Knowledge (XXG)

:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 August 27 - Knowledge (XXG)

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segregated..." Also, when I created the original category I left it ambiguous with intention that I populate it with articles on other schools segregated by ethnic or racial compositions, including historically segregated Native American schools, schools for specific European ethnic groups and for Asians in the U.S. Each of these may be notable enough to warrant a Knowledge (XXG) article, and allowance should be made for their categorization.
638:. The reason for this nomination is that this category only contains self-produced albums, therefore is not a defining characteristic. An analogy would be I cooked my dinner last night, but that doesn’t make me a chef! Unless producing for other artists there would be no entries in the cat which are not in 461:
So you are saying that Knowledge (XXG) must not have a category for schools that were established and operated for African Americans during times when African Americans were not allowed to be educated in "regular" schools, and that the reason for this is that an entity's original purpose and function
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segregated schools is appropriate, but does not account for the current trend of defacto segregation in the US today, which is a heavily research phenomenon. I would suggest that labeling a category in the way that's suggested would warrant the creation of another category to the effect of "currently
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is identified as the main article for the category. I do not recommend "Black schools in the United States" as a category name because I'm uncomfortable with the name "black school" as a descriptor for the category scope. The proposed name "African American segregated schools in the United States" is
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Leaving aside reference issues, still doesn't warrant "album produced by Lennon." If he is credited as producer of any of the songs, I suspect its "executive." Certainly no one is suggesting that Lennon was a professional producer, merely a person who had the position to be able to claim the title -
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Rename is needed to make the category name match the actual scope of the category. All category contents are, in fact, schools that were segregated schools for African Americans. White-only schools also are properly termed "segregated schools," but there are no such schools in this category, and the
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and the nomination should be withdrawn. However, this does not mean I have changed my mind. It's fancruft, no more, no less, how can we big up our favorite artist? Who is going to look up John Lennon albums by the one's he produced? Absolutely nobody. Let's hope the following sub-cats don't appear
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Another problem here: a number of the schools in the category (the ones that are still around), and even more of the ones that would be in the category if we included schools that were white-only as well, are obviously not segregated anymore. Conversely, schools that were notably segregated in the
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I just found -- and added to the category -- four articles about people of The Hollywood Reporter, thus increasing the category size 3-fold. Many individual journalists and publishers are strongly associated with a particular publication, and these "publication people" categories help Wikipedians
148:) 19:23, 27 August 2011 (UTC) I should disclose that the category did also contain some articles and categories generally related to the topics of racial segregation and desegregation in U.S. schools (including one article about segregation of Hispanic children), but I created a broader category, 413:
segregated school requires some judgment and is subject to change over time -- it's not a defining characteristic that can be used unambiguously for categorization. In contrast, there is no doubt that the schools now listed in this category were solely for African Americans.
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as a shell category to sit one level above it, to be populated with subcategories for segregated schools for other groups. I don't think the name "racially segregated schools" works because Hispanic status is not technically considered to be a "race".
367: 88: 305: 665:. It does not matter that they are self produced; also does not matter that they exist in a different, related but not duplicative category in a different category tree. WP categories allow for this, sometimes demand this. 682:
That some -- but not all -- of the category contents are self-produced -- often with Phil Spector, who has his own category -- doesn't seem to me to be a valid argument for deletion. And in fact, there is one record
222:) 20:13, 27 August 2011 (UTC) Please note that the term "segregated schools" does not just apply to schools for students from oppressed groups -- the U.S. has had thousands of white-only segregated schools, too. -- 515:
and manually moving all of the contents of the existing category (3 categories and 26 pages) into that category, but it would be "cleaner" (not to mention being less work) to rename the existing category.
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Time to regroup after the discussion of the renaming proposal got diverted into an interesting discussion of history and politics. Please focus on the original proposal, as amended by Roscelese:
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this one as not all racially segregated schools were segregating black people. California also had Asian schools, while the Southwest had Mexican schools. I would support a
435:, a quick perusal of a few of the categories contents: most of these are "formerly segregated schools", which by most reckoning would be most schools in the south prior to 273:
Indeed, the category is essentially historical. The schools in the category are schools that were established to educate African Americans during the segregation era. --
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is not defining? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why wouldn't the original purpose and function of these schools be a defining characteristic for them? --
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past, such as Little Rock, are not in the category because they are no longer segregated. We should decide on a standard for including schools in this category. –
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Right but none of those songs were performed by John Lennon, from what I can see, and so his role is just like the other producers listed for that album: a
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should be created as a subcategory and the 'black schools' moved there, as an alternative to renaming this one. It could then be expanded to include
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OK, so rename this category (because it was developed as a category for African American schools, notwithstanding its broader name) and recreate
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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is not an album produced by John Lennon, it's a compilation album with a song or two produced by John Lennon.--
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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American schools that were segregated, especially once renamed to make clear that it's a historical category.
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That gives allowance for all the issues I have raised, and most others mentioned by other editors above. •
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Currently unnecessary because all it contains is the people subcategory and the article of the same name.
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per before 1963, this state was formally known as Malaya before the unification with Sabah and Sarawak.
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segregation exists, but I don't believe that's a valid basis for categorization. Identification of a
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this category collectivizes etymologies of particular places, rather than generally; a
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to every place in the South that pre-existed 1865 and other such non-defining cats.
1589:. Since it can be legitimately populated, it's probably OK as one in the series of 942: 132: 1554:, but that cat has survived 3 CFDs. Can the nominator give a more valid reason? -- 495:
because that is, in fact, the scope of that category as it is currently populated.
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Category:Historically segregated African American schools in the United States
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Category:Historically segregated African American schools in the United States
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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Category:Historically black universities and colleges in the United States
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but that's another issue, way beyond the reason for my nomination. --
838:. I am being ironic and annoyed. Probably annoying, too! Cheers. -- 175:
I think the nom's reasoning is very sound, but I'm going to have to
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to avoid quibbling over whether single-sex schools count, though. –
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Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
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Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
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Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
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Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
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Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
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Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
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for those items, and moved some content out of this category. --
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Category:Historically segregated schools in the United States
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in 1963. The head articles already employ this naming, see
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and possibly other categories to be created in the future.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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These changes could possibly be accomplished by creating
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Category:Racially segregated schools in the United States
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with the above nominated category, perhaps renamed as
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The name of the state between 1948 and 1963 is 500:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 489:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 349:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 211:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 150:Category:School segregation in the United States 119:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 97:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 60:Category:Segregated schools in the United States 962:Category:Aviation history of the United Kingdom 936:Category:Aviation history of the United Kingdom 906:Category:Aviation history of the United Kingdom 836:Category:Albums with piano-accompaniment by Foo 1550:- It is far more likely to be populated than 136:consistent with the category hierarchies for 8: 310:Category:African American segregated schools 934:Only one article, which can be included in 343:I would suggest that the category tree be: 1055: 716:Come and Get It: The Best of Apple Records 686:Come and Get It: The Best of Apple Records 661:part of an existing category structure of 441:Category:Locations with legalized slavery 18:Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion 1979:Category:Etymologies of geographic names 1925:Category:Etymologies of geographic names 1858:Category:Etymologies of geographic names 1803:Category:Etymologies of geographic names 940:Category:Aviation in the United Kingdom 599:Category:Albums produced by John Lennon 551:Category:Albums produced by John Lennon 1725:Category:The Hollywood Reporter people 1495:Category:The Hollywood Reporter people 1450:Category:The Hollywood Reporter people 736:-self-producing producer, as it were. 693:," so this isn't a duplicate, either. 99:as a grandparent; revisit if necessary 7: 1704:not likely to further populated. -- 1531:not likely to further populated. -- 828:Category:Self-produced albums by foo 1727:, which now contains 6 articles. -- 1398:analysis of situation is correct. 832:Category:Albums with vocals by Foo 140:and most African American topics. 28: 1923:No consensus to merge; rename to 1920:The result of the discussion was: 1801:No consensus to merge; rename to 1798:The result of the discussion was: 1647:The result of the discussion was: 1591:Category:American magazine people 1474:The result of the discussion was: 1023:The result of the discussion was: 901:The result of the discussion was: 575:The result of the discussion was: 84:The result of the discussion was: 801:I agree with Hmains, on this. -- 300:what about renaming this one to 1668:Category:The Hollywood Reporter 1623:Category:The Hollywood Reporter 502:as a shell category to contain 384: 333:The suggestion of categorizing 1824:Category:Placename etymologies 1774:Category:Placename etymologies 1: 1992:05:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC) 1938:13:02, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 1871:05:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC) 1816:13:02, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 1662:13:04, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 1489:13:03, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 919:13:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 848:12:05, 2 September 2011 (UTC) 776:As part of a larger scheme. — 593:13:05, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 526:18:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 472:13:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC) 453:05:18, 1 September 2011 (UTC) 111:18:39, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 30: 691:Category: John Lennon albums 640:Category: John Lennon albums 487:Rename the current category 437:Brown vs. Board of Education 1967:05:07, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1946:Category:Place name history 1896:Category:Place name history 1845:05:07, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1749:04:24, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 1737:19:59, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1714:06:31, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1598:22:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 1582:19:57, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1572:sort out those linkages. -- 1564:10:46, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1541:06:32, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1425:08:00, 28 August 2011 (UTC) 1408:03:15, 28 August 2011 (UTC) 1391:10:50, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1374:07:49, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1355:07:26, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 1038:09:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 974:12:11, 27 August 2011 (UTC) 951:11:33, 27 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Malaysia 1204:Category:1956 in Malaysia 1192:Category:1955 in Malaysia 1180:Category:1954 in Malaysia 1168:Category:1952 in Malaysia 1156:Category:1951 in Malaysia 1144:Category:1950 in Malaysia 1132:Category:1949 in Malaysia 1120:Category:1948 in Malaysia 1108:Category:1946 in Malaysia 1096:Category:1945 in Malaysia 1084:Category:1942 in Malaysia 1072:Category:1941 in Malaysia 1046:Category:1922 in Malaysia 927:Category:British Aviation 2003:Please do not modify it. 1906:Please do not modify it. 1882:Please do not modify it. 1784:Please do not modify it. 1760:Please do not modify it. 1633:Please do not modify it. 1609:Please do not modify it. 1460:Please do not modify it. 1436:Please do not modify it. 1316:Category:1950s in Malaya 1304:Category:1940s in Malaya 1292:Category:1920s in Malaya 1009:Please do not modify it. 985:Please do not modify it. 887:Please do not modify it. 863:Please do not modify it. 689:which doesn't belong in 561:Please do not modify it. 537:Please do not modify 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1557: 1553: 1549: 1546: 1545: 1542: 1538: 1534: 1533:Alan Liefting 1530: 1527: 1521: 1517: 1513: 1509: 1505: 1501: 1496: 1492: 1490: 1486: 1482: 1478: 1475: 1472: 1471: 1468: 1466: 1461: 1455: 1454: 1449: 1444: 1442: 1437: 1431: 1430: 1426: 1422: 1418: 1414: 1411: 1409: 1405: 1401: 1397: 1394: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1380: 1377: 1375: 1371: 1367: 1366:Alan Liefting 1363: 1360: 1359: 1356: 1352: 1348: 1344: 1340: 1336: 1332: 1329: 1326: 1325: 1317: 1313: 1310: 1307: 1305: 1301: 1298: 1295: 1293: 1289: 1286: 1283: 1281: 1277: 1274: 1271: 1269: 1265: 1262: 1259: 1257: 1253: 1250: 1247: 1245: 1241: 1238: 1235: 1233: 1229: 1226: 1223: 1221: 1217: 1214: 1211: 1209: 1205: 1202: 1199: 1197: 1193: 1190: 1187: 1185: 1181: 1178: 1175: 1173: 1169: 1166: 1163: 1161: 1157: 1154: 1151: 1149: 1145: 1142: 1139: 1137: 1133: 1130: 1127: 1125: 1121: 1118: 1115: 1113: 1109: 1106: 1103: 1101: 1097: 1094: 1091: 1089: 1085: 1082: 1079: 1077: 1073: 1070: 1067: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1058: 1057: 1051: 1047: 1044: 1041: 1039: 1035: 1031: 1027: 1024: 1021: 1020: 1017: 1015: 1010: 1004: 1003: 998: 993: 991: 986: 980: 979: 975: 971: 967: 963: 959: 956: 955: 952: 948: 944: 941: 937: 933: 930: 928: 925: 922: 920: 916: 912: 908: 907: 902: 899: 898: 895: 893: 888: 882: 881: 876: 871: 869: 864: 858: 857: 849: 845: 841: 837: 833: 829: 824: 820: 819: 818: 817: 816: 815: 812: 808: 804: 800: 797: 795: 791: 787: 783: 779: 775: 772: 771: 762: 758: 754: 749: 748: 747: 743: 739: 735: 731: 730: 729: 725: 721: 717: 713: 710: 709: 708: 707: 704: 700: 696: 692: 688: 687: 681: 678: 676: 672: 668: 664: 660: 657: 656: 653: 649: 645: 641: 637: 634: 631: 625: 621: 617: 613: 609: 605: 600: 596: 594: 590: 586: 582: 581: 576: 573: 572: 569: 567: 562: 556: 555: 550: 545: 543: 538: 532: 531: 527: 523: 519: 514: 510: 505: 501: 497: 494: 490: 486: 485: 484: 483: 479: 478: 473: 469: 465: 460: 459: 458: 457: 454: 450: 446: 442: 438: 434: 431: 430: 425: 421: 417: 412: 408: 404: 403: 402: 401: 400: 399: 394: 392: 387: 369: 366: 365: 364: 363: 359: 356: 355: 354: 353: 350: 347: 346: 345: 344: 342: 341: 336: 332: 329: 327: 323: 319: 315: 311: 307: 303: 299: 296: 295: 284: 280: 276: 272: 271: 270: 266: 262: 258: 253: 252: 251: 247: 243: 239: 235: 234: 233: 229: 225: 221: 217: 212: 208: 207: 206: 205: 202: 198: 194: 190: 186: 182: 178: 172: 171:edit conflict 167: 166: 163: 159: 155: 151: 147: 143: 139: 134: 129: 126: 124: 120: 117: 114: 112: 108: 104: 100: 98: 94: 90: 85: 82: 81: 78: 76: 71: 65: 64: 59: 54: 44: 41: 39: 33: 32: 23: 19: 2002: 1999: 1977: 1973: 1954: 1942: 1922: 1919: 1905: 1902: 1881: 1878: 1855: 1851: 1832: 1820: 1800: 1797: 1783: 1780: 1759: 1756: 1741: 1720: 1701: 1650:No consensus 1649: 1646: 1632: 1629: 1608: 1605: 1586: 1568: 1547: 1528: 1476: 1473: 1459: 1456: 1435: 1432: 1412: 1395: 1378: 1364:per nom. -- 1361: 1330: 1327: 1308: 1296: 1284: 1272: 1260: 1248: 1236: 1224: 1212: 1200: 1188: 1176: 1164: 1152: 1140: 1128: 1116: 1104: 1092: 1080: 1068: 1042: 1025: 1022: 1008: 1005: 984: 981: 957: 931: 923: 903: 900: 886: 883: 862: 859: 798: 773: 733: 711: 684: 679: 658: 635: 632: 577: 574: 560: 557: 536: 533: 432: 410: 406: 388: 381: 335:historically 334: 330: 313: 297: 180: 176: 133:Black school 127: 115: 86: 83: 69: 66: 1381:per nom. -- 1337:, becoming 821:Looks like 807:Talk to me! 1856:rename to 840:Richhoncho 753:Richhoncho 720:Richhoncho 644:Richhoncho 87:Rename to 1959:Mais oui! 1837:Mais oui! 1556:Mais oui! 1383:Mais oui! 904:Merge to 714:. But... 386:Freechild 257:Roscelese 236:Yes, the 189:Roscelese 91:; create 55:August 27 43:August 28 38:August 26 1417:WPSamson 1339:Malaysia 411:de facto 407:de facto 318:Robofish 265:contribs 197:contribs 131:article 20:‎ | 1742:Delete. 1681:history 1548:Comment 1508:history 1379:Support 1362:Support 943:Hugo999 823:WP:SNOW 712:Comment 612:history 580:WP:SNOW 331:Comment 298:Comment 1852:Oppose 1729:Orlady 1574:Orlady 1413:rename 1400:Hmains 1331:Rename 803:Yeepsi 667:Hmains 636:Delete 518:Orlady 464:Orlady 433:Delete 416:Orlady 275:Orlady 242:Hmains 224:Orlady 216:Orlady 181:rename 177:oppose 154:Orlady 142:Orlady 1974:Merge 1689:watch 1685:links 1516:watch 1512:links 1345:etc. 958:Merge 826:now; 620:watch 616:links 360:; and 46:: --> 16:< 1988:talk 1963:talk 1934:talk 1867:talk 1841:talk 1812:talk 1733:talk 1721:Keep 1712:) - 1710:talk 1693:logs 1677:talk 1673:edit 1658:talk 1587:Keep 1578:talk 1569:Keep 1560:talk 1539:) - 1537:talk 1520:logs 1504:talk 1500:edit 1485:talk 1477:Keep 1421:talk 1404:talk 1387:talk 1372:) - 1370:talk 1351:talk 1347:Tim! 1034:talk 970:talk 947:talk 915:talk 844:talk 799:Keep 774:Keep 757:talk 742:talk 724:talk 699:talk 680:Keep 671:talk 659:keep 648:talk 624:logs 608:talk 604:edit 589:talk 522:talk 468:talk 449:talk 420:talk 391:talk 322:talk 279:talk 261:talk 246:talk 228:talk 220:talk 193:talk 158:talk 146:talk 107:talk 35:< 1948:to 1826:to 1314:to 1302:to 1290:to 1278:to 1266:to 1254:to 1242:to 1230:to 1218:to 1206:to 1194:to 1182:to 1170:to 1158:to 1146:to 1134:to 1122:to 1110:to 1098:to 1086:to 1074:to 1048:to 960:to 938:or 734:non 491:to 314:all 183:to 121:to 22:Log 1990:) 1982:. 1965:) 1936:) 1928:. 1869:) 1843:) 1814:) 1806:. 1735:) 1691:| 1687:| 1683:| 1679:| 1675:| 1660:) 1652:. 1593:. 1580:) 1562:) 1518:| 1514:| 1510:| 1506:| 1502:| 1487:) 1479:. 1423:) 1406:) 1389:) 1353:) 1036:) 1028:. 972:) 949:) 917:) 909:. 846:) 834:, 830:, 809:) 792:☯ 759:) 744:) 726:) 701:) 673:) 650:) 622:| 618:| 614:| 610:| 606:| 591:) 583:. 524:) 516:-- 470:) 451:) 422:) 414:-- 324:) 281:) 267:) 263:⋅ 248:) 230:) 214:-- 199:) 195:⋅ 160:) 109:) 1986:( 1961:( 1932:( 1865:( 1839:( 1810:( 1731:( 1708:( 1695:) 1671:( 1656:( 1576:( 1558:( 1535:( 1522:) 1498:( 1483:( 1419:( 1402:( 1385:( 1368:( 1349:( 1032:( 968:( 945:( 913:( 842:( 805:( 790:M 788:☺ 786:C 784:☮ 782:T 780:❤ 755:( 740:( 722:( 697:( 669:( 646:( 626:) 602:( 587:( 520:( 466:( 447:( 418:( 370:. 320:( 277:( 259:( 244:( 226:( 218:( 191:( 173:) 169:( 156:( 144:( 105:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion
Log
August 26
August 28
deletion review
Category:Historically segregated African American schools in the United States
Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
Category:Segregated schools in the United States
Timrollpickering
talk
18:39, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Category:Segregated schools in the United States
Category:African American segregated schools in the United States
Black school
Category:Segregated schools
Orlady
talk
Category:School segregation in the United States
Orlady
talk
19:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
edit conflict
Category:Racially segregated schools in the United States
Roscelese
talk
contribs
19:57, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Category:Segregated schools in the United States
Orlady
talk

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