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instances of "the Navy". However, a popular approach to copyediting these days is to leave things alone if a particular style occurs throughout the work and it isn't horrible ... and "the Navy" isn't horrible in this article, when it's clear it means "US Navy"; the justification is that "the Navy" is what it's often called, so it qualifies as a proper noun. But it's not called "the young Navy" often, so I can't see capitalizing that, and I also can't see capitalizing "modern Navy" where it's ambiguous, following a long list of
British ships. - Dank (
643:
ship which was determined by the individual captains during fitting-out. So officially, the
Chesapeake was a 36-gun ship but through a mixture of a hasty redesign, contradictory official documents, and traditions that don't make sense to our modern eyes the ship was termed a '38-gun' ship as a compromise to all these forces, and that's the common way the ship is described all modern sources. Not all sources even mention the officially 36-gun part of the story and Brad explains this pretty clearly in the Armament section.
1336:(2006). Toll uses source documents as a main biblio but his secondary sources include Roosevelt as well as Beach, Chappelle, Cooper, Fowler, and the further reading book by Poolman. It also contains many other books that I've read which were not applicable to this article itself. With that in mind there aren't any large discrepancies between sources in any listed for this article. Toll has on several occasions provided new light on a subject such as the discrepancies over the number of killed and wounded on
461:.": Even though "designed to carry" is not as accurate as "rated" (because she wasn't really designed to carry a specific number, she simply had a rating that allowed her expected armament to be compared to that of other ships), I've asked a couple of intelligent people what the first sentence means, and they couldn't figure it out. Would this work? "
1041:"Quasi-War": Minor point, but reading this section, it is not clear that the war was ongoing while these events took place. It makes the section read oddly in isolation. Could a sentence be added to the beginning to give context to the war? Particularly useful for the non-specialist like myself who does not know anything about this event.
1294:
591:. There is no such thing as a "6th rate" US Navy ship. Applying a Royal Navy definition or pointing to an article about the Royal Navy for more information about a US Navy ship is ludicrous. And I don't care what Fifelfoo thinks just because he reads Aubrey novels. He should stick to referencing uniformity.
1285:
The map showing modern borders in the 'First
Barbary War' section is rather confusing, particularly with its current caption of "Barbary States in southern area of the Mediterranean" (which seems to be outright wrong as most of the countries it depicts didn't exist at the time). If a map showing the
1060:
OK, but not quite sure about this sentence: "The undeclared Quasi-War (1798–1800) arose from the French navy's seizing of
American merchant ships and Chesapeake was launched on 2 December 1799." The two parts of this sentence do not seem obviously connected but seem to be implying the Chesapeake was
757:
A few notes on the capitalization of "Navy". American style guides have become more or less uniform in promoting what they call the "down" style of capitalization, meaning roughly, if you can get away with lowercasing, do it. If I were strictly following those style guides, I'd be lowercasing most
184:
used as a source that has gone dead three times and each time I've found the new link. Of course the link is dead again for the fourth time and I cannot locate it. I do have an offline copy of this PDF which I can mail to anyone wishing to verify the source. The article was wonderfully copyedited by
1440:
I appreciate your high level of sleuthing (something seriously lacking at WP) but I feel this is an issue that likely will never be solved. A lot of source documents themselves contradict each other and there doesn't seem to be any one source that agrees with another regarding guns. When an author
642:
have a rating system, it just wasn't the same as the Royal Navy. There were three ratings of frigates, 44-gun, 36-gun and 32-gun, which determined their complement and how much the officers were paid and had nothing to do with the designed number nor actual number of cannons/carronades/etc. on the
683:
I was able to obtain a copy of that book through my library and it's amounts to no more than a 48 page "travel brochure" on 36-gun and lower rated frigates by an author described in the book as an "amateur historian". More emphasis is placed on artwork and drawings than content. Lardas goes on to
828:
changes the meaning of clause nine of the Naval Act. It's important to note that construction was to begin on all six frigates and continue unless a treaty was reached with
Algiers. The way you've worded it doesn't make that distinction. The clause was inserted into the act to appease those who
1425:
an article entitled: Purcell, Hugh D. "Don't Give Up the Ship!" United States Naval
Institute Proceedings 91 (May 1965) which our library happens to have in the stacks. On p. 85 he says the ship has 49 guns with 4 carronades on the forecastle with a 18-pounder cannon as a chase gun, but
1317:
Is
Theodore Roosevelt's book still considered a reliable source? He's better known for his enthusiasm for the US Navy (and, of course, being the President) than the quality of his scholarship. I'd suggest replacing all uses of this book with references to more recent works, if possible.
572:
This is quickly spiraling out of control. You want to remove "nominally" because no one understands what "nominal" (an accepted condition which is a goal or an approximation as opposed to the real value) means. Removing "nominal" is dumbing down text but I'm willing to live without
925:
Overall I'm not understanding why copyediting issues keep arising when this article was copyedited 3 times by two different editors in the GOCE. It seems like copyediting on WP means the personal preference of the editor instead of cleaning up the style of what's already there.
1422:
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retained her 44-gun rating even after being built and was rerated to a 36 only prior to the War of 1812. However, I've have yet to come across any source that would support this theory. Lardas uses typical sources of which I've read several and none of them support argument.
974:"On 22 June 1807, in what has become known as the Chesapeake-Leopard Affair, a precipitating event of the War of 1812, she was fired upon by HMS Leopard of the Royal Navy for refusing to comply with a search for deserters.": A slightly long sentence?
179:
the malignant frigate of the early US Navy. Bad luck followed me during the building process with all of the controversial and contradicting information about this ship. Hopefully I've done an adequate job of clarifying all the points. There is one
1382:
Infobox: The armament is cited but I've seen in other places she was armed with 28 18-pounders and 20 32-pounder carronades which leaves out any chasers or cannon on the main/spar deck; you might be better off using Danfs' 1807 armament.
1441:
can't cite a source then he is likely making a WAG just to get his publication finished. Additionally I don't really see a purpose in nit-picking over the location of the guns; it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.
703:
Our naval war with France By
Gardner Weld Allen has no mention of this 38-gunning stuff so it must have happened between 1801 and 1812; it should be in a congressional document somewhere related to the pay of Captains.
117:
1597:
Very readable and educational. By this time most "nit-picks" have been taken care of so I can't find much of anything wrong with article. Keep them coming and thanks for contributing your talent to the Ships
Project.
995:"or Secretary Stoddert rerated Congress and Constellation to 38s" The 38s does not look or feel quite right to me. At first, I thought "-s" was an abbreviation, but that might just be me. Feel free to argue.
1132:"The English minister to the United States requested...": Again, forgive the ignorance, but is "minister" similar to an ambassador? I have a mental image of a clergyman! I think clarification would help.
249:
The 97 source has no page numbers on the document itself unless you want the PDF reader page number. The 102 source now has an external link to it but its only a one page archive document from the NYT.
1016:"Chesapeake was launched without ceremony on 2 December 1799": Forgive my ignorance, but what does launching mean in this sense, as it says soon after this "Chesapeake first put to sea on 22 May".
1174:"Confusion and disarray were the state of affairs on the deck of Chesapeake": Slightly odd phrasing here: "was the state of affairs"? Why not just "there was confusion and disarray on..."
1297:
but neither of them are in
English or very appealing visually. If the map is a problem I'd rather just remove it as there is no suitable replacement at present. Or maybe I can sneak in
898:
1206:"Contemporary sources place the number between 48–61 killed and 85–99 wounded.": Does this really need four sources? If nothing else, could they be put in a note to make it tidier?
949:: An excellent article and very readable. Apart from some minor issues below, it is very clear to a non-specialist like myself. Just a few points before I switch to full support.
430:. This went through A-class a long time ago, and I haven't worked on this one before. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (
517:" because "designed to carry 38 cannons" is dumbing down for the reader and it would also really upset the Age Of Sail Nazi's who insist on using "nominally rated".
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borders at the time of this war isn't available, I'd suggest developing a new map by marking a blank map of the southern Mediterranean with the relevant locations.
40:
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I don't really have time to review this article at the moment, so I'm not opposing or supporting the nomination, but I do have a couple of comments:
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1153:"Leopard also got under way and preceded Chesapeake to sea": Was Leopard in port? The previous sentence suggests the squadron was all at sea.
133:
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about "rated". I take it from "Nazis" that you're not going to insist on "nominally rated". How about this for the first two sentences? "
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Ignorable maybe. In "other places" where have you seen this? I'm listing the 1813 armaments since that was her most in/famous skirmish.
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580:; there is no such thing as a "38-cannon ship". All of the sources I've read on these age of sail ships use the word gun; never cannon.
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I'm not sure if you're looking for my approval or disapproval here. If you would like to go with lower case then knock yourself out.
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File:JamesLawrence.jpg - need more information. Is the author known? Where specifically on the source site can this image be found?
614:
as I pointed out before you ran the opinion poll. The explanation on rating vs number of guns is covered in the armament section.
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I moved two references away from the counts. The two references moved, back up the entire paragraph anyway. No need to overcite.
1111:"It took several months to get the vessels ready for sea; they departed individually as they became readied." Ready ... readied.
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File:Onlyshotofchesapeake.jpg There are no page numbers in that Gutenberg source. Instead I gave the Volume, Part and Chapter.
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s crew who were well trained and crack-shots with the guns. Therefore: "In this regard Chesapeake ... was greatly inferior"
1614:
Thanks for your high compliment. It was probably nice to read about something other than a battleship for a change ;)
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I have six sources that mention the number of killed and wounded and not one of them agree with each other. In this
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I'm just saying what the style guides say to help you make the call. If you don't care, I'll lowercase. - Dank (
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Not trying to nit-pick; its a mystery to me why the sources we use don't agree (and don't cite their sources).
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There was only the instance of a missing hyphen in the lead. I fixed it; Quasi-War is now standard throughout.
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This matches the other org. frigate articles, but both tonnage & displacement? And no unit of tonnage?
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I'm going to have to pour water on this "3 ratings of frigates" theory because that passage was found in
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launched in response to the war. If this is the case, I think a stronger word than "and" is required.--
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My only quibble is that I think that there should be a comma after "38-gun" in the opening sentence.--
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I've made one tweak myself (see above). Thanks for the prompt response, switching to support now. --
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after her capture. Wherever a more recent book reveals new information I've made sure to note it.
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272:: The links in the references all worked for me, though some were more reluctant than others.
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I've had a go at fixing this sentence, but please revert if it is wrong or does not work. --
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doesn't need a hyphen? Per the usual dictionaries, "quasi" isn't an English word. - Dank (
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Thanks for the support and review. There are 3 more to go including the main article.
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Where does the name of the ship come from? (At first, I thought it said "cheapskate"!)
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See if you can do something about all the short sentences in the first paragraph of
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Be consistent in whether you provide volume number for citations to Maclay and Smith
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1231:"Chesapeake went into ordinary..." Could this be explained for non-specialists? --
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Here's the 1825 Naval Register's official ship list w/three 'classes' of ships.
246:{ instead of ( is a habit from typing templates all the time; fixed. (good eye)
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says 15 18-pounders, 10 32-pounder carronades and a 12-pounder carronade as a
729:; not the time period or ship we're interested in but at least its something.
1179:
This is to point out the different "state of affairs" on both ships. Whereas
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360:"Mediterranean Sea area of operation" - can this be clearer and more precise?
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is broken (lucky 13=P) as one of its tag attributes aren't closed. The other
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38s was out of continuity with the rest of the article. Changed to 38 guns.
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Was hoping for help finishing up, but Godot seems to be late. Plodding on.
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Its a two sentence paragraph, that's all; I couldn't think of anything.
887:"In this regard Chesapeake ... was greatly inferior.": In which regard?
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of 38 cannons, although the actual number of cannons varied." - Dank (
1407:(and I'm not sure what that is...) for a total broadside of 605 lbs.
1529:
In the C vs. Shannon section, add a sentence to the lead paragraph.
410:
where I've placed a PD-art tag. Thanks for spotting the pic issues.
243:
The date was there as an editing reminder no longer needed. Removed.
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
1354:
And noting that Fowler (1984) and Beach (1986) also use Roosevelt.
287:
Just as sure as the sun rises someone else will report it as dead.
213:
Why does the first dictionary include a date and the others do not?
335:
Thanks for the fix but I still blame it on the Chesapeake Curse.
979:
Entire middle paragraph of the lead section redone for clarity.
216:
Why do some citations use curly brackets instead of parentheses?
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s crew were confused and running amuck not knowing what to do.
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In regard to the entire content of the paragraph that explains
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had a well-trained and organized crew (mentioned previously),
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the GOCE just recently. Be careful not to allow the malignant
1089:
That works very nicely. Thanks for the fix and the review.
1332:
The most recent book I'm aware of and have here is Toll's
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File:USSChesapeake.jpg has been updated with a PD-art tag.
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Featured article candidates/USS Chesapeake (1799)/archive1
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1 x 12-pounder (5.5 kg) carronade (Guessing the roles...)
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796:Do you have any sources that will convince me that
240:
Found one instance of missing volume number; fixed.
1655:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
726:are both listed as second class, 36-gun frigates
882:USS_Chesapeake_(1799)#Chesapeake–Leopard Affair
864:USS Chesapeake (1799)#Chesapeake–Leopard Affair
222:USS Lake Erie website is a work, not an author.
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article candidates
1557:somewhere (C vs. Shannon or 'cursed' paragraph)
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1661:No further edits should be made to this page.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
8:
858:Support for half of it on prose and MOS per
662:American Light and Medium Frigates 1794–1836
366:File:Onlyshotofchesapeake.jpg - page number?
1426:unfortunately, he didn't cite his sources.
843:Sorry about that; I've changed it. - Dank (
18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
1247:"Ordinary" = reserve. Changed to reserve.
383:Changed caption a bit. Hopefully clearer.
122:
484:, designed to carry 38 cannons." - Dank (
958:Clarified in the construction section.
125:
115:
7:
1489:18 x 32-pounder (14.5 kg) carronades
445:was a nominally rated 38-gun wooden-
884:; I think the flow could be better.
1289:There are two other maps I found:
628:Done per your suggestion. - Dank (
24:
1513:I need specific sources to cite.
1486:28 x 18-pounder (8 kg) long guns
829:disagreed with building a navy.
558:. She was assigned an armament
589:Rating system of the Royal Navy
408:File:JamesLawrenceATcommons.jpg
862:, down to where I stopped, at
1:
1560:Nice work - only two to go!
1301:. Think anyone would notice?
576:"cannon/s" are always called
1497:2 x 12-pounder stern chasers
531:Okay, I asked a question at
1299:File:Barbary coast 1983.jpg
301:I've fixed the link to the
31:featured article nomination
1678:
587:have a rating system like
297:13:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
282:12:51, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
262:13:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
232:10:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
199:00:27, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
166:00:27, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
1500:1 x 18-pounder bow chaser
1023:ship naming and launching
1658:Please do not modify it.
1645:17:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
1624:10:13, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
1608:15:37, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
1584:21:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
1570:19:07, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
1542:21:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
1523:21:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
1465:13:51, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
1451:10:13, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
1436:20:37, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
1417:16:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
1396:21:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
1379:Some ignorable comments:
1291:File:Barbarie - 1806.jpg
936:03:13, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
907:00:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
739:14:19, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
714:22:13, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
699:18:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
653:16:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
173:Ok here it is. Bad Luck
36:Please do not modify it.
1364:09:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
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1311:08:02, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
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1137:Changed to ambassador.
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778:12:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
764:22:36, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
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594:The solution is still:
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527:12:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
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420:10:26, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
393:22:38, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
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345:09:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
327:15:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
1555:William Sitgreaves Cox
945:Comments, inclined to
901:are my edits. - Dank (
638:The US Navy certainly
404:File:JamesLawrence.jpg
206:- spotchecks not done
659:Lardas, Mark (2008).
596:"was a 38-gun wooden-
270:Added sources comment
219:Ref 97, 102: page(s)?
189:get the best of you.
72:USS Chesapeake (1799)
65:USS Chesapeake (1799)
501:was a 38-gun wooden-
1532:Add what sentence?
895:standard disclaimer
860:standard disclaimer
533:WT:MIL#FAC question
56:06:25, 27 May 2011
665:. Oxford: Osprey.
610:United States Navy
556:United States Navy
515:United States Navy
482:United States Navy
459:United States Navy
311:site for volume 13
1423:this bibliography
252:Lake Erie fixed.
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1334:Six Frigates
1333:
1279:
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944:
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942:
916:
903:push to talk
890:
868:push to talk
857:
845:push to talk
802:push to talk
784:push to talk
760:push to talk
723:
719:
685:
661:
639:
630:push to talk
595:
584:
583:The US Navy
577:
564:push to talk
538:
536:
497:
495:
486:push to talk
464:
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432:push to talk
428:Prose review
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355:Image review
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274:Brianboulton
269:
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139:Citation bot
69:
54:SandyGeorgia
49:
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28:
1158:Clarified.
1116:Rewritten.
319:Smallman12q
1401:This table
1338:Chesapeake
1185:Chesapeake
1021:Linked to
866:. - Dank (
686:Chesapeake
671:1846032660
539:Chesapeake
498:Chesapeake
465:Chesapeake
442:Chesapeake
371:Nikkimaria
317:look fine.
224:Nikkimaria
187:Chesapeake
176:Chesapeake
1493:Spar Deck
1265:Sarastro1
1233:Sarastro1
1077:Sarastro1
1063:Sarastro1
798:Quasi-War
679:183265266
1600:Cuprum17
1482:Gun Deck
1280:Comments
720:Congress
600:, three-
546:, three-
505:, three-
472:, three-
449:, three-
134:Analysis
50:promoted
1630:Support
1592:Support
1405:top gun
1374:Support
1181:Shannon
947:Support
917:Shannon
891:Support
608:of the
606:frigate
585:did not
554:of the
552:frigate
513:of the
511:frigate
480:of the
478:frigate
457:of the
455:frigate
315:volumes
307:archive
126:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
1320:Nick-D
1046:Done.
604:heavy
602:masted
598:hulled
560:rating
550:heavy
548:masted
544:hulled
509:heavy
507:masted
503:hulled
476:heavy
474:masted
470:hulled
453:heavy
451:masted
447:hulled
93:delete
899:These
824:This
578:gun/s
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1641:talk
1620:talk
1616:Brad
1604:talk
1580:talk
1576:Brad
1566:talk
1562:Kirk
1538:talk
1534:Brad
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1392:talk
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1303:Brad
1293:and
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1217:Brad
1213:edit
1196:talk
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826:edit
816:talk
812:Brad
774:talk
770:Brad
735:talk
731:Kirk
722:and
710:talk
706:Kirk
695:talk
691:Brad
676:OCLC
667:ISBN
649:talk
645:Kirk
620:talk
616:Brad
537:USS
523:talk
519:Brad
496:USS
463:USS
440:USS
416:talk
412:Brad
389:talk
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228:talk
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158:Brad
106:logs
80:talk
76:edit
640:did
573:it.
52:by
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