1467:
it's "unclear whether it was a real illness or a social phenomenon". Which is it? There's lots of awkwardness in the prose as well, such as "In Italy, a similar phenomenon to dancing mania was tarantism", and "The earliest known outbreak of dancing mania occurred in the 7th century, and it reappeared many times across Europe until about the 17th century". So the 7th-century outbreak reappeared many times? Why so coy with the "about the 17th century"? Later we're told that dancing mania died out by the mid-17th century, not "about the 17th century", whatever that's supposed to mean.
496:
modern-day hallucinations are gained through use of drugs (probably referring to LSD), and these happen at raves. He also describes how participants are often part of a subculture, and act in ways that onlookers may consider odd or bizarre (I personally don't understand the impulse to party all night long). Furthermore, like with the religious cults, raves were sometimes illegal (depending on where they were I guess, I'm not really that knowledgable about them). All these show things in common with dancing mania.
488:, an activity which became popular in the latter half of the 20th century, as sharing some features of dancing mania" is such a bizarre statement that it probably warrants an explanatory footnote detailing exactly what he believes. An organised concert or party has nothing in common with the outbreaks of mass hysteria described in the article, other than "some of the people involved may have been dancing in both cases". By all means leave it in, but it needs some kind of explanation;
310:"One of the most prominent theories is that victims suffered from ergot poisoning" needs to be meticulously sourced, ideally to more than one source; ergotism can cause convulsions, but since it also shuts off the flow of blood to the limbs, it certainly couldn't cause any kind of prolonged activity. Additionally, it was an extremely common disorder and it's extremely unlikely that witnesses wouldn't have recognised the very distinctive symptoms;
624:"The earliest known incident occurred in Bernburg, where 18 peasants began singing and dancing around a church, disturbing a Christmas Eve church service in the 1020s": I think the "church" of church service could probably be dropped as it's implied and a bit repetitious as it currently stands. Also, it seems odd to put the date at the end of the sentence when you open with "The earliest known incident...".
1487:"In general though I really enjoyed it, and I don't see any reason why you couldn't get this through FAC.". Why give me false hope? You're not exactly inexperienced with this process, which is exactly why I came to you - experience and knowledge. Not that I'm blaming you of course, but this has been a big waste of everybody's time when it could have been better at GA instead.
1466:
these whacky topics, but this just isn't ready. Iridescent is quite right in saying that it needs a ruthless going over by a good copyeditor, but there are also basic inconsistencies as pointed out above. For instance, the lead describes dancing mania as a social phenomenon, but later we're told that
401:
has a "one measures a circle beginning anywhere" policy of treating all research as equally valid, regardless of who's doing it, and thus carries all kind of speculative nonsense. (Every issue of the magazine carries the disclaimer 'From the viewpoint of the mainstream, function is lure us into a
537:
I haven't ignored them. I decided not to use the latter book because that's specific to the 1518 outbreak. I'm certainly not opposed to using him as a source but I don't have access to his book. There are so many other sources out there I don't think it's that big of a deal. The first book I have
495:
I disagree. The article describes how many of the dances could well have been organised, and participants were often drunk (see the point about wine). Sure they aren't identical, but I've not said that they are. You're right that this could be expanded upon though. Bartholomew describes how the
699:
When you mention
Bartholomew in the prose, it would be useful to mention why his opinion is worth mentioning. This can be done by simply saying "Historian Robert Bartholomew..." or "Author Robert Bartholomew in his study of mass psychogenic illness and social delusion...". The same goes for
538:
mentioned, but haven't used because pretty much all of the other sources draw their information from it, but at the same time add other information and updated ideas (as it was written in the 19th century). For example, Bartholomew discusses some of Hecker's commentary, which I've noted. I
515:. We don't expect article writers to cover everything about a topic, but (rightly or not) this has a whiff of "only looked at what we could find on Google". There may be good reasons for not using Waller, but since you quote from his magazine articles presumably you're not opposed to him
599:""Dancing mania" comes from the Greek choros (dance) and mania (madness)": do you mean ""Choreomania" comes from the Greek choros (dance) and mania (madness)"? Otherwise the derivation makes little sense as saying that dancing mania literally means dancing madness is a bit pointless.
574:"one particularly notable outbreak of many occurred in Strasburg in 1518.": I know it's difficult to strike a balance between covering the main points and not going into too much detail in the lead, but it's not clear why the 1518 event is singled out.
1600:
Aiken, my sincere apologies-- until I archived this FAC, I had not read the article, and only now do I see it's not a dance article, rather a medical article on a topic in which I have some knowledge. I'm afraid that, unless the article conforms to
295:
The lead says "One of the first major outbreaks was in Aachen, Germany, on 24 June 1374, believed to be at least partly a result of ergot poisoning", but nowhere in the text does it mention the ergot theory in relation to this particular
896:: In the bibliography, publishers' details should not be abbreviated (as in "American Psychiatric Pub", which sounds like a crazy drinking club) Disappointingly, this should be spelt out. Otherwise, all sources look OK.
360:
is generally an unreliable source unless the particular author is recognised as an authority. The philosophy of
Forteanism ("all views are equally valid") is fundamentally opposite to that of Knowledge, and while
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you'll want to heck over to make sure I haven't changed the meaning of anything. Considering the trickiness of the source material, it's a good effort – I image it's something similar to working on the
1507:
I think you were probably a bit too quick out of the blocks with this FAC, but I suppose that faint heart never won fair lady. With a bit of hard graft you ought to be able to make it, so good luck.
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article, although this seems to have gained more academic attention. While I am concerned by iridescent's points about two books on the subject being more or less excluded, the article does
1212:
It is difficult to describe it as anything other than a phenomenon, and most sources agree that it was one rather than an illness. That nobody is completely certain is detailed further on.
1205:"it remains unclear whether it was a real illness or a social phenomenon" - if so, then why do you identify it in the very first sentence as a "social phenomenon"?
338:
Lots of weasel words ("some believe ", "it is believed", "scientists have described"…) all of which appear to be sourced to the single source of
Bartholomew;
254:
Striking the "leaning oppose". I do think this could do with a thorough wash-and-scrub from an MOS hardliner, but I won't oppose over stylistic issues. –
40:
1180:"for which there is abundant evidence, both contemporary and modern-day" - how can you have modern-day evidence of a historic event? Please clarify
466:
Try to avoid "Black Death" as a term if you can help it. The term is a modern invention, and not what people in this period would have called it;
504:
397:) are mainly written by enthusiastic amateurs and have a reputation for accuracy and fact-checking considerably worse even than Knowledge's.
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Well, the 1518 outbreak is the only one with an article, and Waller considers it (and the 1374 outbreak) to be the best recorded examples.
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is a superior journal willing to go the extra mile when it comes to research, and has stumbled on a hitherto unknown fact; it's because
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A very interesting article; when I saw the title of the nomination I was worried it might be a computer game but was happily surprised.
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Perhaps you have a point. I really do like the connection to the Pied Piper though. I'll see if a more reliable source discusses it.
1398:"one of the biggest outbreaks began in Aix-la-Chapelle" - source identifies this as the first major outbreak, not one of the biggest
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That's not exactly true. None of the available sources discuss the similarities to the Pied Piper other than that one, for example.
1605:
on secondary peer-reviewed sources, it will have a hard time at either GAN or FAC. I'm concerned also that I don't see the word
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Does
Bartholomew explain why it's unlikely that it was usually women who were effected? At the moment this is just left hanging.
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Yes you do - you include a Google Books link that provides the necessary pages! You no longer need paper to read a book ;-)
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anywhere on the page, in terms of differential diagnosis. I suggest a peer review, rather than a GAN, and a post to
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I am nominating this for featured article because... it's a bizarre topic and I feel it meets the relevant criteria.
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This specific statement needs a source? The outbreaks described already generally make no mentions of foreigners.
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does carry some respectable articles, it also carries a great deal of extremely dubious amateur original research;
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Sort of, I thought that "to which they responded to" was repetitious and convoluted, so tried to simplify it but
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an article written today, for people of today. I don't see why I can't use the most commonly used term for it.
1072:"Victims of dancing mania often ended their processions at places dedicated to that saint" - Vitus or John?
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Thank you very much for your edits and comments. I'll respond to them momentarily, but I did wonder about
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have chosen to use it, but I chose to use the other sources, which are all as reliable and comprehensive.
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Though the previous sentence calls it St. Vitus' Dance, the sentence before that refers to both saints.
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A matter of personal preference, but do the columns of the reference section need to be so narrow?
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Trimmed these down, though with a topic like this, it is difficult to be certain about things.
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is a forum for the discussion of observations and ideas, however absurd or unpopular'.) –
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Most glaringly (to me); you've completely ignored the two leading books on the topic,
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I think you've missed my point completely here. The reason no other source other than
1550:
Can someone close this? Apologies for wasting your time. I'll take it to GA instead.
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1303:"restored to full health" - source only says "many" were restored, not all survivors
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Yes...sorry, maybe I'm being dense, but I don't really understand that explanation.
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Don't repeat the word "many" so much, and certainly not more than once per sentence
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Strasbourg. Don't know what you mean otherwise; it occurred in all those places.
649:"at the nearby St. Vitus chapel": should it be "at the nearby St. Vitus' chapel"?
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Hetherington, Marks, Martino, and
Midelfort. You got it right for Justus Hecker.
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This was what Google books called it. However, I changed it to press instead.
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both OK, although might be an idea to add
Breughel's dates to the second one
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There is a Strasb(o)urg in all those places - which one does this refer to?
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As I don't have the source to hand, I can't really do anything about this.
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Don't link the same term multiple times, especially not in close proximity
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reference. There's nothing from it that's necessary to the article, and
1328:"until as late as 1959" - the source mentions a more recent occurrence
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The second item in the further reading section need publication dates.
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It was choreomania, which translates to dancing madness (or mania).
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
834:. Feel free to undo it though if you don't think the change works.
1002:
Was "dancing mania" coined by
Paracelsus, or was it "choreomania"?
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I found one and have removed all references to the
Fortean Times.
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The change is fine, I just couldn't figure out the missing word.
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St. Vitus, which is already mentioned in the previous sentence.
1423:
Title in Hecker link does not match the one that appears here.
1505:
You're being a little selective. What I also said to you was "
1027:
Why is chorea discussed under
Definition and not Explanations?
1283:
Okay. The phrasing doesn't make that clear - can you revise?
757:
Someone else changed that; I've restored to three columns.
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I would if I could Jim, but I don't have the information.
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Nev1, do you have any further comments for this article?
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region of the spirit where the writ of law does not run
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What it says. It was strange because it was unfamiliar.
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Because it was believed chorea showed similar symptoms.
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Strasburg or
Strasbourg? In France, Austria, or Germany?
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No apologies necessary; good luck next time through!
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I posted, but I don't blame you for my being hasty.
1509:" In my opinion that "hard graft" hasn't been done.
118:Featured article candidates/Dancing mania/archive1
1636:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1373:"not all outbreaks involved foreigners" - source?
932:"notable outbreak of many occurred" - many what?
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1642:No further edits should be made to this page.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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1483:This is a stark contrast to what you said
1405:Major and big are used synonymously here.
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41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
324:"St Vitus Dance" or "St Vitus's Dance"?
191:—no dab links, no dead external links.
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18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
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1462:. I hate to do this, because I just
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383:has discussed it isn't because
331:Changed all to St Vitus' Dance.
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812:change. Was that intentional?
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512:A Time to Dance, A Time to Die
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56:23:32, 24 September 2010
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50:not promoted
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214:talk to me?
1425:Nikkimaria
1355:Nikkimaria
1285:Nikkimaria
1144:Strasbourg
1099:Nikkimaria
1054:Nikkimaria
984:Nikkimaria
784:blood rain
1162:Trimmed.
939:Removed.
779:few edits
296:outbreak;
207:Jimfbleak
1603:WP:MEDRS
1514:Fatuorum
1472:Fatuorum
1232:ergotism
1230:Link to
927:Comments
245:Neutral
134:Analysis
1617:Georgia
1577:Georgia
1511:Malleus
1469:Malleus
1441:Fixed.
1310:Fixed.
732:Fixed.
707:Fixed.
681:Fixed.
656:Fixed.
631:Fixed.
606:Fixed.
565:Comment
394:Bizarre
273:Is it "
189:Comment
126:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
1611:WT:MED
1460:Oppose
1240:Done.
1187:Done.
1124:Like?
788:appear
517:per se
486:raving
275:Aachen
201:images
193:Ucucha
93:delete
1615:Sandy
1575:Sandy
1552:Aiken
1531:Aiken
1527:after
1489:Aiken
1443:Aiken
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683:Aiken
658:Aiken
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540:could
525:scent
522:iride
473:This
444:Aiken
426:Aiken
412:scent
409:iride
260:scent
257:iride
228:Aiken
175:Aiken
158:Aiken
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1622:Talk
1582:Talk
1556:talk
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1493:talk
1485:here
1464:love
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836:Nev1
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