744:. Shen Kuo persuaded and conveyed his ideas and empirical observation to the Chinese public through quill and ink on paper. Pericles is universally viewed as one of the best orators and rhetorical speakers of ancient Athens (and Greece in general), while Shen Kuo's written work is considered one of the most treasured pieces of classical Chinese scientific literature. In either case, verbal or written, ideas are being conveyed. Plus, it might hurt the clarity of the various subjects discussed in the article if I were to take away the quotes. For example, the process of Bi Sheng's movable type printing as described in detail by Shen Kuo. There is no need to rewrite and reword that into prose, as Shen Kuo, the first in history to write of the subject, says it best. It would also be very difficult to convey in prose his deep philosophical approach and personal beliefs, as shown in the quote from the Personal beliefs and philosophy section of the article. I made a somewhat worthy introduction to explain it, but really, that quote sums it up better than the prose could. As for the geological theory and astronomy sections, if I were to convert every sentence of those quotes to prose, I'd basically be saying the same thing, only what is the point of that? That is my input.--
616:, they use an extensive amount of quotes to bolster and clarify the bulk of written prose around them. The vast majority of this article is written prose, while I provide 5 large block quotes and two small sentence quotes of Shen's writing. In comparison, the article on Pericles provides 6 large block quotes of speeches attributed to Pericles. Therefore, I would like a more convincing argument as to why the quotations should be scrapped entirely. If anything the larger ones should just be skimmed down a bit, but not deleted, that is a bit extreme. In regards to more pictures of Shen Kuo, another shame is that the picture provided in this article is one of only three pictures of Shen Kuo available on the internet. Go ahead, type Shen Kuo into google images and you'll see what I'm saying.
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information. I say this because I already know what my university library offers in terms of info on Shen Kuo. I was lucky enough to get Nathan Sivin's book as it is. I checked amazon.com, and from what I saw on the first few choices, Shen Kuo's Dream Pool Essays is not available (instead some book by the same name, by some dude that doesn't really matter, lol). In any case, I will try my very best to address all these concerns. This may take a while.--
378:, the second sentence is overstuffed with jobs that overlap or have no clear definition. We don't need to know in the intro that he was both an astronomer AND the head official of the Bureau of Astronomy. Nor that he was both a military general AND strategist. Or that he was a mineralogist AND geologist. What is an 'Academy Chancellor' or 'State Foundation Viscount'? Shen's pharmacology doesn't seem to be discussed in the text, and could be dropped.--
530:...Mengxi Garden situated in the southeastern corner of Zhenjiang City is where Shen Kuo of the Song Dynasty lived in his later years. The garden was designed and built by Shen Kuo, who wrote "Mengxi Notes". There used to be a small stream named Mengxi in the garden: hence the garden name Mengxi Garden. The garden itself has been ruined, and what remains is Yanjia Lane of Mengxi."
289:, and given a more thorough treatment (this was Shen's most important work, right?). Listing the chapters is unnecessary unless it pertains to further prose. I was left wondering why this book was so important, what languages it had been translated into, how it influenced other notable people, its history after Shen's death, etc. (The
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fall into other categories, another shame). I also added where he died, which was his garden estate mentioned in the article. As far as I know (and by reading Sivin's work), the location of his grave is unknown (which would mean people do not visit). However, I did find out some interesting info from this site here:
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Firstly, I do not like the structure of the last paragraph of 'Career and later life.' To me the quote is not put in any context, and I dislike how it is actually mentioned as coming from the
Dictionary of Scientific Biography. Mentioning books, is in my opinion, meant for footnotes (unless the books
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Well, since he was a writer, it would seem logical that there be examples of the way in which he wrote. It gives the reader the chance to actually read the writing of the person in the context of his life, instead of just discussing his writing. Just because other featured articles do not contained
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Ok, as to your first points about the lead sentence in the
Scholarly achievements section and the mentioning of optics, I shortened the first sentence (getting rid of the list of different studies since it is redundant considering they are listed in the Dream Pool Essays section below) and just got
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In terms of his legacy, Shen Kuo seems to be largely unappreciated (a shame). Looking throughout the internet, there is no information on any monuments erected in honor of Shen Kuo (since monuments of medieval people are mostly erected for the greatest generals and kings and not too many others who
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Could you not break up the sections into smaller chunks? The sheer size of some of them makes the article very difficult to read. In particular, the scholarly achievements section seems like a laundry list of Shen's achievements. Create a section on magnetism, a section on geology, etc, rather than
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This should be pared down to only mention the fields where he had a significant impact. Some could be dropped entirely from the article; what is so important about Shen's work on optics, for example? Just because his biography mentions it, doesn't mean we have to. I would also lose every quotation
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Dear God! You are a cruel, cruel man, Fang Aili! Lol. Ok, to find out all that stuff, I am going to my school's library (I was going there this evening anyway to return books from final papers). Hopefully I can have them order a book, an autobiography on Shen Kuo, that will have all necessary
326:. I thought a few more questions. (I hope you don't hate me!) Did Shen marry? have children? Where did he die? Where is his grave? Do people visit his grave? Are there any monuments to him? Does his work appear in any museums? In short, what is his legacy? How is he remembered today? --
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I just woke up because my stupid dog was barking. So I thought I'd use the time I was awake to add a new section to Shen's article, the "Legacy" section. This was one of Fang Aili's suggestions to me in a message on my user talk page. With the information added on Shen's tomb and the
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mathematician, meteorologist, geologist, mineralogist, military general and strategist, diplomat, notable scholar, astronomer, pharmacologist, hydraulic engineer, academy chancellor, finance minister, state inspector, State
Foundation Viscount, and head official for the Bureau of
160:, but that writing isn't mentioned at all in this article. In general, if something is important enough to put in the lead, it should also be important enough to expand on in the article. If there's anything to expand on, that is, but I believe there is here.
360:. Using Sivin's book, I have tried my best to describe the Dream Pool Essays, its reprinting and new editions over time, as well as translations into foreign languages. I will do more later, but right now I really have to tend to actual school work! Lol.--
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Shen Kuo wrote extensively on a wide range of different subjects and early studies involving meteorology, mineralogy, magnetics, optics, mechanical engineering, as well as art, architecture, divination, medicine, mathematics, astronomy, and many
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in East Asia. In addition, his wiki article is well written (currently holding Good
Article status) and holds true to all of the required standards outlined in the FA criteria. Therefore, I nominate this article to be a Featured Article on
759:"When he wished to print, he took an iron frame and set it on the iron plate. In this he placed the types, set close together. When the frame was full, the whole made one solid block of type. He then placed it near the fire to warm it."
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Yes, the lead intro can be changed, I see that. However, I don't know what you're talking about with the pharmacology not being discussed in the text, when clearly it states in the "Scholarly achievements" section his treatise of the
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Wow! Zeus just found the grave headstone of Shen Kuo online by searching his name in
Chinese characters instead! Please do upload that Zeus, that would be great. That and a description of where it is (most likely in or near
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I understand that Shen is historically significant, but several sections of this article leave me wondering, "Why does this matter?" (Specifically: "Writing style", "Shen's dissertation on the
Timberwork Manual", and "Book
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In the meantime, to shorten the section of
Scholarly Achievements, I moved that large paragraph about all his other works besides the Dream Pool Essays into its own new section at the end, called "Other written
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Thanks for giving this attention, Fang. I will edit the article as needed, but right now I am pressed for time with other things. Hopefully later tonight I will be able to address all of these concerns.--
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from the article. They're too long, break up the article and don't add anything. Knowledge is an encyclopedia, not a primary source. Finally, the article desperately needs more pictures of Shen.--
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Sorry, I have not been able to contribute much since I have been busy lately writing final papers for class while chasing after a girl. Lol. I will try and contribute more as soon as possible.--
785:
I just added information on the location and restoration of Shen Kuo's tomb in Yuhang
District, Hangzhou. This addresses one more of Fang Aili's concerns and suggestions for the article.--
74:, the polymath Shen Kuo (1031-1095) is one of its greatest figures. Furthermore, he is one of the most important figures in the global history of science. As the article states, he was a "
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Quote from the article: "For pharmacology, Shen wrote of the difficulties of adequate diagnosis and therapy, as well as the proper selection, preparation, and administration of drugs".--
628:
I agree with
Pericles here. There is no reason to eliminate the quotations, as they allow us to see ways in which She was viewed by others. As for images, I have some suggestions.
451:
The article is pretty long as it is, but if you want I can add much more prose from the source of Nathan Sivin's book and
Needham's volumes on medical info written by Shen Kuo.--
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rid of the sentence on optics altogether. As to your point about quotations: I am aware that wiki is not a primary source, but if you view many other featured articles, such as
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Ok, I have dramatically reorganized and edited the article according to what you (Fang Aili) specify here and in the message you left on my user talk page,
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It's just one sentence, hidden in an enormous paragraph. Was Shen's contribution in this area important enough to justify mentioning it in the lead?--
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Hey Zeus. I fixed the one Dictionary of Scientific Biography thing by creating a Cref note that leads towards the notes at the bottom for reference.--
558:, I just reorganized the scholarly section according to Nydas' requests. I believe I have fulfilled those demands and suggestions that he made.--
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I also got rid of that worthless sentence you mentioned, as the paragraph reads much smoother now. Thanks for bringing that to attention.--
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has only a small number of short ones. The Pericles quotes are far shorter and seperated from the main text. In addition, Pericles was an
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rushing through. If that makes the article too long, then cut back on unimportant details like what his raised-relief map was made of.--
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Shen Kuo was not only a geologist; his memoirs list "regularities underlying phenomena" in magnetism, astronomy, and engineering.
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You are also dismissing (or forgetting) the preemptive lead into his interest of pharmacology in the Birth and Youth section.--
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were, as the lead states, extensive, why are these writings only mentioned in that one sentence in the lead? In the article on
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Good luck with this. I did a quick search of materials, and did not find anything readily available in the English language.
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691:. Most (all?) featured biographies do not feature the level of quotations this article has. Of pre-modern scientists,
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Sure thing dude. :) I'll add more info on that shortly (I've got the Needham volume in mind for it, too). I won't add
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government-restored garden estate where he once lived, I think I have addressed Fang Aili's concerns fairly well.--
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quotations doesn't mean they should be excluded. I absolutely think the quotes need to be a part of the article.
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Done! There's a brand-new-spanking section of Shen Kuo's writings on Bi Sheng's movable type. Check it out!--
584:, the article is looking better. However, there are still too many overstuffed listy sentences. Stuff like:
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I made a copyedit to parts of the article, fixing grammar etc. I think the article is nearly at FA status.
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Searching with Shen's Chinese writing characters, I found this sculpted bust of him that looks very good:
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link, although I'm not sure what their copyright status is, since I cannot read in Chinese writing.
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All of my concerns in this article have been addressed, and I now believe it meets FA requirements.
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in China to repair large boats out of water, and without his writings on the contemporary inventor
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Yes, I have just added more prose in the middle paragraph to address your concern. Check it now.--
95:) based upon empirical observations of marine fossils found far inland from the ocean along with
79:". A small list of his achievements and credentials include the first in history to describe the
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Thank you for all your hard work. It is a good article--just needs a little more attention. --
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I would say no. This adds nothing to the article. It's for Wikisource, not Knowledge.--
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The level of detail in the quotes is inappropriate considering that they're not even
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themselves are being discussed). I think that you should modify this paragraph.
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That's at least somewhat of a legacy besides the scholarly field...--
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
217:. After a thorough reading of the article I have a few suggestions.
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bodies were spherical (not flat), described the first use of a
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There is one that is very similar, used on this website here:
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This sentence in Scholarly Achievements does not make sense:
570:, I just expanded the sub-section on the magnetic compass.--
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In addition: Pericles persuaded his ideas and conveyed
156:I see that he wrote about him and his invention in
671:I don't think copyright is mentioned on the page.
810:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
480:Great suggestion actually. I will get on that.--
820:. No further edits should be made to this page.
398:on pharmacology, with citation to back it up.--
47:. No further edits should be made to this page.
285:The "Book chapters" section should be renamed
296:The headers and sub-headers don't make sense.
33:The following is an archived discussion of a
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818:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
661:, it can be found from this website here:
513:http://www.seu.edu.cn/EC/english/jsqt3.htm
45:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
293:article itself is not any more thorough.)
91:, created a theory of land formation (
87:, the first to discern the concept of
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757:Shen Kuo. Do we need to know that:
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158:Writings Beside the Meng Creek
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625:. What do you think of them?
115:along with the belief that
35:featured article nomination
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528:THE RELIC OF MENGXI GARDEN
358:User talk:PericlesofAthens
274:The quotations need to be
278:shorter and to the point.
70:. In the long history of
813:Please do not modify it.
40:Please do not modify it.
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148:. If the writings on
107:over time, described
637:Please share! Lol.--
267:. Several comments:
56:20:26, 7 May 2007.
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328:Fang Aili
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117:celestial
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16:<
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