1022:
references for any statements you make. Yes, there are a few oddballs there. Poulenc should be there and not Walton, in my opinion. As I say, it's not my list, it's not your list, it's the list our sources provided and there's something to displease everybody. The most important thing is every great great opera composer is there. The votes at the bottom of the page give a rough idea of genuine importance too. Seriously, I really wouldn't be very happy messing around with the list at this stage. This whole thing kicked off on
September 6 and it's only just fizzling out now. You really had to be there to appreciate what I'm saying. In five years time, we'll do the whole thing again. But for now I want it to stay put even if Gustave and not Msrc-Antoine Charpentier appears there. (Yes, the other list is next in line for a fix and we'll be glad of your help). --
770:(not often, anyway). Remember, the key thing is the information in the foreign article. You've got to make sure you get that right in the English version. Then, to a lesser extent, you've got to make sure the article reads reasonably smoothly in English. It doesn't really matter if it conveys all the stylistic niceties of the original accurately. For instance, you might want to break down all those long, convoluted German sentences into several simple sentences in English if it reads better. On the other hand, it doesn't matter too much if you make a few grammatical or other errors; someone will come along and fix it sooner or later. But remember, the most important thing is making available new sources of information for English-speaking readers that would otherwise be inaccessible. So my advice would be to go ahead and try your hand at it. Cheers.--
691:
advance. Also, if you take away the prospect of others being able to nominate their favourite composers in the foreseeable future, they'll probably lose interest in making contributions. "Librettists" sounds overambitious to me. The problem with "Composer of the month" has usually been biting off more than we can chew. Maybe it would be a good idea to focus on a major composer who wrote only a handful of operas and try to bring those articles up to an exellent standard (e.g. Weber, Berlioz, Stravinsky - I'm just throwing out names here to give you an idea of the type of composer I mean. I don't know the current state of their WP articles very well).--
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years ago. Putting "Herr" and "Frau" is probably a good idea if the first names cannot be found: though Grove might have something? Anyone got Grove open in front of them? What a mess that Gothic is. And zooming doesn't seem to work very well. I'll try and decipher. As far as I'm aware "Frau" is for married status, but someone had better confirm this. Best,
744:
welcome to help us out. A skeleton outline of opera after Wagner is there and needs to be filled in. Also, if anyone could add some pictures, that would be great. By the way, once this page is fixed, I'll probably be moving on to other national opera articles, since many of them seem in desperate need of attention. Cheers.--
856:, and I've filled in the ones that seem to fit. BUT I'm not very good at reading Gothic script, so a) I'm not totally sure that I've put all the names in the right place - for example, should "Röckert" be against Davenaut or Suse or both? - and b) I'm reluctant to guess at the others. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
981:
of their authors might have been, and how long ago the lists were first produced, and how long each list is relative to the others, and suchlike. Books like Kobbé seem to me to add newly fashionable operas but don't remove those that have dropped out of fashion.... Is there a statistician in the house?
886:
Answers in London: Aye, och, the play bill will be out of copyright. Uploading it to
Commons might be a good idea, then it can be easily used across all the WikiMedia projects. It's public domain as the a 2D reproduction of a work that is itself Public Domain, as the original artist died more than 70
1849:
I just changed Jazz to Opera. As for most members not being listed, I don't think that signing up on the
Project Page automatically puts you into this category - you have to manually add yourself or grab one of the user boxes from the very bottom of the Project Page, miles from the signing-up area,
980:
states that "it is inexplicably rare for this opera to actually be performed" - which chimes with my own observations, or lack of observations). Delibes is one of the more bizarre composers in the list, and I've been worrying about the relative staus of the lists that were used, and what the biases
769:
My advice is to learn by doing. I rendered a few foreign language pages myself when I started on WP and they were full of pretty bad "translationese". So then I decided that I wouldn't try to reproduce the style of the original article too closely. This is an encyclopaedia, not a work of literature
758:
Hey, I noticed an extensive list of German pages under the can you translate pages. I'd be more than happy to translate any page from German to
English or the other way around, but some guidelines would be nice, and I'll need a proof reader to keep the English sounding natural. If anybody would like
626:
How's this look? I added in all operas for all of them save
Menotti (I honestly can't find a lick of information about most of his later operas anywhere, so I figured redlinking articles for them would be worthless). If there's too much, I think we can safely drop Ward and Beeson - each one's only
743:
and myself have been working on improving the page. So far, the sections on opera before Wagner have been extensively revised and
Xeinart will probably deal with the Wagner section in the near future. If anyone else has a particular interest in the history of Austro-German opera, they are more than
1294:
It still needs some tweaking - operas shouldn't run onto a second line, and alpha order needs to be sacrificed to that end. The
Prokofiev box is always at the bottom, but I think that the side might be good. Maybe I'll stick it into different places in one or two Mozart articles tomorrow and ask
1021:
Feel free to improve any of the composer entries you like. Moreschi and I did the overwhelming majority of them at breakneck speed and some of those composers obviously took our fancy more than others. Gershwin is a particularly dull effort by yours truly. Just make sure you provide solid inline
1867:
Thanks. What happened with the user boxes was that someone changed the code with the result that the original version was de-linked to the participants page. (This happened to me and a number of others.) Not very important but perhaps it would be better to decide on one official version of the
690:
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I think we should decide the composer of the month the month before (although I'm happy to go with the proposed decision for
December). These things are dependent on people being around to do the work and it's not always possible to know that months in
866:
in her younger days (she'd have been 24), so I've put in a link. But, if she was married to Karl
Devrient then, would she be designated "Mad."? I thought "Frau" meant Mrs. Or is "Frau" an abbreviation for Fraulein? Puzzled in York.
121:, disambiguating the original, and creating a new link for Boito's opera of the same name. I've cleaned up some of the confused links, but I haven't caught them all, and I have to run right now - I'll continue later this afternoon.
946:
Well, yes, I have been able to find the full names, but I don't have the book here so I am not sure which edition I have. Another way is of course to google, e.g. search for 'Vampyr
Devrient', which should get you the full name. -
1058:(?!?) and lots of other people, except Beethoven and Shostakovich, who didn't write classical music - whereas the existing "Opera navigational templates" sub-category is in the "Performing arts navigational boxes" category.
521:
was savaged by the critics, which caused Barber to almost completely withdraw from composition - he was deeply wounded by the barbs. I've always wished there were more, but I'm afraid that those two (and the mini-opera
994:
4. Also, is anyone planning to do anything about the December composers? I feel that if this sort of exercise is going to work, then we each need to volunteer here to do some specific opera by the end of the month.
1818:
now has a template attached to the effect that "This category is being considered for renaming to Category:WikiProject Jazz participants in accordance with Knowledge (XXG)'s Categories for Discussion policies."
1835:
That template, I think, is showing wrong info: the actual categories for discussion page shows that it is proposed that the cat be renamed to "WikiProject Opera participants". That looks much more sane. Best,
596:) - all of their other works can wait. There are only three substantial Menotti operas missing articles. Deems Taylor wrote three operas, two of which made a rather large noise at their premieres (
759:
to offer some guidelines for translation, or if anyone would like to offer to be a proof reader, pop up here and say hi. It's way easier to translate an article than to write one from scratch.
409:
Sadly, old chap, I can't bring myself to decide between them either. Hence I will consult a pre-eminent NPOV source. Mr. 50-pence-piece says American composers in November, Women in December.
991:
3. Is anyone working on the November composers of the month? I don't know any of the red-linked operas, but could possibly have a go at Ward's Crucible if no-one else is working on it.
658:
This chauvinist pig has just added two female composers to the opera corpus (Elisabeth Jacquet de La Guerre and Louise Bertin). So you now have nineteen to choose from for December. --
852:
article. For the list of singers at the first performance, I've used two sources, the Oxford Dictionary of Opera, which just gives a list of surnames, and a playbill that I found
1984:, I don't think this is helpful. Treating operas written in different languages as different works (presumably needing different pages) will just cause confusion/proliferation.
1658:
703:
Right. Women composers is set up - since not on e opera is done yet, I thought it best to leave it to the top five and not add others: It's probably about what we're able to do.
1050:
Incidentally, the boxes (including also Prokofiev's ballets, symphonies, etc.) are in the category "Music navigational boxes", sub-category "Musician templates" - surrounded by
1648:
600:
was the only American opera to open a Metropolitan season between 1884 and 1966, and it wasn't a premiere.) And Hanson only wrote one opera, but it was a big deal at the time.
1047:). Maybe we ought to contemplate similar boxes for other prolific opera composers? I have no expertise in this area, but am willing to help if someone will take the lead.
900:
When the Oxford Dictionary of Opera only gives surnames it usually means that there is an article on the individual elsewhere in the book, where the full name is given. -
134:
How about "Women composers"? There's something like 17 in the opera corpus, with varying numbers of operas - most don't have more than one or two. Some are American.
831:
Thanks for catching that. Looks like the source I used was not too reliable. I've checked with the New Grove Dictionary, and added a quote from that to the article.
1663:
976:, and I plan to improve some of the more lacklustre entries (e.g. eliminating the reference to the dreaded "standard repertory" under Delibes, since the article on
124:
Also, what about a composer for November? Might I suggest something related to American opera? I've noticed a fair number of pieces getting short shrift here. --
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Hi. These navigational boxes are useful but I'd suggest introducing them gradually starting with well-covered major composers (i.e. those that are all blue).
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988:
has to be dealt with in the same way as the composers - see the late Marc Shepherd's remarks at the end of the Talk page. I'll be happy to discuss/help.
859:
Second, should I put "Herr" in front of the men's names and "Mad." or "Frau" for the women? I doubt if many of their first names will be easy to find.
427:
for sure; there's enough material about the latter's operas online, and I think I can plug some of the holes in Moore's output. There are a couple of
1653:
812:. I'd appreciate it if others could take a look and fix it up as needed. (For example, should "Teatro Regio Ducal" redirect to some other article?)
1638:
1390:
article. I've also nearly converted it into a shorter wider box for possible use below articles and will post that here today or tomorrow. --
468:) have written only two or three to date. So for those five you'd only come up with eight or nine articles, compared with eight or nine for
921:
in my 1992 edition, nor for most of those in the other lists of singers on the same page, nor even for all listed under a well-known opera (
1631:
1039:
I've noticed that works by Prokofiev now have their own navigational boxes (the opera template below was created, appropriately enough, by
644:- my father has his program from a 1968 performance at the New York City Opera, and I checked. And to the best of my knowledge, Floyd's
1386:
No, I sorted that out (and replaced the previous version with what you now see above), but do look at the positioning of the box in the
1238:
47:
17:
1429:
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533:
I love Bolcom's work, but I'm not sure any of the operas are major enough to warrant seperate treatment just yet, although I enjoyed
506:? We can probably ignore the last three: They're well-covered. I find it difficult to believe Barber only wrote two operas, though.
1193:
1976:
Don Carlos and Don Carlo are two closely related late 19th-century operas by Giuseppe Verdi, in French and Italian respectively.
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17 might be a bit too much. How about we pick 5 female opera composers, according to a totally POV criteria, and do them?
1814:
The opera project user box (which seems to have been recoded with the result that most members are no longer listed) at
517:
1596:
719:
Took care of this one this afternoon, and am now looking for images with which to pepper it - how's it look so far? --
787:
when you've got something that needs looking at. Coincidentally, I'm just now working up an article on Marschner's
1626:
38:
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Looks very good. Where will it be located? Bottom of the page or on the side? Which is the best place, I wonder?
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Well, what's the complete list of American opera composers up for consideration? The ones you mentioned plus
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These things are tricky because of the variable line lengths, but maybe one title per line might work? -
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1324:, top right. Thoughts? (And I can't see why the text doesn't start further up - any ideas, anyone?) --
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Hmm. This appears to be an attempt to create a new kind of DIY Wikpedia project within user space. -
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P.S. I assume that the playbill is out of copyright - might it be worth adding it to the page? --
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Well, it was actually premiered in Turin, according to my sources, so I've changed that bit.--
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Irrelevant anyway as we have 1FA and that's virtually it as regards "stable" articles.
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project user box? (The sign-up list of the project page is something separate . . .) -
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Are you sure? That certainly is not the case for anybody in the list of singers under
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Since I had an old reference book here, with a synopsis, I've just created the article
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431:'s works missing articles, as well. Eventually I'd like to put together articles for
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448:, I'd be in favor of maybe featuring six or seven, simply because a number of them (
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I'd still like to put in a word for American opera, though, mainly because there's
616:
I've set up a basic script for it. Couple things to fix with it, like archiving.
1811:
Greetings to all on a brief visit (I hope to be active again next year . . . .)
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46:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
254:, which I don't recall being among his wildest successes). There's nothing on
1969:
1961:
1539:
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262:'s work. In addition, I've been meaning for a while to write up something on
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791:, for which I started with the .de text translated by Google(!). --
1257:
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346:, and I've never yet read anything about his lost one-act, titled
350:, other than the fact that it existed at one point. But both of
278:, among others. If not for November, then maybe for December? --
1850:
and a lot of signers-up seem never to have done that, AFAICS. --
385:. Anyway, the above plans for the next couple months look good.
1418:
25:
303:
How about Women composers for November, American composers (+
1119:
605:
Perhaps Moore, Floyd, Menotti, Deems Taylor, and Hanson? --
419:
Sounds good to me - now what composers should be included?
366:) could stand some beefing up. And maybe a few articles on
1921:
End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.
1895:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia
968:
1. I've had something to say about the arrangement of the
783:
I'll be happy to act as proof reader - leave a message on
739:
was in serious need of a makeover. Over the last few days
115:
I took the liberty of moving Mascagni's opera to the page
862:
Third, I'm fairly sure that the first singer of Emmy was
590:) that I think really needs an article; same for Beeson (
336:
Either sounds good to me. No Joplin, though - there's a
111:
Nerone/Composers of the month for November and December
1797:
This is less breakable by increasing font size, etc.
439:'s operas, but I don't think those are as important.
1672:
1584:
1475:
1320:I've rearranged it slightly and have placed it in
1897:. If you wish to comment, please comment there.
984:2. Surely it's only a matter of time before the
1968:The article now begins with this statement (by
1412:I'd be inclined to use a more horizontal box:
1822:Perhaps someone knows what is happening here?
632:Oh, almost forgot. The Moore opera is titled
460:) only composed a single opera, while others (
1430:
1008:I'll do what I can for Ethel Smyth's operas.
383:Rushes to the toilet to be violently sick...,
8:
307:to your list?) for December, or vice-versa?
1649:People associated with Gilbert and Sullivan
1622:International Gilbert and Sullivan Festival
1816:Category:Participants in WikiProject Opera
1617:Cultural influence of Gilbert and Sullivan
1437:
1423:
1415:
1104:
340:good article on his one surviving opera,
1043:, and was inserted into the articles by
537:. Which leaves the list, basically, at:
270:, which will create links for operas by
1639:List of compositions by Arthur Sullivan
848:I've sort of more-or-less finished my
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Opera
7:
844:List of roles / German gothic script
648:is a song cycle and not an opera. --
528:) come to his whole operatic output.
238:'s operas on here, and little about
1781:
1239:Die Schuldigkeit des ersten Gebotes
667:How about Librettists for January?
925:) on another page, I'm afraid. --
24:
1780:
1771:
1770:
1654:Works about Gilbert and Sullivan
29:
1964:and Don Carlo separate operas?
810:Francesca da Rimini (Zandonai)
804:Francesca da Rimini (Zandonai)
677:I like the cut of your jib. --
1:
1950:20:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
1933:20:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
1915:23:52, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
1873:16:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
1855:22:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
1841:20:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
1830:20:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
1395:22:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
1358:17:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
1329:22:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
1300:22:28, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
1278:21:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
1194:Die Entführung aus dem Serail
1098:18:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
1085:21:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
1075:14:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
1027:20:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
1013:19:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
1003:19:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
970:List of major opera composers
892:21:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
881:18:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
872:18:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
435:'s works, as well as most of
1996:18:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
1987:Any comments? Preferably on
1802:11:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
1118:
952:11:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
930:01:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
905:23:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
864:Wilhelmine Schröder-Devrient
836:18:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
827:09:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
817:05:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
796:11:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
775:11:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
764:03:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
749:12:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
724:07:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
708:08:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
696:08:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
682:02:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
672:01:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
663:10:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
653:07:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
621:03:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
610:01:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
511:00:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
481:00:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
414:23:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
390:21:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
375:21:27, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
312:21:08, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
283:21:03, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
173:20:39, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
152:20:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
139:19:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
129:18:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
1093:How about the following? --
627:really known for one opera.
2011:
1627:W. S. Gilbert bibliography
1597:D'Oyly Carte Opera Company
106:Archives Table of Contents
1766:
1452:
266:'s administration at the
164:Sounds good. I wonder if
986:List of important operas
1980:As I've written on the
1554:The Yeomen of the Guard
1512:The Pirates of Penzance
1113:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
1807:Opera project user box
1233:Der Schauspieldirektor
1213:Mitridate, re di Ponto
1207:The Marriage of Figaro
1124:
444:As for the women from
242:besides an article on
1888:Beginning cross-post.
1689:The Sapphire Necklace
1142:Bastien und Bastienne
1123:
195:Peggy Glanville-Hicks
42:of past discussions.
1612:Bridget D'Oyly Carte
1467:Richard D'Oyly Carte
1446:Gilbert and Sullivan
1246:Il sogno di Scipione
1200:La finta giardiniera
1129:Apollo et Hyacinthus
1041:User:SergeiProkofiev
735:The main article on
518:Antony and Cleopatra
264:Giulio Gatti-Casazza
248:(and, oddly, one on
166:Germaine Tailleferre
1607:Rupert D'Oyly Carte
1155:La clemenza di Tito
1745:The Rose of Persia
1697:The Contrabandista
1125:
1045:User:203.185.57.66
1035:Navigational boxes
923:Le Nozze di Figaro
754:Can you translate?
721:User:AlbertHerring
679:User:AlbertHerring
650:User:AlbertHerring
607:User:AlbertHerring
553:Gian Carlo Menotti
478:User:AlbertHerring
472:alone, or six for
429:Gian Carlo Menotti
381:Tailleferre??????
372:User:AlbertHerring
280:User:AlbertHerring
268:Metropolitan Opera
258:'s pieces, nor on
126:User:AlbertHerring
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1664:Performing groups
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1265:
1168:La finta semplice
580:There's only one
384:
357:Trouble in Tahiti
352:Leonard Bernstein
260:Marvin David Levy
168:will win out? ;)
103:
102:
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48:current talk page
2002:
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1825:All the best. -
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1753:The Emerald Isle
1737:The Beauty Stone
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1295:for opinions. --
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1065:Prokofiev Operas
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525:A Hand of Bridge
446:the opera corpus
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368:Thomas Pasatieri
348:A Guest of Honor
193:, my 5 would be
191:the opera corpus
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741:User:Xeinart
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1883:Stablepedia
1786:WikiProject
1721:Haddon Hall
1681:Cox and Box
1659:Adaptations
1644:Grim's Dyke
1602:Helen Carte
1592:Savoy opera
1181:Lucio Silla
714:Merry Mount
582:Robert Ward
569:Jack Beeson
564:Robert Ward
474:Ethel Smyth
462:Judith Weir
437:Jack Beeson
433:Robert Ward
354:'s operas (
343:Treemonisha
256:Jack Beeson
203:Judith Weir
199:Ethel Smyth
36:This is an
1970:User:Jerzy
1962:Don Carlos
1756:(1901) w/
1540:The Mikado
919:Der Vampyr
850:Der Vampyr
833:Andrew Sly
814:Andrew Sly
789:Der Vampyr
496:John Adams
98:Archive 15
90:Archive 11
85:Archive 10
1993:Kleinzach
1982:talk page
1930:Kleinzach
1870:Kleinzach
1827:Kleinzach
1547:Ruddigore
1355:Kleinzach
1275:Kleinzach
1082:Kleinzach
974:Talk page
949:Kleinzach
902:Kleinzach
454:Amy Beach
79:Archive 9
73:Archive 8
68:Archive 7
60:Archive 5
1947:Moreschi
1838:Moreschi
1776:Category
1526:Iolanthe
1519:Patience
1174:Idomeneo
1024:Folantin
889:Moreschi
772:Folantin
746:Folantin
693:Folantin
660:Folantin
387:Moreschi
245:Susannah
149:Moreschi
1713:Ivanhoe
1705:The Zoo
1585:Related
1484:Thespis
972:on its
761:Xeinart
555:(a few)
39:archive
1909:ROCKER
1902:MESSED
1758:German
1748:(1899)
1740:(1898)
1732:(1894)
1724:(1892)
1716:(1891)
1708:(1875)
1700:(1867)
1692:(1867)
1684:(1866)
1476:Operas
1109:Operas
1052:Prince
642:Nation
636:, not
584:work (
502:, and
338:really
209:, and
118:Nerone
1258:Zaide
978:Lakmé
16:<
1991:. -
1960:Are
1893:See
854:here
638:Carr
535:View
476:. --
464:and
423:and
360:and
274:and
1972:):
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456:,
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232:no
205:,
201:,
197:,
94:→
64:←
1911:★
1900:★
1438:e
1431:t
1424:v
213:.
50:.
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