420:
source. This is the same reason why we don't accept original interpretations of poetry, plays, novels for those wikipedia articles--its original research which should be done by critics, not by a random editor. There is no veracity in your personal interpretation, or any personal interpretation, if it isn't backed up by being published in a
Reliable Source. The lack of high quality scholarly reliable sources in video game review at the moment, or a concept of canonicity in video games, means you can get off lightly and rely more heavily on lower quality RS; but the interpretation of primary sources is the job of professionals and scholars publishing in reliable secondary sources, not wikipedia.
673:. The problematic phrases are "North American version", "Squall, Rinoa, and Seifer" (please describe the characters briefly, rather than naming them), "the" (in "shot of the party"), "Balamb Garden", "Selphie, Squall, and Zell", "early boss called "X-ATM092"", "Zell is preparing to summon the Guardian Force Shiva to do ice damage to the enemy". That last phrase has an additional problem in that it repeats the caption; please see
269:"ffshrine.org, members.tripod.org" are both used only in linking to translations, with the actual magazine issue in question already linked to. As for the rest I'm looking through them now. RPGamer however should be fine (they are referenced in a few books from a quick Google Books search, and do fall back on Crave Online as a host).--
594:@Fifelfoo: there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the work itself as a source for plot summary and such. As far as I can tell, all the primary-source refs are in the Story section. Unless you can provide examples of references to primary sources for things other than in-game elements, I see nothing actionable in your concerns.
371:
Since *when*, exactly? More often than not you end up stuck with an article unattributed to a particular staff member, but written by the staff. Marking the end result as staff has always been previously acceptable for such items that I've seen before, since it shows the reader clearly it wasn't just
642:
I think I've added every bit of valid reception I can...there's a lot more out there of course, but it's either just repeating what everyone else is saying, or more related to other aspects (such as an analysis of Squall, or why
Quistis is boinkable. That stuff belongs in the character list anyway).
483:
Forgive me but I really can't take that article seriously. One way or another the information behind a game's development comes from the people behind it, whether it be a book by the people behind the item or an interview. You're effectively arguing that because you feel the horse's mouth might be
304:
Kung Fu Man has already fixed the PC Reception and citation problems, dude is fast... The merchandise section still needs refs, as noted by Blue. I don't think we need more than a sentence or two about the PC development- they just ported the game, there wasn't much "development" as it had already
696:
Fixed? I will never understand why we try to make ALT text describe the way the image looks the most while describing what is actually in the image the least. Surely this is counterproductive, given that a textual description of visual stimuli to blind people is useless. And why does it matter if
617:
Primary sources are not inappropriate for using as reference to the game's plot. If there were scholarly articles about the plot, as I'd expect for something like
Shakespeare's plays or the like, I'd expect more use of secondary sources, but this is a JRPG; one may be lucky that secondary sources
471:
The same reason why I wouldn't cite a government about its own intentions and purposes; or a political party on the value of its ideology. Reluctantly, with care, where no other sources exist. Reasons to distort the actual development process include: creative differences, marketing, unexpected
443:
It's being worked on, but at some point sources more or less start repeating themselves. There's only so many times you can cite "we do/don't like this" for the same items. For the record I don't think the VG project finds
Yahtzee the most reliable of sources, nor have I seen it fly in many FACs
419:
I don't know you, or any of the editors, who made their interpretive appreciations of final fantasy 8 in writing the article. This is why direct use of primaries are bad. There is no simple way to interpret a primary source, which is why I'm asking below for more scholarly appreciations of the
166:
It looks to me like these should be easily fixable problems. The merchandise section can have references added or be trimmed (it doesn't seem super-important anyway), and as for the PC release, only a few sentences need to be added (a short paragraph, max, saying something like "A PC version was
149:
I am nominating this featured article for review because the article fails 1(b) - it fails to mention any
Development or Reception content regarding the Windows version release. Also the Merchandise section has only one Reference, the rest of the three paragraphed section is unsourced. —
535:
I've left responses, but in all honesty to seem to be new to the handling of the FAC process on the whole when it comes to video games (and possibly literature items). I would suggest checking FACs around the website as your notions on primary sources in this regard are well in left
817:
Hmm. Seems like the only thing that is really left to do is that
Merchandise section- PC reception has been added and the weaker sources replaced. Fifelfoo disagrees with the use of quotations as refs in the plot section, but he's the only one; they are commonly used in VG FAs.
668:
but it has some problems. Some phrases in the alt text generally do not add to the description of the visual aspects, and are not verifiable by a non-expert who sees only the images. These names need to be moved to the caption and/or removed as per
231:. There's a ref in the lead, which should be removed as the content's already in the body of the article. There are also a few unreliable sources: FLAREgamer, ffshrine.org, members.tripod.org, Empire arcadiA, and fs.finalfantasytr.com. Also,
415:
I'm sorry but that's not the way that works. In this case any secondary source is going to be an interpretation of the primary, which is why heavy care is emphasized by
Knowledge (XXG). That is a baffling and, well, ridiculous statement.
618:
even go farther than the first few hours of gameplay (in a 40+hr game). The problem with primary sources is aleved by the inclusion of quotes in the references so that one can verify the summation (not interpretation) of the work. --
339:
Citation of corporate authors (Companies, Staff, etc.) needs to be regularised. Square isn't an editor, its a corporate author. Website staff can simply be identified as for a news source, or the
Company for an official
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would hurt the visually impaired), or the other details are present only in the alt text (in which case the sighted wouldn't be told the details, which would hurt the sighted). Anyway, thanks for improving the alt text.
719:
Most visually impaired people are not completely blind; and most blind people (as well as most visually impaired people) were formerly sighted and can interpret text that contains imagery (they're impaired because of
83:
401:
Again, since when has this been a problem for FACs for material related directly to the game? You don't need a website to reitterate what's stated in the game's text before you can cite it after all.
965:
Looks good, except that on my browser, the text squeeze between the first image (in the
Gameplay section) and the infobox is awful, down to one word of text per line. Can that image be relocated?
736:
is that alt text should describe only what you can see in the image, and shouldn't contain other details: either those other details are covered in the caption or other adjacent text (in which case
468:
I'm not sure where you mean here. You mean for development information? If so that's perfectly acceptable for FAs: they're the guys behind the bloody thing, why *wouldn't* you cite them directly?
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My concerns with the article are that the article is written to an unnecessary degree from primary and self, leading necessarily due to the nature of interpretation in the humanities (see:
283:
Flaregamer might be harder to get rid of, that information is in the FF8 Ultimania and I currently lack it. I could cite the book as a whole but would preferably cite pages if possible...--
404:
The use of primary sources in general is the invitation to OR and synthesis. This is a challenge to prompt a response indicating the editorial care displayed by the article editors.
444:
unless cited very carefully. It's like trying to cite the
Nostalgia Critic: there's his actual opinion, then there's his gimmick, which might be two very different things.
697:
it's "not verifiable by a non-expert who sees only the images"? That's why it's in the article that is trying to inform the reader/viewer of these facts, n'est pas? --
352:
I'm kind of concerned about the quotes in the references, but I realise they're location information for a difficult medium to identify the location of a proof.
472:
success, unexpected failure, minimizing problems. This is a challenge to prompt a response indicating the editorial care displayed by the article editors.
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released on ____, here's how it did commercially and critically"), and you yourself have already dug up and shared a few sources at the talk page, section
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are sufficient. I also think the prose in the reception section is kinda confusing to read, with all the direct quotations; it seems like overkill.
368:"Citation of corporate authors (Companies, Staff, etc.) needs to be regularised. Website staff can simply be identified as for a news source."
378:
Square Electronic Arts, ed (1999). Final Fantasy VIII North American instruction manual. Square Electronic Arts. pp. 20, 24, 36. SLUS-00892GH.
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504:"also this cite needs work, the square brackets: "^ a b c "Final Fantasy VIII". Electronic Gaming Monthly]] (123): 188. January 1999."
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also this cite needs work, the square brackets: "^ a b c "Final Fantasy VIII". Electronic Gaming Monthly]] (123): 188. January 1999."
643:
Merchandising still needs some attention, and there's really not much at all for the PC version (there's one ref I need to check).--
194:
Agree with above: what issues are there are easily fixed and need not a full FARC to have fixed, just some talk page discussion. --
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495:. Knowledge (XXG) is not a forum for the analysis of texts. Knowledge (XXG) is a tertiary work written out of secondary works.
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Suggested FA criteria concern are citations, comprehensiveness, quality of citations. Also note the recent change to
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Otherwise I'm quite glad at 2c, there's a recognition that IGN is a news-service but Gamespy is simply a website.
764:: Is there an image out there that could be used to describe the setting, i.e. a map or a picture of the world?
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Alright, I went and fixed up the merchandise section. I think everything listed above has been fixed, so-
465:"Similarly at 1c, SELF published material. Square publishing about Square is not particularly reliable."
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Similarly at 1c, SELF published material. Square publishing about Square is not particularly reliable.
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True. But until we get the Journal of Humanities Video Game Studies... we get it where we can.
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Surely there are some appreciations or critical receptions by now? Yahtzee or more academic?
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For 1c, though, I'm rather concerned about the use of PRIMARY sources (the game itself)
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While I want to tackle the other points you brought up, this one really stood out:
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Gotta echo the statements. We need to hold a review for two missing things? -
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is frowned upon as a source in FAs, but I'm not gonna complain as I use
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The IGN is slightly redundant, as its obvious from the publisher / work
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Square Co.. Final Fantasy VIII. (Square EA). PlayStation. (1999-09-09)
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Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at
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in terms of 1a. "previously-visited" needs the hyphen removed.
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lying, we should get the information from people citing
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Now, he can figure out the length of things easily.
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Featured article review/Final Fantasy VIII/archive1
1005:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
808:Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
77:Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy VIII
1011:No further edits should be made to this page.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured article review
381:This source is correctly cited as an author
577:) to original research and mis weighting.
521:Other than those, the 2c / 1c looks good.
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324:I'm concerned about the following items:
790:(1c) requiring "high-quality" sources.
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article review
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458:No, we get it from reliable sources.
375:This source is authored, not edited
372:a fan submitted piece of material.
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239:as a source myself. :P And isn't
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899:03:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
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774:21:50, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
751:23:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
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631:14:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
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922:03:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
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1008:Please do not modify it.
213:The New Age Retro Hippie
36:Please do not modify it.
507:It's being worked on.--
142:WikiProject Square Enix
138:WikiProject Video games
56:02:45, 18 January 2010
31:featured article review
732:, etc.). The point of
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