1527:
board, for instance; the number of polesitters is now explicitly mentioned, so is how many times they have won from pole. These are the two most important statistics as they highlight the importance of pole position, I'm not sure the other statistics (although interesting) should be placed in the lead, bombarding the reader with a plethora of stats which are not exactly relevant to the table would not be right in my opinion. Thank you for the source as well, it has been a great help.
1027:
I guess it's fine in the main table. But I do think it should be removed from the by nationality table, where there are two plausible ways of measuring it. Although at a glance the number of pole positions seems the obvious way to rank, as a Brit I'm more likely to say that "we've had more drivers on
1346:
at least two more things should be added before this would be ok: 1) for very many years the pole winner got a point; mention it; 2) since it is said there is an advantage to being the pole winner, it should be listed exactly in how many of these times the pole winner ended up winning the race (i.e.
1006:
Given that the tables are sortable, I don't quite understand the point of the rank columns. I'm sure if I was updating I'd be cursing every time Vettel or Kubica set a Pole. This is especially true of "By nationality"; let the reader decide whether Brazil or
America are second, Italy or Germany are
731:
Adding the manual sort causes the figures with the "=" in it causes the template to link to the number I put in the sort function without including the "=", look at the diffs if you're not sure what I mean, any suggestions? Preferably I would like to do away with the "=" but what does everyone else
1526:
The whole point of wikipedia is to improve articles within a consensus, I'm not saying we have reached a consensus here, but to say you suggestions have been dismissed is ridiculous, they've been debated and reviewers have come to the conclusion that some should not be included, some were taken on
1153:
This flatly contradicts what Golbez said, but I think the first paragraph should be re-extended to mirror the list of drivers. Although admittedly personal taste, I doubt that anyone would oppose a list solely for a bit too much context. By contrast, under the current criteria it would be valid to
1110:
I also think there is scope for images in the "By nationality" section. It should be possible to get pictures of
Schumacher, Senna and Clark on the page at least. I say Clark over Prost because Britain tops "By nationality" on both measures, and because Prost, Senna and Schumacher all raced in the
849:
I don't think this is necessary, at the end of the day they can still sort by name it's not like it's inconvenient for the country to be in front of the name, plus I feel it does not look right to have the country after the name, for me it does not signify the nationality of the person as clear as
560:
An example of emphasis (or indicator) would be to denote top-scorers in bold in a list of players. In short, using bold is bad in articles but irrelevant in tables. And no, bold does not go against accessibility issues. Concerns of WP:BOLD stems from before the current "emphasis in tables" bit was
254:
Speaking of the notes column... good lord. You don't need to 1) link to the same thing 80 times, especially 2) with 80 different references. Give us a single general reference and you can probably drop the entire column. Seriously. Anyone who isn't included in the general ref, just put a reference
1361:
I question whether sources would exist for that statistic. I may be wrong though. If it is done, it would need to be the number of wins from pole. An alternative statistic (one that I believe could be reliably sourced in the lead) would be the overall number of races won from pole, expressed in
229:
Likewise, you say "previously a driver was only allowed a single lap", that wasn't always the case, the way this is written it sounds as if there have only been two systems. Don't specify one over the others, that's not really necessary. I would at least drop the sentence after 'previously' and
951:
This certainly will be a pain, I really don't see the point in the names coming before the country, for me it makes more the nationality of the driver more ambiguous, at the end of the day the rader can clearly see the names, so I don't understand what difference it makes if they come first.
475:
Er, really? I was under the impression any text styling by itself was not allowed for accessibility purposes (i.e. signifying data solely through styling). It appears I was wrong, screenreaders seem aware of italics. So, uh, NapHit, sorry, but also, colors alone? Bad. :P The whole point of
1254:
On that note, any chance of restoring the Clark image to the aforementioned section? Moving Senna's image to the lead has really improved the presentation at the top, and on balance he belongs there. But taking Clark out altogether has left a really noticeable area of
314:
The lead is supposed to be a summary of the list. You mention things in the lead, like driver age, which do not occur in the list, and things that are in the list, like active drivers, most poles, drivers to win championships, etc. are not in the
666:
Ouch; that was caused by my suggestion of adding "=". Now the
Javascript doesn't realize it's a numeric field, so it's sorting alphabetically. Do you think they should take out the =, or go through and annoyingly add manual sorting to each cell?
943:
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The general reference is only accurate up to the end of 2009. Is there a second reference that we can use that just covers 2010? At the start of next season we could then presumably remove the 2010 reference, and add an equivalent for
218:
The opening graf goes into too much detail, I think. We don't need to know what 'formula' means. We don't need to know about the championship. Simply establish what
Formula 1 is and why it's important (the first sentence accomplishes
1012:
I think this information is very useful, as the list is a ranking, not to give the rankings would be foolish in my opinion, you wouldn't leave the rankings out of a league table would you? So I'd rather the rank column stay.
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356:"Historically there have been a number of different qualifying systems, previously each driver was only allowed a single lap to set their qualifying time" - run-on sentence with grammar issues. Suggest the following:
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I've given the lead a mini-copyedit and done some reorganisation. Apart from my next bullet point, I'm happy that the lead now meets the FL criteria, but that is not to say that it cannot be improved further.
546:
But it's not being used for emphasis, it's being used to communicate information, which, I believe, goes against accessibility issues. (Also, what would be an example of this emphasis in tables?) --
845:
I think that the driver name should be in the first column as that is what the readers are after, not the nationality of the driver, it would look at lot better if they were swapped around.
1511:
Still opposing: essentially all my suggestions have been dismissed and since I put more work in finding those refs than the editors on dismissing my suggestions I won't bother expanding.
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I'm not sure the external links are necessary, as they have nothing specifically to do with pole positions. If people want to find a link to F1 or the FIA, they can go to their articles.
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1307:, but it's far better defined than football, as the FIA finds the nationality of the driver out directly from the driver, rather than us relying on completely external sources. --
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The difference is that this isn't a list of countries that have achieved pole position. Given that we have flags for nationality but not name, I'd say if anything it's the
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These two sources are the only ones I could find I think there fairly reliable they get updated often and the whole information is not available elsewhere unfortunately.
1303:
Country :) In F1 everyone represents the country of their passport (which is actually a very sensible criterion when you think about it). As with football there is the
1243:
I recognise that there's a hint of bias here, but something should be added to the lead to cover the "By nationality" section. I'll leave how it's done open-ended, but
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382:
All in all, there are too many problems with this list for me to consider supporting at this time. Once these are corrected, I can give a more detailed review. —
1486:
I really think you only need the first statistic the other ones are not as notable, added the number of polesitters and their wins I think that is sufficient.
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Historically, there have been a number of different qualifying systems; previously, each driver was only allowed a single lap to set his qualifying time.
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driver's wins from pole, simply the overall statistic of how many polesitters have won their race. That's more telling than any individual rating. --
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Other things missing: explicitly stating the number of people that have achieved a pole position(93); Senna holds the record for consecutive poles (
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The date at the top of the first list is sufficient; remove the second. Also, remove the unnecessary sentence fragment above the list by country.
1268:. Would you like me to work on it over the coming days so that other clubs (such as Liverpool, or indeed foreign clubs) can make good use of it?
236:
Telling us how many races have been won from pole out of the total number of races would be very useful in communicating the importance of pole.
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1550:"to determine the drivers positions on the starting grid." "drivers" → "drivers'". Subtle change, I know, but grammatically it's needed.
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says "Use italics, not boldface, for emphasis in article text." Whereas bold is specifically prohibited, italicization is not. —
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pole than any other country" than "drivers from my country have finished on pole more often than drivers from anywhere else". --
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Sorting is now fixed. Unfortunately I don't have time to review this in full so I'll just strike my comment. Best of luck,
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Ideally the detail on the different qualifying systems used should be expanded. I accept this may prove unfeasible though.
476:
accessibility is not to rely on beautification alone, you have to have some symbol. But apparently italics counts? Huh. --
1175:
In the third paragraph, it might be worth mentioning the total number of pole positions, before going into the specifics.
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No need for a see-also section; we have an overwhelming template which publicises all remotely relevant articles for us.
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Yeh the colours have all got symbols next to them should have made that clearer, so I think the issue is sorted
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expand the sentence to sound better, like maybe saying how long the current knockout system has been in place.
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You might want to populate the "Last Pole" column for the people with only one, so that it sorts properly.
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Comment: Do I really need more coffee, or does this list not ever tell us what a "polesitter" actually
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946:, I understand what a pain this will be. But I really strongly feel that the names should come first.
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Personally, I think the Notes column should be changed to
Sources. You aren't linking to footnotes.
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Additionally, if there were "a number of qualifying systems", then why is only one explained here?
865:
also vettel is =23rd in the standings and montoya is also but has one more pole than him. error.
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I won't be able to reference the different systems so I'd say it would be best to lave it out.
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Well in football we use the historical countries. West
Germany for the first German perhaps?
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I can't find a reference for the figure, so unfortunately I'm going to have to leave it out.
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I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it is close to the featured standard.
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oppose at the moment if these furfilled or good response will change to neutral or support.
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Side note: Heh, until last weekend, Schumacher had a *50 pole* lead over Alonso. Just damn.
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is necessary so that the lead can be considered a summary of all major parts of the body.
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You need to explain what pole position is (first row, in front) and why it's important.
1400:? Ignore the other one as I confused it with the fastest lap bonus given in the 50s.
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Probably manual sorting each cell. Sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear.
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I agree with this and have added some of the first paragraph from the drivers list.
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People probably won't be happy about using only bold to signify current drivers.
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Wouldn't it be the same as the number of races? Someone has to start first. --
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Removing the columns in the reflist would provide scope to do something along
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Changed it all to colours now, didn't realise you couldn't use italics either
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Sorting is knackered. Press the "Rank" button three times to see what I mean.
528:: Use boldface in the remainder of the article only in a few special cases: "
226:
qualifying style. Maybe as simple as "Drivers currently have to compete..."
1398:
List_of_Formula_One_driver_records#Double_.28pole_.26_win_in_same_race.29
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http://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/divers/pole-victoire.aspx
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drivers got a pole in their first race; Senna and
Schumacher have got
1436:
while Prost and
Schumacher have 7; Mansell has the record in a year (
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Ok I've had a go at these comments, think it's in better shape now.
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
1574:
No need for two links to the 2010 Singapore Grand Prix in the lead.
986:
I've relented and the names are now before the driver's country.
422:
Quick comment: Switching bold for italics doesn't fix a thing. --
129:
Featured list candidates/List of
Formula One polesitters/archive3
124:
Featured list candidates/List of
Formula One polesitters/archive2
119:
Featured list candidates/List of Formula One polesitters/archive1
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third, or indeed whether they would like to rank them at all.
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Appears people don't re-read the guidelines that often. From
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Looks good to me either with italics or the symbols as is. —
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Shamelessly off-topic. I noticed that you've had a look at
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next to their name rather than devoting a column to it.
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The next graf needs to make it clear that this is the
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Removed the rankl column from the nationality table
325:"traditionally contest qualifying" - awkward wording
245:
Might want to add "=" to the ranks of tied drivers.
375:The "Notes" are not notes, but references. Change.
1630:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1362:numbers and/or as a percentage of total races. --
318:Do not use bold as an indicator in the table per
1289:drive-by: what does the country column signify?
581:your addition to the MOS of "Emphasis in tables"
310:I was edit-conflicted in providing this review.
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1636:No further edits should be made to this page.
1236:I should note that I am close to supporting.
41:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Featured list candidates
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
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532:" so bold is perfectly acceptable. Luckily.
332:(remove hyphen) and link on first occurrence
242:There's a stray "USA" in the country column.
732:think?. Finnish name problem is now fixed.
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754:is designed (no links). You probably need
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1585:What makes F1 complete a reliable source?
1562:Remove comma after "at the end of which".
772:for just the instances with = will work.
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Featured list candidates
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797:was the one I needed it's fixed now.
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322:, change to italics or use a symbol.
1588:Also, what makes StatsF1 reliable?
1414:This looks like it is good enough:
687:Problems with Finnish names too. —
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1116:added images of senna and clark.
342:, as this is a compound adjective
328:"pole-position" - this should be
338:"20 minutes session" should be
72:List of Formula One polesitters
65:List of Formula One polesitters
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970:that are "more ambiguous". --
1213:Hope those help. Regards, --
1154:oppose for a bit too little.
746:That is because that is how
451:@Golbez: How do you figure?
405:addressed your comments KV5
345:"15 minutes session" - same
1396:Where was this taken from:
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1440:; Schumacher got poles in
940:F1's biggest featured list
353:"seven slowest card" - eh?
348:10 minute session" - same
1633:Please do not modify it.
36:Please do not modify it.
31:featured list nomination
1452:poles in a GP/circuit.
1378:I agree; we don't need
1347:add one more column).
1305:occasional controversy
912:Resolved comments from
850:the other way around.
762:; I don't think doing
579:was enough to support
56:21:48, 1 October 2010
1263:Football season start
601:Agreed with Rambo. —
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641:Quick comment
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48:The list was
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1111:early 1990s.
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151:Citation bot
69:
50:not promoted
49:
47:
35:
28:
1255:whitespace.
1087:these lines
1592:Giants2008
1325:Sandman888
1291:Sandman888
869:Fixed this
563:Sandman888
534:Sandman888
206:Courcelles
1245:something
893:02blythed
875:02blythed
1543:Comments
1069:removed
526:MOS:BOLD
453:MOS:BOLD
320:MOS:BOLD
146:Analysis
54:Dabomb87
1513:Nergaal
1454:Nergaal
1420:Nergaal
1402:Nergaal
1349:Nergaal
889:support
841:comment
561:added.
224:current
138:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
1612:NapHit
1529:NapHit
1488:NapHit
1384:Golbez
1182:NapHit
1161:NapHit
1139:NapHit
1118:NapHit
1096:NapHit
1071:NapHit
1046:NapHit
1015:NapHit
988:NapHit
954:NapHit
852:NapHit
820:(talk)
799:NapHit
781:(talk)
734:NapHit
720:(talk)
669:Golbez
657:(talk)
592:(talk)
548:Golbez
492:NapHit
478:Golbez
439:NapHit
424:Golbez
407:NapHit
290:NapHit
270:Golbez
266:oppose
219:that).
187:NapHit
170:NapHit
93:delete
1251:2011.
1094:done
968:names
315:lead.
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1616:talk
1580:done
1568:Done
1556:Done
1533:talk
1517:talk
1492:talk
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1380:each
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793:Ntsh
766:Ntsh
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612:Talk
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466:Talk
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393:Talk
294:talk
274:talk
268:. --
191:talk
174:talk
106:logs
80:talk
76:edit
1446:six
1372:--
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942:an
758:Nts
701:•
691:KV5
615:•
605:KV5
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469:•
459:KV5
396:•
386:KV5
52:by
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1545:–
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1272:--
1266:}}
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