574:|} The above are just a couple alternatives that would allow you to include the armament details. To just quickly explain this change, it's based on the premise of setting the class as the heading, including a paragraph about the class, and then using the table to deal with the major aspects of each ship. I will note that this will have a rather significant impact on the article, as such, I'm willing to get some outside opinions on my suggestion. I based my original comment off of prior experience with AL and FL class articles of this type, usually dealing with WW2 ships and not modern ones. Sorry for the walls of text though.
561:{| class="db-d2lraXRhYmxl" |- valign="center"|- valign="center" ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Ships ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Picture ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Armament ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Displacement ! align= center scope=col colspan=2|Service ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|Origin ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2|References |-valign="center" ! align= center scope=col|Laid down ! align= center scope=col|Commissioned |-valign="center" | {{INS|Kolkata|D63}}<ref name="INS Kolkata - IN Official": -->
255:
on it (armament), the thickness of the armour, how heavy it is (displacement; the amount of water it displaces in weight should equal the weight of the actual ship), the propulsion system (engines, shafts, what have you), and a brief overview of the ships service (as described by the table). I am however okay with the current additions of origin and references and definitely recommend they be left as part of the current tables.
282:
section title and above the actual table. The no. of ships section would become redundant in this case. I'll add however, if each of the ships in the class are identical to each other in terms of the raw data (armament, armour, displacement etc) then it may not be necessary to redesign the article entirely in this way. Just include the missing information pertinent to each class and that should solve this issue.
727:, I have collapsed our discussion above on the format of the wiki table to make it easier to navigate through the review, I will respost this part of the discussion on to the article's talk page for anybody who would like to review it. I'll look at the rest of the article soon and update you with any improvements or findings that I make here.
187:
with reliable sources. The sentences in the lead and the prose throughout the sections are referenced. Please suggest improvements regarding citations, style, structure etc. The list also has considerable importance in scope of WikiProject India and one of the most important lists relating to the Indian military and the Indian Navy. Regards,
570:| ] | *4 × 8-cell ], for a total of 32; *] missiles LR-SAM *2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16 ] anti-ship and land-attack missiles *1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM *4 × ] ] *4 × ] Torpedo tubes *2 × ] anti-submarine rockets | 7,500 tonnes | September 2003 | 16 August 2014 | {{IND}} | <ref name="Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers": -->
1198:
1273:
Right, but what I'm saying is the license tags for those photos are not correct. The first is likely a copyright violation (i.e., the uploader is not the creator, given the very dubious nature of his other uploads), the second is not a work of the
British government, and the third is likely not under
775:
Hope you don't mind, but, I too will wait for the GOCE edit. I haven't noted anything otherwise problematic with the article barring a few prose issues. I assume GOCE will clear those up and then I'll give it another look. I am also otherwise occupied doing GA reviews so my apologies for the delay in
564:{{cite news|title=India welcomes its first home-built warship|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2726840/India-welcomes-home-built-warship-PM-Modi-commissions-INS-Kolkata-Defence-Minister-prepares-launch-INS-Kamorta.html|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Daily Mail UK}}</ref: -->
530:{{cite news|title=India welcomes its first home-built warship|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2726840/India-welcomes-home-built-warship-PM-Modi-commissions-INS-Kolkata-Defence-Minister-prepares-launch-INS-Kamorta.html|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Daily Mail UK}}</ref: -->
1299:
This page is now in the PD in the US, even though it was clearly published long after 1923, the date of creation as you can see is 28 July 2016, but, I am claiming it was before 1923. Similarly, Parsecboy has suspicions that the uploader may have done a similar thing, included an appropriate license
1248:
I have fixed all the issues you mentions; duplicate links, sentences, displacement and all. Regarding the image suggestions; the image you've suggested was added in the lead section. The issue with other three images; I have used these images from commons which are licensed under the free license of
254:
I would expect that any A level list article about military ships, and indeed any article about a military ship, be able to describe the ship to at the least this detail. It's rather important that a person going through this article is given an overview of the ships in terms of the guns and weapons
1288:
If I may add to that slightly; the issue is, that anybody can place any license they wish on an image. I could go to google images, take any image I want, upload it to
Wikimedia Commons and tag it with CC-BY-SA-3.0, or PD-1923, or whatever. The onus is on the uploader to also include proof that the
262:
Sub-note; if one or more of these pieces of information is not available, on the count of the fact that these are current military ships and detailed data on them may not be publicly available, then the omission of that information is of course acceptable. I can't expect you to add information that
317:
Thank you for the suggestions. I will work them on accordingly. But before that, I have some doubts regarding the table you've suggested. Firstly, I cannot find the information about the 'Armor' for any of the ships. So, I wish to omit the column. And the same with 'Propulsion'. In this case, I am
186:
I am nominating this article for A-Class review. The list is currently a B-class list. As a next step, I am nominating the list for A-class review. The list has a good lead and prose for individual sections have been expanded during the B-class review. Each and every ship and every class is cited
281:
Note; implementing this will still affect the way the article is written, each of the classes would need to have their own table and section which should include a summary of the ship class as well. The images in the table would probably need to be moved out of the table and set neatly under the
536:| *4 × 8-cell ], for a total of 32; *] missiles LR-SAM *2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16 ] anti-ship and land-attack missiles *1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM *4 × ] ] *4 × ] Torpedo tubes *2 × ] anti-submarine rockets | {{IND}} | 7,500 tonnes | <ref name="Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers": -->
696:
I have expanded the other two sections too. Please review the entire article accordingly and suggest any further improvements required. I have not included prose for the
Kolkata class in future ships section, as prose of the class is already mentioned in previous section of Kolkata class in
569:{{cite news|title=India's deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai|url=http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/indias-deadliest-naval-warship-ins-kochi-commissioned-today/|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Indian Express|date=30 September 2015}}</ref: -->
535:{{cite news|title=India's deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai|url=http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/indias-deadliest-naval-warship-ins-kochi-commissioned-today/|accessdate=10 July 2016|work=Indian Express|date=30 September 2015}}</ref: -->
516:
I'm not sure that the headings are entirely necessary since each line will describe the type of weapon itself. The downside is it looks less clean then with the headings. I do note however that both ships in the
Kolkata class have the same armament, perhaps just have it look like
318:
considering of replacing the 'Propulsion' column with 'Speed', which is available for all the ships. Secondly, it is regarding the armament. It is good to provide the information which is available, but I think adding information about the armament will make the column too heavy.
865:
with optional suggestion; I think this is a lovely article, I only wonder if there's inconsistency in having a references column in the table at the same time you have references within the table itself (as in the row on the
Kolkata class)? Not a deal-breaker, though.
247:{| class="db-d2lraXRhYmxlIA" |- valign="top"|- valign="top" ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Ship ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Armament ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Armor ! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Displacement</small: -->
1135:
No worries, I've made a couple more tweaks and added my support. If you wish to take this to FL, I suggest trying to cover off on the hidden comments the copy editor left in the article, but otherwise it looks good to me. Thanks for your efforts. Regards,
454:
I figured that armour and propulsion might be a problem, I had looked at the
Kolkata class ships and noted that armour information was not available. In terms of armament, it does seem to be a bit unwieldy, perhaps condensing it to something like;
661:
I think it adds quite a bit to the list in both quantity and quality (will confirm on further reading) and I note that each class, currently operating, has been expanded quite a bit. Feel free to do the same to the other two sections as well.
1217:- not sure the copyright tag is correct. Photo is attributed to a Stewart Bale Ltd, Liverpool, so it's clearly not a work of the British government. We also need to know how the photo is PD in the US, since Wikimedia servers are in the US.
573:{{cite web|title=Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/vikramaditya-viraat-delhi-class-rajput-class-kolkata-class|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
539:{{cite web|title=Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/vikramaditya-viraat-delhi-class-rajput-class-kolkata-class|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
248:! align= center scope=col rowspan=2 | Propulsion ! align= center scope=col colspan=3 | Service |-valign="top" ! align= center scope=col | Laid down ! align= center scope=col |Commissioned ! align= center scope=col |Fate |-valign="top" |}
527:{| class="db-d2lraXRhYmxl" |- !|Class !|Picture !|Type !|Ships !|Armament !|Origin !|Displacement !|References |- | {{sclass-|Kolkata|destroyer|4}} | ] | ] ] | {{INS|Kolkata|D63}}<ref name="INS Kolkata - IN Official": -->
77:
1249:
CC by S.A 4.0, per the policy of UK and per Polish
Copyright Law Act of February 4, 1994. And they are available on commons I think they can be used in the list. Please suggest further improvements required.
571:{{cite web|title=Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers|url=http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kolkata-class-guided-missile-destroyers/|website=Naval Technology|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
537:{{cite web|title=Kolkata Class Guided Missile Destroyers|url=http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kolkata-class-guided-missile-destroyers/|website=Naval Technology|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
630:
I have reconstructed the commissioned ships section accordingly. Please review it and suggest the improvements required. If it is well and good, I'll the apply the same to the other two sections. Regards,
1054:
Lyon appears in the
References but isn't used as a citation: suggest creating a Further reading section and putting it there, potentially with one or two more relevant, but uncited works (if they exist).
974:
there is a mixture of US English spellings and
British spellings in the article (for example, "centreline" (British) and "maneuverable" (US)). Either would be fine, IMO, but consistency is the key;
1223:- this photo was likely first published in Britain, not Poland. Without a source, it cannot be definitively proved either way, and of course evidence of free usage in the US is also necessary.
140:
1469:
The article reads better now, though I'm not thrilled with the new title of the list. The previous title was the standard format adopted by several editors (including me) - see for instance
136:
1174:- this seems to be redundant to the sentence that precedes it. Obviously, if the ship is the heaviest destroyer of the Indian Navy, the class will necessarily also be the heaviest class.
128:
21:
166:
1194:
class given by the media used in the table instead of that from the Indian Navy? I'd think the Navy ought to know better than the media what their own ships displace.
27:
1474:
1057:
citations 32 and 33 should be converted to short citations, and the full reference listed in the
References. Both citations should have page numbers, also.
1545:
1519:
1444:
1126:
1006:
were laid. On you advice, I have placed request on the GOCE page. Regarding the mixture of English and British spellings, I am working on that. Regards,
837:
132:
292:
Temporary note; I have only skimmed the article at this point, I will take a more in-depth look at it tomorrow and will update with further thoughts.
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class, the references I have included are for individual ships, but the for the others the references are applicable for the whole class. Regards,
1478:
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in the lead, I suggest adding a total number of decommissioned destroyers, to balance the line where you talk about the 10 current vessels;
1033:
No worries, I made a few more tweaks. Please check you are happy with those. I have a couple more observations also, please see below.
1541:
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562:{{cite web|title=INS Kolkata|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1183|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
528:{{cite web|title=INS Kolkata|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1183|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
1507:
567:{{cite web|title=INS Kochi|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1187|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
533:{{cite web|title=INS Kochi|url=http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/node/1187|website=Indian Navy|accessdate=10 July 2016}}</ref: -->
427:
Do you want me to include all this information. If it is required, I'll definitely. Please clarify me on this dubiety. Regards,
971:
SS-N-15 'Starfish' or possibly... the MOS requests double quotes here, I believe. For instance: SS-N-15 "Starfish" or possibly;
1201:
for the lead section - helps to illustrate just what the destroyers do. Of course, if there's a better option that's fine too.
1333:
I have replaced the image for INS Kolkata, think it has been licensed appropriately. Regarding the other two please consider
1564:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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1172:"This also makes the Kolkata class the heaviest of the destroyer classes presently in active service with the Indian Navy"
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Anyway, that's it from me: I will come back once the copy edit is finished. Thanks for your efforts. Regards,
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891:
Thanks for your support. Actually I have some about placing the references. But as you have mentioned the
493:
387:
245:* I have noticed a long-standing tradition that list articles for military ships use the following table:
61:
572:<ref name="Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class : Indian Navy Official": -->
538:<ref name="Vikramaditya, Viraat, Delhi Class, Rajput Class, Kolkata Class : Indian Navy Official": -->
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There is are a few bolded words in the lede, is this necessary or can we de-bold all these words?
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on the article's talk page. Anyway I have moved the page as per the standard format. Regards,
469:
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28:
Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history/Assessment/List of destroyers of the Indian Navy
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Greatly extended discussion on table format, nowiki-ed, and collapsed for ease of navigation
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No problem. I am too waiting for the GOCE edit. I'll notify you once it is complete.
1051:
citations 29, 30 and 31 should have publisher, author and accessdates added to them;
568:<ref name="India’s deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai": -->
534:<ref name="India’s deadliest naval warship INS Kochi commissioned in Mumbai": -->
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that they fabricated to suit their purpose of adding it to Knowledge (XXG) quite
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939:
G'day, thanks for your efforts with this list. I have the following suggestions:
326:, it information regarding it armament from the article's infobox is as follows:
1334:
548:
I might also consider suggesting yet another version, Alternative the third;
220:
Below I'll be including some comments on how the article might be improved.
596:
Thank you. I will work accordingly and will notify you once done. Regards,
1338:
1187:
class destroyers or frigates? The two ship types are not one in the same.
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413:
1083:
Thanks for the suggestions. Fixed the issues with references. Regards,
968:, as there are still a few places where the grammar could be tightened;
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369:
998:
I have fixed the issues with the lead, double quotes and the dates of
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attributed license is correct. As an example for license abuse;
1207:- not real sure I buy the uploader's claim, given they uploaded
563:<ref name="India welcomes its first home-built warship": -->
529:<ref name="India welcomes its first home-built warship": -->
748:
Thanks for that. Looking forward to hear from you. Regards,
566:{{INS|Kochi|D64}}<ref name="INS Kochi - IN Official": -->
532:{{INS|Kochi|D64}}<ref name="INS Kochi - IN Official": -->
1345:
for Salazak. Please review those images before I add them.
1536:
to give their final vote regarding the article. Regards,
1435:
The GOCE edit was complete. Please have a look. Regards,
1117:
The GOCE edit was complete. Please have a look. Regards,
828:
The GOCE edit was complete. Please have a look. Regards,
176:
148:
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957:
the lead should be no more than four paragraphs per
1506:Actually I have expressed the same opinion in the
1164:Quite a bit of duplicate links - there's a script
1168:you can install that will highlight them for you.
8:
18:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
1475:List of battlecruisers of the United States
1481:, etc. The ideal title should probably be
1379:should be fine, and the second option for
964:I suggest requesting a copy edit from the
233:
155:
1404:Replaced images accordingly. Thank you.
1383:is good (but the first one is a no-go).
1190:Why is the displacement figure for the
158:
1479:List of battleships of Austria-Hungary
466:, for a total of 32 anti-air missiles;
988:was laid down appears to be missing;
124:List of destroyers of the Indian Navy
87:List of destroyers of the Indian Navy
7:
1215:File:HMS Raider 1942 IWM FL 9760.jpg
981:was laid down appears to be missing;
476:: 0.5 km (0.31 mi) to 90 km (56 mi))
352:: 0.5 km (0.31 mi) to 90 km (56 mi))
40:The following discussion is closed.
984:in the Hunt class table, the date
483:anti-ship and land-attack missiles
372:anti-ship and land-attack missiles
35:
1560:The discussion above is closed.
1221:File:Slazak wraca spod Dieppe.jpg
961:, so I suggest merging a couple;
1375:photo, the suggested image for
1197:I might recommend a photo like
1178:"they have 2,363 modifications"
977:in the R class table, the date
360:Anti-ship/Land-attack missiles:
79:« Return to A-Class review list
1:
697:commissioned ships. Regards,
486:1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM
380:1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM
74:07:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
1180:- this strikes me as puffery
1550:14:56, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
1524:02:08, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
1495:19:25, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
1483:List of destroyers of India
1471:List of cruisers of Germany
1449:01:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
1146:11:47, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
1131:01:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
842:01:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
263:isn't available after all.
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1424:13:34, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
1393:19:51, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
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1314:11:23, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
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1269:10:38, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
1233:20:50, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
1106:06:10, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
1070:01:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
1043:01:03, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
817:11:25, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
786:10:57, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
1371:I fixed the link for the
1029:12:24, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
949:06:08, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
918:01:44, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
876:01:32, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
771:14:51, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
737:13:19, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
720:12:47, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
672:08:50, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
654:08:38, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
619:06:52, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
584:04:33, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
450:00:23, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
302:16:13, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
273:16:17, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
230:16:13, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
210:15:30, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
1562:Please do not modify it.
1538:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
1512:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
1437:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
1119:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
830:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
725:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
659:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
43:Please do not modify it.
479:2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16
397:Anti-submarine warfare:
368:2 × 8-cell UVLM for 16
1274:Polish copyright law.
509:anti-submarine rockets
416:anti-submarine rockets
1209:this obvious copyvio
1205:File:INS Kolkata.jpg
342:, for a total of 32;
332:Anti-air missiles:
322:When you consider
776:responding here.
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58:Anotherclown
53:
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565:<br: -->
531:<br: -->
462:4 × 8-cell
338:4 × 8-cell
1534:Mr rnddude
1329:Mr rnddude
1306:Mr rnddude
824:Mr rnddude
793:Mr rnddude
778:Mr rnddude
744:Mr rnddude
729:Mr rnddude
692:Mr rnddude
664:Mr rnddude
626:Mr rnddude
592:Mr rnddude
576:Mr rnddude
472:missiles (
348:missiles (
313:Mr rnddude
294:Mr rnddude
265:Mr rnddude
222:Mr rnddude
66:MilHistBot
22:Assessment
1530:Parsecboy
1502:Parsecboy
1487:Parsecboy
1431:Parsecboy
1413:KC Velaga
1400:Parsecboy
1385:Parsecboy
1354:KC Velaga
1321:Parsecboy
1302:illegally
1276:Parsecboy
1258:KC Velaga
1244:Parsecboy
1225:Parsecboy
926:Citations
887:LavaBaron
868:LavaBaron
806:KC Velaga
217:Comments:
1199:this one
1183:Are the
1158:Comments
1156:Support
1004:Godavari
986:Godavari
935:Comments
507:RBU-6000
414:RBU-6000
215:Support
167:Analysis
54:promoted
52:Article
20: |
1528:I ping
1406:Regards
1373:Kolkata
1347:Regards
1294:PD-1923
1251:Regards
1192:Kolkata
1185:Kolkata
966:WP:GOCE
959:WP:LEAD
931:Support
893:Kolkata
863:Support
799:Regards
481:BrahMos
470:Barak 8
370:BrahMos
346:Barak 8
159:Toolbox
137:history
1381:Slazak
1377:Raider
1093:Velaga
1016:Velaga
905:Velaga
758:Velaga
707:Velaga
641:Velaga
606:Velaga
491:AK-630
437:Velaga
385:AK-630
197:Velaga
105:Velaga
64:) via
1100:☚╣✉╠☛
1023:☚╣✉╠☛
912:☚╣✉╠☛
765:☚╣✉╠☛
714:☚╣✉╠☛
648:☚╣✉╠☛
613:☚╣✉╠☛
517:this;
474:Range
444:☚╣✉╠☛
376:Guns:
350:Range
204:☚╣✉╠☛
145:watch
141:links
112:☚╣✉╠☛
16:<
1546:mail
1542:talk
1532:and
1520:mail
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1491:talk
1445:mail
1441:talk
1389:talk
1343:this
1339:this
1335:this
1325:and
1310:talk
1280:talk
1229:talk
1166:here
1142:talk
1127:mail
1123:talk
1066:talk
1039:talk
1002:and
1000:Rana
979:Rana
945:talk
872:talk
838:mail
834:talk
782:talk
733:talk
668:talk
580:talk
505:2 ×
498:4 ×
494:CIWS
489:4 ×
412:2 ×
405:4 ×
388:CIWS
383:4 ×
298:talk
269:talk
226:talk
149:logs
133:talk
129:edit
70:talk
62:talk
540:|}
464:VLS
340:VLS
56:by
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100:KC
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