178:
147:
756:
Constructions like "Redirect" → "Article title#Redirect" and similar (i.e. where the subject implied by the title of the redirect matches the subject implied by the title of the section) are not normally going to be surprising and will very rarely present WP:EGG issues. I agree the current guidance could be clearer on this topic, but it does make it clear that linking to
291:
227:
209:
859:
link so I'm not sure how that is relevant. In the example you gave, an episode redirect is a valid link as if and when it becomes an article, the link is already there. It's also makes changing the target a simple one page edit, instead of having to edit every link to the target. That is exactly what
755:
We should always do what is best for readers in any given case. Usually this will mean linking to redirects with possibilities (so that when content is written at the redirect title readers are taken directly there), and to redirects that are more concise than section titles without being a SURPRISE.
575:
No, it looks trashy and puts a longer barrier between the reader and the important text. I've found hatnote group which does what I want per step 5 "Ideally, limit hatnotes to just one at the top of the page or section. Multiple hatnotes may be appropriate when they serve different purposes, such as
811:
Don't twist my words. It makes a specific exception for this one case, I maintain that we should still be using direct links in most other cases so that readers end up where they expect. The change in
January seems poorly thought out and has just muddied the guideline.
536:. I just replaced it, so it's now combined all on one line. It follows example #4, where the "redirect" input is also the same as the "disambiguation" input, with the "not to be confused…" in the middle. Hopefully that doesn't create some kerfuffle! --
624:
Ahh, good, everyone's happy! Yes, I was worried there would be an issue with the fact that the "redirect" and "disambiguation" was interrupted by the "distinguish". This solution seems most ideal, so that it doesn't look discombobulated.
489:
The multiplicity of hatnote templates with differing parameters is already very confusing. I can't see adding yet another to the mix, especially when the use case need isn't very clear. Why make more work when there is no need?
517:. I find hatnotes on multiple lines looks trashy and like we don't know what we're doing, I think both hatnotes in this scenario assume the audience is stupid but it's got consensus so I just want to tidy it up if possible.
550:
No, I don't think it's helpful: we're talking about two different kinds of navigation, and the combined hatnote is confusing. I#ve reverted to the two separate hatnotes which, I think, are clear and not "trashy".
376:
While it could be done all freeform with one of those custom text ones, I was kind of surprised not to see one of these amongst the lists of potential hatnote options, considering all of the other combinations.
1162:
Okay, I think I've worked out what's wrong with the guideline. I think it makes it clearer, and I now believe this is what is intended by the current wording, if we changed it to something along the lines of:
462:
Yeah, I appreciate that option and your POV, thank you. But it doesn't phrase it as "Not to be confused with", in the middle. Like I stated, I feel like that is one missing combo, and there are so many similar
1137:
article contains "Earvin "Magic" Johnson" in the lead (and thus contains the term "Earvin
Johnson" and the redirect could absolutely served as an alternative title for the article.
387:
I dunno if there's one that I'm overlooking somewhere OR some way to squeeze a "For-custom-text" hatnote template WITHIN an About-Distinguish one, by any chance…? Dubious. --
469:
Like I said, this may not be the quintessential example to work with, but it's AN example. Think outside the box. Is there some way to manipulate the templates to create
138:
1204:
1172:
317:
74:
336:"About-Distinguish-For" would be a very useful template. Several articles I recall would benefit from hatnotes of that particular nature. Here's one example:
253:
1231:
39:
727:
to follow the rules for linking to redirects, but there are no specific rules for hatnotes in that guideline. Specifically this has caused an issue
728:
80:
998:
the redirect could serve as an alternative name for the target article, meaning an alternative term that is already in the article's lead section.
893:
The point is that you need to know every article that needs editing, and then edit every one of those articles (could be one could be a hundred).
249:
234:
214:
98:
778:
in this guideline is about making an exception to the direct link rule and using redirects when linking to disambiguation pages from hatnotes.
914:
430:|the 2015 English-French film|the 2008 Japanese film|Departures (2008 film)|other films with the same title|Departure (disambiguation)#Films}}
1133:
If that contravenes the guideline then the guideline is wrong and needs changing, but per
Bagumba's quote it is actually compatible: The
945:
134:
130:
126:
122:
118:
114:
110:
106:
102:
684:
656:
630:
541:
480:
392:
731:. I think we need more clarity on what was intended. Personally, I don't think we should be linking to redirects as they can cause
533:
20:
424:
would be sufficient. If there is actually some good need to distinguish two out of the set for some reason, this can be done with
69:
189:
60:
1056:
365:
DISTINGUISH: Specifically singling out the most significant (Oscar winner), and most likely to be incorrectly
Wikilinked.
1176:
724:
239:
670:
581:
576:
disambiguating topics with similar names and explaining redirects. (In such cases, consider using hatnote group.)"
522:
441:
415:
352:
146:
93:
918:
760:
redirects is the correct thing to do so claiming it "discourages the use of redirects in hatnotes" is nonsense.
712:
157:
1191:
1122:
1085:
1026:
973:
882:
820:
786:
743:
195:
402:
I don't see why the 2008 and 2015 films need some special distinction separate from the other films. I think
1168:
775:
757:
594:
472:
This page is about XXXX. Not to be confused with Xx Xx. For other/similar ____, see XXXX (disambiguation)?
437:
348:
1055:, the hatnote would be more compact using the redirect as "For the former Los Angeles Lakers player, see
50:
666:
577:
518:
65:
380:
And I found this in the archive, which looked suitable, but unfortunately it doesn't exist: Testing
307:
303:
24:
1186:
1142:
1117:
1101:
1080:
1042:
1021:
968:
956:
939:
926:
898:
877:
836:
815:
802:
781:
765:
738:
723:" seems to discourage the use of redirects in hatnotes. However, following that, we are sent to
162:
590:
Yes, that looks good. There's always something new to learn about editing
Knowledge (XXG), and
1212:
1068:
1008:
831:
The issue is that redirects do not (generally speaking) mislead readers as you keep claiming.
680:
652:
626:
537:
495:
476:
454:
388:
46:
1171:
non-disambiguation links. Links to redirects may be appropriate if they meet the criteria at
1114:
as the guideline we should be following for hatnotes, this without a doubt contravenes this.
865:
466:
For example, there is REDIRECT-Distinguish-For. So why can't there be About-Distinguish-For?
159:
1205:
Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Disambiguation pages § Where redirecting may be appropriate
856:
732:
987:
1018:
I don't think it does. Criteria #2 would certainly never be appropriate for a hatnote.
1138:
1097:
1038:
949:
922:
894:
832:
798:
797:
It's a guideline not a rule, and as you now agree it doesn't discourage all redirects.
761:
610:
561:
427:
1225:
1134:
1060:
1052:
514:
1077:
I prefer the hatnote as it is. It's clear and you know where you're going and why.
382://composed hatnote|about|SUBJECT|distinguish|SIMILARCONCEPT|for|USE|PAGE|text|TEXT\\
1208:
1111:
1064:
1004:
491:
450:
405:
310:. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see
161:
1096:
The alternative is clearer, more concise and you know where you're going and why.
1059:" instead of "For the former Los Angeles Lakers player named Earvin Johnson, see
436:
This page is about the 2015 English-French film. For the 2008 Japanese film, see
861:
855:
Of course we should be linking the redirect. A valid redirect is also not an
601:
552:
1216:
1197:
1146:
1128:
1105:
1091:
1072:
1046:
1032:
1012:
979:
960:
930:
902:
888:
869:
840:
826:
806:
792:
769:
749:
688:
674:
660:
634:
619:
585:
570:
545:
526:
498:
484:
457:
396:
339:
860:
a redirect is and that is covered by the various MoS pages on the topic.
332:
Do we have an "About-Distinguish-For" hatnote? If not, I think we should.
874:
You'd only need to edit the hatnote should the article ever be created.
965:
Thanks, only archive up to 8 was showing in the sidebar (now removed).
344:
An indie film stub, which needs development. Regardless, the hatnote:
226:
208:
408:|other films with the same title|Departure (disambiguation)#Films}}
995:
the redirect target article contains the disambiguated term; and
285:
171:
163:
15:
347:
This article is about the 2015 film. Not to be confused with
946:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:Hatnote/Archive 9#Redirects in hatnotes
708:
704:
312:
298:
244:
242:
pages on
Knowledge (XXG). If you wish to help, you can
358:
There might be better examples, but in this instance:
252:, where you can join the project or contribute to the
1003:
Seems that the spirit can apply to hatnotes as well.—
384:. But that would be the ideal About-Distinguish-For.
1203:
I have no objection to linking to the more relevant
368:
FOR: Then the disambiguation page w/ multiple other
1207:(and had mentioned it at the previous discussion) —
651:as well, since it's the same hatnote format. --
362:ABOUT: Identifies which one this is, obviously.
188:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
340:https://en.wikipedia.org/Departure_(2015_film)
992:
711:has created an issue where the first item at
8:
509:Is there a way to combine multiple hatnotes?
707:(which I cannot find in the archives), the
440:. For other films with the same title, see
351:. For other films with the same title, see
316:; for the discussion at that location, see
238:, an attempt to structure and organize all
262:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Disambiguation
203:
915:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Redirect
534:Redirect-Distinguish-For hatnote template
414:For other films with the same title, see
248:attached to this talk page, or visit the
1179:should always end in "(disambiguation)".
1167:Link directly to other articles; do not
299:Template:Hatnote templates documentation
205:
1166:
716:
7:
177:
175:
532:Ah, that ought to be utilizing the
372:-named flicks; directly to section.
265:Template:WikiProject Disambiguation
194:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
442:Departure (disambiguation) § Films
416:Departure (disambiguation) § Films
353:Departure (disambiguation) § Films
14:
232:This page is within the scope of
45:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
1232:WikiProject Disambiguation pages
990:recommends using redirects when
289:
225:
207:
176:
145:
40:Click here to start a new topic.
1:
1183:What does anyone else think?
1177:Links to disambiguation pages
919:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Redirect
600:is today's new thing for me.
37:Put new text under old text.
1173:the disambiguation guideline
1110:But if people are invoking
699:Redirects in hatnotes again
665:Thanks a lot Cinemaniac86!
1248:
1217:09:46, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1198:09:27, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1147:09:24, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1129:09:19, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1106:09:15, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1092:09:12, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1073:09:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1047:08:47, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1033:08:31, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
1013:08:21, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
980:07:40, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
961:19:46, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
931:16:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
903:08:49, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
889:08:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
870:16:48, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
841:16:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
827:15:40, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
807:15:36, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
793:15:23, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
770:15:11, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
750:10:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
435:
413:
235:WikiProject Disambiguation
735:issues in certain cases.
689:19:55, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
499:01:19, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
485:00:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
458:16:42, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
397:15:56, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
220:
202:
75:Be welcoming to newcomers
705:this previous discussion
675:07:16, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
661:23:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
635:15:15, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
620:08:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
586:08:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
571:08:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
546:23:15, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
527:20:48, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
308:Knowledge (XXG):Hatnote
268:Disambiguation articles
1057:Earvin "Magic" Johnson
1001:
438:Departures (2008 film)
349:Departures (2008 film)
70:avoid personal attacks
296:The contents of the
139:Auto-archiving period
729:in this discussion
703:With reference to
679:My pleasure! =) --
190:content assessment
81:dispute resolution
42:
933:
725:WP:Disambiguation
721:to other articles
513:Specifically for
324:
323:
284:
283:
280:
279:
276:
275:
170:
169:
61:Assume good faith
38:
1239:
1194:
1189:
1125:
1120:
1088:
1083:
1029:
1024:
976:
971:
952:
943:
912:
885:
880:
823:
818:
789:
784:
746:
741:
709:resulting change
667:Darkwarriorblake
647:P.S. Did it for
617:
608:
599:
593:
578:Darkwarriorblake
568:
559:
519:Darkwarriorblake
431:
409:
383:
315:
293:
292:
286:
270:
269:
266:
263:
260:
247:
229:
222:
221:
211:
204:
181:
180:
179:
172:
164:
150:
149:
140:
16:
1247:
1246:
1242:
1241:
1240:
1238:
1237:
1236:
1222:
1221:
1192:
1187:
1123:
1118:
1086:
1081:
1027:
1022:
988:MOS:DABREDIRECT
974:
969:
950:
937:
934:
883:
878:
821:
816:
787:
782:
744:
739:
713:WP:HATNOTERULES
701:
687:
659:
633:
611:
602:
597:
591:
562:
553:
544:
511:
483:
445:
425:
419:
403:
395:
381:
334:
311:
290:
267:
264:
261:
258:
257:
243:
166:
165:
160:
137:
87:
86:
56:
12:
11:
5:
1245:
1243:
1235:
1234:
1224:
1223:
1220:
1219:
1160:
1159:
1158:
1157:
1156:
1155:
1154:
1153:
1152:
1151:
1150:
1149:
1049:
1000:
999:
996:
985:
984:
983:
982:
940:Woodensuperman
911:
910:
909:
908:
907:
906:
905:
852:
851:
850:
849:
848:
847:
846:
845:
844:
843:
700:
697:
696:
695:
694:
693:
692:
691:
683:
655:
645:
644:
643:
642:
641:
640:
639:
638:
637:
629:
540:
510:
507:
506:
505:
504:
503:
502:
501:
479:
467:
464:
448:
447:
446:
422:
421:
420:
391:
374:
373:
366:
363:
333:
330:
328:
322:
321:
294:
282:
281:
278:
277:
274:
273:
271:
259:Disambiguation
240:disambiguation
230:
218:
217:
215:Disambiguation
212:
200:
199:
193:
182:
168:
167:
158:
156:
155:
152:
151:
89:
88:
85:
84:
77:
72:
63:
57:
55:
54:
43:
34:
33:
30:
29:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1244:
1233:
1230:
1229:
1227:
1218:
1214:
1210:
1206:
1202:
1201:
1200:
1199:
1196:
1195:
1190:
1181:
1180:
1178:
1174:
1170:
1164:
1148:
1144:
1140:
1136:
1135:Magic Johnson
1132:
1131:
1130:
1127:
1126:
1121:
1113:
1109:
1108:
1107:
1103:
1099:
1095:
1094:
1093:
1090:
1089:
1084:
1076:
1075:
1074:
1070:
1066:
1062:
1061:Magic Johnson
1058:
1054:
1053:Ervin Johnson
1050:
1048:
1044:
1040:
1036:
1035:
1034:
1031:
1030:
1025:
1017:
1016:
1015:
1014:
1010:
1006:
997:
994:
993:
991:
989:
981:
978:
977:
972:
964:
963:
962:
958:
954:
947:
941:
936:
935:
932:
928:
924:
920:
916:
904:
900:
896:
892:
891:
890:
887:
886:
881:
873:
872:
871:
867:
863:
858:
854:
853:
842:
838:
834:
830:
829:
828:
825:
824:
819:
810:
809:
808:
804:
800:
796:
795:
794:
791:
790:
785:
777:
776:WP:INTDABLINK
773:
772:
771:
767:
763:
759:
758:WP:INTDABLINK
754:
753:
752:
751:
748:
747:
742:
734:
730:
726:
722:
720:
714:
710:
706:
698:
690:
686:
682:
678:
677:
676:
672:
668:
664:
663:
662:
658:
654:
650:
646:
636:
632:
628:
623:
622:
621:
618:
616:
615:
609:
607:
606:
596:
595:hatnote group
589:
588:
587:
583:
579:
574:
573:
572:
569:
567:
566:
560:
558:
557:
549:
548:
547:
543:
539:
535:
531:
530:
529:
528:
524:
520:
516:
508:
500:
497:
493:
488:
487:
486:
482:
478:
474:
473:
468:
465:
461:
460:
459:
456:
452:
449:
443:
439:
434:
433:
429:
423:
417:
412:
411:
407:
401:
400:
399:
398:
394:
390:
385:
378:
371:
367:
364:
361:
360:
359:
356:
354:
350:
345:
342:
341:
337:
331:
329:
326:
319:
318:its talk page
314:
309:
305:
301:
300:
295:
288:
287:
272:
255:
251:
246:
245:edit the page
241:
237:
236:
231:
228:
224:
223:
219:
216:
213:
210:
206:
201:
197:
191:
187:
183:
174:
173:
154:
153:
148:
144:
136:
132:
128:
124:
120:
116:
112:
108:
104:
100:
97:
95:
91:
90:
82:
78:
76:
73:
71:
67:
64:
62:
59:
58:
52:
48:
47:Learn to edit
44:
41:
36:
35:
32:
31:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1184:
1182:
1165:
1161:
1115:
1112:MOS:DABREDIR
1078:
1019:
1002:
986:
966:
875:
813:
779:
736:
718:
702:
681:Cinemaniac86
653:Cinemaniac86
648:
627:Cinemaniac86
613:
612:
604:
603:
564:
563:
555:
554:
538:Cinemaniac86
515:this article
512:
477:Cinemaniac86
471:
470:
389:Cinemaniac86
386:
379:
375:
369:
357:
346:
343:
338:
335:
327:
325:
297:
250:project page
233:
196:WikiProjects
186:project page
185:
142:
92:
19:This is the
774:The use of
432:producing:
410:producing:
313:its history
913:Notified:
302:page were
254:discussion
1139:Thryduulf
1098:Thryduulf
1039:Thryduulf
1037:Why not?
923:Thryduulf
895:Thryduulf
833:Thryduulf
799:Thryduulf
762:Thryduulf
370:Departure
83:if needed
66:Be polite
21:talk page
1226:Category
1193:superman
1124:superman
1087:superman
1028:superman
975:superman
944:It's at
884:superman
822:superman
788:superman
745:superman
719:directly
94:Archives
51:get help
1209:Bagumba
1065:Bagumba
1005:Bagumba
463:combos.
143:90 days
25:Hatnote
1188:wooden
1119:wooden
1082:wooden
1023:wooden
970:wooden
953:rose64
879:wooden
862:Gonnym
857:WP:EGG
817:wooden
783:wooden
740:wooden
733:WP:EGG
304:merged
192:scale.
717:Link
685:Stalk
657:Stalk
649:Alien
631:Stalk
542:Stalk
496:wiser
492:older
481:Stalk
455:wiser
451:older
428:About
393:Stalk
306:into
184:This
99:Index
79:Seek
27:page.
1213:talk
1169:pipe
1143:talk
1102:talk
1069:talk
1063:." —
1043:talk
1009:talk
957:talk
955:🌹 (
948:. --
927:talk
899:talk
866:talk
837:talk
803:talk
766:talk
671:talk
582:talk
523:talk
68:and
1051:At
951:Red
715:: "
605:Pam
556:Pam
406:For
1228::
1215:)
1185:--
1175:.
1145:)
1116:--
1104:)
1079:--
1071:)
1045:)
1020:--
1011:)
967:--
959:)
929:)
921:.
917:,
901:)
876:--
868:)
839:)
814:--
805:)
780:--
768:)
737:--
673:)
625:--
598:}}
592:{{
584:)
525:)
494:≠
475:--
453:≠
426:{{
404:{{
355:.
141::
133:,
129:,
125:,
121:,
117:,
113:,
109:,
105:,
101:,
49:;
1211:(
1141:(
1100:(
1067:(
1041:(
1007:(
942::
938:@
925:(
897:(
864:(
835:(
801:(
764:(
669:(
614:D
580:(
565:D
521:(
444:.
418:.
320:.
256:.
198::
135:9
131:8
127:7
123:6
119:5
115:4
111:3
107:2
103:1
96::
53:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
