567:|} The above are just a couple alternatives that would allow you to include the armament details. To just quickly explain this change, it's based on the premise of setting the class as the heading, including a paragraph about the class, and then using the table to deal with the major aspects of each ship. I will note that this will have a rather significant impact on the article, as such, I'm willing to get some outside opinions on my suggestion. I based my original comment off of prior experience with AL and FL class articles of this type, usually dealing with WW2 ships and not modern ones. Sorry for the walls of text though.
554:{| class="db-d2lraXRhYmxl" |- valign="center"|- valign="center" ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Ships ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Picture ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Armament ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Displacement ! align= center scope=col colspan=2|Service ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Origin ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|References |-valign="center" ! align= center scope=col|Laid down ! align= center scope=col|Commissioned |-valign="center" | {{INS|Kolkata|D63}}<ref name="INS Kolkata - IN Official": -->
248:
on it (armament), the thickness of the armour, how heavy it is (displacement; the amount of water it displaces in weight should equal the weight of the actual ship), the propulsion system (engines, shafts, what have you), and a brief overview of the ships service (as described by the table). I am however okay with the current additions of origin and references and definitely recommend they be left as part of the current tables.
275:
section title and above the actual table. The no. of ships section would become redundant in this case. I'll add however, if each of the ships in the class are identical to each other in terms of the raw data (armament, armour, displacement etc) then it may not be necessary to redesign the article entirely in this way. Just include the missing information pertinent to each class and that should solve this issue.
720:, I have collapsed our discussion above on the format of the wiki table to make it easier to navigate through the review, I will respost this part of the discussion on to the article's talk page for anybody who would like to review it. I'll look at the rest of the article soon and update you with any improvements or findings that I make here.
180:
with reliable sources. The sentences in the lead and the prose throughout the sections are referenced. Please suggest improvements regarding citations, style, structure etc. The list also has considerable importance in scope of WikiProject India and one of the most important lists relating to the Indian military and the Indian Navy. Regards,
563:| ] | *4 × 8-cell ], for a total of 32; *] missiles LR-SAM *2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16 ] anti-ship and land-attack missiles *1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM *4 × ] ] *4 × ] Torpedo tubes *2 × ] anti-submarine rockets | 7,500 tonnes | September 2003 | 16 August 2014 | {{IND}} | <ref name="Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers": -->
1191:
1266:
Right, but what I'm saying is the license tags for those photos are not correct. The first is likely a copyright violation (i.e., the uploader is not the creator, given the very dubious nature of his other uploads), the second is not a work of the
British government, and the third is likely not under
768:
Hope you don't mind, but, I too will wait for the GOCE edit. I haven't noted anything otherwise problematic with the article barring a few prose issues. I assume GOCE will clear those up and then I'll give it another look. I am also otherwise occupied doing GA reviews so my apologies for the delay in
557:{{cite news|title=India welcomes its first home-built warship|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2726840/India-welcomes-home-built-warship-PM-Modi-commissions-INS-Kolkata-Defence-Minister-prepares-launch-INS-Kamorta.html|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Daily Mail UK}}</ref: -->
523:{{cite news|title=India welcomes its first home-built warship|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2726840/India-welcomes-home-built-warship-PM-Modi-commissions-INS-Kolkata-Defence-Minister-prepares-launch-INS-Kamorta.html|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Daily Mail UK}}</ref: -->
1292:
This page is now in the PD in the US, even though it was clearly published long after 1923, the date of creation as you can see is 28 July 2016, but, I am claiming it was before 1923. Similarly, Parsecboy has suspicions that the uploader may have done a similar thing, included an appropriate license
1241:
I have fixed all the issues you mentions; duplicate links, sentences, displacement and all. Regarding the image suggestions; the image you've suggested was added in the lead section. The issue with other three images; I have used these images from commons which are licensed under the free license of
247:
I would expect that any A level list article about military ships, and indeed any article about a military ship, be able to describe the ship to at the least this detail. It's rather important that a person going through this article is given an overview of the ships in terms of the guns and weapons
1281:
If I may add to that slightly; the issue is, that anybody can place any license they wish on an image. I could go to google images, take any image I want, upload it to
Wikimedia Commons and tag it with CC-BY-SA-3.0, or PD-1923, or whatever. The onus is on the uploader to also include proof that the
255:
Sub-note; if one or more of these pieces of information is not available, on the count of the fact that these are current military ships and detailed data on them may not be publicly available, then the omission of that information is of course acceptable. I can't expect you to add information that
310:
Thank you for the suggestions. I will work them on accordingly. But before that, I have some doubts regarding the table you've suggested. Firstly, I cannot find the information about the 'Armor' for any of the ships. So, I wish to omit the column. And the same with 'Propulsion'. In this case, I am
179:
I am nominating this article for A-Class review. The list is currently a B-class list. As a next step, I am nominating the list for A-class review. The list has a good lead and prose for individual sections have been expanded during the B-class review. Each and every ship and every class is cited
274:
Note; implementing this will still affect the way the article is written, each of the classes would need to have their own table and section which should include a summary of the ship class as well. The images in the table would probably need to be moved out of the table and set neatly under the
529:| *4 × 8-cell ], for a total of 32; *] missiles LR-SAM *2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16 ] anti-ship and land-attack missiles *1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM *4 × ] ] *4 × ] Torpedo tubes *2 × ] anti-submarine rockets | {{IND}} | 7,500 tonnes | <ref name="Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers": -->
689:
I have expanded the other two sections too. Please review the entire article accordingly and suggest any further improvements required. I have not included prose for the
Kolkata class in future ships section, as prose of the class is already mentioned in previous section of Kolkata class in
562:{{cite news|title=India's deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai|url=http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/indias-deadliest-naval-warship-ins-kochi-commissioned-today/|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Indian Express|date=30 September 2015}}</ref: -->
528:{{cite news|title=India's deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai|url=http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/indias-deadliest-naval-warship-ins-kochi-commissioned-today/|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Indian Express|date=30 September 2015}}</ref: -->
509:
I'm not sure that the headings are entirely necessary since each line will describe the type of weapon itself. The downside is it looks less clean then with the headings. I do note however that both ships in the
Kolkata class have the same armament, perhaps just have it look like
311:
considering of replacing the 'Propulsion' column with 'Speed', which is available for all the ships. Secondly, it is regarding the armament. It is good to provide the information which is available, but I think adding information about the armament will make the column too heavy.
858:
with optional suggestion; I think this is a lovely article, I only wonder if there's inconsistency in having a references column in the table at the same time you have references within the table itself (as in the row on the
Kolkata class)? Not a deal-breaker, though.
240:{| class="db-d2lraXRhYmxlIA" |- valign="top"|- valign="top" ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Ship ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Armament ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Armor ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Displacement</small: -->
1128:
No worries, I've made a couple more tweaks and added my support. If you wish to take this to FL, I suggest trying to cover off on the hidden comments the copy editor left in the article, but otherwise it looks good to me. Thanks for your efforts. Regards,
447:
I figured that armour and propulsion might be a problem, I had looked at the
Kolkata class ships and noted that armour information was not available. In terms of armament, it does seem to be a bit unwieldy, perhaps condensing it to something like;
654:
I think it adds quite a bit to the list in both quantity and quality (will confirm on further reading) and I note that each class, currently operating, has been expanded quite a bit. Feel free to do the same to the other two sections as well.
1210:- not sure the copyright tag is correct. Photo is attributed to a Stewart Bale Ltd, Liverpool, so it's clearly not a work of the British government. We also need to know how the photo is PD in the US, since Wikimedia servers are in the US.
566:{{cite web|title=Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/vikramaditya-viraat-delhi-class-rajput-class-kolkata-class|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
532:{{cite web|title=Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/vikramaditya-viraat-delhi-class-rajput-class-kolkata-class|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
241:! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Propulsion ! align= center scope=col colspan=3 | Service |-valign="top" ! align= center scope=col | Laid down ! align= center scope=col |Commissioned ! align= center scope=col |Fate |-valign="top" |}
520:{| class="db-d2lraXRhYmxl" |- !|Class !|Picture !|Type !|Ships !|Armament !|Origin !|Displacement !|References |- | {{sclass-|Kolkata|destroyer|4}} | ] | ] ] | {{INS|Kolkata|D63}}<ref name="INS Kolkata - IN Official": -->
70:
1242:
CC by S.A 4.0, per the policy of UK and per Polish
Copyright Law Act of February 4, 1994. And they are available on commons I think they can be used in the list. Please suggest further improvements required.
564:{{cite web|title=Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers|url=http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kolkata-class-guided-missile-destroyers/|website=Naval Technology|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
530:{{cite web|title=Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers|url=http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kolkata-class-guided-missile-destroyers/|website=Naval Technology|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
623:
I have reconstructed the commissioned ships section accordingly. Please review it and suggest the improvements required. If it is well and good, I'll the apply the same to the other two sections. Regards,
1047:
Lyon appears in the
References but isn't used as a citation: suggest creating a Further reading section and putting it there, potentially with one or two more relevant, but uncited works (if they exist).
967:
there is a mixture of US English spellings and
British spellings in the article (for example, "centreline" (British) and "maneuverable" (US)). Either would be fine, IMO, but consistency is the key;
1216:- this photo was likely first published in Britain, not Poland. Without a source, it cannot be definitively proved either way, and of course evidence of free usage in the US is also necessary.
133:
1462:
The article reads better now, though I'm not thrilled with the new title of the list. The previous title was the standard format adopted by several editors (including me) - see for instance
129:
1167:- this seems to be redundant to the sentence that precedes it. Obviously, if the ship is the heaviest destroyer of the Indian Navy, the class will necessarily also be the heaviest class.
121:
21:
159:
1187:
class given by the media used in the table instead of that from the Indian Navy? I'd think the Navy ought to know better than the media what their own ships displace.
1467:
1050:
citations 32 and 33 should be converted to short citations, and the full reference listed in the
References. Both citations should have page numbers, also.
1538:
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were laid. On you advice, I have placed request on the GOCE page. Regarding the mixture of English and British spellings, I am working on that. Regards,
830:
125:
285:
Temporary note; I have only skimmed the article at this point, I will take a more in-depth look at it tomorrow and will update with further thoughts.
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class, the references I have included are for individual ships, but the for the others the references are applicable for the whole class. Regards,
1471:
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947:
in the lead, I suggest adding a total number of decommissioned destroyers, to balance the line where you talk about the 10 current vessels;
1026:
No worries, I made a few more tweaks. Please check you are happy with those. I have a couple more observations also, please see below.
1534:
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555:{{cite web|title=INS Kolkata|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1183|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
521:{{cite web|title=INS Kolkata|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1183|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
1500:
560:{{cite web|title=INS Kochi|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1187|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
526:{{cite web|title=INS Kochi|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1187|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
420:
Do you want me to include all this information. If it is required, I'll definitely. Please clarify me on this dubiety. Regards,
964:
SS-N-15 'Starfish' or possibly... the MOS requests double quotes here, I believe. For instance: SS-N-15 "Starfish" or possibly;
1194:
for the lead section - helps to illustrate just what the destroyers do. Of course, if there's a better option that's fine too.
1326:
I have replaced the image for INS Kolkata, think it has been licensed appropriately. Regarding the other two please consider
1557:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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1165:"This also makes the Kolkata class the heaviest of the destroyer classes presently in active service with the Indian Navy"
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Anyway, that's it from me: I will come back once the copy edit is finished. Thanks for your efforts. Regards,
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Thanks for your support. Actually I have some about placing the references. But as you have mentioned the
486:
380:
238:* I have noticed a long-standing tradition that list articles for military ships use the following table:
54:
565:<ref name="Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class : Indian Navy Official": -->
531:<ref name="Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class : Indian Navy Official": -->
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There is are a few bolded words in the lede, is this necessary or can we de-bold all these words?
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on the article's talk page. Anyway I have moved the page as per the standard format. Regards,
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Greatly extended discussion on table format, nowiki-ed, and collapsed for ease of navigation
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No problem. I am too waiting for the GOCE edit. I'll notify you once it is complete.
1044:
citations 29, 30 and 31 should have publisher, author and accessdates added to them;
561:<ref name="India’s deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai": -->
527:<ref name="India’s deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai": -->
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that they fabricated to suit their purpose of adding it to Knowledge (XXG) quite
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1164:
932:
G'day, thanks for your efforts with this list. I have the following suggestions:
319:, it information regarding it armament from the article's infobox is as follows:
1327:
541:
I might also consider suggesting yet another version, Alternative the third;
213:
Below I'll be including some comments on how the article might be improved.
589:
Thank you. I will work accordingly and will notify you once done. Regards,
1331:
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class destroyers or frigates? The two ship types are not one in the same.
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1076:
Thanks for the suggestions. Fixed the issues with references. Regards,
961:, as there are still a few places where the grammar could be tightened;
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362:
991:
I have fixed the issues with the lead, double quotes and the dates of
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377:
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attributed license is correct. As an example for license abuse;
1200:- not real sure I buy the uploader's claim, given they uploaded
556:<ref name="India welcomes its first home-built warship": -->
522:<ref name="India welcomes its first home-built warship": -->
741:
Thanks for that. Looking forward to hear from you. Regards,
559:{{INS|Kochi|D64}}<ref name="INS Kochi - IN Official": -->
525:{{INS|Kochi|D64}}<ref name="INS Kochi - IN Official": -->
1338:
for Salazak. Please review those images before I add them.
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to give their final vote regarding the article. Regards,
1428:
The GOCE edit was complete. Please have a look. Regards,
1110:
The GOCE edit was complete. Please have a look. Regards,
821:
The GOCE edit was complete. Please have a look. Regards,
169:
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950:
the lead should be no more than four paragraphs per
1499:Actually I have expressed the same opinion in the
1157:Quite a bit of duplicate links - there's a script
1161:you can install that will highlight them for you.
8:
18:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
1468:List of battlecruisers of the United States
1474:, etc. The ideal title should probably be
1372:should be fine, and the second option for
957:I suggest requesting a copy edit from the
226:
148:
1397:Replaced images accordingly. Thank you.
1376:is good (but the first one is a no-go).
1183:Why is the displacement figure for the
151:
1472:List of battleships of Austria-Hungary
459:, for a total of 32 anti-air missiles;
981:was laid down appears to be missing;
117:List of destroyers of the Indian Navy
80:List of destroyers of the Indian Navy
7:
1208:File:HMS Raider 1942 IWM FL 9760.jpg
974:was laid down appears to be missing;
469:: 0.5 km (0.31 mi) to 90 km (56 mi))
345:: 0.5 km (0.31 mi) to 90 km (56 mi))
33:The following discussion is closed.
977:in the Hunt class table, the date
476:anti-ship and land-attack missiles
365:anti-ship and land-attack missiles
28:
1553:The discussion above is closed.
1214:File:Slazak wraca spod Dieppe.jpg
954:, so I suggest merging a couple;
1368:photo, the suggested image for
1190:I might recommend a photo like
1171:"they have 2,363 modifications"
970:in the R class table, the date
353:Anti-ship/Land-attack missiles:
72:« Return to A-Class review list
1:
690:commissioned ships. Regards,
479:1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM
373:1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM
67:07:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
1173:- this strikes me as puffery
1543:14:56, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
1517:02:08, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
1488:19:25, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
1476:List of destroyers of India
1464:List of cruisers of Germany
1442:01:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
1139:11:47, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
1124:01:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
835:01:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
256:isn't available after all.
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1386:19:51, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
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1307:11:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
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1226:20:50, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
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1063:01:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
1036:01:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
810:11:25, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
779:10:57, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
1364:I fixed the link for the
1022:12:24, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
942:06:08, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
911:01:44, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
869:01:32, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
764:14:51, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
730:13:19, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
713:12:47, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
665:08:50, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
647:08:38, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
612:06:52, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
577:04:33, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
443:00:23, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
295:16:13, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
266:16:17, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
223:16:13, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
203:15:30, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
1555:Please do not modify it.
1531:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
1505:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
1430:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
1112:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
823:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
718:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
652:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
36:Please do not modify it.
472:2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16
390:Anti-submarine warfare:
361:2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16
1267:Polish copyright law.
502:anti-submarine rockets
409:anti-submarine rockets
1202:this obvious copyvio
1198:File:INS Kolkata.jpg
335:, for a total of 32;
325:Anti-air missiles:
315:When you consider
769:responding here.
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51:Anotherclown
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558:<br: -->
524:<br: -->
455:4 × 8-cell
331:4 × 8-cell
1527:Mr rnddude
1322:Mr rnddude
1299:Mr rnddude
817:Mr rnddude
786:Mr rnddude
771:Mr rnddude
737:Mr rnddude
722:Mr rnddude
685:Mr rnddude
657:Mr rnddude
619:Mr rnddude
585:Mr rnddude
569:Mr rnddude
465:missiles (
341:missiles (
306:Mr rnddude
287:Mr rnddude
258:Mr rnddude
215:Mr rnddude
59:MilHistBot
22:Assessment
1523:Parsecboy
1495:Parsecboy
1480:Parsecboy
1424:Parsecboy
1406:KC Velaga
1393:Parsecboy
1378:Parsecboy
1347:KC Velaga
1314:Parsecboy
1295:illegally
1269:Parsecboy
1251:KC Velaga
1237:Parsecboy
1218:Parsecboy
919:Citations
880:LavaBaron
861:LavaBaron
799:KC Velaga
210:Comments:
1192:this one
1176:Are the
1151:Comments
1149:Support
997:Godavari
979:Godavari
928:Comments
500:RBU-6000
407:RBU-6000
208:Support
160:Analysis
47:promoted
45:Article
20: |
1521:I ping
1399:Regards
1366:Kolkata
1340:Regards
1287:PD-1923
1244:Regards
1185:Kolkata
1178:Kolkata
959:WP:GOCE
952:WP:LEAD
924:Support
886:Kolkata
856:Support
792:Regards
474:BrahMos
463:Barak 8
363:BrahMos
339:Barak 8
152:Toolbox
130:history
1374:Slazak
1370:Raider
1086:Velaga
1009:Velaga
898:Velaga
751:Velaga
700:Velaga
634:Velaga
599:Velaga
484:AK-630
430:Velaga
378:AK-630
190:Velaga
98:Velaga
57:) via
1093:☚╣✉╠☛
1016:☚╣✉╠☛
905:☚╣✉╠☛
758:☚╣✉╠☛
707:☚╣✉╠☛
641:☚╣✉╠☛
606:☚╣✉╠☛
510:this;
467:Range
437:☚╣✉╠☛
369:Guns:
343:Range
197:☚╣✉╠☛
138:watch
134:links
105:☚╣✉╠☛
16:<
1539:mail
1535:talk
1525:and
1513:mail
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1484:talk
1438:mail
1434:talk
1382:talk
1336:this
1332:this
1328:this
1318:and
1303:talk
1273:talk
1222:talk
1159:here
1135:talk
1120:mail
1116:talk
1059:talk
1032:talk
995:and
993:Rana
972:Rana
938:talk
865:talk
831:mail
827:talk
775:talk
726:talk
661:talk
573:talk
498:2 ×
491:4 ×
487:CIWS
482:4 ×
405:2 ×
398:4 ×
381:CIWS
376:4 ×
291:talk
262:talk
219:talk
142:logs
126:talk
122:edit
63:talk
55:talk
533:|}
457:VLS
333:VLS
49:by
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