1014:'s claims that "if you can't read page histories, what are you doing on vandalism patrol?" and "I'd suggest you edit wikipedia some more before you go on vandalism patrol", I would like to clarify that I am perfectly capable of combing through talk page histories to discover vandalism warnings that a user has removed. Furthermore, I have nearly 3000 edits on Knowledge (XXG), a substantial portion of which involve the reversion of vandalism or applying warnings to vandals' talk pages. From my personal experience in countervandalism efforts, I am able to state that RC patrol is a highly time-pressured activity. Every minute that must be spent on combing through a vandal's talk page history is a minute during which a vandalism warning or a report to
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you can't read page histories, what are you doing on vandalism patrol? Isn't that where you're supposed to be looking all along? Do be sure to mark warnings clearly in your edit summaries! perhaps in some standardised way (eg WARN1, WARN2 , etc ). Once again, if you aren't able to use edit summaries to your advantage like that, I'd suggest you edit wikipedia some more before you go on vandalism patrol. I am terribly sorry I can't think of a way to put it less bluntly, and I apologise for that. :-(
1120:. These templates are often used to further harass legitimate users who are removing unwanted content from their talk pages — as is their right. The existence of these templates serves to give legitimacy to the mistaken notion that people are not allowed to remove pestering messages from their talk pages. These templates are sometimes sent to admins who have removed vandalism templates they were sent after rolling back trollish edits to articles or spam message to user pages. In the case of
1162:(which was not actually included in this TFD nomination) to reflect the fact that only the removal of legitimate comments is considered to be objectionable. I have previously edited the other warning removal templates to clarify that only the removal of legitimate vandalism warnings is considered to be disruptive behavior. The mere fact that some vandals might continue to misuse these templates for disruption does not justify deleting the templates, any more than the improper use of
958:-- the purpose of the templates is to warn IPs and vandalism only accounts that are removing warnings from their talk pages in efforts to conceal the evidence of their vandalism. Users participating in RC patrol often rely on the existence of prior vandalism warnings on the current version of the vandal's talk page to indicate whether and how the vandal should be warned again, or whether the vandal should be listed on
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template applied to a user's talk page, even if the templates were complete unjustified. What we need is a listing of all legitimate vandalism warnings that a user has received. The best way that has been developed to achieve this goal is to prohibit users from removing legitimate vandalism warnings, and to block them and protect their talk pages if they persist in this activity.
843:* to confuse rc patrollers into thinking noones noticed their spree of blatant vandalism in the last half hour. If there's no warning, not even a simple way to caution them, well heck, why have *ANY* warning templates at all, when the vandals can just remove them 10 seconds after they get them, and it takes twice as long to get them blocked for replacing pages with graffiti text.
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to be the most objectionable of all, as it doesn't even relate to the removal of warnings, but simply to unwanted messages. It tells users that they're "welcome to archive talk page, but be sure to provide a link to any deleted comments." That one should definitely go. There is no obligation to have
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permissions, of whom there are relatively few, would be permitted to perform such removals. Such an inability to remove illegitimate vandalism warnings would effectively invite vandals to fill the talk pages of users who participate in RC patrol with vandalism warnings, and would otherwise encourage
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diff between edits, a particularly time consuming process. As a practical matter, the time-critical nature of countervandalism efforts demands that the integrity of talk pages as an quick reference to legitimate vandalism warnings be maintained. Finally, if we are to designate the talk page history
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The statement "Using this set of templates typically escalates a conflict and hurts prospects of cooling it down again" implies that the templates are being used in a conflict between legitimate users. However, these templates are not intended for use in situations that arise out of content disputes
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Using countervandalism tools to parse talk page histories and extract a listing of warning templates would make illegitimate vandalism warnings effectively irremovable, thereby encouraging the use of frivolous vandalism warnings for the purpose of trolling. We don't need a listing of every warning
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Effective countervandalism efforts require a quickly accessible archive of all legitimate vandalism warnings that a user has received. Preventing the removal of legitimate vandalism warnings from talk pages is essential to this goal, and these templates assist in such efforts. I will modify these
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I don't have a big opinion about keep or delete wrt the templates. Note that I've found that if you're caught using them, you can be blocked for 24 hours, since you're basically editwarring when you use them. (someone recently almost did get blocked). To be consistent, I've also marked the proposed
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in content disputes justifies deleting this template. Instead of deleting our countervandalism tools, we should focus on preventing the misuse of these and other warning templates. In almost all cases, an administrator who recieves a frivolous vandalism warning or warning removal template from a
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I have recently observed a situation where a user placed warning tags, the other user removed them, and the person placing these warnings got blocked or almost blocked. You can't hide anything in your talk page history at all actually. There's no really polite way to put this (sorry), but well, if
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which conforms with many other state highway projects. I'm trying for some conformity here, much as what SPUI is asking for the route/highway designations. Instead of seeing this, he reverted it, undid all of my work and other user contributions, and is taking all of this one big step back for the
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The original intent is to use it for multiple state highway pages. The comment is left on, because with a "preview" done of 500 state highways (copied and pasted a bunch over and over to get desired effect), the page length and load is not that much greater - its very small if it is noticeable at
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must be delayed, an additional minute during which the vandal will remain unblocked and may commit further acts of vandalism. Furthermore, while I identify the placement of vandalism warnings in my edit summaries, some users who place vandalism warnings do not supply such edit summaries. Thus,
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vandals removing (or altering) legitimate warnings, they can simply be reverted with a one-line message (how long does that take to type?) telling them that they are not allowed to remove warnings. I imagine my vote isn't going to have any effect, as there are so many "keep" votes, but I find
974:. Consequently, removing legitimate vandalism warnings is still a policy violation, unless the current version of the policy page is considered dispositive with respect to actions taken during its existence. In which case, when I reinsert the language removed with
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These warnings are useful for IP users who have and will blank warnings. It's
Knowledge (XXG) policy that warnings are not removed, but archived, (and I think that you had mistakenly not substituted the TFD warnings in the process of listing).
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guidelines to do with this as rejected, since they conflict with several other wikipedia rules (including 3RR). It's just a bad idea. It's much much wiser to check a vandals' page history to see if they've been warned and they've read it.
962:. Allowing vandals to hide the warnings in the history of their talk page frustrates countervandalism efforts. While the fact that removing legitimate vandalism warnings constitutes vandalism was recently removed from
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messages to go with them and explain the situation. That said, these templates are, unfortunately, necessary in some cases. Perhaps the wording could be tweaked to be more positive and less punitive.
148:. The reasons I cited above should be sufficent enough to keep the state highway template, as it is used on other state highway pages, as it is compact, concice, and easy to read. The current mash of
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The templates have as much usefulness to the project as any of the other warning templates. With all of them, I feel they should be used sparingly, and more use should be made of
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Incorrect. I had seperated the very lengthy list, that was both unorganized, cluttered, and resembles basic HTML knowledge, with a clean and refreshed page that is similar to the
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800:. Considering it is not presently part of our vandalism policy to block for such actions, these templates are in fact incorrect in warning a user that they might be blocked. -
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Templates are unnescesary/redundant, as we already have guidelines on how to act in this kind of situation. If a warning is removed, we can be pretty sure it has been read.
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This was apparently inadvertently included in the archiving of the TfD below. Moved up here in the interest of clarity & to ensure its inclusion in this discussion --
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This is in fact not the wikipedia policy. The policy is that clearing a warning counts as the user having read it. If they do it again, you can immediately take action.
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Which is not very wise. If they remove the warning, and then act again, just block them or get them blocked. If you can't block them, then what the heck are you doing?
970:, there is supermajority support for the belief that removing legitimate vandalism warnings either constitutes vandalism or a non-vandalism policy violation -- see
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reverts a days worth of work on three pages, a template, and a main article page. I find this very unfair and unbecoming of a user who is still fighting his
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This template has now been replaced by separate ones for
England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man and Channel Islands (e.g.
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Using this set of templates typically escalates a conflict and hurts prospects of cooling it down again. So they don't help but do hurt.
1097:- It is a handy way to show excalating vandalism. No need to go to history to see whether they were deleted as they are on the page. --
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rather than the current version of the talk page as an archive of vandalism warnings, such warnings will be effectively irremovable,
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Well seen. My argument to delete was that they escalate a vandalism situation. A better action would be to just block immediately.
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However, it seems most of the time I use these templates is after the user is already blocked, and is blanking their talk page. --
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982:, the policy will, for some non-zero interval of time hereafter, define removing legitimate vandalism warnings as vandalism.
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page. Interstates, U.S. Highways, and State
Highways were seperated into distinct pages to reduce page clutter and page size.
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Even ordinary administrators would be unable to remove improper vandalism warnings -- only administrators with
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812:, but only for historical purposes and noinclude the {{Rejected}} template, that way everyone's satisfied. --
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the wr templates as the appropriate template to use for "Removing warnings on own user talk page." --
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1274:. The thread on ANI is very clear that this is a bad idea, and the creator has agreed with that. -
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below.
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irremovable before? I think that perhaps your premise does not hold. <scratches head: -->
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IMHO I think those big templates are ... too big but oh well. VA's and OR's got deleted. --
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Hmm, so would you like vandalism checking tools to be able to check history for you?
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produce archives if you don't want to, even though I'm in favour of it myself. (See
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identifying such "no-summary" warnings in a talk page history would involve viewing
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does not change the fact that single-use templates are to be substed and deleted. --
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all. It would actually be useful to have it, since it would conform with how the
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to say that their talk page will be protected, as that is what we really do. --
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Not necessary to create a template for some vandal seeking attention.
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templates, however, to reflect the fact that only the removal of
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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the use of frivolous vandalism warnings as a form of disruption.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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even where they are mistaken, or completely frivolous.
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112:. Single-use templates are to be substed. --
972:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Removing warnings
18:Knowledge (XXG):Templates for deletion
1140:and the six edits that follow it, or
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1144:and the nine edits that follow it.)
904:very important in anti vandal work.
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104:05:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC) Was a
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933:Kim Bruning
923:Talk to me!
874:Kim Bruning
853:Speedy Keep
788:Kim Bruning
646:Template:Wr
567:per nom. —
553:per norm. ~
541:Per nom. --
530:Tryforceful
399:Per nom. --
388:Our Phellap
1039:legitimate
888:non-canned
845:Kevin_b_er
261:Rschen7754
1030:Oversight
976:this edit
968:this edit
919:Ian Manka
569:Ian Moody
140:Instead,
43:August 10
620:to keep.
323:deletion
269:contribs
244:contribs
181:contribs
157:To add,
55:August 9
38:August 8
20: |
1330:kantari
1303:history
1169:John254
1099:Tbeatty
1077:already
1064:John254
1043:John254
1008:Comment
984:John254
893:Ssbohio
864:Ssbohio
858:Ryūlóng
798:deleted
761:history
727:history
693:history
659:history
543:Ssbohio
488:history
401:Ssbohio
362:history
152:is not.
146:charges
1276:Splash
1272:DELETE
1183:Porqin
1118:Delete
1073:become
829:(talk)
822:Change
631:rbil10
551:Delete
539:Delete
458:Centrx
454:Delete
397:Delete
334:rbil10
233:Seicer
170:Seicer
150:routes
97:rbil10
1326:Nacon
1311:watch
1307:links
1021:every
978:into
826:Chris
769:watch
765:links
735:watch
731:links
701:watch
697:links
667:watch
663:links
623:RyanG
556:Zythe
496:watch
492:links
370:watch
366:links
326:RyanG
194:Your
89:RyanG
46:: -->
16:<
1315:logs
1299:talk
1295:edit
1199:only
1191:Keep
1179:Keep
1146:AnnH
1142:this
1138:this
1122:real
1095:Keep
955:Keep
915:Keep
902:Keep
884:Keep
841:LOVE
810:Keep
802:Mark
773:logs
757:talk
753:edit
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723:talk
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705:logs
689:talk
685:edit
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651:edit
518:and
500:logs
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463:talk
374:logs
358:talk
354:edit
265:talk
240:talk
200:SPUI
177:talk
142:SPUI
114:SPUI
35:<
1219:ino
1130:Wr0
966:in
456:. —
242:) (
179:) (
22:Log
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1293:(
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1203:M
1150:♫
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202:(
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116:(
93:e
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