760:
such - it would be odd to see
Cardinal Mindszenty referred to simply as "Josef Mindszenty" outside the pages of WP. To note the preamble to this guideline: "In those religions which have hierarchies, the higher the level within that hierarchy, the greater the likelihood that the person's first name may have ceased to be used publicly, being replaced by a title." It is odd that Cardinals, the second-highest rank of Clergy within the Roman Catholic Church, would not have their title so used. Finally, there should be some deference to the use of titles within institutions, which in this case clearly militates for the use of the title. I am not sure what the argument for the present policy is.
1132:
pages had/have mixed usage not only within the page, but even in paragraphs and sentences. The choices, aside from not using any form where appropriate, would be 'Saint', 'St.' or 'St' without the period, and mixing them randomly by an editor's preference keeps the status quo but doesn't help site (or even sentence) uniformity. Deciding it here rather than at abbreviations may need a larger group of editors (RfC?) yet with the language on this page as it is now, which includes the body text, this is the place to discuss it and per the page, 'Saint' seems the way to go.
391:
373:
154:
291:
301:
273:
203:
185:
401:
846:
123:
1142:
that can, or already do, cover this. Last thing we need is article title guidance competing with MOS guidance: that is rather a cause of mess in mainspace (and probably already was) than a solution to it. If you want to continue discussing how saints are to be mentioned in article text, I'd close this thread with a referral to a MOS talk page where to post your suggestions. --
1517:
name to be "Given
Surname" if that is how the bishop is usually known in these countries. Personally I cannot see much point or benefit in having articles named "Given (Surname)", at least not for those bishops who are normally known by both their given and family names. In this case the principle of "common name" seems by far the more appropriate.
213:
1141:
Re. "I still think leaving the guideline language to include referring to an individual subject in the article body is also appropriate for 'Saint' (etc)" – No. This a naming conventions guideline. Guidance about how to mention in article text should go from this guideline: there are enough MOS pages
1131:
Formatting seems appropriate, as 'Saint' isn't always needed as a qualifier. I still think leaving the guideline language to include referring to an individual subject in the article body is also appropriate for 'Saint', as the descriptor in text would thus be uniform across the site. As I said, many
879:
page itself except for one proper name. Most pages that I've edited per this guideline are inconsistent, and include both 'Saint' and 'St.' when referring to individuals (often in the same sentence), and I've been editing out those inconsistencies by using 'Saint' per this guideline (have stopped for
759:
Either "Cardinal John Smith" or "John
Cardinal Smith" would be acceptable, we should chose one. The parallel to titles of nobility is tight, as Cardinals are termed "Princes of the Church" and are electors of the Pope, the ruler of a sovereign country. Moreover, Cardinals are typically referred to as
1516:
Thanks for your comments. My own view is that each
Orthodox bishop's article name should be decided upon on what is most appropriate in each case. In many instances, especially for bishops in Western countries (such as Kallistos Ware), it will be (in my view) usually more appropriate for the article
913:
Seems like this is the wrong guideline for that topic (in other words, I would remove ", as well as on how to refer to them in the article body" from the opening paragraph of this guideline: that's not the type of guidance editors would be looking for in a naming conventions guideline which normally
693:
Strongly support this change. Cardinal is not a mere honorific (the honorific is "His
Eminence"), but a proper title, akin to titles of nobility. And since Cardinals are titular princes of a sovereign state and associated with the governance of that state, it would be proper even if it were not the
671:
I think the answer to the question of
Eastern bishops who are also cardinals is that the name/title under which they are primarily known is that of their own rite. In this sense, it is akin to peers who have lesser peerages - they are referred to by the senior title. I would also suggest that John
1501:
I agree. Note that we don't use the monastic name of
European nobles who entered the orders in their late life, we simply use the most common name in academic literature. Similarly, for samurai who changed name several times during their lifetime we simple use the most common occurrence. I see no
874:
I've recently been extending 'St.' to 'Saint' in the text in several long editing runs. The guideline states in its lead that this application would apply not only to titles but "on how to refer to them in the article body". Although I've made a few mistakes in titles and in text, it seems pretty
715:
The original policy appeared to be "John
Cardinal Smith" and was changed c.2006 when there was no consensus on the talk page - it seems that an active user simply imposed his preference when no consensus had emerged. It was wholly improper, and given the improper imposition of the present policy,
1156:
Okay, but which MOS talk page? Abbreviations doesn't really fit, as the discussion is whether or not to use the abbreviated forms in page text. Please delete the guideline language about in-text use on this page per your comments, as the language as presented now reads-out as both definitive and
888:
guideline seems to suggest that 'Saint' is preferable in text to 'St.' when referring to a person, especially when
Knowledge (XXG) usage is now so mixed that both forms are not only used on the same page but in paragraphs and even in the same sentences. A clarity discussion seems the next step.
816:
It is hardly obvious that the policies you cite dictate the result you desire, and it's a poor argument as well as a little condescending. However, I take your point that this is not the proper forum to change the policy. Neither is an RM, which would simply look to this policy as it currently
463:
While the form currently prescribed in the guidelines makes reference to occasionally using the appropriate Roman
Catholic convention for naming members of the Cardinalate; it recommends that it not be used in the actual titling of Articles. Furthermore, when the appropriate form
546:: It appears that you are correct as it concerns previous discussion on the titling of Saints, Bishops, etc., however not with members of the Cardinalate, who have a particularly unique naming convention. In highlighting this difference, I would add that Cardinals are termed
582:
Your original opposition is grounded upon (using your exact phrases) the fact that you are "sure many objections to this have been provided" and your "confidence" that consensus hasn't change. You make these rather firm statements, and cite the pages for both
1486:
Kallistos Ware may be an outlier due to his status as a native-born, Englishman convert heading a Greek church in the diaspora, so again I would say that his article name should be decided by editors locally, and not held up by MOS as a prescriptive example.
737:– not sure what you guys want. Re. "The original policy ... was changed c.2006 when there was no consensus" seems like an unfounded invention to me. Could someone give some examples of where current guidance works, or doesn't work, or some recently concluded
694:
proper terminology of the religious community at issue (and we aren't about to rename the Aga Khan or the Dalai Lama to their given names). Nor is it subject to NPOV concerns, as is often the case with "Saint". This seems rather obvious to me.
472:
the Article Title should follow the naming convention established universally by the Church (i.e., , ; as in "Donald, Cardinal Wuerl"), and redirects/piping applied to the use of the informal style (e.g. "Cardinal Wuerl," "Donald Wuerl,"
1215:
this change, and interpreting the existing text to cover article text too. Over-prescriptive. Appart from consistency within body text, I see no big issue here, and we should avoid instruction creep. I can see people itching to break
1234:
If you mean me, no, not interested in changing common names, and have mentioned I made a few mistakes in my edit runs on this subject. The issue is page/paragraph/sentence and site-wide consistency when referring to individuals.
1544:
This naming convention does not seem to say what disambiguation term should be used to distinguish a member of clergy from people with other roles – e.g., from an actor, artist, politician or musician. My understanding is that
475:
This is not so much a matter of style as it is of accuracy –– determining the nature of the title is not the province of the reference guide, it belongs to the organization which grants the title. I suggest we discuss this.
672:
Smith (Cardinal) is not appropriate here - Cardinal is the normally used title, akin to Pope Innocent, the Aga Khan, etc. Bishop (and Archbishop) in the West are more flexible, and probably need a separate discussion.
875:
clear that in the text, when 'St.' refers to the individual (and not, of course, to a church, artwork, or other proper name) that it should be extended to 'Saint'. The abbreviation 'St.' doesn't even appear on the
797:
Also, not a single example of an article title where the current guidance would have caused problems has been given. Generally, before a naming convention is changed broad consensuses established by outcomes of
1572:. However, there appear to be no article titles on Knowledge (XXG) that currently use that disambiguation term. I don't know whether that is because some other form is typically preferred in such cases or not.
39:
470:
employed within the text of an article: the current prescription is to always use a redirect or piped link. However, to my mind, it seems much more accurate for the convention to be the reverse:
859:. Keeping the discussion here open in case something still needs to be said about article titles, while discussions about how to mention in article text should go to the new discussion venue. --
110:
106:
102:
98:
550:
and therefore hold an office of temporal sovereignty. Thus, the Style of a Cardinal is more than a mere honorific. Adequate consensus has not been obtained on this unique issue. --
1253:. Otherwise it is merely an archaic practice dating to printing press-era space limitation abbrevation conventions, none of which should limit the readability on Knowledge (XXG).
1435:
the convention is rarely respected even in academic literature. This is particularly true for those clergymen who also played major political roles. The practice is to use
1035:
might be appropriate too) – i.e., for these, the article title is rather to be chosen depending on how the names of these artefacts and feasts are usually written, per the
652:
refers to an example of a Syrian Cardinal wherein the proper name is used without the "Cardinal". Also suggest the use of "First Last (Cardinal)" as per the conventions of
114:
995:
856:
1407:
591:
although none of these links seem to confirm your alleged certainty. What's more, your parenthetical note is neither collegial in tone nor logical in meaning. --
1088:
Sometimes, when there's no ambiguity, the qualifier ("Saint ...", "... the Apostle", etc.) is dropped altogether (for brevity, per the conciseness criterion at
74:
1661:
1656:
327:
1666:
915:
423:
231:
1636:
1300:
1646:
1641:
80:
24:
794:. No, the clergy naming conventions, including cardinals, should preferably be kept in line with these and other related guidelines and policies.
335:
235:
1651:
492:
414:
378:
230:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge (XXG)'s articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
1327:. This convention can be seen in the following examples from several Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions in the United States as well as the
331:
1060:
971:
239:
568:, not impressed by any part of the so-called rebuttal (rather circumstantial compared to the argumentation of my original oppose). --
517:: keep guidance as is. I'm sure many objections to this have been provided with solid argumentation in the past (almost looks like a
226:
190:
899:
Hmm, pretty quiet here – we had more participation on your talkpage. Maybe there's somewhere else more appropriate to discuss this?
339:
315:
278:
20:
918:
might be where your question is answered (or its talk page if you can't find an answer to your question in the guideline text). --
1414:. Either consensus changes and we move scores of pages, or we need to update the MOS to be descriptive of the current consensus.
1328:
1169:
perhaps (the "first mention" vs "subsequent use" distinction in that guidance might be useful)? Although for launching the topic
957:
933:
518:
69:
1066:
1053:
Also for list articles I'd use the name of the person according to the article title of the biographical article, thus (e.g.):
1466:
is also common. So there are three conventions that are in equal usage and should be equally acceptable by a descriptive MOS:
802:
should be demonstrable: none of that seems to be the case in the above argumentation. So, not ready for a guideline change. --
165:
1056:
986:
893:
868:
60:
961:
975:
1444:
954:. Thus I'd rather (for articles that write generically about an event according to sacred and historical documents):
1586:
Moreover, Knowledge (XXG) tends to prefer to use generally applicable tags rather than more specific ones – e.g.,
1507:
1452:
1178:
1147:
1122:
1079:
1044:
923:
864:
807:
746:
610:
573:
530:
122:
93:
979:
965:
822:
765:
721:
699:
677:
133:
1432:
1387:
1258:
171:
1274:
1297:
1293:
1250:
1217:
1036:
1522:
1335:
791:
491:
As the progress of discussion on this matter is stagnant, as is the Talk Page in general (see recent RfC
50:
1618:
1503:
1448:
1308:
1174:
1143:
1118:
1075:
1040:
919:
860:
803:
742:
624:
619:
Being that your reasons are not supported by any locatable fact, I am unconcerned by your opposition. --
606:
596:
569:
555:
526:
503:
481:
422:
on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1170:
1009:
817:
stands. I will make a proposal in the village pump, where I gather policy changes should be addressed.
775:
137:
65:
1622:
1526:
1511:
1496:
1456:
1423:
1372:
1312:
1286:
1262:
1239:
1229:
1191:
1182:
1161:
1151:
1136:
1126:
1083:
1048:
945:
927:
908:
826:
811:
769:
750:
725:
703:
681:
662:
628:
614:
600:
577:
559:
534:
507:
485:
941:
904:
881:
818:
761:
717:
695:
673:
649:
1492:
1419:
1368:
1282:
1254:
1105:
1002:
406:
1603:
653:
138:
779:
1355:
1323:
The general convention for listing an Eastern Orthodox bishop by his given name and surname is
1028:
1518:
1379:
1225:
1173:
would probably do, certainly when still undecided which MOS page would be most appropriate. --
1109:
774:
Not going anywhere if you ask me: the reasoning starts from a fundamental misunderstanding of
46:
1350:
1614:
1401:
1304:
951:
620:
592:
551:
499:
477:
218:
135:
1404:
article is a bad example at this point, since it's been moved several times back-and-forth.
1273:
Should saints’ native names be used or anglicised versions i.e. would an article be called
783:
522:
1236:
1188:
1158:
1133:
1099:
937:
900:
890:
306:
1089:
799:
787:
738:
1032:
1488:
1415:
1391:
1363:
1278:
1023:
1630:
1440:
1436:
1187:
Will go with WT:MOS for most editor input. Thanks. Maybe this section can be closed.
936:
article – is it named properly with the abbreviation or should Saint be spelled out?
1383:
1221:
657:
419:
605:
Still, oppose, for the reasons I've given and being unimpressed by the retorts. --
1346:
History of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Diocese of Los Angeles and the West
1095:
300:
202:
184:
885:
498:), I am requesting comment on the above described question of naming/titling.
396:
390:
372:
296:
208:
1345:
1017:
400:
290:
272:
857:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:Manual of Style#'Saint', 'St.' or 'St' in article text
326:-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
1340:
322:
1166:
1462:
Correct; looking at other EO churches it seems that the convention of
1443:. On the other hand the current Patriarch is usually referred to as
1568:
Presumably, the analogous disambiguation term for a woman would be
648:: Though I personally would prefer "First Cardinal Last" form, the
238:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
876:
1565:. Is that correct? If so, this should be stated here explicitly.
1606:. Does that imply that a bishop should be referred to simply as
1541:
I'm surprised to find a lack of some particular guidance here.
849:
147:
139:
15:
1059:(its current DAB page format doesn't work very well imho) →
1249:. "St" and "St." might apply when meeting the critera of
1537:
Disambiguation for ordinary clergy, priests and bishops
1395:
741:
that show the direction of what would be better? Tx. --
495:
Placement of New Sections in Dormant Policy Discussions
994:
This is not about individual artefacts, thus I'd keep
459:
Proper Form in the Titling of Roman Catholic Cardinals
320:, a project to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s articles on
855:
The discussion on this topic has now been opened at
418:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1502:reason to impose a norm in this particular case.
1061:List of churches named after John the Evangelist
884:on my talk page). Consistency combined with the
1408:Category:Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church
164:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1336:His Eminence Metropolitan Savas of Pittsburgh
916:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Abbreviations
8:
1319:Names of Eastern Orthodox bishops Suggestion
786:, and, last but not least, of policies like
716:there can be no status quo preference here.
950:The main article (about the person) is at
367:
267:
179:
432:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Christianity
1220:here, & we shouldn't encourage it.
982:would sound a bit less artificial imho)
369:
269:
181:
1015:might work for this one too – compare
1610:if that is sufficiently unambiguous?
650:Naming Conventions for Syriac Bishops
248:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Biography
7:
997:The Beheading of St John the Baptist
914:should only about article titles) –
838:
523:consensus on this hasn't changed yet
348:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Religion
153:
151:
1662:NA-importance Christianity articles
1657:Project-Class Christianity articles
170:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
972:Nativity of Saint John the Baptist
521:to me), and I'm equally confident
14:
1667:WikiProject Christianity articles
435:Template:WikiProject Christianity
412:This page is within the scope of
312:This page is within the scope of
224:This page is within the scope of
45:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
1637:Project-Class biography articles
1549:is typical – e.g., rather than
1329:Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
1277:or John of Ortega? Many thanks,
989:, which already uses this format
958:Beheading of St John the Baptist
934:Beheading of St John the Baptist
844:
399:
389:
371:
299:
289:
271:
211:
201:
183:
152:
121:
40:Click here to start a new topic.
1647:NA-importance Religion articles
1642:Project-Class Religion articles
1410:clearly follows the pattern of
1067:Augustine of Hippo bibliography
1579:? Is it better to use that or
1512:14:20, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
1497:12:55, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
1457:09:03, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
1424:06:00, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
1394:, I agree with the above; the
1057:St. John the Evangelist Church
987:Conversion of Paul the Apostle
251:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
1652:WikiProject Religion articles
962:Beheading of John the Baptist
663:09:17, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
426:and see a list of open tasks.
351:Template:WikiProject Religion
37:Put new text under old text.
1301:independent reliable sources
1263:21:47, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
1027:), or names of feasts (e.g.
976:Nativity of John the Baptist
827:00:41, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
812:08:21, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
770:01:57, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
751:22:52, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
726:22:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
704:21:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
682:22:42, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
236:contribute to the discussion
1527:15:01, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
629:16:26, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
615:16:22, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
601:16:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
578:16:10, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
560:15:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
535:13:54, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
508:13:41, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
486:16:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
25:Naming conventions (clergy)
1683:
1623:03:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
1313:15:00, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
842:
1398:to contradict this, but:
1240:12:29, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1230:12:22, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1192:13:49, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1183:13:36, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1162:13:22, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1152:12:49, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1137:11:07, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1127:06:31, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1084:05:55, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
1049:05:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
980:Birth of John the Baptist
966:Death of John the Baptist
946:02:47, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
928:19:15, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
909:18:51, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
894:10:30, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
869:14:06, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
384:
284:
196:
178:
75:Be welcoming to newcomers
1433:Romanian Orthodox Church
1373:05:30, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
1292:Presumably whichever is
1287:10:58, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
1031:, although for that one
548:"Princes of the Church,"
415:WikiProject Christianity
338:standards, or visit the
1396:MOS was changed in 2010
1112:("the Apostle" dropped)
964:(or, more generically,
839:'Saint' in article text
70:avoid personal attacks
438:Christianity articles
227:WikiProject Biography
115:Auto-archiving period
1559:"(member of clergy)"
316:WikiProject Religion
1388:Heroeswithmetaphors
1106:Matthew the Apostle
978:(or, in this case,
585:Perennial Proposals
407:Christianity portal
882:after an objection
519:perennial proposal
328:assess and improve
254:biography articles
166:content assessment
81:dispute resolution
42:
1351:Archbishop Kyrill
1110:Gospel of Matthew
1102:("Saint" dropped)
454:
453:
450:
449:
446:
445:
366:
365:
362:
361:
354:Religion articles
342:for more details.
266:
265:
262:
261:
146:
145:
61:Assume good faith
38:
1674:
1609:
1601:
1597:
1593:
1589:
1582:
1578:
1571:
1564:
1560:
1556:
1552:
1548:
1504:Plinul cel tanar
1449:Plinul cel tanar
1445:Patriarch Daniel
1402:Kallistos (Ware)
1371:
1366:
1298:English-language
1175:Francis Schonken
1144:Francis Schonken
1119:Francis Schonken
1076:Francis Schonken
1041:Francis Schonken
1029:Saint John's Eve
952:John the Baptist
920:Francis Schonken
871:
861:Francis Schonken
848:
847:
804:Francis Schonken
743:Francis Schonken
660:
607:Francis Schonken
570:Francis Schonken
527:Francis Schonken
440:
439:
436:
433:
430:
409:
404:
403:
393:
386:
385:
375:
368:
356:
355:
352:
349:
346:
340:wikiproject page
309:
304:
303:
293:
286:
285:
275:
268:
256:
255:
252:
249:
246:
232:join the project
221:
219:Biography portal
216:
215:
214:
205:
198:
197:
187:
180:
157:
156:
155:
148:
140:
126:
125:
116:
16:
1682:
1681:
1677:
1676:
1675:
1673:
1672:
1671:
1627:
1626:
1607:
1599:
1595:
1591:
1587:
1580:
1576:
1570:"(clergywoman)"
1569:
1562:
1558:
1554:
1550:
1546:
1539:
1480:Given (Surname)
1412:Given (Surname)
1362:
1361:
1325:Given (Surname)
1321:
1271:
1157:clear. Thanks.
1100:Denial of Peter
1069:for this format
932:What about the
880:the time being
872:
854:
852:
845:
841:
819:Gabrielthursday
762:Gabrielthursday
718:Gabrielthursday
696:Gabrielthursday
674:Gabrielthursday
658:
461:
437:
434:
431:
428:
427:
405:
398:
353:
350:
347:
344:
343:
307:Religion portal
305:
298:
253:
250:
247:
244:
243:
217:
212:
210:
142:
141:
136:
113:
87:
86:
56:
12:
11:
5:
1680:
1678:
1670:
1669:
1664:
1659:
1654:
1649:
1644:
1639:
1629:
1628:
1588:"(politician)"
1538:
1535:
1534:
1533:
1532:
1531:
1530:
1529:
1484:
1483:
1482:
1477:
1475:Given of Place
1472:
1429:
1428:
1427:
1426:
1405:
1359:
1358:
1353:
1348:
1343:
1338:
1320:
1317:
1316:
1315:
1275:Juan de Ortega
1270:
1267:
1266:
1265:
1255:Chicbyaccident
1244:
1243:
1242:
1209:
1208:
1207:
1206:
1205:
1204:
1203:
1202:
1201:
1200:
1199:
1198:
1197:
1196:
1195:
1194:
1115:
1114:
1113:
1103:
1086:
1072:
1071:
1070:
1063:
1051:
1024:Hymn of Praise
992:
991:
990:
983:
969:
911:
843:
840:
837:
836:
835:
834:
833:
832:
831:
830:
829:
795:
754:
753:
731:
730:
729:
728:
707:
706:
687:
686:
685:
684:
666:
665:
642:
641:
640:
639:
638:
637:
636:
635:
634:
633:
632:
631:
538:
537:
511:
510:
460:
457:
452:
451:
448:
447:
444:
443:
441:
424:the discussion
411:
410:
394:
382:
381:
376:
364:
363:
360:
359:
357:
311:
310:
294:
282:
281:
276:
264:
263:
260:
259:
257:
223:
222:
206:
194:
193:
188:
176:
175:
169:
158:
144:
143:
134:
132:
131:
128:
127:
89:
88:
85:
84:
77:
72:
63:
57:
55:
54:
43:
34:
33:
30:
29:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1679:
1668:
1665:
1663:
1660:
1658:
1655:
1653:
1650:
1648:
1645:
1643:
1640:
1638:
1635:
1634:
1632:
1625:
1624:
1620:
1616:
1611:
1608:"(clergyman)"
1605:
1584:
1581:"(clergyman)"
1573:
1566:
1547:"(clergyman)"
1542:
1536:
1528:
1524:
1520:
1515:
1514:
1513:
1509:
1505:
1500:
1499:
1498:
1494:
1490:
1485:
1481:
1478:
1476:
1473:
1471:
1470:Given Surname
1468:
1467:
1465:
1464:Given Surname
1461:
1460:
1459:
1458:
1454:
1450:
1446:
1442:
1441:Visarion Puiu
1438:
1437:Miron Cristea
1434:
1425:
1421:
1417:
1413:
1409:
1406:
1403:
1400:
1399:
1397:
1393:
1389:
1385:
1381:
1377:
1376:
1375:
1374:
1370:
1365:
1357:
1354:
1352:
1349:
1347:
1344:
1342:
1339:
1337:
1334:
1333:
1332:
1330:
1326:
1318:
1314:
1310:
1306:
1302:
1299:
1295:
1291:
1290:
1289:
1288:
1284:
1280:
1276:
1268:
1264:
1260:
1256:
1252:
1251:WP:COMMONNAME
1248:
1245:
1241:
1238:
1233:
1232:
1231:
1227:
1223:
1219:
1218:WP:COMMONNAME
1214:
1211:
1210:
1193:
1190:
1186:
1185:
1184:
1180:
1176:
1172:
1168:
1165:
1164:
1163:
1160:
1155:
1154:
1153:
1149:
1145:
1140:
1139:
1138:
1135:
1130:
1129:
1128:
1124:
1120:
1116:
1111:
1107:
1104:
1101:
1097:
1094:
1093:
1091:
1087:
1085:
1081:
1077:
1073:
1068:
1064:
1062:
1058:
1055:
1054:
1052:
1050:
1046:
1042:
1039:principle. --
1038:
1037:WP:COMMONNAME
1034:
1033:St John's Eve
1030:
1026:
1025:
1020:
1019:
1014:
1012:
1007:
1005:
1000:
998:
993:
988:
984:
981:
977:
973:
970:
967:
963:
959:
956:
955:
953:
949:
948:
947:
943:
939:
935:
931:
930:
929:
925:
921:
917:
912:
910:
906:
902:
898:
897:
896:
895:
892:
887:
883:
878:
870:
866:
862:
858:
851:
828:
824:
820:
815:
814:
813:
809:
805:
801:
796:
793:
789:
785:
781:
777:
773:
772:
771:
767:
763:
758:
757:
756:
755:
752:
748:
744:
740:
736:
733:
732:
727:
723:
719:
714:
711:
710:
709:
708:
705:
701:
697:
692:
689:
688:
683:
679:
675:
670:
669:
668:
667:
664:
661:
655:
651:
647:
644:
643:
630:
626:
622:
618:
617:
616:
612:
608:
604:
603:
602:
598:
594:
590:
586:
581:
580:
579:
575:
571:
567:
563:
562:
561:
557:
553:
549:
545:
542:
541:
540:
539:
536:
532:
528:
524:
520:
516:
513:
512:
509:
505:
501:
497:
496:
490:
489:
488:
487:
483:
479:
474:
469:
468:
458:
456:
442:
425:
421:
417:
416:
408:
402:
397:
395:
392:
388:
387:
383:
380:
377:
374:
370:
358:
341:
337:
333:
329:
325:
324:
319:
318:
317:
308:
302:
297:
295:
292:
288:
287:
283:
280:
277:
274:
270:
258:
241:
240:documentation
237:
233:
229:
228:
220:
209:
207:
204:
200:
199:
195:
192:
189:
186:
182:
177:
173:
167:
163:
159:
150:
149:
130:
129:
124:
120:
112:
108:
104:
100:
97:
95:
91:
90:
82:
78:
76:
73:
71:
67:
64:
62:
59:
58:
52:
48:
47:Learn to edit
44:
41:
36:
35:
32:
31:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1612:
1598:rather than
1596:"(musician)"
1590:rather than
1585:
1574:
1567:
1555:"(preacher)"
1551:"(minister)"
1543:
1540:
1519:Afterwriting
1479:
1474:
1469:
1463:
1430:
1411:
1380:Afterwriting
1360:
1356:Archdioceses
1324:
1322:
1272:
1269:Native names
1246:
1212:
1022:
1016:
1010:
1003:
999:(Caravaggio)
996:
873:
792:WP:CONSENSUS
734:
712:
690:
645:
588:
584:
565:
547:
543:
514:
494:
471:
466:
465:
462:
455:
429:Christianity
420:Christianity
413:
379:Christianity
330:articles to
321:
314:
313:
225:
172:WikiProjects
162:project page
161:
118:
92:
19:This is the
1615:BarrelProof
1600:"(drummer)"
1575:What about
1341:Our Bishops
1305:BarrelProof
1294:more common
1096:Saint Peter
776:WP:OFFICIAL
621:UBI-et-ORBI
593:UBI-et-ORBI
552:UBI-et-ORBI
500:UBI-et-ORBI
478:UBI-et-ORBI
1631:Categories
1577:"(priest)"
1563:"(cleric)"
1237:Randy Kryn
1189:Randy Kryn
1159:Randy Kryn
1134:Randy Kryn
1013:(oratorio)
1006:(oratorio)
938:Mojoworker
901:Mojoworker
891:Randy Kryn
886:MOS:SAINTS
493:regarding
1604:WP:NCPDAB
1592:"(mayor)"
1489:Elizium23
1416:Elizium23
1392:Xenophore
1364:Xenophore
1279:Vesuvio14
1018:Lobgesang
245:Biography
191:Biography
83:if needed
66:Be polite
21:talk page
1431:For the
1092:) e.g.:
1065:Compare
1004:St. Paul
985:Compare
780:WP:NCRAN
564:Confirm
544:Rebuttal
345:Religion
323:Religion
279:Religion
94:Archives
51:get help
1384:Veverve
1247:Support
1222:Johnbod
1167:MOS:BIO
735:Comment
713:Comment
691:Support
659:ScitDei
654:Bishops
646:Comment
589:WP:CCC,
119:92 days
1602:, per
1303:. —
1213:Oppose
1171:WT:MOS
1108:, but
1098:, but
1021:, not
1011:Paulus
800:WP:RMs
784:WP:NCP
739:WP:RMs
566:oppose
515:Oppose
168:scale.
1090:WP:AT
877:Saint
788:WP:AT
473:etc).
160:This
79:Seek
27:page.
1619:talk
1613:—
1594:and
1523:talk
1508:talk
1493:talk
1453:talk
1420:talk
1369:talk
1309:talk
1283:talk
1259:talk
1226:talk
1179:talk
1148:talk
1123:talk
1080:talk
1045:talk
1001:and
942:talk
924:talk
905:talk
865:talk
823:talk
808:talk
790:and
766:talk
747:talk
722:talk
700:talk
678:talk
625:talk
611:talk
597:talk
587:and
574:talk
556:talk
531:talk
525:. --
504:talk
482:talk
334:and
332:good
234:and
68:and
1561:or
1557:or
1553:or
1439:or
1390:, @
1386:, @
1382:, @
1296:in
850:FYI
336:1.0
1633::
1621:)
1583:?
1525:)
1510:)
1495:)
1455:)
1422:)
1367:;
1331::
1311:)
1285:)
1261:)
1228:)
1181:)
1150:)
1125:)
1117:--
1082:)
1074:--
1047:)
974:→
960:→
944:)
926:)
907:)
867:)
853:–
825:)
810:)
782:,
778:,
768:)
749:)
724:)
702:)
680:)
656:~
627:)
613:)
599:)
576:)
558:)
533:)
506:)
484:)
467:is
117::
109:,
105:,
101:,
49:;
1617:(
1521:(
1506:(
1491:(
1451:(
1447:.
1418:(
1378:@
1307:(
1281:(
1257:(
1224:(
1177:(
1146:(
1121:(
1078:(
1043:(
1008:(
968:)
940:(
922:(
903:(
863:(
821:(
806:(
764:(
745:(
720:(
698:(
676:(
623:(
609:(
595:(
572:(
554:(
529:(
502:(
480:(
242:.
174::
111:4
107:3
103:2
99:1
96::
53:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
