Knowledge (XXG) talk:2008 main page redesign proposal

1728:. DYK should not be discounted as less useful simply because the articles aren't the same quality. DYK has never been about showcasing our best work, it shows the reader that you don't have to be a professional writer to edit. DYK almost counteracts the intimidation that some potential editors may experience after seeing the quality of the FA. DYK can draw people onto pages that they never knew existed, onto the side of Knowledge (XXG) that is constantly developing. Yes, the articles aren't great, but it states that these are our 'newest pages', almost as if we are inviting the reader to see our works in progress. Showing our newest pages allows the reader to be assured that Knowledge (XXG) is not stagnant - similar to the effect seeing an article in the ITN section strikes of relevance. 640:(outdent) I have an alternative proposal. We would be interested, of course, to include the Portals (Categories, ect.) links while reducing the chances that a reader would be overwhelmed by the links. In my view, the overload comes from the fact that the list of links provided in the header are out of place. There is a second section which contains relatively similar information, and that is "Other areas of Knowledge (XXG)". If we migrate these links, all the links would be grouped together. This stems from the idea of a hierarchy in layouts, the reader does not have to read the whole page, only the parts he or she may be interested in. So rather than being overwhelmed by having to travel back and forth among the header and "Other areas". They can simply look in the "Other areas". 1916:

not suggesting replacing DYK with GA. I am suggesting adding another intermediate stage as in the proposal at issue here. That proposal only augments the main page by showing the fastest growing of the reviewed classes. The other classes of articles are not significant stages. I wish I could find the relevant image showing this extraordinary growth that was shown at the ongoing A-Class debate. Getting back to the issue, other classes do not have dedicated wikiprojects and such. A-Class and B-Class are less important in the sense that A-Class is even under consideration for being eliminated and B-class does not require review. If you want to show the beginning and the end you should find interesting stubs and contrast them with interesting FAs.--

2875:". The aspect which I am specifically addressing is that the text overlaps the background image: in low contrast monitors (supposedly the old, burnt-out ones—ask David for clarification) it would essentially become a blob of gray. The fix was particularly easy and is displayed at the top along with yours. In order to prevent the text and the background from stacking, I had to downsize the text to be closer to the current main page's. There's a slight overlap at 800X600, but it's very slight and I don't think it'll be as serious of an issue. I don't think I should decide, let's let someone else, they need to be involved. 289:(outdent) You raise an interesting point. I've always hated that the article that goes along with the featured pictures are normally extremely sub-par, but the pictures are featured nonetheless. I've thought about suggesting that POTD (and even DYK/ITN... every section on the main page) should check the links in their templates to make sure that they're at least DYK length and/or quality (even if they never were a DYK). I think this should be a requirement for any link on the Main Page; if there isn't an article of necessary length with the picture in it, POTD should postpone the picture until the article is expanded. -- 1274:

they're both covered under the more encompassing Questions link. I think if we include these two links, people will automatically click on them because they see "real people".. well in my opinion, we should focus on getting them to use the site and what's already there before asking someone a question and being redirected to a page that they could have easily found themselves with a little work. In essence, I'm trying to lessen the workload on volunteers at these desks and open up new users to exploring the site. --

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different lengths, but in my design, I made the left column 60% wide to make it a little shorter (and make the right column a little longer) and make up for the length difference. Every time DYK is updated, ITN (and sometimes OTD) modifies its template to preserve balance between the two columns on the current main page.... I think the same thing would be done with the new design. ITN and OTD would just add a few more blurbs to balance out the page. Also I put some code at the bottom of

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would know about the GA process? Featured Articles are noticeable, if not known by name, as the star has begun to earn a reputation. Secondly, most content editors already know about GAN. The 'you can help' will inevitably bring new users who do not know the criteria to review and get involved in the process. While they may do that without the 'you can help' link, we hardly want to encourage users to be reviewing GANs on their first few edits. ∗

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should be corrected now, although some tweaking may be necessary. The second optimization is by determining the breaks when the screen is significantly downsized, the text is set to break between "encycolopedia" and "that" in the slogan, and "Portals(?)" and "Categories" in the right column. I've also slightly downsized the text size in the slogan so that it would not be longer than the "Welcome to Knowledge (XXG)". Are there any objections?

40: 3051: 3169:. After seven months of back-and-forth nonsense, the only proposed changes are so insignificant that bringing them to the attention of the wider community would be utterly pointless. It's a shame so many editors have already wasted their time on this thing, but keeping it going will not change the fact that it was a wasted effort. It was a nice idea in theory, but the execution killed it. - 3570:

yen involved). Of course it may seem heartless to look at pure financial terms when ~180? lives have been lost and one of the worst natural disasters ever in Australian history in such terms, but then again it's possible the Enten controversy is the biggest fraud in Japanese history and its likely many many lives are going to be ruined by the fraud given that 37k people were involved.

175:). There is a method of keeping panoramas from breaking the template that involves converting the columns into divs instead of using tables, and that was the main reason people didn't support this in the original competition. I think with this new fix, though, the idea is perfectly plausible (and actually works every day on that design, regardless of image size). -- 1232:(outdent) Nope.. never got anything.. I think I joined around March 2008 or so.. I pretty much had to figure out everything on my own haha.. it's all good though. After being here so long, I've pretty much learned my own way around. About the proposal, I'm gonna wait until I get a few more comments, but if everybody is ok with it, I'll go ahead and add it in. -- 969:

question already came up").. Search and Navigation go together to aid in finding articles.. then comes the editing section, which explains verbally, then hands-on (tutorial) how to edit a page and gives new users some guidelines to follow. Then Mobile access for the growing mobile market (iPhone, smart phones, palm pilots, etc.).. and finally Contact us.

2995:(outdent) That's a pretty big list, and I'm not necessarily in agreement with you (larger text::unprofessional/big enough; article count spacing/links list::unnecessary/easily fixable; padding::helps center header; jumbled line breaks::fixed). I would really like more opinions from someone other than the two of us. Seriously. 2849:

said screen settings, but like do you mean gamma settings, color saturation.... what?) makes the text hard to read? I can read it fine on my computer as well as several others that I've accessed it from. I've been working on nbsp's and the like for better aesthetic compatibility with smaller resolutions at

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Since we are focusing on the reader, they likely do not want to copy edit articles or the like, but they do have questions. In being reader focused I believe that we should make an emphasis with these two links. Other than that I think we concur on the remaining points, let's go ahead and implement it.

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Certainly, for this one issue, just keeping it sustained in the current events portal would work, and Im wondering what current events people think of that (this is crosslinked there). But there are other ongoing issues of interest, are'nt there? They aren't "news," in one sense of the word. But they

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amount to the abandonment of most designs in their entirety.) We merely wanted people to engage in the collaborative, discussion-based approach that I described above. (You know, like a wiki?) Unfortunately, most contributors—disillusioned by the realization that they'd wasted a great deal of time

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This proposal was a debacle from day one, Pretzels. Instead of a collaboration to determine what elements of the main page could be improved (and how), it was a free-for-all "competition" to create countless designs (containing whatever arbitrary combinations of elements struck the designers' fancy,

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for redesigning the header was to attract more attention to "Welcome to Knowledge (XXG)." I also don't like that there is no space between the article count and the links (TOC, Portals, etc.). This lack of a line break jumbles up the right side.. not to mention that the padding is really large on low

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The reason we feature lower quality work than GA on DYK is that not only does it encourage article creation, I believe it provides a better insight into the amount of effort put into reaching FA class. DYK is the start, FA is the end (or close to it). GA is an arbitrary stage, merely another point on

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Currently, a list is kept on the current events page as a sidebar. My contention is that some of these are of interest to most people who visit the main page, and deserve thus to be there. Featuring these on the main page would also generate more attention for them, driving up interest in developing

3327:(outdent) There's discussion now, let's wait a bit longer before we make any serious decisions. We can go over competition mentality and so forth in another discussion, I don't see the substance or the potential progress from being so defensive about the particuarly points of view that you may have. 1731:

GAs on the other hand, don't have a niche to fill. FA covers the showcasing aspect, the 'look how good we are' section, DYK shows the stuff we are working on, what would a GA section do? Yes, a lot of work goes into a Good Article, and yes, the authors deserve some recognition but there isn't really

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I'm not a fan of it. The POTD has a nice way of 'finishing' the content on the Main Page - as you read down it is the last user content before the barrage of help and interwiki links. Adding a list of recently reviewed articles will appear, to the average reader, as meaningless. How many non-editors

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Where was this discussed? This is clearly the most likely idea to gain traction on the main page. I think it is very sound. It gives GAs less exposure than DYKs in all honesty even though they are higher quality. I support this idea. It will get resistance from the TFA army though. Look at the

1470:

Thank you for your proposal, but please discuss all changes to the proposal here before making any edits. I don't support adding this to the main page. There has been detailed discussion about GA on the main page (look in the archives at the top of this page), and so far, I don't think GA has gotten

1250:

Same here, and for a period of time I felt quite confused since I really didn't know where to start; but like Dudemanfellabra I figured out. I believe we should re-add the "Reference desk" and "Help desk" under help. They are very specific in nature, but I believe in human support in addition to the

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Now that we're back from the holidays, how about a new (actually old.. but received little attention) proposal. It's been determined before that the "Other areas of Knowledge (XXG)" section contains out of date links. To remedy this, we've redesigned the links in the header, but we've also taken out

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Wow, I've been out for the holidays, and when I come back, this talk page is completely different. What happened? Why are people archiving ongoing discussions? I say we bring back the old structure (What can be changed, what can be introduced, what can be removed, etc.) because this style is getting

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It was the sudden wading in of uninvolved editors halfway through, who saw fit to force the project to abandon all previous proposals, and clearly had no understanding of how to put together a design, that killed it - a long time ago now. The design this endless discussion resulted in does not even

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so the question now is how willing we are to implement it. I've gathered the code from HereToHelp's collection in archive 4, there are several varietys and we can get more by tweaking the colour values. The reason I assume why it is slightly washed out is so that it does not draw too much attention

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The logic is this. On the main page you have our best work in FAs and FPs and other samplings of our work at DYK, ITN and SA. The samplings all serve to depict work on WP. Work on WP goes from stub through FA and TFA quality. DYK and GA articles are two intermediate steps to FA. It is arbitrary

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I'm opposed, since this gives the reader too much about the background operations of Knowledge (XXG). We are not that desperate for GA or FA reviews to begin advertising it on the main page. Furthermore I believe the proposal needs more refinement as a whole (looks like the POTD), perhaps you could

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and there is clearly a financial cost beyond that covered by insurance, in pure financial terms, it seems the Australian bushfires are probably comparable to the fraud (although it's unclear how much money of the fraud has been lost but then again there has also been estimates of up to 226 billion

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I didn't skim read. The horizontal scroll issue should be fixed in the "proposal" above. Is it not? I'm sorry I omitted that in my comment, I thought you'd get it when you'd test the proposed headers. "it messed up other things with smaller resolutions" is a bit vague for me, are you talking about

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I reverted the edit because it caused horizontal scrollbars on 800x600. While it fixed the text overlap problem, it messed up other things with smaller resolutions. I still don't see how the text overlapping is "inaccessible" to some people; can someone explain that to me? What exactly (I know you

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I know my argument is good when it takes three people to try to distract me from making my point!-) Welcome to the fray. DYK is not the start. DYK does not accept stub-class articles which are the start. DYK is just as arbitrary an intermediate step as GA. My point is being missed by all. I am

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Ok I see what you mean, I concur on Policies and Guidelines. I think the "Reference desk" and "Help desk" is extremely useful, so useful it may in time rival some of the commercial tools (e.g. Yahoo answers). In my opinion this is perhaps one the best ways to introduce the reader to the community.

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I think the question mark looks a little out of place. Besides, if people have to click on it to find out what it is, they may as well just click the Portals link, and we should have an improved description there. I've always thought that Knowledge (XXG)'s browsing system is thorough, but not very

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I like the idea of moving everything to one place, but I don't think moving browsing links further down the page is a good idea. I seem to recall that in the link test/study thing, links at the top of the page got way more traffic than at the bottom. Moving everything down would risk the links not

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I have a widescreen monitor (1440 by 900), and on the first, the letters are really far from the logo, while on the second the overlap is just slight. If you shrink the window size, both designs have text overlap at 800 by 600. My preference is for larger text in the welcome banner, since if it's

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What's with the glorification argument? Did anyone mention having the author's name mentioned? Do you think it would be impossible to explain to the reader that there is an intermediate stage along the quality scale somehow so that they can see work that is further along? If we want readers to

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A quick glance at the Questions link makes me think that even by putting a main page link, the service would not crush under it's own weight. The people are helpful, and it looks like all questions get answered, even ones that are a little outside the encyclopedia's scope. If anything, by getting

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The links are strategically arranged.. Help sections come first since that's probably the first thing users will look for. Questions next because new users will want to know where to ask what (FAQ as a sub-link.. kind of like saying "Here's where to ask questions, but read this FAQ to see if your

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Exactly. I've have more than one occasion where I get to a page, and it takes me a good couple of minutes to figure out why this page exists and how I should go about using it. There needs to be more effort to translate these navagational pages into something new users can understand, rather than

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I agree.. while I supported taking most of the header links out, the header is still the most viewed part of the page. Only the essential navigation links should remain there. I didn't support portals originally because I didn't think new users would see the word "Portals" and magically know what

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The twelve enumerated are a sort of portals category. I like Jennavencia's design as well, however the rationale behind getting rid of the full list was to help reduce information overload. We want it to be appealing not overwhelming. Another option rather than reentering the full list of portals

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From my understanding of the last issue over the header: don't stack the text over the header since the two may become a blob of gray on low-contrast monitors. We also got rid of the gutter (where you stuck the portals list) for a reason (see archive 4). Right now I believe most of the people who

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Wouldn't the proper question to ask if you want to expose the reader to wikipedia be why does DYK need exposure. Clearly, GAs are higher quality than DYKs. Supporting the current main page format makes no sense since GAs are higher quality than DYKs and deserve relatively more exposure for the

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I could see getting rid of Tutorial and Guidelines, but I think Questions and FAQ (or at least one of them) should remain. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Questions because it's more encompassing. Navigation, being a major part of Knowledge (XXG) interaction, should remain. I never got a "welcome

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I would say get rid of Questions, FAQ, Tutorial and Guidelines. Questions and Faq can both be reached easily from the Help page, and while tutorial may be helpful, it and guidelines I think are better introduced once people start editing. If I'm not mistaken, they are traditionally included in a

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Not too long ago David brought up the issue that the faded globe background collided with the text "Welcome to Knowledge (XXG)". Before the background was set to 200px left center from the center of the header box, and when the screen window was resized the globe would crash into the text. This

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Ok, nice; I like it. The only thing left that I see that needs to be done is to sorten some of the descriptions. For example "Ask volunteers encyclopaedic questions about many different subjects" could be reduced to "Ask volunteers encyclopedic questions on a variety of questions" (or shorter).

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Policies and Guidelines are a major header on the Help page; if a user is looking for a policy, (s)he will most likely click on help anyways (partly because it's the first link), so I don't think policies and guidelines should be added. About Help and Reference desks, I've mentioned before that

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In your proposal the big date is distracting (and of questionable usefulness), left alignment of text on the right edge looks unprofessional. The huge white space in the middle makes me wonder if there's something missing. In the current (proposed) design "Welcome to Knowledge (XXG)" captures

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should be combined, expanded a little bit, and moved to the top of Portal:Contents/Portals. Placing the description at the top of the page (directly under the strapline) makes it more noticeable than its current location. To promote uniformity, the same could be done with Categories, Topics,

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About odd aspect sizes, this organization has been present in my design since about October 2008, and it's looked fine to me every day.. if the image is larger than 400px in width, the text is moved to below the picture, so the text won't be squished to the right. Yes, the two columns are of

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Yes, many DYK become stagnant after their moments in the spotlight, but many GAs stall at that level, and I'm sure the trend would continue if they had access to the Main Page. That, to me, is not a huge concern to me. DYK and FA contrast each other to the extend where we don't need to show

2901:. I don't care if the text was 200px away from overlapping the image; it had scrollbars, and that's not good. I would have been fine with the "fix," but it was hardly that. About 30px of the header was off the page, causing the user to have to scroll right to see it. Like I said: 1966:

In the time dimension they are the beginning, but in terms of quality they are intermediate. FA and GA ar not based on time, they are based on quality. On rare occaision I have had an article make GA before becoming a DYK, so it is not always the case that DYK is first (see

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us nowhere. There is still an open conversation about the languages section.. another about the "Other Areas of Knowledge (XXG)" section.. and another about the header (and possibly more).. We need to bring back these conversations and restore the organization of before. --

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I think the conclusion from this is that an open ended redesign proposal is bound to fail given the nature of the wiki consensus process. I suggest that in the future focused proposals should be brought up instead: clear goals should be stated of what redesigning some

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opposes above 1. I oppose this idea becaue vaguely related ideas have been opposed and I oppose this idea because it exposes the reader to the review process. I don't think either of these is really valid, but the army will do anything to keep GAs off the main page.--

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That's a good idea. I always thought the old design didn't provide a chance to explain to the public what is a portal. I have implemented your suggestion. As for categories, is it really necessary since this term is commonly used in general (both on & off-wiki)?

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I actually thought I'd replied to this already haha. I changed the code up there to what I had intended to include in the proposal. The reference desk, since it doesn't apply to only Knowledge (XXG), shouldn't be under Help. Help desk handles only questions about

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to choose to feature the lower quality of these two on the main page and not the higher. There is not very sound reason why we should feature the lower quality of our intermediate stage work, IMO. Please note that there is no glorification argument presented.--

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another important point: in the list format GAs will be advertised right after they are promoted, so they're unlikely to have degraded significantly (some FAs have had more than 2 years delay between promotion and main page display; granted they were about dead

3457:. I think its currency, broad relevance, potential impact, and probably lengthy duration indicate its importance with regard to current events. Further, the topic has serious depth, as how it affects different countries is complex and requires treatment. 1036:. These show the reader what's currently going on and what they can do to help Knowledge (XXG)... a great way to encourage editing. The purpose of the main page is to attract readers, but subtle invites like this can increase our editors as well. -- 3446:' section to the main page. The reason is that there are ongoing issues which are current and relevant, regardless of when they start, which appears to be the guiding principle regarding how long links are displayed in the current events section. 2905:. I remember you saying you sometimes get in a hurry and just skim-read... but I mean dang, that was the first thing I said. I don't mean to sound angry, but please read every word in comments and make sure you comprehend them before replying. -- 1679:

betterment of the project. Why do you think we should put more emphasis on DYKs than GAs. We just need to rework the format of GAs so that the novice does not jump in to the editorial process. Maybe we could just remove "(you can help!)"--

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The gray in which the letters from the globe are painted is too dark to be placed right under the text "Welcome". It causes momentary visual confusion as to which letters you're supposed to be reading and it looks unprofessional. Try the

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I have noticed that this link is being taken off in the new design. However, I would like to point out that the definition of portal is "to help readers and/or editors navigate their way through Knowledge (XXG) topic areas through pages

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some fairly useful links that I feel deserve to remain on the page. I propose changing the name of the "Other areas of Knowledge (XXG)" section to the more suited "About Knowledge (XXG)" and linking to the following (seen in context at

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they were. It took me a while to figure out exactly what they were (and btw most portals are kind of abandoned). The only way I'd think about supporting a Portals link would be to include an explanation of what they were.. maybe like "

1050:"Help" and "questions" have a high degree of overlap. It's also quite confusing having both "questions" and FAQ. "(Where to ask Questions)" should be added to the FAQ and Help, but there's little point in having it on the main page. 252:

I thought about this for a while, and I'm opposing giving featured media priority over DYK on the main page, i.e. putting featured media above DYK. Knowledge (XXG) should still be mainly about articles, not trying to compete with

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to Knowledge (XXG) content". If it's taken off the Main Page, then you just lost the purpose of "entry points". We don't need a link to every major subject's portal, but I believe we should have at least a link that points to

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It was organized by various issues, but as the discussion got underway, it became difficult to separate the active discussions from the inanctive ones, hence a massive archiving binge. Go through the archives, it's all there.

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I think this arrangement complements the header nicely by re-adding some of the important links that were taken out and removing some of the lesser used links in the "Other areas of Knowledge (XXG)" section now. Comments?

991:"Help desk" I really believe in the "Help desk" and "Reference desk", and I don't think they should be removed; they would supposedly be encompassed under "Questions", however I feel they should be more prominent. 3681: 3691: 3686: 3676: 536:

I agree with your sentiments, I don't think less entry points on the main page is the best approach. This current proposal design seems to be moving towards a minimalist form. I like the approach taken in

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the spectrum. Why not include A-class articles? Or B-Class? All of those are classes on the internal rating scale, and are higher quality than DYK. They are usually rated by one editor, much like GA. ∗

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I don't really have an opinion yet, but I'm just wondering, how accurate is it to consider DYK as a "first step" on the way to FA? Sure, some DYK articles do go on to become FA or GA (there is even a

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If people want to continue to discuss it, they're free to do so, I don't see why it needs a special tag to declare it dead, though it ought to be renamed to reflect the current status. Something like

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The two columns are unbalanced at the bottom. This could be fixed by adding more stuff to the right columns, but that content is of lesser importance. At least I never read the "on this day" stuff.

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I remmeber we've brought this up before, about recoloring the featured contents to a sort of gold color; and that we were about the implement it. However, before we do so, what do you guys think?

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all of which have been ITN this year but in reality are just a flash in the pan. This sounds like it would be useful, particularly in the event of any historic or ongoing event on the scale of

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Perhaps another section for meteorological events such as hurricanes, storms, unusual amounts of snowfall, solar and lunar eclipses of note that are about to or are currently happening? --➨♀♂

541:(screen shot only, preview link broken). Although there has been general disapproval of portal images, having more links in the welcome bar makes the main page a springboard for browsing. -- 3646: 3641: 3701: 1873:, is about 15,000). I don't think that necessarily changes either of your arguments (since DYKs are still new content, no matter what their future holds); I just wanted to point it out. 201:

Finally, this moves the DYK area where most people would need to scroll to see it. The conceptual question to ask here is: do we want to emphasize featured media more than new articles?

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of the main page is trying to achieve, and also explain to the editors that lack knowledge of web/graphic design why the proposed changes are an improvement—then go for site-wide RfC.

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that makes the columns equal in length; if this design is implemented, that code could be put in the common.js... And finally about DYK... In my opinion Featured Media is just that..

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Why do the GAs need exposure? The recently reviewed articles stands out, as it is a open door to the engine room of Knowledge (XXG) - something many readers may be turned away by. ∗

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a point in putting an article which is not our best work on the main page simply to glorify its author. Having a recently reviewed section would simply confuse the reader - many

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That sounds like a good idea, however before we begin; what would your justification be if I said no? You have to remember that if we propose this, everything will be vetted.

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resolutions. I would like the date/article count to be top-aligned and the links to be bottom-aligned to kind of "edge out" the box.. it's more aesthetically pleasing. --

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that keeps track of them) but many more get pretty much ignored after their 15 minutes of fame (I don't know how many exactly, but my guess, from counting the entries at

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the beginning - they are mostly new articles. But alas, there is no point wasting more server space, I'd prefer see some other peoples opinions rather than my own. :P ∗

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Agreed, sadly. At one point, it appeared that things were turning around, but that proved not to be the case (for reasons on which I would prefer not to elaborate). —

3479: 695:) so it doesn't seem like we're singling portals out. I think TOC and Index are already recognizeable to the general public, so explanations would be unnecessary. -- 1751:

understand the progression as you say, we could show them first stage review articles. I just don't understand the logic that DYK deserves more exposure than GA.--

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The alignment gets worse with three items on the left and two on the right. Not incredibly upsetting, but it's worse than what's currently on the redsign proposal.

3567: 1369:(outdent) I've added the "Reference desk" and "Help desk" to the mock up here on the page, what do you guys think? If there are some more opinions out there. 2558: 2377: 2196: 606:

categories might get axed to cut down on info overload, but I never understoof why we have one but not the other. (Is the term "Portals" self-explanatory?)--

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think that the FA articles are finished, and can understand that the New Pages are works in progress, but the GA section? I'm not sure it has an appeal.∗

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This page has been rather quiet in the past weeks. Is there still development ongoing in this proposal, or has it completely stalled to a standstill? --

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I like the idea of changing the colour, but that particular shade of yellow/gold feels a little washed out. Maybe something slightly more vibrant. --

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Ah my fault. Sorry about that; didn't notice the proposal box above. I see what you're talking about now; sorry for going off haha. Apparently

1870: 109:, not only is it centered, but the item is in a frame. I think this lends it a little more importance, and makes the item seem more central. -- 3268:

most of which were infeasible and/or opposed by consensus), with no regard for why the current main page was set up in the manner that it was.

1082:"Navigation" should be indented under "Help" if its going to be kept at all. Does anyone have stats about how often that page gets accessed? 2519: 2338: 2157: 309:

Just a suggestion... perhaps we should organize this page so it's easier to see all the ideas floating around. I'd suggest we first define

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Overviews, etc.. all the links in the strapline. All descriptions should be moved to the top of the page.. kind of like a lead section. --

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would be or are involved in the MPRP are taking a break so that after the holidays we can start without the cold shadow of past disputes.

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There has to be a way to give GAs as much exposure as DYKs without haveing a problem with the novice reader jumping into the process.--

1068:, which is merely an essay be featured on the main page under the "guidelines" link? That essay is quite poorly organized, by the way. 3271:

But at no point did anyone demand that these drafts be abandoned. (In fact, a major objection to the straw poll was that its outcome

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Nicely phrased. Over-simplifying can do more harm than good. We can add that portal link between "Table of Contents" and "Categories"

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odd list of pages. I think we should add "Policies and Guidelines", we need to introduce it somehow. I'm with Nick on the remainder.

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Currently featured media is aligned to page left, but I think centering images and other media would be better. I like the style in

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The large amount of white space on the sides looks strange. It gives the impression that's a formatting error or missing content.

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begin to compare to the top three designs from the straw poll. There's little point in continuing after this silent sabotage.

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to improve visibility of the GA process (and reviews in general) on the main page. This change is related to the following

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I agree with Xasodfuih; it looks out of place. I think Featured Media should actually be moved into the left column (as in

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the insurance cost of the fires may be ~AU$ 500 million. While the insurance companies are obviously not commenting yet

3507: 2482: 2470: 2301: 2289: 2120: 2108: 1886: 2823: 2761: 1953: 1902: 1832: 1784: 1737: 1665: 1619: 939: 3303:"silent sabotage" is a gross mischaracterization. You do yourself no favors by using such poorly chosen words. -- 3057:

The logo and the text should not over lap at 800x600. After this issue, I think the MPRP is effectively complete.

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boxes makes more sense, but only if there is a rationale behind doing so - not just to 'prettify' things. --

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I can't understand the logic in why GA should be included, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree? :) ∗

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it avoids the adjective "good" (I'd like to see unified review process for B/GA see the links above)

1033: 3575: 3544: 3511: 3417: 3328: 3153: 3098: 3058: 2996: 2933: 2876: 2834: 2654: 2578: 2465:. After he spoke out against the government, he was made to leave the army. In 1941 he joined the 2462: 2284:. After he spoke out against the government, he was made to leave the army. In 1941 he joined the 2281: 2103:. After he spoke out against the government, he was made to leave the army. In 1941 he joined the 2100: 1543: 1524: 1460: 1420: 1370: 1346: 1252: 1087: 1073: 1055: 1011: 641: 574: 464: 441: 351: 270: 206: 156: 138: 764: 688: 3721: 3352: 3308: 3087: 3076: 2800: 2741: 2695: 2434: 2253: 2072: 91: 3071:

I've been asked to offer feedback on the appearance. I find it tasteful, inviting, and clear. --

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fairly well methinks, but it could be improved (smaller font; move under "Other areas" heading?)

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I fear that media with odd aspect sizes may cause problems when there's less room to work with.

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was the one that skim read :P. I don't really like the smaller text; after all, one of the

2903:

While it fixed the text overlap problem, it messed up other things with smaller resolutions

2853:, though, and have made small changes/optimizations to the code. Mind if I copy it over? -- 1492:

there's only a list of articles; so it scales if the GA review rate speeds up significantly

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Agreed, but I'm not too eager to go back at it…but we still don't have anything useful.--

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A US$ 1.4 billion fraud is just a flash in the pan? Are you serious? P.S. According to

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Yes, if they click on "All portals", they will see the definition of Portal instantly.

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Just a note to alert those who aren't already aware, there is currently a proposal to

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we definatley want on the Main Page. Once we reach a consensus, then we could define

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going to overlap for some it might as well overlap for everyone, for consistency. --

2653:

to itself, nevertheless we can change that. See the example box for the variations.

238:. It deserves to be higher up than new articles that may or may not be up to par. -- 2503: 2494: 2438: 2425: 2322: 2313: 2257: 2244: 2141: 2132: 2076: 2063: 1141:

message" when I came to Knowledge (XXG), so I'm sure many others didn't as well. --

3482:. Weather events such as these tend to get more development than articles such as 2457:

officer before and during World War I. During the interwar period, he joined the

2276:

officer before and during World War I. During the interwar period, he joined the

2095:

officer before and during World War I. During the interwar period, he joined the

459:, it does have a good alignment with the FA box underneath and guides you to it. 2489:, successfully ran for the Austrian presidency in the 1980s. In addition to the 2308:, successfully ran for the Austrian presidency in the 1980s. In addition to the 2127:, successfully ran for the Austrian presidency in the 1980s. In addition to the 1875: 1189:

Looks good to me. And really? You didn't get a welcome message? I got one on my

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It was organized before, and we have a list of what we want (top of archive 4);

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it's right above to the list of other internal process areas of Knowledge (XXG)

843:, as has previously been discussed before in Main Page redesign discussions. 3499: 3474:

Yes. I see what you mean. The weather, for example, at the minute, i.e. the

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I added two more links to the div above: "Current projects," which links to

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has an explicit pointer to the process, and an invitation for (new) editors

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and purple). I suggest you ask that page/project's participants for input.

881:— A general help directory about anything and everything Knowledge (XXG) 814:

The question mark "?" looks very awkard under Firefox after the change.

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The issue was brought up by David, you can find it in archive 4 under "

3682:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Proposal_Candidate_2A

1495:

it's in a much less prominent place and does not single out an article

1392:.. which fits under Help.. but Reference desk handles questions about 951:— An explanation of how to access Knowledge (XXG) from a mobile device 907:— An explanation of wikilinks and other methods of navigating the site 3692:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Proposal_Cannidate_1

3687:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Proposal_Candidate_3

3677:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Proposal_Candidate_2

520:, and I do not think this aspect of the Main Page should be changed. 943:— Ask volunteers encyclopaedic questions about a variety of subjects 424:. What do people think? I'll be adding more things as time goes on. 317:

the things we want will look on the Main Page. What do you think? --

137:

Let's contact the POTD wikiproject and see if they want to comment.

3672:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Nat/Gamma/Content

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This "proposal" was a failure from the start and should be tagged

3090:—no article on the wiki I guess nobody here ever heard of it. See 3667:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/MySurvivorPartay

3657:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Main_Page_Draft

3652:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/LesleyAnnWarren

3209:

Well, it's still under-development by the looks of the history.

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haha, so it shouldn't go under there but in the other column. --

915:— A brief help page about how to effectively search for articles 3514:- the type of event that ITN seems to have been built on. --➨♀♂ 3276:

and effort trying to win the "competition"—already had left. —

3662:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Morrismaciver

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to accomplish the tasks seems to be where the challenges are.

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Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Jennavecia_2

3642:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Deathgleaner

3627:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Calliopejen1

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lots more attention, it'll blossom into something amazing. --

420:

I've made a draft of some ideas (at least for the header) at

3702:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Yaki-gaijin

1542:

created a sandbox in your userspace and expand on the idea.

935:— On-going projects on which editors are currently focusing 3637:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Chexmix53

763:(outdent) I could go for that. I think the top section of 3632:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Casliber

2485:. This became controversial when his onetime translator, 2304:. This became controversial when his onetime translator, 2123:. This became controversial when his onetime translator, 3697:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/Shekure

2606:

Just like the current scheme and don't like the change.

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attention. Although it's not a terribly useful message

25: 3707:

Knowledge (XXG):2008_main_page_redesign_proposal/tompw

897:— Ask volunteers questions about using Knowledge (XXG) 3427:

Proposal to add an ongoing issues and events section

254: 2679:portal and all it's subpages are green (ditto for 959:— Information about how to contact Knowledge (XXG) 259:File:Dew_on_a_Equisetum_fluviatile_Luc_Viatour.jpg 1155:I've update the links; what do you guys think? -- 2402: 2221: 2040: 518:current presentation of Portals on the Main Page 927:— An explanation of how to edit Knowledge (XXG) 2444:SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS 2429:(29 November 1881 – 21 September 1944) was an 2263:SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS 2248:(29 November 1881 – 21 September 1944) was an 2082:SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS 2067:(29 November 1881 – 21 September 1944) was an 1032:and "Pages needing attention," which leads to 500:so readers know what they will expect to see. 2477:mountain divisions and one corps in occupied 2296:mountain divisions and one corps in occupied 2115:mountain divisions and one corps in occupied 841:move the search bar to the top of the sidebar 8: 3370:Sufficient time has gone by. I've tagged it 889:— An outline of where to ask which questions 691:)". The same could be done with categories ( 569:categories would be to simply add the link " 257:. Take for instance today's featured media, 2033:Background's white, likely used for the FA 2897:Slight overlap? Read the first sentence: 2778: 1451:to improve the referencing of articles ( 3461:are news, in quite another. Thoughts? - 1507:the above four points visually suggest 787:specialized tools for the wikielite. -- 2675:I prefer the current green color. The 2214:Offwhite, likely for DYK, ITN, and OTD 1871:Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Dyktalk 767:(the blue box) and the description on 2497:, and, posthumously, was awarded the 2316:, and, posthumously, was awarded the 2135:, and, posthumously, was awarded the 7: 3455:Global financial crisis of 2008–2009 2395:Less intense yellow, likely for POTD 3450:them further, and with more depth. 3345:2012 main page minor tweak proposal 3442:I'm proposing the addition of an ' 1874: 1066:Knowledge (XXG):Simplified_ruleset 14: 2677:Knowledge (XXG):Featured articles 265:, is too short to even be a DYK. 3049: 2899:horizontal scrollbars on 800x600 2520:1894–95 New Brompton F.C. season 2491:Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross 2416: 2339:1894–95 New Brompton F.C. season 2310:Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross 2235: 2158:1894–95 New Brompton F.C. season 2129:Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross 2054: 2023:Recoloring the featured contents 232:User:Dudemanfellabra/monobook.js 38: 2453:during World War II. He was an 2272:during World War II. He was an 2091:during World War II. He was an 3488:2009 Kenyan oil spill ignition 3484:2009 Gabonese helicopter crash 2526:The Girl Who Lived in the Tree 2345:The Girl Who Lived in the Tree 2164:The Girl Who Lived in the Tree 1867:wonderful and super sexy table 1485:This is fairly different from 858:Other areas of Knowledge (XXG) 1: 3726:17:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC) 3422:07:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 3395:02:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 2851:User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox2 2794:Saturday September 21, 2024 ( 1999:01:28, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 1962:01:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 1944:01:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 1911:00:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 1892:00:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 1841:00:20, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 1826:23:16, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 1793:21:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 1779:15:08, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 1746:12:14, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 1707:07:33, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 1674:05:16, 27 February 2009 (UTC) 1660:22:02, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 1628:20:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 1000:"Community portal" no comment 870: 865:User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox2 655:being seen or used at all. -- 450:03:57, 30 December 2008 (UTC) 434:18:48, 28 December 2008 (UTC) 360:04:00, 30 December 2008 (UTC) 338:15:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC) 327:12:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC) 147:05:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC) 132:04:15, 28 December 2008 (UTC) 3613:16:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3580:10:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC) 3553:04:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC) 3535:16:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3508:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake 3469:09:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3362:04:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC) 3337:04:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC) 3313:04:18, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3281:03:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3247:01:21, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3220:00:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC) 3197:19:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC) 3184:19:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC) 3144:18:51, 6 February 2009 (UTC) 3103:06:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC) 3081:05:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC) 3067:04:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC) 3037:00:05, 17 January 2009 (UTC) 3005:06:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC) 2981:05:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC) 2942:04:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC) 2915:04:09, 16 January 2009 (UTC) 2885:03:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC) 2863:05:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC) 2843:04:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC) 2735:Saturday 09 September 2024 ( 2700:06:37, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 2686:Changing the colours of the 2663:03:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 2644:23:27, 13 January 2009 (UTC) 2617:13:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC) 2602:23:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC) 2483:Independent State of Croatia 2302:Independent State of Croatia 2121:Independent State of Croatia 1597:15:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC) 1429:04:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 1406:04:32, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 1379:03:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 1355:23:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC) 1097:standard welcome message. -- 3480:snowfall on the Irish Isles 2810: 2793: 2587:03:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1552:03:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1529:18:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1481:18:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1465:17:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1324:23:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1284:04:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1261:03:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1242:03:09, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1216:01:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1165:04:08, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 1151:04:00, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 1120:03:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 1092:19:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1078:19:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1060:19:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1046:18:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1020:04:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 983:02:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC) 853:00:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 825:02:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC) 810:21:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 782:19:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 749:15:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 721:18:38, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 705:17:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 678:14:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 650:07:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 626:07:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 611:22:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 598:21:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 583:20:57, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 564:18:46, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 532:14:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 511:14:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 469:20:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 404:18:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 383:18:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 299:18:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 275:13:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 248:21:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 211:20:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 185:20:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 161:20:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 3741: 2780:Welcome to Knowledge (XXG) 2720:Welcome to Knowledge (XXG) 1439:Display GA list (proposal) 994:"Reference desk" see above 486:. In essence, portals are 15: 3444:ongoing issues and events 3437:: Please respond there :) 2772:Dudemanfellabra Sponsored 2493:, Phleps was awarded the 2461:and became an adviser to 2312:, Phleps was awarded the 2280:and became an adviser to 2131:, Phleps was awarded the 2099:and became an adviser to 997:"Village pump" no comment 422:User:Davidpk212/Main Page 261:; the companion article, 2501:to his Knight's Cross. ( 2407:Today's featured article 2320:to his Knight's Cross. ( 2226:Today's featured article 2139:to his Knight's Cross. ( 2045:Today's featured article 1969:Talk:Scott Smith (mayor) 483:similar to the Main Page 101:Centering Featured media 3453:At issue for me is the 2469:. He saw action on the 2288:. He saw action on the 2107:. He saw action on the 988:The links removed are: 769:Portal:Contents/Portals 498:Portal:Contents/Portals 2552:More featured articles 2371:More featured articles 2190:More featured articles 1193:from when I joined. -- 765:Knowledge (XXG):Portal 3588:Meteorological events 2592:Looks great to me :D 2455:Austro-Hungarian Army 2274:Austro-Hungarian Army 2093:Austro-Hungarian Army 3504:September 11 attacks 3117:Development ongoing? 2932:how the text wraps? 2495:German Cross in Gold 2314:German Cross in Gold 2133:German Cross in Gold 189:Ho, hum about that: 3512:2008 Mumbai attacks 3476:Victorian bushfires 2648:Ok, I've created a 2510:Recently featured: 2473:before raising two 2441:officer who was an 2329:Recently featured: 2292:before raising two 2260:officer who was an 2148:Recently featured: 2111:before raising two 2079:officer who was an 1030:WP:Community portal 3492:Enten controversy 3392: 3181: 2873:Assorted comments 2829: 2828: 2812:Table of contents 2785:free encyclopedia 2768: 2767: 2750:Table of contents 2573: 2572: 2569: 2568: 2515:Addie Viola Smith 2392: 2391: 2388: 2387: 2334:Addie Viola Smith 2211: 2210: 2207: 2206: 2153:Addie Viola Smith 1997: 1942: 1899:the middle ground 1890: 1824: 1777: 1727: 1705: 1658: 1595: 1487:Lapman's proposal 965: 964: 726:user friendly. -- 98: 97: 79: 78: 3732: 3618:Orphan proposals 3610: 3597: 3532: 3519: 3390: 3387: 3384: 3379: 3373: 3360: 3243: 3179: 3176: 3173: 3168: 3162: 3158: 3152: 3139: 3130: 3125: 3053: 3032: 3023: 3018: 2776: 2775: 2773: 2716: 2715: 2713: 2639: 2630: 2625: 2598: 2431:Austro-Hungarian 2420: 2403: 2399: 2398: 2250:Austro-Hungarian 2239: 2222: 2218: 2217: 2069:Austro-Hungarian 2058: 2041: 2037: 2036: 1975: 1920: 1883: 1879: 1802: 1755: 1725: 1683: 1636: 1573: 1509:work in progress 1319: 1310: 1305: 1211: 1202: 1197: 1115: 1106: 1101: 932:Current projects 871: 849: 805: 796: 791: 744: 735: 730: 673: 664: 659: 559: 550: 545: 127: 118: 113: 93: 53: 52: 42: 34: 28: 3740: 3739: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3731: 3730: 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2298:Yugoslavia 2282:King Carol 2137:Oak Leaves 2117:Yugoslavia 2101:King Carol 1990:WP:CHICAGO 1948:Most DYKs 1935:WP:CHICAGO 1817:WP:CHICAGO 1770:WP:CHICAGO 1698:WP:CHICAGO 1651:WP:CHICAGO 1588:WP:CHICAGO 1453:discussion 1443:I've made 1394:everything 1034:WP:BACKLOG 956:Contact us 904:Navigation 835:Search bar 608:HereToHelp 426:Davidpk212 401:HereToHelp 335:HereToHelp 319:PostScript 3572:Nil Einne 3500:Titanoboa 3414:Xasodfuih 3347:perhaps. 3095:Xasodfuih 2801:6,885,710 2742:6,885,710 2475:Waffen-SS 2467:Waffen-SS 2450:Waffen-SS 2294:Waffen-SS 2286:Waffen-SS 2269:Waffen-SS 2113:Waffen-SS 2105:Waffen-SS 2088:Waffen-SS 1521:Xasodfuih 1457:Xasodfuih 1191:talk page 1084:Xasodfuih 1070:Xasodfuih 1052:Xasodfuih 894:Help desk 886:Questions 461:Xasodfuih 267:Xasodfuih 263:Guttation 255:photo.net 203:Xasodfuih 153:Xasodfuih 74:Archive 4 67:Archive 3 62:Archive 2 57:Archive 1 26:WP:2008MP 3718:Cenarium 3478:and the 3375:rejected 3305:Quiddity 3137:contribs 3073:Arcadian 3030:contribs 2692:Quiddity 2637:contribs 2545:By email 2435:Romanian 2364:By email 2254:Romanian 2183:By email 2073:Romanian 1887:contribs 1449:proposal 1317:contribs 1209:contribs 1113:contribs 803:contribs 742:contribs 671:contribs 602:Portals 557:contribs 236:Featured 125:contribs 45:Archives 18:Shortcut 3466:vertigo 3242:retzels 3129:Penguin 3022:Penguin 2820:Portals 2805:English 2754:Portals 2746:English 2650:mock up 2629:Penguin 2538:Archive 2447:in the 2357:Archive 2266:in the 2176:Archive 2085:in the 2028:Example 1994:WP:LOTM 1939:WP:LOTM 1821:WP:LOTM 1774:WP:LOTM 1702:WP:LOTM 1655:WP:LOTM 1592:WP:LOTM 1515:people) 1309:Penguin 1201:Penguin 1105:Penguin 924:Editing 848:retzels 795:Penguin 734:Penguin 685:Portals 663:Penguin 571:Portals 549:Penguin 489:useful 117:Penguin 3714:WT:DBR 3712:(from 3622:Here: 3383:auburn 3172:auburn 3164:failed 2596:Garden 912:Search 475:Portal 457:per se 3496:ATryn 3386:pilot 3175:pilot 3055:Fixed 2824:Index 2787:that 2762:Index 2727:that 2688:other 2681:WP:FP 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