1212:
interpreted in the sense that the authors of any sources are not allowed to have a POV, then only works by completely apathetic people would be allowed. That is complete nonsense. Further, if
Marxists aren't allowed to be cited, then capitalist democrats, e.g., should not be be considered reliable either IMHO. If you are going to object based on NPOV violations please state in which way you feel the article is POV mentioning examples for this POV. McCarthyanist purges are surely not in line with Knowledge policy. On the other hand an academic peer review does not mean that an article is at FA level and cannot be criticized. Why don't you answer people when they find faults in the article, rather than continouisly repeating the fact that some academic liked it, Piotrus? I hope this discussion will get back on topic.--
319:. It's better to make a little stub (1-2 paragraphs) if editors think that a certain terms should be wikilinked but do not exist yet. As for not notable ones, please see the References section and you can see the "ocean of red links" there. Should all of the authors be wikilinked? And as for the blue wikilink, I agree for social movement link, but not to link it twice. Well, it might be not a good example. Take a look at the lead section, there are 2 (if I didn't mistakenly calculate it) links to People's of Republic of Poland. One is enough. —
63:). While I have not received a permission to post the information on who has reviewed the article (I am still waiting for reply on that, for now I can say that he is a professor at a US university and has published a major book on this subject), I believe I am allowed to post an opening sentence from his review emailed to me: "Overall: exhaustively reserarched, thorough in coverage." I have of course addressed all issues from that review as well. Therefore I sincerly believe the article is now FA-level.--
1156:
considered one of the 'Solidarity's priests'; his masses were were people voiced support for the organizations; his death made him a matryr of the organization. Gorby's reforms significantly undermined Polish governement and were an important factor in forcing it to negotiate with the opposition. Your claims about this article being a POV fork are unsupported by anybody - which of course does not make them invalid, but majority of the reviewrs, but I really think you should reconsider your POV here.--
199:. You don't need to link plain English words, such as (picked randomly) morale, dissident, nation, religion, media, etc. You don't have to link multiple times to the same page, such as social movement, People's Republic of Poland, etc. that only makes reader jump to the same page all over again. If you need to point so many times to the same article that contains more details, then consider to use
860:→ uploader claims he has permission to release the picture under no copyright - take it up with him, I tend to assume good faith (especially when we are talking about a logo of an illegal underground organisation which would like for it's logo to be spread as widely as possible and thus likely release it into PD if they cared about such issues at all).
207:
illustrated with one image. The article itself has already more than enough images. I'm baffled also with images of more recent politicians at the end of the article, that has small relationship with the subject of the article. It seems to me when I reached at the end that this article looks like an electorate campaign poster.
1348:
I also find it a wonderful example of how the article is opposed solely by (some, not all) editors from a particular country (or to be more specific, with connection to a particular country, i.e. that used to live or still live in Russia (Soviet Union in the past)). On the other hand, the article is
1284:
When a user objects, s/he is expected to provide specific reasons why. For support, while it is nice, it is not obligatory - it is assummed that a user have read the article and found it confirming to the FA stadnard. See also 'Supporting and objecting'. As I wrote above, I believe we have addressed
1250:
Well, I addressed your objections by going over the article, trying to eliminate the problems you indicated. 14 support votes plus an academic reviewer agree that there are no longer viable concerns; you are of course free to disagree but I am afraid there is only so much that we could do other than
473:
Well, the nature of
Knowledge makes it relativly safe to assume that present means 'up to any major event which happened few hours ago'. Polish historiography splits history of Poland into several chapters, with period after 1989 being the last one; once that changes we will likely see a new article
230:
I have to disagree with the first two points. Red links are important to show what we are missing, although I will see if I can create few more stubs. As for blue links, they are important concepts and should be ilinked either on their first use (if general), or more often if they are relativly rare
206:
I'm a bit concern of using images in the article. Some of the images do not have any relation to the current section. For example, the 25th anniversary of
Solidarnosc image and the US president Ronald Reagen visit to Pope. I know there is one sentence about Reagen's visit, but it is unecessary to be
295:
than other encyclopedias. As for red links, I think we should keep the balance between a positive new article demand and, on the other hand, the red color in a FA text. I suggets that red links (13) can be revised, and we can stub a half of them. I can not see not notable ones. Maybe a few of them
1211:
May I suggest discussing the question of whether the article is good enough for FA rather than Colin Barker's political stance and the number of academics who like the article. There is no list of political ideologies, whose adherents aren't reliable, as far as I know. If the NPOV-rule were to be
983:
The aricle passed academic peer review, I believe the above references are acceptable. 'Most controversial facts' is POV. While I am not fan of marxism, being a historian with a marxist views does not make one unreliable - marxism (or socialism), are not automatically disqualifying like let's say
685:
two images have been deleted (actually, I do agree that all of them were relevant; but to respond to a few independent and coherent remarks, and to reach a consensus, I've tried to select the images that would cause the less quality loss. It turns out that my choice coincides with that of Indon.)
1136:
general article rather than an article about one of Polish trade unions. There is nothing
Solidarity specific in Popieluszko's murder, in the outcry it caused. There is nothing Solidarity specific in authors' lengthy paragraph about Gorby reforms and their effect. And the article is full of such
951:
Writing: Way too many one-two-three line pragraphs (especially at the end). Very choppy style, sometimes hard to follow what's happening because sentences are packed with facts, dates, names. For example, "In
September 1990, Wałęsa declared that Gazeta Wyborcza had no right to use the Solidarity
1131:
as the problems raised there were not addressed, and per Renata's reasons (except for the copyright ones. We have enough wannabe copyright experts and I do not want to join their chorus which I find quite annoying). The article still looks like an eulogy and, most importantly, a POV fork of the
614:
There are many redlinks in the article. Is it that difficult to put a one-liner substub or a redirect of a sort for each redlink in the main body of the article? Also is it really needed to have red wikilinks for each author of a referenced material? Some authors are quite possibly not notable.
1046:
That's your POV. That section takes 16 out of 60kb, so I'd dispute that 'most attention' is devoted to it. The strikes of 80-81 were crucial, as mentioned in various refs, and again, the article passed academic peer review, and the reviewer had no problems with devoting ~20% of space to that
1155:
Because of the reasons you raised in the previous nomination I asked for the academic external peer review. The academic in question did not share your comments (and I particulary asked him to consider the points you raised than). Popiełuszko is relevant to the article, as explained, he was
98:
I am not sure I follow your advice. The first para of the lead notes in the first sentence it was a Polish non-governmental trade union, and in the second and third elaborates on other important characteristics. How more 'closer' to the article's name (at the top of the page) can you
1285:
all objections, safe for Irpen's single claim that the article 'lacks encyclopedicity (sic!) and neutrality'. We have been discussing this since last round of voting, I have yet to find an editor that will agree with his reasoning - and we have found plenty who apparently disagree.--
871:- Polish) and the photos were not marked with his copyright until 1990s. ] → has a copyright tag, but I'd agree it's unlikely the correct one. I am sure there are better (freeer) images of Wałesa out there, feel free to remove it (it's not vital) and/or replace it.
1240:
No you did not. The article lacks encyclopedicity and neutrality as explained in my vote. Your keeping telling me that you addressed them or that my objections are of no merit or perpetual calls to restate them cannot help addressing the article's problems.
1274:
This isn't a vote. Comments including nothing more than the the words support or oppose should be politely ignore. If someone finds that part of the article does not conform with the FA guidelines than that makes a difference even if it's only one
903:
Solidarity's survival meant a break in the hard-line stance of the communist Polish United
Workers' Party (PZPR), and was an unprecedented event not only for the People's Republic of Poland ... but for the whole of the Eastern bloc. → survival?
1018:
in the article on an anti-communist movement are supported by a marxist, it certainly implies that it is not written in favor of the movement. On the other hand, I believe that we do not depreciate it either (no one was concerned about it).
417:
I think these are all my last comments. I'll see responses from the editors before I change my vote. Overall, it's a good article, although at the end it's a bit detoured to the general current Poland's political situation. —
394:
A good encyclopaedic article should be accurate whenever it is read, either now or 20 years later. I found some terms point to an inexact time, which makes this article will be obsolete in the future. Avoid words, such as
757:. All concerns have been addressed. This one is ready to go. I congratulate Piotrus for not getting discouraged after the first failed FA nomination and instead working to turn this into a truly outstanding article.
1073:. I am disturbed by Piotr's insertion of his comments between Renata's arguments, so that it's difficult to distinguish who speaks what. As a result, much of Renata's argument is lost to new readers of this page. --
1128:
160:
Well done. Essentiallly, it wins when compared to many other texts on the subject, encyclopedic ones included. References for any crucial statement. I think we could wish the article gets into a next encyclopedia
48:
28:
654:... Seriously, we need to set a limit on the number of nominations of the same article within one month, especially as concerns about partisan voting on Piotr's articles have not been addressed as yet. --
955:
The article has been copyedited, and editors commenting on the need to improve style had agreed it's sufficient. By all means, feel free to further work on it if you feel it's not up to your stadnards.--
1145:
article or one of its subarticles. I see no rationale in the article in its current form and I think having lots of inline refs and grammar cleaned up is no substitute for the encyclopedicity and NPOV.
650:. The problems are still here: short passages, piles of ill-digested (and unnecessary) images, red links for non-notable authors (have no idea why Piotrus thinks every author he cites is notable),
907:
Solidarity's influence led to the
Revolutions of 1989 ... and to the spread of anti-communist ideas and movements throughout the countries of the Eastern Bloc... → the only cause was Solidarity?
158:. Full. I am particularly glad to note that the external (and professional) peer review encourages me to quote my previous rationale (since the article was yet improved I deleted a part of it).
482:
last section is 'France in Modern Times II (1914-today)'; French Fifth
Republic in the French history tempalte is entitled 'Fifth Republic (1958–present)'. Germany's latest history is found in
852:→ it is not an album cover, it is scan on newspaper, and a special issue at that (modified by signatures and such). I would leave it to the copyright experts to determine if it's free or not.
1331:. This nomination is a wonderful example of how voting along national lines may promote any POV mess to featured status. I see unsubstantiated votes in such borderline cases as abuse of
410:. Unlike previous sections which give a nice flow of historical description, this section contains one or two-sentences paragraphs, that looks like bulleted historical timeline items.
118:
E.g. like that: "The history of
Solidarity, a Polish non-governmental trade union, began in August 1980 at the Gdańsk Shipyards, where Lech Wałęsa and others formed the union". --
1132:
entire
History of Poland for the period of early-70s to end-80s. Take for instance the Popieluszko incident: his photo and two paragraphs around it seem like belong to the
1191:). As for me, not a surprise that the peer review supports the text. Actually, I do not know of reliable sources that would question what is written in the article. --
838:(nevermind legal arguments, how do you know if it was a Polish photographer and it was published without a (c) sign? How do you know (c) was not in the image caption?)
457:
I would not agree to the History of Poland (1989-present), either. When is present? Today when we are writing it? Or tomorrow? Or 10 years later when we read that? —
279:(not too many instances; I'll try to do this immediately; double links too, if any). However, please note that Knowledge is not meant for native English speakers
344:- Good article on interesting and important topic. I think implementation of Brandmeister's and Indon's suggestions would make the article even better.
192:
There are a lot of redlinks. It is useless in FA level to introduce a link that does not exist. Remove redlinks or create a stub article for them.
1037:
General: most attention is devoted to 1 year period - 1980-81. While strikes are fun, I don't think Solidarity is remembered because of them....
490:. Open-ended titles like this seem to be a rule in articles about events which are still ongoing - and history, certainly, has not ended yet.--
17:
254:
As I think the red links in references and further reading should be checked for notability and unlinked if they don't meet the criteria. --
988:
was an academic, sociologist and historian, working at a Western university for 35 years - I believe his publications are quite reliable.--
849:
801:
235:
and see what it suggest we can do differently. As for images, I think they are all relevant; feel free to remove any you think are not.--
552:
a wonderful article and atleast 2 images have been removed. Still, I wished to have received a reply from the nominator for my concern.
1010:. While being a marxist is not a sin, especially in the academic community, it should be stressed that, actually, Renata's argument
563:
Sorry, I thought that I addressed this issue in a reply to another reviewer, and we also discussed this on article's talk page.--
435:
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372:- it's much better than during the last voting (yet probably worse than it could be during the next one... err... only joking)
538:
I'm a little concerned with image clustering, It looks like you tried to fit in as many images as possible into the article.
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602:. Looks much better than the last time. Maybe some formal issues listed above should be applied but generally it is OK. -
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1101:: Good research, comprehensive citations. According illustrations, in spite of some other comments here, I accept them.
1251:
delete the article to satisfy you, and that is not a community apparently wants to do. Feel free to take the article to
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853:
805:
1375:. As I said in the previous nomination - the article meets all the FA criteria, it's comprehensive and well-written.
879:
to address. PolishPD arguments are OT here, bottom line is that I assume good faith and dislike copyright paranoia.--
872:
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1175:
Please reconsider that the alleged "eulogy" of an anti-communist movement that eventually led to the fall of the
865:
817:
474:
on Knowledge. There seem to be no rule against unsing present, and similar format is followed in many articles.
869:
804:→ it is not a free image. Just because I scanned/photographed an album cover I cannot claim copyright in it.
980:... Also, can you put all the cite templates in one line and not make every parameter start on a new line?
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I think we all have concerns about the redlinks in the article. I have made similar comments above. —
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Heroic style - the aricle passed academic peer review, I believe the above phrases are acceptable.--
86:. I suggest a rephrasing with the transferring of what Solidarity is closer to the article name. --
434:
I believe I now addressed those two issues. The word present is left in acceptable context (as in
300:
or something like this (not so sure), but this does not concern the present nomination anymore. --
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for tendentious purposes. This problem needs to be fixed as soon and as promptly as possible. --
43:
I am resubmitting this article to FAC after addressing concerns (layout, copyedit - thank you,
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he was a bellwether of change, and became an important symbol—and supporter—of changes to come
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I believe I have addressed all objections - do correct me if there is something I missed.--
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supported by many editors who are not Polish, and others from that region. Case rested.--
925:
By December 28, 1981, strikes had ceased, and Solidarity appeared crippled. → crippled?
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I only found those above items at the moment. Further comments will be given later. —
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I believe the technical concerns expressed above have been addressed. In particular,
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Its activists were dogged by the Security Service (SB), but managed to strike back
919:...the talks would radically alter the shape of the Polish government and society.
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812:→ not a free image. Permission is needed from Solidarity and not some website.
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article which is in a pity shape. Polish general history stuff belongs to the
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References: Most of the controversial facts are from an article written by a
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195:
Too many unrelated (blue) wikilinks cluttered in the article. Read again
1179:(and the socialist system in Poland) is supported by 22 references to a
864:→ NowCommons with uploader claiming the author gave permission for PD.
769:
Indeed, all issues addressed, very nice. A grand piece of work from
828:→ no rationale. Most of the other images are climed under disputed
283:. Some more complicated expressions with a deeper meaning, as e.g.
723:
There are many citations that do need some technical clean up on.
478:
last section is entitled 'The "Second Republic" (1992-present)'.
1176:
1014:
NPOV nature of the article and encourages the promotion. If the
856:→ it can be a photo of the screen. Do you have proof otherwise?
582:
Oh, my fault. I'm sorry for my comment. Nothing personal. :)
356:
Well-researched, readable article on an important subject.
820:→ no source, how do you know it was a Polish photographer?
1115:
Much work and improvement has occurred. I now support.
60:
56:
1137:examples. Solidarity specific stuff belongs to the
952:logo." - how is this relevant, notable, important?
913:...characterized by long queues and empty shelves.
682:plain English words delinked, no more double links
406:Section Solidarity underground (1982-88) is still
1183:. To some extent this is a nice illustration of
55:to assess the concerns raised by some editors (
8:
916:...Wałęsa scored a public-relations victory.
984:stalinism, nazism or extreme nationalism.
875:→ added rationale. Uff, that was a lot of
862:Image:High noon 4 6 89-Tomasz Sarnecki.jpg
814:Image:High noon 4 6 89-Tomasz Sarnecki.jpg
271:. As for technicalities, I'd suggest that
1353:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1289:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1259:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1225:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1160:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1051:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
992:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
959:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
932:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
883:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
739:Citations have been greatly improved.
721:The article looks complete and ready.
567:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
494:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
442:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
239:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
134:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
103:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
67:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
850:Image:WieczorWroclawia20marca1981.jpg
842:Image:Lech Walesa Solidarity Time.jpg
802:Image:WieczorWroclawia20marca1981.jpg
794:Image:Lech Walesa Solidarity Time.jpg
18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
7:
287:should be kept! Links like this are
900:Some examples of "heroic" writing:
298:Structure of historical Solidarity
24:
1317:. As per Piotrus and Logologist.
854:Image:Jaruzelski przemowienie.jpg
806:Image:Jaruzelski przemowienie.jpg
436:history of Poland (1989-present)
488:History of Australia since 1945
231:- although I will look through
868:→ source added, author found (
709:. All issues addressed now. --
476:History_of_Italy_as_a_Republic
1:
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748:23:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
484:History of Germany since 1945
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226:03:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
175:18:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
94:18:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
78:01:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
27:For previous nomination see
866:Image:Okragly Stol 1989.jpg
848:→ added source, rationale.
818:Image:Okragly Stol 1989.jpg
800:→ no rationale, no source.
296:could be integrated in the
51:. I have also asked for an
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509:In that case, I concur. —
1016:most controversial facts
777:well... he knows why. --
1189:Writing for the "enemy"
275:English words could be
203:or other similar forms.
183:- per technical issues:
1127:per reasons stated at
846:Image:Solidarnosc.png
798:Image:Solidarnosc.png
773:correcting, and from
47:!) raised during the
37:History of Solidarity
824:→ no copyright tag.
822:Image:Lechwalesa.jpg
61:unnecessary POV fork
53:External peer review
1129:previous nomination
858:Image:Dewiza-SW.jpg
810:Image:Dewiza-SW.jpg
291:and make Knowledge
1181:Marxist-Socialist)
877:copyright paranoia
844:→ hasd rationale.
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1143:History of Poland
1134:History of Poland
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480:History_of_France
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1277:Carabinieri
1214:Carabinieri
401:the present
1139:Solidarity
771:Logologist
652:WP:CONTEXT
585:- Tutmosis
555:- Tutmosis
541:- Tutmosis
358:logologist
233:WP:CONTEXT
197:WP:CONTEXT
57:propaganda
1275:person.--
1047:period.--
397:currently
289:desirable
1193:Beaumont
1187:policy (
1021:Beaumont
1012:supports
833:Polishpd
792:Images:
688:Beaumont
604:Darwinek
354:Support.
302:Beaumont
165:Beaumont
1384:Kendysz
1373:Support
1329:Comment
1315:Support
1185:WP:NPOV
1113:Support
1087:Support
1071:Comment
1008:Comment
775:Piotrus
767:Support
755:Support
719:Support
707:Support
670:Comment
627:Comment
612:Comment
600:Support
550:Support
536:Comment
370:Support
342:Support
317:Comment
269:Comment
187:Support
161:contest
156:Support
84:Comment
1338:Ghirla
1333:WP:FAC
1253:WP:AfD
1125:Oppose
1117:Rlevse
1076:Ghirla
1039:Renata
787:Oppose
759:Balcer
657:Ghirla
648:Object
403:, etc.
379:Halibu
293:better
181:Object
99:get?--
1379:Jacek
1358:talk
1319:Visor
1294:talk
1264:talk
1243:Irpen
1230:talk
1177:Party
1165:talk
1148:Irpen
1056:talk
997:talk
964:talk
937:talk
888:talk
636:reply
631:Indon
572:talk
516:reply
511:Indon
499:talk
464:reply
459:Indon
447:talk
425:reply
420:Indon
408:listy
326:reply
321:Indon
273:plain
259:спойт
256:Brand
244:talk
221:reply
216:Indon
139:talk
123:спойт
120:Brand
108:talk
91:спойт
88:Brand
72:talk
16:<
1103:Julo
1091:Julo
779:Ouro
742:Mkdw
727:Mkdw
711:Lysy
639:) —
519:) —
467:) —
428:) —
362:Talk
329:) —
281:only
224:) —
29:here
1198:(@)
1089:.
1026:(@)
693:(@)
438:.--
307:(@)
170:(@)
1241:--
1146:--
1019:--
836:}}
830:{{
789::
686:--
399:,
382:tt
375://
189:.
185:→
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31:.
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