724:. Ideally we would like to sort it out here before the same issues rear their heads. The reasoning for the official names is self-evident even by editors not involved with the Australian roads project (WP:AURD is only a few months old), but the names we have used (and based this guideline off) have been around much longer. The point of any WP guideline or policy is to help sort out disputes and confusion, and if it doesnt work in a particular circumstance, it is to be ignored. Both the headers of WP guideline and policy pages state this, and this proposed guideline even says so explicitly in the text.
71:
53:
81:
707:
22:
350:
292:
479:, the policy that states that articles' primary names should be based on that which is most commonly used rather than "official" names, as these guidelines propose. However, I could be incorrect, and I also request that he elaborate on what contradiction he refers to. On these grounds, though, I am going to have to Oppose --
742:
Thank you for the explanation - I have revised my opinion to neutral. I'm not huge on IAR, but if this largely matches the other highway systems around the world, I guess it doesn't do any harm. I'm still for compliance with wider guidelines, but I will defer to the judgement of those better versed
558:
As an aside, referring to the US highways arbcom case (many years ago) seems to be problematic too; that case mostly highlighted behavioral issues rather than gaps in naming rules - if anything it pointed out the problem of having multiple overlapping guidelines. Against that background, I feel that
698:
UCN is not a universal rule that every article must adhere to or else, a quick reading of the section clearly shows that, its guidance towards a preferred name, infact using the "common name" for these roads is likely to cause confusion and disambiguation nightmares (all the major capitals have
604:
For an article title, use a commonly recognizable name. The preferred name is usually the most prevalent name used in reliable
English-language sources. This preferred name may or may not be an official, scientific, birth, original, or trademarked
188:
and are built upon the pre-existing informal consensus created by most existing road names in
Australia. The aim of the guidelines are to help assist editors in forming a consistent approach to roadway naming. The
610:
In determining the prevalence of a name, consider the usage in the sources referenced in the article, and you may also consider other reliable sources. Also consider the choice made by other encyclopedias.
299:- Links added for each state with information if even further searching is required. It likely wouldnt be worth listing each of the other sources individually as the list would be extremely long. --
615:
The most prevalent name used may be discounted in favor of another of significant but lesser prevalence, due to problems such as: ambiguity, inaccuracy, non-neutrality, vulgarity or pedantry.
767:
It should also be noted that this convention is infobox neutral, if IBR is selected over IAR at some future point in time, the parameters mentioned can be changed to their IBR equivalents.
923:
918:
537:
When there's a good reason to not use the common name, we generally don't - for example, we always use "California State Route x" instead of "California
Highway x" or whatever a
184:
The purpose of this RfC is to gauge whether enough consensus exists to designate these road naming conventions as an official guideline. These have so been far discussed at the
197:. We require a different scheme due to regional differences in the importance of road naming and route markers (also known as shielding). -- 11:44, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
728:
is actually there to help :). I am happy to discuss this further if you would like more details on why this policy is appropriate or if you have any questions :) --
938:
933:
928:
185:
111:
314:
What is with the small type? Non-normative bits? It seems hard to read, so it should be brought up to normal size and perhaps distinguished in a different way.
107:
94:
58:
710:
701:
519:. I'm not a stickler about policy for policy's sake; using common names genuinely benefits readers. Also, I don't think it's helpful to invoke
317:
Also, the second bullet point in small type, relating to common names sometimes being allowed, could do with an example: such as, in
Victoria,
334:
325:
have official government names (Airport
Connection Road and Warrigal Highway) that are literally never used, not even on signage. —
743:
in this area. However, I still don't support making this guideline, as I feel it could add to confusion if someone has read both
874:
799:
549:
462:
582:
155:
33:
581:. It should be noted that discussion is currently occuring that will remove the remaining ambiguity in the UCN text . See:
170:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
905:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
328:
106:
states and territories. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
559:
the proposal of another overlapping (and contradictory) guideline is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
895:
878:
858:
827:
811:
778:
760:
737:
689:
647:
568:
553:
532:
510:
488:
466:
449:
428:
401:
389:
366:
341:
308:
283:
258:
241:
158:
376:– reflects the current naming practices for the vast majority of Australian roads articles. The issue I raised at
756:
685:
484:
440:; that is harmful. The rest - any part that does not contradict policy - is merely redundant instead of harmful.
891:
39:
86:
680:
and my reluctance to provide two official guidelines that are in direct contradiction with one another. --
700:", other examples such as the "F3" which is just the name of some shielding used in the 70s/80s (now the
377:
99:
744:
677:
177:
871:
791:
752:
681:
546:
480:
459:
421:
279:
887:
564:
528:
445:
151:
854:
721:
209:
194:
190:
849:– reflects the current naming practices for the vast majority of Australian roads articles.
823:
807:
774:
733:
643:
506:
385:
362:
304:
254:
237:
795:
748:
725:
673:
520:
515:
Yes; my main objection is that the proposed guideline contradicts the "common name" bit of
476:
229:
225:
217:
213:
80:
70:
52:
868:
634:
which sums up fairly well the process used in this proposed naming convention. I have had
543:
456:
414:
398:
275:
516:
437:
221:
704:
officially), and is actually shielded as the "M1"; so any junction list would then say "
560:
524:
472:
441:
357:
Small text fixed, reformatted, added 3 examples of signposted name being preferred. --
148:
912:
850:
322:
318:
274:
Could you add where the appropriate "government gazette(s)" can be found? Thanks.
147:
There is consensus to designated the proposed naming conventions as a guideline. —
716:". The US roads project had such a problem with common names for roads they were
380:(official but internal names only used by gov departments) has been addressed. -
819:
803:
785:
770:
729:
720:
to sort out their differences and then create their version of this document at
639:
502:
410:
381:
358:
300:
250:
233:
76:
103:
523:
as a way of enacting a new guideline which contradicts policy! ;-)
699:
multiple motorways known commonly as "M<insert number here: -->
583:
Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#WP:COMMONNAME_needs_copy-editing.
15:
579:
does state that other article titles are sometimes preferred)
98:, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
573:
Im not sure we should consider this and UCN contradictory
110:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
501:
Bobrayner, please see my response to
Jackson below :) --
638:
in the discussion mentioned above upto this point. --
436:. The main section, on titles, contradicts existing
224:via their talk pages; as well as posting on both
924:NA-importance Australia road transport articles
919:Project-Class Australia road transport articles
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
866:it's a logical guideline, and per Hawkeye7. --
193:has a similar set of guidelines available at
8:
120:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Australian Roads
818:Ah, good spot, Ill redact that portion --
249:These parties have now been contacted. --
47:
765:Please see my reply above to Bobrayner.
49:
939:WikiProject Australian Roads articles
934:NA-importance Road transport articles
929:Project-Class Road transport articles
123:Template:WikiProject Australian Roads
7:
166:The following discussion is closed.
21:
19:
38:It is of interest to the following
14:
126:Australia road transport articles
92:This page is within the scope of
901:The discussion above is closed.
800:Template:Infobox Australian road
705:
348:
290:
79:
69:
51:
20:
541:route may be referred to as. --
1:
208:I will shortly be contacting
454:Can you be more specific? --
186:Australian Roads Wikiproject
95:WikiProject Australian Roads
585:The current proposition is:
955:
859:21:35, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
761:21:10, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
738:09:13, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
690:00:26, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
511:09:17, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
489:00:26, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
467:20:26, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
450:20:24, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
429:15:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
402:03:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
390:03:41, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
367:07:43, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
342:07:23, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
309:13:08, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
284:12:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
259:12:02, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
242:11:44, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
159:08:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
64:
46:
903:Please do not modify it.
896:01:16, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
879:02:49, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
828:02:22, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
812:01:39, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
779:00:16, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
648:00:16, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
569:02:44, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
554:02:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
533:02:21, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
180:as an official guideline
168:Please do not modify it.
87:Australian roads portal
718:forced to go to ArbCom
619:
794:was referring to was
600:
397:- see Evad37 above.
191:US Roads Wikiproject
790:I believe the IAR
676:disagreement with
169:
100:roads and highways
34:content assessment
715:
580:
471:My guess is that
338:
167:
142:
141:
138:
137:
134:
133:
946:
789:
713:
709:
708:
702:Pacific Motorway
574:
475:is referring to
426:
419:
356:
352:
351:
340:
336:
331:
298:
294:
293:
204:Affected Parties
157:
128:
127:
124:
121:
118:
117:Australian Roads
89:
84:
83:
73:
66:
65:
59:Australian Roads
55:
48:
25:
24:
23:
16:
954:
953:
949:
948:
947:
945:
944:
943:
909:
908:
907:
906:
792:Jackson Peebles
783:
753:Jackson Peebles
706:
682:Jackson Peebles
481:Jackson Peebles
422:
415:
349:
347:
333:
326:
291:
289:
272:
206:
182:
172:
163:
162:
161:
154:
125:
122:
119:
116:
115:
85:
78:
12:
11:
5:
952:
950:
942:
941:
936:
931:
926:
921:
911:
910:
900:
899:
898:
888:PantherLeapord
881:
861:
843:
842:
841:
840:
839:
838:
837:
836:
835:
834:
833:
832:
831:
830:
693:
692:
663:
662:
661:
660:
659:
658:
657:
656:
655:
654:
653:
652:
651:
650:
636:no involvement
599:
598:
597:
596:
595:
594:
593:
592:
591:
590:
589:
588:
587:
586:
494:
493:
492:
491:
469:
431:
404:
392:
370:
369:
312:
311:
271:
268:
266:
264:
263:
262:
261:
205:
202:
200:
181:
174:
173:
164:
146:
145:
144:
143:
140:
139:
136:
135:
132:
131:
129:
91:
90:
74:
62:
61:
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
951:
940:
937:
935:
932:
930:
927:
925:
922:
920:
917:
916:
914:
904:
897:
893:
889:
886:- per above.
885:
882:
880:
877:
876:
873:
870:
865:
862:
860:
856:
852:
848:
845:
844:
829:
825:
821:
817:
816:
815:
814:
813:
809:
805:
801:
797:
793:
787:
782:
781:
780:
776:
772:
768:
764:
763:
762:
758:
754:
750:
746:
741:
740:
739:
735:
731:
727:
723:
719:
712:
703:
697:
696:
695:
694:
691:
687:
683:
679:
675:
671:
669:
665:
664:
649:
645:
641:
637:
633:
632:
631:
630:
629:
628:
627:
626:
625:
624:
623:
622:
621:
620:
618:
616:
612:
611:
607:
606:
584:
578:
572:
571:
570:
566:
562:
557:
556:
555:
552:
551:
548:
545:
540:
536:
535:
534:
530:
526:
522:
518:
514:
513:
512:
508:
504:
500:
499:
498:
497:
496:
495:
490:
486:
482:
478:
474:
470:
468:
465:
464:
461:
458:
453:
452:
451:
447:
443:
439:
435:
432:
430:
427:
425:
420:
418:
412:
408:
405:
403:
400:
396:
393:
391:
387:
383:
379:
375:
372:
371:
368:
364:
360:
355:
346:
345:
344:
343:
339:
330:
324:
323:Warrigal Road
320:
319:Airport Drive
315:
310:
306:
302:
297:
288:
287:
286:
285:
281:
277:
269:
267:
260:
256:
252:
248:
247:
246:
245:
244:
243:
239:
235:
231:
227:
223:
219:
215:
211:
203:
201:
198:
196:
192:
187:
179:
175:
171:
160:
156:
153:
150:
130:
113:
109:
105:
101:
97:
96:
88:
82:
77:
75:
72:
68:
67:
63:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
31:
27:
18:
17:
902:
883:
867:
863:
846:
766:
717:
667:
666:
635:
614:
613:
609:
608:
603:
601:
576:
542:
538:
455:
433:
423:
416:
406:
394:
373:
353:
316:
313:
295:
273:
265:
207:
199:
183:
165:
108:project page
93:
40:WikiProjects
30:project page
29:
745:WP:AURDNAME
678:WP:AURDNAME
178:WP:AURDNAME
913:Categories
539:individual
399:smileguy91
329:This, that
276:AfricaTanz
270:Discussion
112:discussion
104:Australian
561:bobrayner
525:bobrayner
473:bobrayner
442:bobrayner
335:the other
149:Scott5114
851:Hawkeye7
417:Jayadevp
884:Support
864:Support
847:Support
722:WP:USSH
670:Neutral
577:already
409:as per
407:Support
395:Support
378:WT:AURD
374:Support
210:WP:AURD
195:WP:USSH
820:Nbound
804:Evad37
798:, not
796:WP:IAR
786:Nbound
771:Nbound
749:WP:UCN
730:Nbound
726:WP:IAR
674:WP:UCN
668:Oppose
640:Nbound
521:WP:IAR
503:Nbound
477:WP:UCN
438:policy
434:Oppose
411:Evad37
382:Evad37
359:Nbound
337:(talk)
301:Nbound
251:Nbound
234:Nbound
232:. --
230:WP:VPR
226:WP:VPP
220:, and
218:WP:RFC
214:WP:HWY
36:scale.
751:. --
605:name.
517:WP:AT
222:WP:AT
176:RfC:
28:This
892:talk
875:7754
872:chen
855:talk
824:talk
808:talk
802:. -
775:talk
757:talk
747:and
734:talk
714:(M1)
686:talk
672:per
644:talk
575:(it
565:talk
550:7754
547:chen
529:talk
507:talk
485:talk
463:7754
460:chen
446:talk
413:. -
386:talk
363:talk
354:Done
332:and
321:and
305:talk
296:Done
280:talk
255:talk
238:talk
228:and
769:--
102:in
915::
894:)
869:Rs
857:)
826:)
810:)
777:)
759:)
736:)
711:F3
688:)
646:)
567:)
544:Rs
531:)
509:)
487:)
457:Rs
448:)
424:13
388:)
365:)
307:)
282:)
257:)
240:)
216:,
212:,
890:(
853:(
822:(
806:(
788::
784:@
773:(
755:(
732:(
684:(
642:(
617:"
602:"
563:(
527:(
505:(
483:(
444:(
384:(
361:(
327:E
303:(
278:(
253:(
236:(
152:↗
114:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
