317:, nor does it appear to be in line with the guidance there that speedy deletions be done only "in the most obvious cases". In this case, the application appears to be in contravention to the spirit of G4, which is to prevent the community from having to go through the exact same discussion over the (more or less) exact same page. As I read it, the criterion is supposed to preclude re-creation of the
186:. I've brought this up with the deleting admin DGG, who moved an unrelated draft over the deleted article and reverted it back to draft, without restoring the article in question. It's been over ten days since the deletion, and seeing as it currently seems inconvenient for him to divert attention to the issue, I've informed him that I'm bringing this to DRV instead.
357:
417:
When Paul asked me about this, I suggested Draft:Miss Grand as a suitable way to start dealing with this material. As he wasn't satisfied, and as I have not yet figured out anything better, he brought this here. I don't think the history of the decisions matter--the goal is to find a way towards an
549:
someone is working around a SALTed title to put a new article in place. Experienced
Wikipedians will tend to ask for an un-SALTing, while both inexperienced Wikipedians and sockpuppets/SPAs will not. Experienced admins do tend to jump to G4 a bit too hastily, and I suspect for relatively benign ABF
343:
Regarding the specific suggestions, I don't currently plan to further work on the subject, and personally, I do not see the value of taking this through AfC, placing the burden on a single reviewer to weigh the status of an article against the spirit of the arguments from previous discussions. A new
298:
Another important consideration is that the topic and sources are a foreign language. Personally I would want, and I recommend, linking to an already existing native language
Knowledge article. If an en deleted topic is not notable in its native language, there is a heavy presumption against it.
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the new one. Or maybe I'm confused? G4 seems utterly inappropriate: the content is completely different and the references are (completely?) different. Even the topic is somewhat different: a national event where the old article was about a strongly associated international event. SmokeyJoe's
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I don't recall implying that the template was actively being used by CheckUsers. I think I made it clear that it was intended for use by CheckUsers, and added it to a list with all the other templates. If its association with SPI pages is a problem, it could have a name such as
975:. DRV is not competent to understand template hoax humour, and nothing productive will come from trying. This looks like a waste of time even without trying to understand what it is about. "Eject was ejected." Is that funny? Is that remotely useful? I suspect
1200:
but allow draftifying if desired. The XfD was properly closed and no sources are presented here, so restoring straight to mainspace is not going to happen but if someone wants to work on improving it in draftspace then I don't see a reason not to allow that.
930:. Was this template useful? unlikely. Was it a blatant hoax? not even close. Blatant hoaxes are pages that actively, intentionally and unequivocally mislead about the subject, a template that says "(user) was ejected" is no more or less misleading than
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I think that what SmokeyJoe observes is true, but question whether it should be. In theory, every G4 should be considered independently, and the SALTing of a target should not play into such a decision. In practice, it's hard to distinguish
271:
considering greater G4 leeway when the AfD was closed with a consensus of "delete. And WP:SALT". It is not the same page, and the author may justifiably feel aggrieved, but "repeatedly recreated" applies. Note also the existence of
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The AfD is almost a year old. The subject is active and could well now be notable. If the comedian is "definitely notable", one should be definitely about to demonstrate this with two or three suitable sourced. Read the advice at
786:
I think I phrased this poorly. While templates are not inherently immune to G3, what I meant was that the page was not informational and is not really possible for it to be a hoax. It can't even form a complete sentence without user
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325:. If it is standard practice to regard creation protection as making related pages eligible for CSD, this should be added as its own different criterion. (I notice that something along these lines has recently been proposed at
183:
181:
Article was improperly tagged and deleted as G4, even though it was entirely newly created and can't have borne any resemblance to an article, about a different subject, which had been deleted in 2017 following
509:
This is why I come back to these discussions. My first reading was confused on a few things, including what exactly was G4-ed. That said, I do think G4 has more leeway when there was a consensus to SALT.
389:. "greater G4 leeway" isn't mentioned anywhere? That's because I only just made it up. There are many AfDs, many recreations, an explicit consensus to SALT, and the latest recreation looked like a
393:
attempt at avoiding the SALT by using a different title. It is also a confusing mess to have multiple versions. Anyway, from you answer, it seems to me that you are sensible, and I think we should
529:
371:, one of the salting admins (but not the AfD closer, who is no longer active), of the page's creation, and requested re-creating the salted title as a redirect, which they did not object to. --
899:
Jokes are not speedy deletable unless they are pure vandalism (clearly not the case here) or a blatant hoax (see below). Looking like a CU template is not a reason for speedy deletion either.
1148:
397:
the G4 deletion and let you fix everything up as you see fit. Redirect the lower quality copies to the best version in mainspace, and explicitly link to the Thai version. --
727:. The page was not informational and is subsequently not a hoax. Can be sent to TFD if necessary but not a valid use of CSD (page is both a template and not a hoax).
881:"This person is an imposter", and giving reference to a very popular game (arguably a meme at this point) in my mind is most definitely a joke, especially since it
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34:
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a clerk noticed it and questioned why it was created. I have no issue restoring to your proposed name, but it should not have a CU-related redirect.
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Accusing another editor of both sockpuppetry and bot editing at the same time, because you do not like a template they created, is quite simply
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However, there must be a way to try again after more than a year to challenge the old AfD decision. I suggest: (1) the patrolling admin
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of this template implied that it was used by
Checkusers at SPI, which is incredibly far from "not a hoax"; this is a direct reference to
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has since separately been created, and I wouldn't object to an eventual merge somehow, if it is to be retained). Note also that I had
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78:- There's a complicated history here a bit, so if I muck up what should be (un)deleted, it's an honest error, ask me to fix it.
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imply that CUs use it, but as it was it was not acceptable. For the record, G3 applies to pages in
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to be deleted at AFD in spite of many attempts, it is salted when at last a deletion is successful.
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and is not actually used by the CU team. I have no issue with it being restored to a title that
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Comedian is definitely notable now, having been on numerous TV panel shows since the deletion.
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of what was last deleted by AFD. So what is in draft is a bit like the old deleted article and
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speedy. We are discussing the article currently temporarily undeleted which was speedied as
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reasons--that is, assuming sockpuppetry rather than inexperience. Regardless, in this case
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refer any G4-eligible page to AfD instead. Note that he did not. (2) Use
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Miss Grand
International (3rd nomination)
575:
If overturned, please also restore the talk page and the redirect from
1062:– Deletion endorsed with leave to recreate; request draftification at
445:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Miss_Grand&oldid=997876075
295:. Any discovered forks should be fixed by redirection, not deletion.
291:
to enable timely efficient review. For further work on this, go to
252:, undelete all and ask Paul 012 to see if he can fix the mess. --
229:- okay, I'll temp restore that too, so people can judge G4-ness.
276:. I do not read the re-creations as overcoming the AfD decision.
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Not a "blatant hoax". This should have been at most tagged with
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is superior, although in Thai. I suggest working from that. --
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for blocking attempts at improving the broken documentation at
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and at least done nothing in line with other things such as
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is all non-independent, and useless for moving forward with.
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This is not a CU template, and the reason I deleted it was
344:
AfD would be preferable. Thai
Knowledge articles exist for
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and send to whatever other process, if any, is desired.
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Thank you. Just to note that sometimes when an article
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329:, with some editors voicing concerns over the idea.) --
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or any other of the result templates used by CUs are.
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This "greater G4 leeway" isn't mentioned anywhere at
1269:and allow draft/re-creation per the above advice.
928:Overturn, send to TfD and trout the deleting admin
824:Repinging since I misspelled your name last time.
803:should still redirect there. Is that sound good?
758:namespaces, so being a template means little.
784:namespaces, so being a template means little.
8:
1177:third party sources from quality publishers
1175:You'd really need to find and present some
1085:The following is an archived debate of the
644:The following is an archived debate of the
106:The following is an archived debate of the
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478:which looks to me somewhat similar to the
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863:that is not a speedy deletion reason. It
231:EITHER WAY, DELETE THAT WHEN THIS IS DONE
487:arguments might be highly persuasive at
1220:. This does not belong at DRV. Blame
780:For the record, G3 applies to pages in
204:- the new article is in the history of
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579:(the version created 31 December 2020
7:
474:. This is completely different from
1309:of the page listed in the heading.
1040:of the page listed in the heading.
605:of the page listed in the heading.
418:article if an article is possible.
28:
1226:Knowledge:Deletion review/Purpose
225:Wait, no, the old version is at
1305:The above is an archive of the
1036:The above is an archive of the
601:The above is an archive of the
493:WT:Criteria for speedy deletion
995:WP:Bot_policy#Bot-like_editing
954:Template has been restored to
1:
1181:our usual inclusion criterion
87:08:53, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
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1279:04:52, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
1260:05:40, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
1211:19:24, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
1193:12:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
1179:to demonstrate he now meets
1170:04:09, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
1076:14:41, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
1025:10:43, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
1007:05:32, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
968:02:27, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
950:19:19, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
909:02:22, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
895:02:06, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
877:00:33, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
852:22:58, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
834:18:35, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
813:18:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
768:11:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
737:09:00, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
635:10:43, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
592:11:03, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
564:04:32, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
540:10:57, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
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505:09:37, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
457:06:54, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
430:06:21, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
407:10:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
381:09:50, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
358:th:มิสแกรนด์อินเตอร์เนชันแนล
339:09:50, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
309:05:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
262:10:21, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
242:12:46, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
221:12:42, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
196:09:52, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
97:08:53, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
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1183:to make much headway, eh?
434:The sourcing currently at
321:, not act as a ban on the
1242:. Start by requesting a
287:, and consider advice at
208:, the deleted version at
18:Knowledge:Deletion review
1312:Please do not modify it.
1092:Please do not modify it.
1043:Please do not modify it.
651:Please do not modify it.
608:Please do not modify it.
577:Miss Grand International
489:WP:Village pump (policy)
354:Miss Grand International
227:Miss_Grand_International
113:Please do not modify it.
40:Deletion review archives
1248:Mark Simmons (comedian)
1103:Mark Simmons (comedian)
1059:Mark Simmons (comedian)
202:Temp undeleted for DRV
989:) of violation both
885:like a CU template.
350:th:มิสแกรนด์ไทยแลนด์
76:Overturn G4 deletion
1089:of the page above.
648:of the page above.
362:Miss Grand Thailand
346:Miss Grand Thailand
110:of the page above.
1286:As per all above.
1222:User:SportingFlyer
1013:assuming bad faith
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44:2021 January
391:Whac-A-Mole
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369:Black Kite
206:Miss Grand
124:Miss Grand
71:Miss Grand
1252:SmokeyJoe
1244:WP:REFUND
1203:Thryduulf
1064:WP:REFUND
999:SmokeyJoe
942:Thryduulf
935:confirmed
901:Thryduulf
869:Thryduulf
775:Primeface
512:SmokeyJoe
449:SmokeyJoe
399:SmokeyJoe
301:SmokeyJoe
254:SmokeyJoe
1271:Jclemens
1238:and use
1236:WP:THREE
1167:TomJ1991
1017:Naleksuh
987:contribs
977:Naleksuh
960:Primefac
887:Primefac
859:Primefac
844:Primefac
826:Naleksuh
820:Primefac
805:Naleksuh
760:Primefac
748:Among Us
729:Naleksuh
627:Naleksuh
584:Paul_012
573:Comment:
556:Jclemens
464:Overturn
395:overturn
387:Paul_012
373:Paul_012
366:notified
331:Paul_012
289:WP:THREE
250:Overturn
188:Paul_012
20: |
1288:Setreis
1284:Endorse
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1218:Endorse
1198:Endorse
1158:restore
1122:history
991:WP:SOCK
840:because
752:doesn't
711:restore
681:history
532:Thincat
497:Thincat
323:subject
319:content
269:Endorse
173:restore
143:history
1240:WP:AfC
1068:Stifle
883:looked
787:input.
352:) and
327:WT:CSD
315:WP:CSD
285:WP:AfC
1250:. --
1144:watch
1137:links
997:. --
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526:fails
426:talk
165:watch
158:links
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756:all
547:why
484:not
421:DGG
385:Hi
281:may
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