222:
204:
173:
142:
466:
for the former and an em dash or ellipsis dots for "no data" ... If this distinction is not clear from the text, a note may be added to the table. (Alternatively, the abbreviations n/a and n.d. may be used, with definitions given in a note.) A zero means literally that the quantity in a cell is zero....
465:
Section 3.65: Empty cells. If a column head does not apply to one of the entries in the stub, the cell should either be left blank or, better, filled in by an em dash or three unspaced ellipsis dots. If a distinction is needed between "not applicable" and "no data available," a blank cell may be used
542:
That whole table is messed up so trying to workaround one bad part of it, won't really "fix" it. Look at the "Career statistics" section, 5 of the 9 rows have cell content unrelated to the column headers. Separate the tables, make better column headers, remove bad usage of bold. Not everything needs
495:
Thank you for the in-depth response on this. I played around with the table, although it is very limited, and both seem to sort in the same manner. I guess with the widespread use of the template and outside style manuals saying that is more preferable, I think I can end the edit war with using that
453:
indicates that it is a "common abbreviation in tables". Using one over the other seems more like a preference since to me they both indicate the same thing. Regardless of which one is used, it should match the same usage in other tables found on the same page and follow
66:
129:
125:
526:
be worked around by adding "id=colX is empty. In row13 you can found...." or a hidden comment with a similar message to indicate to screen readers that more content can be found in the next row instead of rearranging the rows?
457:
Just to see what other manuals of style suggest, I searched and found the
Chicago Manual of Style suggested using an em dash, ellipsis, n/a, or n.d. with some rules around the latter two abbreviations (see
823:
764:
Same, but also those sorts of tables aren't meant to be read linearly ... they're supposed to be read with table navigation commands (control+alt+arrows in NVDA's case), which works as expected.
51:
481:
As an added note, the "N/a" template uses the "data-sort-value" attribute, so sorting it versus the "N/A" text may order them differently unless the same attribute is used on the text version.
632:, I get you. I am going to make a push in favor of the visually impaired. Hopefully, it sticks. The minority needs to be tended to as well not just the ones blessed with the gift to see.
233:, a group of editors promoting better access for disabled or otherwise disadvantaged users. For more information, such as what you can do to help, see the main project page.
133:
577:) which passes MOS:COLHEAD in my project's community, but people are used to one design, prevalent in 100s of tennis BLPs. The new look meets accessibility criteria
449:, which displays an em dash, is used on approximately 47,000 pages, so in a way you could say it is an acceptable option. I don't know the number of "N/A" uses, but
21:
865:
101:
792:
Not really. Screen reader users will just get used to having a blank cell (with information hopefully about the row spans) and things will be fine.
270:
I created a table, which has became the subject of an edit war between admins and an anon editor. The table is as below (prior to the edit war):
445:. If the intention is to indicate that the data wasn't overlooked as a blank cell might suggest, then using either one seems sufficient to me.
400:
326:
442:
441:
I couldn't find any recommended styles for empty cells. Maybe someone else might find something? I found a similar unanswered question here:
107:
523:
229:
209:
404:
330:
851:
801:
787:
773:
752:
734:
720:
701:
673:
659:
641:
623:
609:
562:
552:
536:
505:
490:
476:
428:
459:
47:
17:
692:: the correct way is to split the "Zack Snyder" cell into two cells with the same date or are they just fine as they are?
96:
614:
Yeah, not surprised. There are some places I'll never touch just because I don't want to deal with that type of editors.
184:
156:
650:
That is something I originally proposed, but you know, some kinds of compromise have to take as this is
Knowledge. :)
376:
302:
87:
141:
120:
392:
318:
152:
655:
221:
203:
847:
834:
when a row header spans two rows..." Can a combination of those be used when a column spans multiple rows
669:
637:
605:
532:
486:
472:
501:
424:
190:
689:
783:
748:
716:
697:
651:
572:
77:
797:
769:
730:
581:
for screen reader users but offsets the sighted who are used to the old design...a balancing act.
568:
396:
322:
157:
92:
419:
Does the template {{N/A}} conform to the MOS for a table such as this? Should it be used or not?
843:
665:
633:
601:
528:
482:
468:
73:
619:
548:
497:
436:
420:
154:
779:
759:
744:
712:
693:
587:
859:
793:
765:
740:
726:
595:
446:
629:
615:
558:
544:
519:
826:
it says "To clearly define relationships and avoid accessibility issues, use
725:
They're fine as they are. VoiceOver isn't that good with this kind of thing.
824:
Knowledge:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial#Complex tables
664:
I know. It is the bitter sweet truth. You can't please everybody.
344:
The following is the edit that is made, which has been reverted.
578:
367:
293:
450:
370:
296:
166:
158:
42:
29:
688:
Hi, are the cells spanned on multiple rows accessible? E.g.,
778:
But in this way the header column loses its meaning, right?
461:). Note, the Chicago MoS doesn't dictate Knowledge's MoS.
409:
Redesignated as 1 Commando
Brigade, on 6 December 1944.
335:
Redesignated as 1 Commando
Brigade, on 6 December 1944.
711:row, the Apple VoiceOver skips the director's name
565:(pinging those involved in creating the new design
52:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial
443:Knowledge talk:Manual of Style/Tables#Empty cells
389:Italy, UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany
315:Italy, UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany
8:
584:Maybe remove the rows and replace them with
830:when a column header spans two columns and
707:I state that because if I try to read the
346:
272:
198:
183:does not require a rating on Knowledge's
375:
301:
200:
838:and when a row spans multiple columns
464:
401:Allied advance from Paris to the Rhine
327:Allied advance from Paris to the Rhine
364:
352:
290:
278:
7:
361:
358:
355:
287:
284:
281:
172:
170:
239:Knowledge:WikiProject Accessibility
189:It is of interest to the following
50:for discussing improvements to the
866:WikiProject Accessibility articles
405:Western Allied invasion of Germany
331:Western Allied invasion of Germany
242:Template:WikiProject Accessibility
28:
832:! scope="rowgroup" rowspan="2" |
828:! scope="colgroup" colspan="2" |
514:MOS:COLHEAD potential workaround?
348:List of special service brigades
274:List of special service brigades
227:This page is within the scope of
743:I get the same result with NVDA
220:
202:
171:
140:
67:Click here to start a new topic.
18:Knowledge talk:Manual of Style
1:
359:Wartime date ceased to exist
285:Wartime date ceased to exist
64:Put new text under old text.
840:scope="colgroup" rowspan="2"
836:scope="rowgroup" colspan="2"
408:
391:
388:
380:
334:
317:
314:
311:
306:
852:12:00, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
377:1st Special Service Brigade
303:1st Special Service Brigade
72:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
882:
690:DC Extended Universe#Films
543:to be in one giant table.
411:
337:
802:18:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
788:18:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
774:17:39, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
753:16:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
735:15:51, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
721:15:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
702:14:43, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
393:Allied invasion of Sicily
319:Allied invasion of Sicily
230:WikiProject Accessibility
215:
197:
102:Be welcoming to newcomers
36:Skip to table of contents
674:10:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
660:06:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
642:16:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
624:16:48, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
610:16:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
553:06:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
537:23:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
506:17:25, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
491:14:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
477:13:46, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
429:11:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
35:
818:Colgroups and rowgroups
684:Cells on multiple rows
245:Accessibility articles
97:avoid personal attacks
134:Auto-archiving period
365:Notable campaign(s)
291:Notable campaign(s)
842:in complex tables?
362:Location(s) served
349:
288:Location(s) served
275:
266:Row with blank data
347:
273:
185:content assessment
108:dispute resolution
69:
709:Batman v Superman
416:
415:
412:Source info here
342:
341:
338:Source info here
261:
260:
257:
256:
253:
252:
165:
164:
88:Assume good faith
65:
41:
40:
873:
841:
837:
833:
829:
763:
599:
591:
576:
563:improved version
561:, I proposed an
440:
383:
350:
309:
276:
247:
246:
243:
240:
237:
224:
217:
216:
206:
199:
176:
175:
174:
167:
159:
145:
144:
135:
43:
30:
881:
880:
876:
875:
874:
872:
871:
870:
856:
855:
839:
835:
831:
827:
820:
757:
686:
593:
585:
566:
516:
434:
381:
353:Formation name
307:
279:Formation name
268:
244:
241:
238:
235:
234:
161:
160:
155:
132:
114:
113:
83:
26:
25:
24:
12:
11:
5:
879:
877:
869:
868:
858:
857:
819:
816:
815:
814:
813:
812:
811:
810:
809:
808:
807:
806:
805:
804:
685:
682:
681:
680:
679:
678:
677:
676:
652:Unnamelessness
648:
647:
646:
645:
644:
582:
573:Unnamelessness
515:
512:
511:
510:
509:
508:
479:
462:
455:
418:
414:
413:
410:
407:
390:
387:
384:
379:
373:
372:
369:
366:
363:
360:
357:
354:
340:
339:
336:
333:
316:
313:
310:
305:
299:
298:
295:
292:
289:
286:
283:
280:
267:
264:
259:
258:
255:
254:
251:
250:
248:
225:
213:
212:
207:
195:
194:
188:
177:
163:
162:
153:
151:
150:
147:
146:
116:
115:
112:
111:
104:
99:
90:
84:
82:
81:
70:
61:
60:
57:
56:
55:
39:
38:
33:
27:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
878:
867:
864:
863:
861:
854:
853:
849:
845:
825:
817:
803:
799:
795:
791:
790:
789:
785:
781:
777:
776:
775:
771:
767:
761:
756:
755:
754:
750:
746:
742:
738:
737:
736:
732:
728:
724:
723:
722:
718:
714:
710:
706:
705:
704:
703:
699:
695:
691:
683:
675:
671:
667:
663:
662:
661:
657:
653:
649:
643:
639:
635:
631:
627:
626:
625:
621:
617:
613:
612:
611:
607:
603:
597:
589:
583:
580:
574:
570:
569:Fyunck(click)
564:
560:
556:
555:
554:
550:
546:
541:
540:
539:
538:
534:
530:
525:
522:violation in
521:
513:
507:
503:
499:
494:
493:
492:
488:
484:
480:
478:
474:
470:
467:
463:
460:
456:
452:
448:
444:
438:
433:
432:
431:
430:
426:
422:
406:
402:
398:
394:
385:
382:November 1943
378:
374:
351:
345:
332:
328:
324:
320:
308:November 1943
304:
300:
277:
271:
265:
263:
249:
236:Accessibility
232:
231:
226:
223:
219:
218:
214:
211:
210:Accessibility
208:
205:
201:
196:
192:
186:
182:
178:
169:
168:
149:
148:
143:
139:
131:
127:
124:
122:
118:
117:
109:
105:
103:
100:
98:
94:
91:
89:
86:
85:
79:
75:
74:Learn to edit
71:
68:
63:
62:
59:
58:
53:
49:
45:
44:
37:
34:
32:
31:
23:
22:Accessibility
19:
844:Qwerty284651
821:
708:
687:
666:Qwerty284651
634:Qwerty284651
602:Qwerty284651
529:Qwerty284651
517:
483:Jroberson108
469:Jroberson108
447:Template:N/a
417:
356:Date formed
343:
282:Date formed
269:
262:
228:
191:WikiProjects
181:project page
180:
137:
119:
46:This is the
520:MOS:COLHEAD
498:EnigmaMcmxc
437:EnigmaMcmxc
421:EnigmaMcmxc
454:consensus.
371:Source(s)
297:Source(s)
780:Redjedi23
760:Redjedi23
745:Redjedi23
713:Redjedi23
694:Redjedi23
524:this case
496:template.
110:if needed
93:Be polite
48:talk page
860:Category
794:Graham87
766:Graham87
741:Graham87
727:Graham87
397:Normandy
323:Normandy
138:250 days
121:Archives
78:get help
20: |
630:Gonnym
616:Gonnym
559:Gonnym
545:Gonnym
368:Notes
294:Notes
187:scale.
588:notes
179:This
106:Seek
54:page.
16:<
848:talk
798:talk
784:talk
770:talk
749:talk
731:talk
717:talk
698:talk
670:talk
656:talk
638:talk
620:talk
606:talk
579:WCAG
571:and
549:talk
533:talk
518:Can
502:talk
487:talk
473:talk
425:talk
312:N/A
95:and
822:In
596:efn
592:or
451:N/A
862::
850:)
800:)
786:)
772:)
751:)
733:)
719:)
700:)
672:)
658:)
640:)
622:)
608:)
600:?
598:}}
594:{{
590:}}
586:{{
551:)
535:)
504:)
489:)
475:)
427:)
403:,
399:,
395:,
386:—
329:,
325:,
321:,
136::
128:,
76:;
846:(
796:(
782:(
768:(
762::
758:@
747:(
739:@
729:(
715:(
696:(
668:(
654:(
636:(
628:@
618:(
604:(
575::
567:@
557:@
547:(
531:(
500:(
485:(
471:(
439::
435:@
423:(
193::
130:2
126:1
123::
80:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
