508:: "Although women were not generally afforded the advantages of a school education and did not compete with men for posts in the bureaucracy, there were certain positions that were genuinely female, such as priestesses, chantresses, and personnel surrounding the position of Divine Votaress of Amon during the New Kingdom. Although women did not officially compete with men, they were occasionally accorded considerable authority, especially to act on behalf of their husbands (Janssen 1986). Such letters as Nos. 24, 139, 289-91, 303, 311, 315, 319, 321, 324, 336, and 339 provide evidence for women functioning with varying degrees of authority, and certainly some of these women were literate. Occasionally there are references to a woman's writing a letter (Nos. 104, 124, 270, 282, and 297), but one must be cautious in concluding that a woman actually penned the document. Letter No. 124, if my restoration of the passage is correct, provides evidence for a female recipient reading a letter visually (the verb is 'look at,' the same as the one mentioned above in connection with No. 330). Regarding the women of Deir el-Medina, Janssen (1987:167 n. 25) considers it probable that the letters on ostraca sent by women were actually inscribed by them."
1529:- Well, PoA does it again. The research, the prose, the extensive cites, the numerous refs from major scholars... it's incredible how most of this was done by a single person. PoA, sometimes I wonder if you have more than one head. Anyway, fantastic work. One thing though: is it not appropriate to have the Ancient Egyptian names for the pieces of literature mentioned in the article? Like, in parentheses the first time it appears in the article? ~
315:. In no way, shape, or form was I trying to disparage the visually impaired. When I said "problem solved," I meant essentially "the problem of not having alt text is fixed and we can move on to reviewing the article". I don't know how you interpreted that as meaning the visually impaired are a "problem". Lol! Please, grab a beer, a chill pill, or take
765:"The creation of literature was thus an elite exercise, monopolized by a scribal class attached to government offices and the royal court of the ruling pharaoh. However, there is no full consensus among modern scholars concerning the dependence of ancient Egyptian literature on the sociopolitical order."
1602:
I think the article is a bit overlinked, meaning that the valuable links are diluted by more unnecessary ones. In the lead alone, consider delinking words such as "genre", "author" (piped in "authorship"), "graffiti", "hymn", "poem", and maybe even "Nile" (which is probably one of the most well-known
1140:
I have fixed all of these according to your suggestion, except for hermeneutics. I can't think of a good way to reword that sentence in order to include a brief definition of what hermeneutics is. Every rewording option I've thought of simply breaks the natural flow of the sentence and sounds choppy.
442:
I also just tweaked with the introduction to include all literature in the
Egyptian language from the pharaonic period until the end of Roman domination over Egypt, which roughly coincides with the invention of the Coptic alphabet and conversion to Coptic Christianity. This tweak makes absolute sense
231:
Oh; ok. I was under the assumption that you were just talking about captions, because I literally have been here since 2007 and have more than ten
Featured articles under my belt, yet have never come across this problem before (or rather, no one bothered to mention Alt Text). Does this mean I have to
1409:
As for
Heratic script limestone.jpg, I tagged that for deletion myself, so it should be deleted eventually. That's not really a pressing issue though, I don't believe. I checked the image that you replaced, and it looks great. Striking my oppose; great job. (And thank you for the remark regarding my
1205:
Greatly improved. I think that deals with most points. I still don't like "canonized" but I can't think of a word or words that explains things better. As for the very last sentence: "Scholars are increasingly following a hermeneutic approach to studying individual literary works, which can be used
466:
also can "there are some works that are thought to have been penned by women. For example, several references to women writing letters and actual surviving private letters sent or received by women have been found" be rephrased slightly. Either letters sent by women have been found or only letters
1549:
That's another excellent question! First of all, thanks for the support! And the very kind words you have to say about my articles. At first I wanted to include the ancient
Egyptian pronunciations for these literary works, but I realized that I was unable to find them all! Also, I think it might
1008:
I don't think you fully understand this. Yes, literature tended to be monopolized by the scribal class, but a distinction should be made between the scribal class and their relationship to the pharaoh's court, the latter which embodies the "sociopolitical order", not the scribal class as a whole
398:
The article begins "Ancient
Egyptian literature refers to literature written in the Egyptian language during Ancient Egypt's pharaonic period,". Which would leave out the Coptic Ptolomaic and Roman eras. Whilst later it says "The final script adopted by the Egyptians was the Coptic alphabet, a
1210:
Scholars are increasingly using a multifaceted hermeneutic approach to the study of individual literary works, in which not only the style and content, but also the cultural, social and historical context of the work are taken into account. Individual works can then be used as case studies to
130:
and as far as I know meets all FA mandatory criteria, is well-cited and has many reliable sources (in fact, I've cited most of the big-name authorities on
Egyptian literature: Erman, Breasted, Parkinson, Lichtheim, Wilson, Loprieno, Morenz, Fischer-Elfert, Forman, Quirke, Simpson, and Wente).
1510:
You raise an excellent question and I have amended the article to replace all single quotation marks with double quotation marks, except, of course, in the case of quotations within quotations, which employ single marks within double marks. If there's anything else, let me know.
1550:
distract a little too much from the flow of the prose by adding a bunch of
Egyptian pronunciations in parenthesis; I think a better option would be to include pronunciations for each literary work in their separate and respective articles. This model, as you might already know,
1608:"However, Edward F. Wente cautions that, even with explicit references of women reading letters, it is possible that women employed others to write documents." Not sure "caution" is the right word; it has a connotation of "warning", which is not what we're looking for here.
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revised version of the Greek alphabet. Coptic became the standard in the 4th century AD". So perhaps the beginning needs to change to include the next three centuries? Also Coptic maybe the last
Ancient egyptian language but not the last - Arabic has come since.
216:
Also please click on "alt text" in the toolbox at the upper right corner of this review page. You'll get a list of all the images, and their alt text in little blue boxes. The blue boxes are all blank, indicating that none of the images have alt text.
997:"This seems over-long for the lead. This could be shortened to something like: 'The creation of literature tended to be monopolized by an elite courtly and scribal class. There is, however, no full consensus among modern scholars on this.'"
1129:. The chief ones I spotted are Phoneme, Palimpsest, hermeneutics, orthography, and Palaeography. It would be better to say 'the study of handwriting, or Palaeography', 'the study of writing systems and symbol usage, Orthography,' etc."
1554:; if a Chinese person/place/thing/idea has its own article, there's no need to include the character name or pronunciation in a ton of other articles. Thanks for taking interest! And I'm glad you enjoyed reading the article. Cheers.--
883:. The chief ones I spotted are Phoneme, Palimpsest, hermeneutics, orthography, and Palaeography. It would be better to say "the study of handwriting, or Palaeography", "the study of writing systems and symbol usage, Orthography," etc.
90:
776:
This seems over-long for the lead. This could be shortened to something like: "The creation of literature tended to be monopolized by an elite courtly and scribal class. There is, however, no full consensus among modern scholars on
1206:
as case studies to reconstruct the main features of ancient
Egyptian literary discourse." Since this is quite important, and the conclusion to the article, how about completely recasting and extending this, for example as:
1040:." Canonized in this context is certainly not WP:JARGON. It simply means that the Egyptians designated certain texts as being more important than others and deserving of the label of "classic", such as how we designate
345:, example 2), and removing phrases like "princess", "limestone", "hypostyle", and "ostracon" that I thought could not be verified by a non-expert who is looking only at the image (see example 3 from the same section).
1035:
Well, I thought that linking "canon" to its
Wiktionary definition would resolve any doubts about its usage, but to make things very clear, the use of canon here does not refer to Christian saints, but to
832:"By the New Kingdom period, the writing of commemorative graffiti on sacred temple and tomb walls flourished as a competitive genre of literature, with similar formulaic phrasing found in other genres."
334:
Thanks for doing all that. The alt text requirement is relatively new. We don't expect all existing FAs to be updated immediately, but when you have the time.... The alt text you wrote was very good; I
512:
From this, I think it is fair to say that women most likely read letters, wrote letters, and sent letters, with the slight possibility that they dictated while scribes actually penned the documents.--
260:
I'm sorry, but this needs to be said. Alt text is not a "problem" as you so callously put it. It provides an essential service to visually impaired Wikipedians and I wish it had been enforced
1092:
Hmm. Now that you mention it, it does sound confusing if one does not take into account the graffiti section of the article; I have reworded this. I hope that it sounds much clearer now.
604:
1430:
Excellent! I'm glad all of that is settled. On a completely different note, would you be interested in reviewing the article? Or are you busy with other things at the moment? Regards.--
975:
This seems contradictory since the whole article is about Egyptian literature from a much earlier period. Could this not better say; "that a narrative Egyptian literature was created."
754:
This seems contradictory since the whole article is about Egyptian literature from a much earlier period. Could this not better say; "that a narrative Egyptian literature was created."
687:
Very good article. Well-written and interesting. However I have a couple of concerns, mainly with the wording of the Lead - which is obviously an excercise in cramming in information.
1551:
1396:. How do I go about deleting this image? Where should I go to alert an administrator that this image needs to be deleted so that its Commons version can be used instead? Thanks.--
1350:- Could you please clarify where the original upload was, and what "Photograph at the Turin Museum courtesy of J. Harrell", because it suggests that the file might be copyrighted.
1739:
Hi again! I always considered that to be implied, but since you want something more explicit, I have included the word "lyrics" to make things absolutely clear. :) Regards.--
1651:"Nevertheless, there is speculation amongst scholars that ancient Egyptian literature" Make this stronger. "Nevertheless, scholars speculate that ancient Egyptian literature"
1141:
If you can think of something good, I'll use it. Otherwise, I think this one should be left alone and we should settle only for a wikilink if someone is confused by the word.
590:
Hmm. It doesn't seem to be working for me (page won't load correctly); could you point out which specific links go to disambiguation pages, so that I can fix them? Thanks!--
890:
is obscure: "The Heqanakht papyri, penned by a gentleman farmer, date to the Eleventh dynasty and represent some of the longest surviving private letters of ancient Egypt"
1701:
Hi Dabomb87. Thanks for reviewing the article! I have copyedited the article and amended it according to your suggestions; I hope you find my edits sufficient. Cheers.--
40:
721:"Ancient Egyptian literature refers to literature written in the Egyptian language during Ancient Egypt's pharaonic period until the end of Roman domination."
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664:
Yeah, it's rare when I do a non-Chinese-history article, but when I do, I make sure that I do it right. I'm glad you enjoyed reading the article! Cheers.--
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if this is how you normally greet people. Or, if you are willing and able to be civil, I would like to get this review started on a very important subject
1679:
crowds the text on my screen (Firefox 3.5, 1280x800). I think if you could slightly shorten the image directly above it, that would solve the problem.
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No, not the oldest surviving, just the longest-written letters that we have from ancient Egypt; I have reworded that sentence to clarify this point.
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rivers in the world). Also, don't link more general terms when you have more specific links nearby (e.g. "literacy" when there's "literacy rate")
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1009:(which, it is argued, could act independently of the court and politics). Perhaps I should have made this clearer to begin with. In any case,
1597:"Besides the glorification of kings, poems were also written to honor various deities, and even the Nile." "also" is largely redundant here.
1443:
Rather busy unfortunately; I am checking in on Knowledge (XXG) just about once a day, and that's all I can manage for a week or two. Sorry!
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from the New Kingdom, was to be performed for dinner guests at formal banquets." I don't think they found the song itself, but it's lyrics.
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Is there a reason why single quotes are used instead of double? The article looks very interesting, will try to review later if possible.
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As you can see, most of these are language nitpicks, and I will be more than happy to offer my support when these are resolved.
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743:"It was not until the early Middle Kingdom (21st century BC to 17th century BC) that Egyptian literature proper was created."
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1103:"This brings to mind TV, DVDs etc. Why not 'Ancient Egyptian literature has been preserved on a wide variety of media.'?"
1013:
scholarly dispute that the creation of literature was monopolized by scribes. So your suggestion would be patently false.
131:
Although I usually do Chinese history articles, I noticed this was a very neglected subject on Wiki, so I decided to act
1392:
Hi Nuclear Warfare (that's a cool name btw). I have fixed (and in one case replaced) every image mentioned, except for
865:
This brings to mind TV, DVDs etc. Why not "Ancient Egyptian literature has been preserved on a wide variety of media."?
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1081:"I'm confused by this. What is a competitive genre of literature? What has the formulaic phrasing to do with this?"
810:"Genres of Middle Kingdom literature, such as 'teachings' and fictional tales, remained popular in the New Kingdom"
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I'm confused by this. What is a competitive genre of literature? What has the formulaic phrasing to do with this?
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thought to have been penned by women - if the latter we probably need a caveat about the possible use of scribes.
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Cool, thanks! It looks like the only problems were "canon" and "vignette", which have now been fixed. Cheers.--
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953:"Surely this should read "from" rather than "during", since the Roman period was not part of the Pharaonic."
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also suggests that there were seasonal shortages caused by the limited growing season of Cyperus papyrus."
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1238:
That's an excellent suggestion! I will amend the article to include this revised sentence word for word.--
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Surely this should read "from" rather than "during", since the Roman period was not part of the Pharaonic.
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have alt text. Could you point out a specific image? I can't find one image that lacks alt text. Thanks.
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1635:"Moreover, Wente calls this a "...polemical tractate" which counsels against the rote, " "which"--: -->
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1641:"c. 484 BC–c. 425 BC" Not sure why circa needs to be linked twice here; the en dash should be spaced.
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All of these images now have alt text (for this article, at least). Problem solved. Moving on...--
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or literary history in general, this article will certainly be an enjoyable read (I guarantee it).
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788:"Scribes of the New Kingdom canonized and copied many literary texts written in Middle Egyptian,"
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1059:"This sentence seems to jar without a specifier: "Some genres" or "Several genres" for example."
940:. I'm glad you have enjoyed reading this article. I'll try to address your points one by one:--
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For an online encyclopedia, that's probably for the best. Cheers and thanks for the support!--
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This sentence seems to jar without a specifier: "Some genres" or "Several genres" for example.
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here's inconsistency in italicizing. I see "c." in italics sometimes, and other times not.
1024:"Canonized to most people, means listed as a Saint. What exactly does the word mean here?"
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1125:"The main problem here is the use of some unexplained terms that could be categorised as
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The main problem here is the use of some unexplained terms that could be categorised as
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Canonized to most people, means listed as a Saint. What exactly does the word mean here?
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You're very welcome. I'm glad to cooperate and help out the visually impaired. Cheers.--
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given the discussion in the article about literary works popular in the Roman era like
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to improve it a bit by removing less-important phrases like "A museum display of" (see
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1152:"Does this mean the letters were of great length, or are the oldest surviving ones?"
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Good points. It should be made clear that Coptic was the last script adopted by the
1629:"This, alongside tearing off pieces of papyrus documents to make smaller letters,
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Does this mean the letters were of great length, or are the oldest surviving ones?
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1613:"Egyptians was the 'teaching' or sebayt genre" We still have single quotes here.
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1618:"that can serve to instruct as well as entertain" "serve to" is unnecessary.
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reconstruct the main features of overall ancient Egyptian literary discourse.
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A group of literary works that are generally accepted as representing a field
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go back through every article I've ever written and provide Alt Text now?--
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of Egypt" Why is "history" italicized? For that matter, why is it linked?
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Egyptians, as opposed to the adoption of Arabic during the Middle Ages.--
1172:
I hope you find these copyedits sufficient and satisfactory. Cheers.--
202:
for correct formatting of alt text (not to be confused with captions)
1326:
Could you please make sure that the images don't cause edit bunching?
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
1476:- sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool.
572:; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox.
854:"Ancient Egyptian literature is found on a wide variety of media."
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is followed by written Chinese character names and pronunciations
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Featured article candidates/Ancient Egyptian literature/archive1
1623:"manuscripts which have their original contents" "which"--: -->
1332:- Could you please fill in as much of this as possible? Thanks.
1070:
This is a good point and I have fixed the article accordingly.
645:
Another masterpiece, not China-related!! Definate FA quality.
1338:- Could you link to the original link on the website please.
1114:
That's a good suggestion, I've used your wording exactly.
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1646:"amongst " "among" is plainer, and works just as well.
1720:, found on a tombstone of the Middle Kingdom and on
1356:- Could you please provide an English translation?
1790:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
281:Pericles and I have resolved all and any issues.
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1294:Excellent! Thanks for reviewing the article.--
552:Awesome! Thank you for your support. Cheers.--
1796:No further edits should be made to this page.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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888:Private letters, model letters, and epistles
264:. Perhaps the real problem is your attitude?
1671:"Prior to" "Before" is shorter and sweeter.
1354:File:Maler der Grabkammer des Nacht 001.jpg
936:. Haven't spoken to you since you reviewed
500:Here is the exact quote from the source by
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
1662:"was the first to compile a comprehensive
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1048:as classics of modern English literature.
396:That was an interesting read, nice work.
126:This article, which has about 45 KB of
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1344:- Can this be categorized any further?
1270:Great. That resolves all my issues.
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1342:File:Loyalist Teaching-beginning.jpg
1321:until the major issues are fixed.)
342:WP:ALT #Flawed and better examples
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1590:, and I have only a few nitpicks:
1394:File:Heratic script limestone.jpg
1360:File:Heratic script limestone.jpg
986:Once again, good point, fixed it.
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1752:I'm a very literal person :)
886:The following sentence from
157:Images need alt text as per
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311:Wow, dude, settle down and
135:. For anyone interested in
65:Ancient Egyptian literature
31:featured article nomination
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1362:- Needs to be deleted per
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964:Excellent point; fixed it.
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1793:Please do not modify it.
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1716:One more comment: "The
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525:Thanks, nicely fixed.
56:18:57, 18 August 2009
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643:Strong support
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73:Nominator(s):
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1718:Harper's Song
1714:Looks great!
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154:Done; thanks.
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137:Ancient Egypt
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1310:Image review
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112:Citation bot
72:
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1317:(Temporary
1011:there is no
938:Han Dynasty
651:Dr. Blofeld
504:(1990: 9),
1511:Regards.--
1410:username)
1364:WP:CSD#F8
1127:WP:Jargon
1046:Moby Dick
881:WP:Jargon
876:Main Text
347:Eubulides
337:attempted
219:Eubulides
164:Eubulides
1754:Dabomb87
1727:Dabomb87
1686:Dabomb87
1586:contribs
1576:Dabomb87
1571:Comments
1569:Support
1496:Dabomb87
1478:Ealdgyth
1474:Comments
684:Comments
609:Dabomb87
574:Dabomb87
538:Chequers
510:ENDQUOTE
498:Response
481:Chequers
464:Thanks,
413:Chequers
313:be civil
247:Dabomb87
179:??? But
107:Analysis
54:Karanacs
50:promoted
1664:history
1536:Morozov
1527:Support
1492:Comment
680:Support
427:ancient
391:Support
262:earlier
181:they do
99:Toolbox
1319:Oppose
777:this."
200:WP:ALT
159:WP:ALT
133:boldly
1574:from
534:Spiel
506:QUOTE
477:Spiel
409:Spiel
394:Query
16:<
1758:talk
1731:talk
1690:talk
1636:that
1624:that
1580:talk
1500:talk
1482:Talk
1453:Talk
1420:Talk
1379:Talk
1044:and
613:talk
605:this
603:Try
578:talk
570:Dabs
529:Ϣere
472:Ϣere
447:and
404:Ϣere
351:talk
287:talk
271:talk
251:talk
223:talk
208:talk
198:See
168:talk
1312:by
1284:dar
1275:Xan
1226:dar
1217:Xan
917:dar
908:Xan
706:dar
697:Xan
451:.--
321:.--
52:by
1760:)
1733:)
1692:)
1592:.
1502:)
1480:-
1446:NW
1413:NW
1372:NW
615:)
607:.
580:)
353:)
289:)
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253:)
225:)
210:)
185:--
170:)
59:.
33:.
1756:(
1729:(
1688:(
1655:T
1583:·
1578:(
1533:A
1498:(
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1417:(
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1376:(
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1036:"
714:)
611:(
576:(
349:(
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166:(
161:.
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