1051:
home, we would have to move all the awards currently in "British literary awards" to "English literary awards" for home of award, and then some sub-set of those would be in an additional category for
British scope, under the Regional literary awards. Since there would be so many articles, it would make sense to have a unique UK region category, like we already have for Scandinavia, Commonwealth, Caribbean etc. I don't know how big the overlap really is. Probably it would need to be called "Literary awards with a United Kingdom eligibility" or something to avoid confusion with where it is based.
861:-- The criterion should not be where the awarding body is based, but what residnetial or otehr criterion for winning there may be. If the prize is limited to people living in England, it is clearly an English award, but if it is open to any one in GB (or UK) it is clearly a British award. Nationalist sentiment is strong in Scotland and Northern Ireland and has generated such manifestations as SCottish and Welsh awards; it has been less strong in England. though I suspect there may be a backlash is the other home antions try to dominate the English.
704:
which category to look under - one ends up with a fairly arbitrary (and arguable) split with some awards under the
British category, and others under the English category (and many people outside the UK don't know the difference between "England" and "UK"). Readers shouldn't need to care if an award is incorporated as a UK vs England entity when they are physically headquartered in the same place. The UK is a more encompassing/common entity thus it makes sense to make it the default for all awards in England. --
1239:. Whatever the substantive merits or demerits of this proposal, it is very misleading for the nominator to present signed comments by other editors as if they had been posted in this discussion. All of them were in fact posted elsewhere, and the presentation here misleads other editors about the context in which those comments were made. The use of my own sig in a quote in the first paragraph gives the misleading impression that I was the nominator here, whereas the nomination was posted
721:(i.e. do not merge) and populate with awards issued by people or organisations based in England, which is a simple and objective test. I agree with the author that literary awards may be restricted in many different ways, so any attempt to define a "British" award would be a nightmare. So it's much better to just categorise awards by the location of the awarding body, which in some (many?) cases will be an NGO or a company. They are already categorised by location, under
782:? What about the genre awards for Scotland, Wales, create new cats for them? This creates fragmentation for a small number of articles. There would be no encompassing British view of things. I understand the logic of "based in", but with awards, most of them fall within the scope of the UK in terms of where they draw winners from, most of them are thought of as being UK awards. In fact I don't know of
986:. It would be possible for award to be in two categories, one for home of award (England) and the other for scope (UK). Assuming the British category were moved to the Region parent cat, and out of the its current Country parent cat (which makes logical sense since the UK is not a country). However, I think this scheme would be complex and not intuitive. But, we are already doing it for
1138:, and many others where the adjective has the three meanings listed above ... and even where the country name does not indicate a language, there is still ambiguity between points 1 and 3. We should get a comprehensive solution to the ambiguity in a separate discussion, and leave this discussion to focus on whether to merge these two geographical categories. --
879:"Nationalist sentiment" as you put it, is also strong in England, but manifests differently. Mostly in the conflation of Britain and England. Many of the Scottish and Welsh awards are available to people elsewhere. The main reason these exist, is because the Scots and the Welsh are fairly marginalised/peripheral within British media contexts.--
1161:
Columbia culture". There are categories for language eligibility. Keep in mind there are not many literary awards articles on
Knowledge (XXG) (a few thousand) so we don't need to go overboard on category creation because it would fragment things I believe and be counter-productive to the point of categorizing. --
731:
This also follows the common practice in categorisation, whereby categories relating to the United
Kingdom are sub-categorised under England/Scotland/Wales/N.Ireland. I would prefer to use the noun form of the country rather than the ambiguous (and sometimes non-neutral) adjectives, so that the scope
1264:
I am sure that this was a good faith misunderstanding by the nominator, but it is better to close the discussion immediately rather than have it marred by an procedural wrangle. The nominator (or any other editor) should feel free to start a new nomination which is formatted in the conventional way,
896:
Your idea of categorising the wards by their geographical elegibility is an interesting one, but it would require a radical restructuring of all similar categories. It would also remove from both the
British and English categories a large number of the awards currently contained there, because many
786:
England-only awards (there might be some, I've gone through every article and never saw one). Until/if the categories are renamed to "Literary awards based in..", we should keep all the awards based in
England in one category, and British makes the most sense since most of them are British in terms
1260:
Where editors wish to quote other editors, they should do so in such a way as to make sure that it is abundantly clear that they are being quoted. For example, they should not include the personal sigs of those editors, and should preferably include a diff of where the comment was made so that the
703:
would be empty (the UK is not a country). However many of the awards based in
England are by UK institutions and/or for UK authors, though for many also it is uncertain. It's quite confusing and unclear when you start looking at the awards individually. It's also confusing for readers to determine
1050:
As for scope of eligibility, I think you confused what I was saying. We currently don't delineate the UK awards by scope. The "British literary awards" is an ambiguous catch-all, it "could" mean scope (but not necessarily), but definitely home of award. If OTOH we wanted to have precise scope and
698:
as child cats of
Category:British literary awards. Presumably, it makes logical sense for Scotland and Wales. However, England and the UK is a unique situation because it is an overlapping sovereign state and 90% of more of the literary awards in England are either by UK institutions or for UK
1160:
Geographical eligibility at this point is only done for awards with a inter-country scope (Scandinavia, Caribbean). We don't do intra-country eligibility. For small region awards, like
British Columbia writer awards, the awards is categorized under "Canada literary awards", and under "British
1008:
Categorising awards by scope of eligibility would be a complex exercise, because as I note above, many of the awards which you want to label as "British" have a scope which extends beyond the UK. Unless we are going to create categories for every perumutation of eligibility, they should be in
1311:"it seems to me that the most persuasive argument was that to adopt the format of the other sub-categories of Category:Opposition to religion, which is "Anti-Foo"." Please note that since there is no consensus for this particular name, editors should free to immediately nominate
218:. Unnecessary level of bureaucracy. The function of checking image usage is done elsewhere and there is no need to have it done in relation to replacing placeholder images. Note that placeholders, particular for biographical articles, have been deprecated. The only subcategory
699:
authors; or don't say if they are specific to
England or the UK or the Commonwealth. It is uncertain, redundant and arguable which category to place an award, England or UK. If one believes categories are strictly for the award's host country, than
1080:- I think this should be kept, as there are umpteen categories related to the English and England. However, I do think that "English" here is ambiguous, since it could refer to either English language or something to do with England.--
659:. Too indiscriminate. British/UK topics are not organized by country of origin (the UK is not a country) and it's difficult to determine if an award should be UK or England, and confusing for readers (detail in comment below). --
1004:
The UK is a country; it just happens to be an unusual country which consists of 4 constituent countries. The British category should remain where it is, categorised alongside other countries as we do with all other by-country
1119:
McRusgail is right that "English literary awards" is ambiguous. However, it doesn't just have two possible meanings. There are three: 1) country from which the award is issued; 2) language of the literature; 3) geographical
762:" - All the Scotland, Wales and Ireland articles are already separate. The only ones left are the ones in England. What you're proposing is that there be no articles in the British category, because every award there
245:. It seems odd to delete this category but keep the subcategory, and on that basis, I'd oppose the nomination. However, the nom's rationale makes sense, so I'd support it if the sub-cat was added to this nom. --
322:. Either delete both this categ and its subcat, or keep both. I don't think either of the categories serves any useful purpose, lo I'll happily change my !vote if the subcat is added to this nomination. --
1717:
732:
of the categories would be readily apparent from a title along the lines of "Literary awards based in England/Scotland/Wales/N.Ireland/UK", but that would require a wider discussion on renaming. --
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of them do not restrict their eligibility to either people from Great Britain or those from the UK. The list of those which would not fit your definition is huge, and includes:
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which have a lot of articles and currently don't overlap with the main category. If we moved everything into England, would we change the name to
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Per my reply below to Peter, a large number of the awards which you claim have a UK scope for eligibility actually have a wider scope. --
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Peter, I think that the discussion would go better if it avoided being sidetracked from literary matters into opining about nationalism.
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So we do need a renaming to resolve this triple ambiguity, but I would prefer that it was done consistently across all the sub-cats of
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374:. Per comments above, they should both be deleted, so I am chnaging my !vote now that both are deleted. --
1890:. Seems uncontroversial. The "Works based on" also helps by keeping them together in alphabetical order.
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I want the sub-cat deleted as well. It is of even less use - and of no use if its parent is deleted. --
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1047:. These are technical terms though and probably too specific to worry about for Category purposes.
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have subcategories in the format of "Works based on (X)." These are outliers from that format.--
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have subcategories in the format of "Works based on (X)." This is an outlier from that format.--
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
1413:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
1248:
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Right we don't know what the overlap would be. More below (you actually replied to me below).
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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for renaming, whether on its own or as part of a wider group nomination to include
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion/Log/2012 September 4#Category:Anti-Islam
348:
I thought my nomination suggested that the subcat should also go. Now added at
811:. There is nothing unusual about this; it apples to many other UK categories.
1348:
1561:
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
1213:
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
553:
as the based in is the prefered form for the companies by state categories.
428:
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
67:
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories.
1347:"These two categories are impossible to distuinguish from one another" __
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Category:Television programs based on The Legend of Sword and Fairy
1365:
and you'll find all the sub-categories starting with "anti"."
1718:
Category:Works based on Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio
1714:
Category:Adaptations of Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio
1265:
and which takes care to indicate the source of any quotes. --
1849:
Category:Television adaptations of Legend of Sword and Fairy
289:
So add it to the nomination, and you'll have my support. --
678:(by nom). As background, prior to July 2011, there was no
1910:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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Category:Works based on The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber
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Category:Adaptations of The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber
1533:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
571:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
500:
Category:Book publishing companies based in Massachusetts
400:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.
220:
Category:Reviewed images of people replacing placeholders
150:
Category:Reviewed images of people replacing placeholders
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Category:Works based on The Return of the Condor Heroes
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Category:Adaptations of The Return of the Condor Heroes
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Category:Works based on The Legend of the Condor Heroes
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Category:Adaptations of The Legend of the Condor Heroes
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Category:Works based on Sword Stained with Royal Blood
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Category:Adaptations of Sword Stained with Royal Blood
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Category:Book publishing companies based in California
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Category:Works based on The Legend of the White Snake
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Category:Works based on The Legend of Sword and Fairy
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Category:Works based on Xiaoli Feidao (novel series)
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Category:Adaptations of Xiaoli Feidao (novel series)
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Category:Works based on Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain
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Category:Adaptations of Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain
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Category:Book publishing companies based in Virginia
1924:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Television programs based on Xuanyuan Jian
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Category:Works based on The Smiling, Proud Wanderer
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Category:Adaptations of The Smiling, Proud Wanderer
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Category:Works based on Chu Liuxiang (novel series)
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Category:Adaptations of Chu Liuxiang (novel series)
1575:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:British science fiction and fantasy awards
613:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Book publishing companies of Massachusetts
442:). No further edits should be made to this section.
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1700:Category:Works based on Lu Xiaofeng (novel series)
1696:Category:Adaptations of Lu Xiaofeng (novel series)
488:Category:Book publishing companies based in Oregon
1763:Category:Works based on The Deer and the Cauldron
1759:Category:Adaptations of The Deer and the Cauldron
1687:Category:Adaptations of Legend of the White Snake
1678:Category:Adaptations of Legend of Sword and Fairy
1655:Category:Works based on Demi-Gods and Semi-Devils
1651:Category:Adaptations of Demi-Gods and Semi-Devils
982:Note: We do categorize some awards on scope, see
960:Are you sure that is what you want to achieve? --
1840:Category:Television adaptations of Xuanyuan Jian
115:Category:Images of people replacing placeholders
60:Category:Images of people replacing placeholders
1736:Category:Works based on The Book and the Sword
1732:Category:Adaptations of The Book and the Sword
729:, so the award categorisation can follow suit.
472:Category:Book publishing companies of Virginia
1745:Category:Works based on The Carnal Prayer Mat
1741:Category:Adaptations of the Carnal Prayer Mat
1096:Category:Literary awards of England (country)
955:Boardman Tasker Prize for Mountain Literature
8:
484:Category:Book publishing companies of Oregon
1750:Category:Adaptations of the Condor Triology
780:Category:English children's literary awards
768:Category:British children's literary awards
1754:Category:Works based on the Condor Trilogy
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1673:Category:Works based on Juedai Shuangjiao
1669:Category:Adaptations of Juedai Shuangjiao
18:Knowledge (XXG):Categories for discussion
1709:Category:Works based on Ode to Gallantry
1705:Category:Adaptations of Ode to Gallantry
1637:Category:Works based on Baifa Monü Zhuan
1633:Category:Adaptations of Baifa Monü Zhuan
1628:Category:Works based on A Deadly Secret
1624:Category:Adaptations of A Deadly Secret
1483:Category:Works based on The Magic Flute
1479:Category:Adaptations of The Magic Flute
1428:Category:Adaptations of The Magic Flute
723:Category:Organisations based in England
1835:Category:Works based on Yang Jia Jiang
1831:Category:Adaptations of Yang Jia Jiang
1011:Category:International literary awards
923:Christopher Ewart-Biggs Memorial Prize
682:, all British awards were filed under
1826:Category:Works based on Xuanyuan Jian
1822:Category:Adaptations of Xuanyuan Jian
1808:Category:Works based on Tian Xian Pei
1804:Category:Adaptations of Tian Xian Pei
988:Category:Commonwealth literary awards
766:. There is also the consideration of
7:
758:" issued by people or organisations
1124:Category:Literary awards by country
727:Category:Companies based in England
1871:Category:Works based on literature
1494:Category:Works based on literature
984:Category:Literary awards by region
186:to keep discussion in one place --
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1582:The result of the discussion was:
1554:Adaptations of Chinese literature
1456:The result of the discussion was:
1234:The result of the discussion was:
1039:is not labeled a country, it's a
692:Category:Scottish literary awards
620:The result of the discussion was:
449:The result of the discussion was:
88:The result of the discussion was:
1136:Category:Spanish literary awards
701:Category:British literary awards
688:Category:English literary awards
684:Category:British literary awards
680:Category:English literary awards
647:Category:British literary awards
643:Category:English literary awards
592:Category:English literary awards
1363:Category:Opposition to religion
1132:Category:German literary awards
1128:Category:French literary awards
1126:. Similar ambiguities apply to
1900:18:03, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
1883:04:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
1607:Chinese literature adaptations
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1523:18:00, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
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1341:16:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
1289:Per the precedence stated at
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772:Category:British poetry awards
750:09:36, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
714:05:30, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
696:Category:Welsh literary awards
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563:01:08, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
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1:
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927:Thomas Cook Travel Book Award
907:Geoffrey Faber Memorial Prize
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1869:Nearly all subcategories of
1492:Nearly all subcategories of
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103:18:55, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
1385:it needs to start somewhere
787:of the scope of the award.
764:is already based in England
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1317:Category:Anti-Christianity
859:Define properly then Purge
1513:. Seems uncontroversial.
1035:As far as I can tell the
935:Rossica Translation Prize
903:Guardian First Book Award
421:Book publishing companies
1913:Please do not modify it.
1564:Please do not modify it.
1536:Please do not modify it.
1438:Please do not modify it.
1410:Please do not modify it.
1216:Please do not modify it.
1188:Please do not modify it.
943:Rose Mary Crawshay Prize
602:Please do not modify it.
574:Please do not modify it.
431:Please do not modify it.
403:Please do not modify it.
70:Please do not modify it.
1261:quotes can be verified.
690:was created along with
222:is of the same ilk. --
1867:Nominator's rationale:
1490:Nominator's rationale:
1309:Nominator's rationale:
911:Best science book ever
654:Nominator's rationale:
507:Nominator's rationale:
213:Nominator's rationale:
1379:"Those others really
1321:Category:Anti-Judaism
1302:Category:Anti-Judaism
1298:Category:Antisemitism
1206:Category:Antisemitism
951:Bread and Roses Award
509:Per convention, i.e.
931:Samuel Johnson Prize
1313:Category:Anti-Islam
1045:constituent country
947:John Whiting Award
806:container category
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1585:Speedy rename C2C
1459:Speedy rename C2C
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555:John Pack Lambert
452:Speedy rename C2C
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456:Timrollpickering
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108:Propose deleting
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1120:eligibility.
1106:86.40.96.102
1100:— Preceding
1077:
915:The Big Read
858:
783:
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532:per nom. --
529:
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427:
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371:
345:
344:
319:Keep for now
318:
317:
242:
215:
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182:(moved from
107:
90:
87:
69:
66:
55:September 23
43:September 24
38:September 22
1005:categories.
686:. In 2011,
372:Delete both
184:CfD Sept 27
1328:HairedGirl
1270:HairedGirl
1143:HairedGirl
1094:How about
1082:MacRusgail
1018:HairedGirl
965:HairedGirl
881:MacRusgail
819:HairedGirl
737:HairedGirl
379:HairedGirl
327:HairedGirl
294:HairedGirl
250:HairedGirl
191:HairedGirl
1918:talk page
1569:talk page
1541:talk page
1443:talk page
1415:talk page
1361:"Look at
1221:talk page
1193:talk page
607:talk page
579:talk page
436:talk page
408:talk page
75:talk page
1920:or in a
1571:or in a
1543:or in a
1445:or in a
1417:or in a
1336:contribs
1278:contribs
1255:contribs
1223:or in a
1195:or in a
1151:contribs
1102:unsigned
1026:contribs
973:contribs
827:contribs
745:contribs
609:or in a
581:or in a
542:contribs
438:or in a
410:or in a
387:contribs
362:contribs
335:contribs
302:contribs
281:contribs
258:contribs
232:contribs
199:contribs
77:or in a
20: |
1888:Support
1511:Support
1323:etc. --
1245:Liftarn
1078:Comment
676:Comment
513:, etc.
346:Comment
243:Comment
163:history
128:history
91:delete.
1387:." -
1381:should
1332:(talk)
1274:(talk)
1147:(talk)
1022:(talk)
969:(talk)
823:(talk)
741:(talk)
694:&
551:Rename
530:Rename
383:(talk)
331:(talk)
298:(talk)
254:(talk)
216:Delete
195:(talk)
1326:Brown
1295:merge
1268:Brown
1141:Brown
1016:Brown
963:Brown
817:Brown
735:Brown
657:Merge
623:keep.
377:Brown
352:. --
325:Brown
292:Brown
248:Brown
189:Brown
171:watch
167:links
136:watch
132:links
46:: -->
16:<
1896:talk
1879:talk
1593:talk
1519:talk
1502:talk
1467:talk
1371:talk
1353:talk
1349:meco
1249:talk
1167:talk
1110:talk
1086:talk
1057:talk
1013:. --
996:talk
885:talk
867:talk
842:talk
793:talk
774:and
719:Keep
710:talk
665:talk
631:talk
559:talk
538:talk
519:talk
460:talk
358:talk
277:talk
228:talk
175:logs
159:talk
155:edit
140:logs
124:talk
120:edit
99:talk
35:<
1851:to
1842:to
1833:to
1824:to
1815:to
1806:to
1797:to
1788:to
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1770:to
1761:to
1752:to
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1725:to
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1662:to
1653:to
1644:to
1635:to
1626:to
1481:to
1334:• (
1319:,
1300:to
1276:• (
1243:by
1149:• (
1098:?
1024:• (
971:• (
825:• (
784:any
743:• (
725:or
645:to
498:to
486:to
474:to
385:• (
333:• (
300:• (
256:• (
197:• (
22:Log
1898:)
1881:)
1595:)
1587:.
1521:)
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1257:).
1169:)
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1088:)
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998:)
953:,
949:,
945:,
941:,
937:,
933:,
929:,
925:,
921:,
917:,
913:,
909:,
905:,
901:,
887:)
869:)
844:)
809:}}
803:{{
795:)
770:,
712:)
667:)
633:)
625:--
561:)
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540:-
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360:-
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230:-
173:|
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122:|
110::
101:)
93:--
1894:(
1877:(
1620::
1591:(
1517:(
1500:(
1465:(
1369:(
1351:(
1338:)
1280:)
1252:·
1247:(
1165:(
1153:)
1108:(
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1055:(
1028:)
994:(
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957:.
883:(
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840:(
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791:(
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517:(
458:(
389:)
356:(
337:)
304:)
275:(
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226:(
206:)
201:)
177:)
153:(
142:)
118:(
97:(
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