883:
891:
What is the point? I suspect the point is that you're expected to click to get full res (it's rather too full, actually); this is hard for people with slow connections, and inconvenient for everyone. The alt text could be a little more descriptive. The caption might just say "Map of the Baker Street & Waterloo
Railway route and its extension over nearly three decades". But being able to read the key is critical to the colour and line coding on the map; the key should be a rectangle, tallish, with font-size twice the current. If it can't fit along the left side, put it in the sea of white on the right?
310:
In the specific example above, ref is not provided to support the introductory "With the extension to
Paddington still under construction," bit, just the date of the bill's introduction. The fact that the extension to Paddington was under construction at the time is covered by ref and ref in the last paragraph of the previous section which states that construction began in August 1911 and was completed with the opening of the station in December 1913. --
1053:"Prominent men: drawings by Harry Furniss, circa 1880-1910" is not a publication but a database created by the NPG for Furniss's sketches. This image is likely a draft of Furniss's caricatures. I would advise not using it because of the 20-year publication rights (of previously unpublished works) in the UK that comes into effect even if the image would be PD due to 70-year-pma. Use the finished product in
276:
covers the whole system, including a couple of the others used directly here. The books used are all recent editions and are effectively a distillation of the primary and secondary sources available to the authors. With regards to technological/engineering issues, I have tried to avoid including much on these matters except in the construction section and have provided wiki-links to relevant articles on
1177:
appears to be the original from which it was created. It is ascribed to an unknown photographer and dated 1906. The retouching of the rivets and the painting out of the background is indicative that it was prepared for publication, probably for the
Bakerloo line's opening in 1906. If it was published
890:
Well, my eyesight is pretty good, and I have great difficulty reading the text for the station names. There's a lot of white space, so why can't the font-size be bigger? "1906â33" or "1906â1933", with unspaced en dash, not spaced hyphen. Hands up anyone here who can make out a single word in the key.
309:
In most cases the London
Gazette references are used to provide a direct primary source link to the actual bill that Badsey Ellis has referred to in his book as he has generally referred to the actual primary documents themselves and describes the planned route and station locations in his narrative.
222:
I am concerned about the status of
Capital Transport as a vanity publisher, due to their website, their lack of an editorial or submissions policy, and Rose being acknowledged in World Cat as the publisher for "Rose, Douglas (1999). The London Underground, A Diagrammatic History. Douglas Rose/Capital
1350:
I see the images as supplementary to the text, which carries the detail of how the routes developed, and would prefer to keep them as simple as possible. Adding different colours or tones to the images would require an explanatory key that would, of necessity require the image dimensions boxes to be
1192:
The image used in this article is not a retouched version of the London
Transport Museum photographic archive link providedâobserve the differences in positioning of the car's windows in the background, which implies the images were taken at different distances. It would be needed to find out from
1326:
I was ready through the article and it's all very good, but going through the images it can get a bit confusing as to what the new stations that were rejected/accepted wereâIt involves a lot of scrolling back and forth between previous sections and the current section. Would it be possible (if you
1121:
I'm pretty sure that I uploaded the image with the same copyright tag as the gate stock image below, e.g. {{tl:PD-UK}}, but as it has been moved to commons, I cannot check this. Mike Horne's book gives no source information, so apart from the approximate date it is impossible to identify any other
1014:
and look forward to giving this latest one my full support. The issue holding me back at the moment is that of the PD status of three of the images. I am not an expert image reviewer, my comments being based on my understanding of advice I have received in the past. I hope an expert will come soon
402:
Not sure this is going to be possible without a complete rewrite of the BSicon templates which is unlikely to happen easily or soon. The diagram is a visual representation of what's in the text anyway and I am not sure that it would be very useful to an unsighted reader as I expect that a screen
275:
I don't think the fact that they have the same publisher has any particular relevance to the coverage of the subject matter within the books themselves. There have been many books published on the London
Underground - Wolmar lists nearly fifty which he used as source materials for his book which
304:
indicates that a High
Quality Reliable Source may not have been used to establish the narrative / weighting of the article; and subsequently sections of the Gazette have been cherry picked to establish a historical narrative that may be substantially Original Research, ie "With the extension to
233:
Although most of the books in the references list are published by
Capital Transport, the company is not a vanity publisher, but a small specialist publisher on transport subjects - particularly those in London. A number of the books used for the article are published in association with the
799:
too small, and most of the image is just white space. Same for the others. I'm not sure a real photo (Oxford Circus station? The temporary pier?) wouldn't be better in the lead, with the current lead map further down, centred, and larger (i.e., not squeezing text at
1117:
Jetty picture: Similar problem - when was it first published? Additionally, you are claiming that the author has been dead for 70+ years, but we can't assume this since we don't know who he/she was. A photographer aged 25 in 1896 would only have been 69 in 1940.
1335:
would have
Hampstead Road and Euston and St George's Circus through Old Kent Road as red (or whatever). Or maybe you could have the current route slightly faded or some other way of distinction. Just my AUD$ 0.02 and if you think I'm a nutter then so be it!
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and in larger bookshops with specialist transport sections (for example, Waterstone's in Piccadilly). I believe that it is reasonable to assume that the museum and Waterstone's would only be selling these titles if they were considered to be good quality
91:
271:
I am concerned about a source reliance stemming from Capital Transport publications separate to the status of the publisher. What other monographs of the tube system exist? Journal Articles from history of technology and science / engineering?
1039:(which I couldn't find when I made the scan) indicates that it is from a set titled "Prominent men: drawings by Harry Furniss, circa 1880-1910". It therefore seems likely that it was published before Wright's death and no later than 1910. --
794:
I think you created them, so can you massively increase the size of the text? The year range should have an unspaced en dash in the first one (see MOSDASH). I've boosted the px size of the Baker Street excerpt below, but the text is
306:^ London Gazette: no. 28552, pp. 8615â8620, 21 November 1911. Retrieved on 2009-11-07." Some of these uses are clear, but in some the passing of an act is being used to imply that substantive things happened in the real world.
181:
I did not reply here until now as I felt that the comments below adequately covered my concerns in such a self-evident manner that to note it would be superfluous. All my concerns have been adequately addressed. :)
787:(1) Text on maps unreadable. (2) Images mostly tiny. I've boosted the size of some of the pics, so you may wish to audit the placement. (3) The prose could do with an independent copy-editânot a long job, though.
1174:
810:
I was trying not to force the image sizes, but will be happy to make the gate stock one bigger. If it is moved after the text in the section with a {{clearleft}} afterwards, I think it will stop the pinching.
1327:
don't have a problem with it) for the images to contain some easy to recognise distinction? maybe colour the station's red for rejected and green for accepted from the previous image in the article. So the
807:
I will see what I can do about the sizes of the maps and the text they contain. I want to keep the text size in the route progression maps consistent from one to another so that the scale can be maintained.
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1298:
Sorry, I missed his comments which, together with your responses, remove my concerns about images. I have moved to full support - sorry it's taken so long but I've been busy, been away blah blah blah...
813:
I would like to keep the main map at the top because it gives more of a sense of the article than the pier and the Oxford tube station pictures that only relate to a small aspect of the story. --
127:
I am nominating this article because I believe it covers its subject fully and meets the standard required to be included amongst the set of featured. It is a companion to the featured articles
1173:
Mike Horne's book from which this was scanned has no source information for the image. The uploaded version does not appear in the London Transport Museum photographic archive, though
1036:
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which uses many icon images to comprise the whole map. Forcing alt description text into the diagram means that you need to input each desciption for each icon, in the case of
132:
1031:
who died in 1925. Wright killed himself in 1904 following the famous trial. The Badsey-Ellis book, from which the image was scanned, ascribes the source to the
1012:: I think the maps are now fine, and so is the prose. I continue to be impressed by the extent of industry and research which is behind these railway articles,
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I think 88 and 89 were different because they were copied over from one of the companion articles. Changed all retrieved dates to full UK style date.--
230:." The impact of sourcing an article so significantly from sources published by a vanity publisher would be to undermine its status in terms of 1b/c.
426:
50 times. Ultimately the ineffectiveness to display a proper alt text from WP:ROUTE diagram shouldn't challenge the qualificaition of the article. --
1193:
whom or where did Mike Horne get his photos from, and whether they fall into the public domain or was he given permission/license to publish them.
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Example of copy-editing needed, in the lead: "fraud" could be "fraudulent behaviour" ... unsure. "It" refers to Whitaker or LGFC or BS? "connected
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assuming the issue regarding the maps is sorted out to everyone's satisfaction. As David says above,my concerns regarding this were all resolved
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Agreed. Windows are slightly different as if the photographer took two shots from slightly different positions. I will remove from article. --
1136:
Brian is correct here. You need to know who is the author and be verifiably certain he is dead beyond 70Â years to use any 70-year-pma tag.
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reader will read left to right across a row rather than up down. I will see if there is a way to make a screen reader skip this diagram. --
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information on its origin or if it was published at the time. I'm quite happy to remove it if that is thought to be the solution.--
1253:
as she is not reviewing images at the moment. Hopefully, my answers above can help someone else make a decision on this matter.--
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Actually, adding alt text is both possible and practical, and I've demonstrated this for the diagram in question; please see
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Paddington still under construction, the LER published a bill in November 1911 for the continuation to Queen's Park. =: -->
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Access to the Times links on infotrac is often available via membership of local public libraries in the UK.--
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Thanks for confirming. I didn't want to assume that everything was OK, if there was something I had missed. --
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Whittaker Wright: when was this image first published? My understanding is that the 70-year rule applies to
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much as an Ordnance Survey Map would be. For a map published in 1949, this would have expired in 1999.--
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Gates Stock: I am not sure that PD in the USA is covered by the existing licence information.
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Just testing! I've got too many versions on my hard drive and used the wrong one. Now fixed.--
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670:'s documentation is quite cryptic, so I'm reluctant to charge in and fix this stuff myself.
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Excellent, Thanks for finding that. I will upload the original 3 caricature image from the
833:" would avoid "to" x 3. Remove "covering"? "In 1933, it and the rest ..."âthis is awkward.
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section still generates dozens of images that lack alt text. This diagram is generated by
925:(Cough) David, you've reverted back to the West Coast Main Line and not the DC Line... â
719:... is it out of copyright? In other words, are we linking to a copyright violation here?
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works, and if the image was not published before 1923 then it may not be PD in the USA.
804:âeven now, it squeezes). The 1906 Gate pic is tiny AND squeezes text (a breach of MoS).
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I think fraud is more appropriate; "fraudulent behaviour" seems a bit equivocal
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It looks like the diagram's alt text will be fixed at the template level; see
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is vastly improved and looks good. (updated on 16:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC))
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Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool.
548:. I have fixed many of the alt text issues noted in the previous comment by
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If you could satisfy these concerns are groundless, it would be wonderful.
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I read this ages ago, then forgot about it, Reread today, happy to support
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Technically possible, but in reality impractical. The map is created by
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:Route diagram template #Alt text in route diagrams
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so the images are displayed without alt text. Can you please fix this?
443:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:Route diagram template #Alt text in route diagrams
910:
Text in all maps has now been increased by 63%. How does that look? --
92:
Featured article candidates/Baker Street and Waterloo Railway/archive1
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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don't have it. The diagram's images need alts because they aren't
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book and a crop of just whitaker to replace the existing image.--
1270:
is extremely knowledgeable on images, and usually very helpful.
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Geographic route map of the Baker Street & Waterloo Railway
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I've dug into the navbox to add alt text for the image there --
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I did make a request that Awadewit have a look at these, but
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive.billson/tubemaps/1949.html
755:, which was in public ownership as part of the nationalised
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Compare e.g. refs 81 and 88. Consider using one format for
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enlarged, potentially crowding the space on the page. --
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provided some comments before it came to FAC. Thanks. --
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states that the images are used with permission of the
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would have Marylebone in green (or whatever) and the
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I await the verdict of one better informed than me.
759:, it is arguable that the image would be covered by
284:, etc. which cover these subjects in more detail. --
1389:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1178:in 1906, it would be in the public domain now --
636:to generate the image, but neglects to pass the
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates
133:Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1395:No further edits should be made to this page.
1324:Comments on your Images (just to annoy you!!)
300:I am concerned that the extensive use of the
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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397:and give more info on the represented stops.
580:. However, the diagram at the start of the
425:, you'll have to repeat the same text : -->
137:Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
240:The Bakerloo Line - An Illustrated History
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1284:Jappalang has already commented above.--
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446:. This shouldn't require any change to
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500:Use a consistent style for ref dates.
248:London's Disused Underground Stations
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616:to generate the problematic images.
1235:might be persuaded to take a look.
360:No dab links or dead external links
1150:I'll remove it from the article.--
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449:Baker Street and Waterloo Railway
423:Baker Street and Waterloo Railway
244:The Story of London's Underground
65:Baker Street and Waterloo Railway
1027:The Whitaker Wright image is by
751:As the map was produced for the
250:) and they are all sold by the
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206:00:58, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
192:23:46, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
31:featured article nomination
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1392:Please do not modify it.
36:Please do not modify it.
1065:), which is undeniably
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56:23:20, 10 January 2010
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1333:third image
1079:(for UK).
1022:unpublished
996:talk to me?
645:Superimpose
631:Superimpose
223:Transport.
1035:. The NPG
1007:Leaning to
846:Iridescent
655:BS-overlap
638:|base_alt=
621:BS-overlap
611:BS-overlap
1353:DavidCane
1286:DavidCane
1255:DavidCane
1209:DavidCane
1195:Jappalang
1180:DavidCane
1152:DavidCane
1138:Jappalang
1124:DavidCane
1099:DavidCane
1081:Jappalang
1041:DavidCane
989:Jimfbleak
959:Drive-by
944:DavidCane
912:DavidCane
850:DavidCane
815:DavidCane
792:The maps:
765:DavidCane
715:This ref
692:Eubulides
672:Eubulides
512:DavidCane
482:DavidCane
464:Eubulides
405:DavidCane
367:DavidCane
312:DavidCane
286:DavidCane
257:DavidCane
238:(Horne's
198:DavidCane
141:DavidCane
75:DavidCane
727:Ealdgyth
709:Comments
419:WP:ROUTE
385:Alt text
342:Comments
328:Fifelfoo
282:caissons
255:works.--
184:Fifelfoo
158:Fifelfoo
154:Comments
108:Analysis
50:promoted
1367:Support
1070:PD-1923
1010:Support
983:Support
961:Support
784:Oppose.
583:Opening
564:and by
546:Comment
100:Toolbox
1059:Google
973:cent 2
970:irides
901:(talk)
874:(talk)
452:or to
156:1b/c:
933:scent
928:iride
797:still
626:uses
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967:. â
965:here
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895:Tony
868:Tony
854:talk
831:with
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769:talk
742:here
731:Talk
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135:and
79:talk
1061:or
1017::-
802:all
665:BS3
601:BS3
570:to
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