian missionaries by continent
1102:Category:Presbyterian missionaries by location
1115:Category:Protestant missionaries by continent
139:, why did you chose to be so nit-picky? Only
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1606:, would you like to amend the nomination? --
1545:revised nomination based on discussion below
1377:Category:Expatriates by country of residence
1242:Category:Christian missionaries by continent
1111:Category:Protestant missionaries by location
1088:Category:Methodist missionaries by continent
1061:Category:Christian missionaries by continent
350:miscategorized as they are subcategories of
1632:Thanks for your observation, you're right.
1238:Category:People by occupation and continent
1084:Category:Methodist missionaries by location
1079:Category:Lutheran missionaries by continent
1057:Category:Christian missionaries by location
1043:Category:Anglican missionaries by continent
1075:Category:Lutheran missionaries by location
1052:Category:Baptist missionaries by continent
1039:Category:Anglican missionaries by location
1232:. Though I would prefer to merge the top
1097:Category:Mormon missionaries by continent
1048:Category:Baptist missionaries by location
123:/other nationality subcats as appropriate
117:Category:Nobel laureates from West Bengal
60:Category:Nobel laureates from West Bengal
1093:Category:Mormon missionaries by location
851:This is true, so what do you recommend?
1478:according to the corrected nomination.
1327:Category:Ambassadors by mission country
41:
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143:three of these four are Indian and
18:Knowledge:Categories for discussion
1034:Category:Missionaries by continent
28:
1701:The result of the discussion was:
1473:The result of the discussion was:
1234:Category:Missionaries by location
1030:Category:Missionaries by location
1002:The result of the discussion was:
974:Category:Missionaries by location
715:The result of the discussion was:
88:The result of the discussion was:
1774:Category:Post-Soviet revolutions
1007:as "...by mission continent". –
624:Category:British Nobel laureates
1598:Category:Databases by continent
1542:Category:Databases by continent
753:Category:Cambodian nationalists
616:Category:Indian Nobel laureates
558:Category:Indian Nobel laureates
352:Category:Indian Nobel laureates
335:Category:Indian Nobel laureates
121:Category:Indian Nobel laureates
1736:Category:Post-Soviet conflicts
1673:Category:Post-Soviet conflicts
1381:Category:People by destination
741:Category:Cambodian nationalism
687:Category:Cambodian nationalism
346:biographical article actually
131:per the closing suggestion at
1:
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1862:09:12, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
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1624:08:39, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
1538:Category:Databases in Eurasia
1496:Category:Databases in Eurasia
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1445:Category:Databases in Eurasia
1313:, pinging other participants
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1183:00:36, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
831:Category:Moroccan nationalism
641:14:28, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
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1870:As recent as 2010 and 2014.
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1375:The ambassadors are part of
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757:Category:Khmer nationalists
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745:Category:Khmer nationalism
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658:02:23, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
1287:hierarchy includes other
829:either, while we do have
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1893:Please do not modify it.
1683:Please do not modify it.
1655:Please do not modify it.
1455:Please do not modify it.
1427:Please do not modify it.
1289:Missionaries by religion
1144:(Categories all tagged).
984:Please do not modify it.
956:Please do not modify it.
697:Please do not modify it.
669:Please do not modify it.
564:was a citizen of India.
70:Please do not modify it.
560:) and 1 non-Indian, as
1810:Nominator's rationale:
1706:(for conflicts) &
1554:Nominator's rationale:
1140:Nominator's rationale:
764:Nominator's rationale:
600:Delete without merging
295:You aren't hearing me.
129:Nominator's rationale:
827:Moroccan nationalism
137:User:BrownHairedGirl
1710:(for revolutions).
885:CFD 2017 January 20
608:Rabindranath Tagore
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1725:non-admin closure
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585:per Oculi.
356:Ronald Ross
1611:HairedGirl
1483:Od Mishehu
1358:HairedGirl
1240:, leaving
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894:HairedGirl
504:HairedGirl
436:HairedGirl
308:HairedGirl
227:HairedGirl
55:February 5
43:February 6
38:February 4
1898:talk page
1688:talk page
1660:talk page
1480:עוד מישהו
1460:talk page
1432:talk page
1385:Fayenatic
1331:Fayenatic
1293:Fayenatic
1196:Fayenatic
1009:Fayenatic
989:talk page
961:talk page
722:Fayenatic
702:talk page
674:talk page
628:Fayenatic
401:category.
75:talk page
1900:or in a
1854:Dimadick
1690:or in a
1662:or in a
1619:contribs
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1171:Support
614:are in
339:problem
199:, and
1813:delete
1708:delete
1615:(talk)
1576:Delete
1557:delete
1362:(talk)
1259:Rename
1155:(talk)
1005:rename
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787:Oppose
646:Delete
622:is in
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312:(talk)
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419:game.
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214:Koavf
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180:☯
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176:☺
174:C
172:☮
170:T
168:❤
165:)
161:a
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