Knowledge talk:WikiProject Australian rules football/Archive 2

2285:(Edit conflict)Not that I trust my judgment on AFL at all, because I didn't follow it, but as an Adelaidean, I remember everyone raving about how Malcolm Blight reversed everything around in the Grand Final and put - can't remember his name - some guy from fullback into full forward and apparently it was regarded as a masterstroke. Then Silvagni gets switched around from FF ro FB a lot, and sometimes Andrew McLeod plays in a whole pile of places so that's not such a good idea. I guess more so in soccer, the players need to be much more specialized and they can't swap strikers into defense and vv, but even then - although you get some strikers who sit in the penalty box all day like Ruud v Nistelrooy, and can be safely categorized as "striker" - you will also get some strikers like Thierry Henry who often run from halfway in midfield to score goals, as well as people like Harry Kewell who plays left-wing, striker, attacking midfielder, and is also sometimes put on right-wing as a gimmick tactic, etc. Then there will be some days when some defender flukes a couple of goals when the whole team is at one end for a corner and wins the game. As I noted before, AFL positions seem to be even more prone to putting people in different positions etc, so the ambiguity increases even more. 830:, see how far down the "tree" those blue links go. The leagues with articles start at tier 11, and most of the tier 9 leagues have stub articles for all their clubs. Getting back to Aussie Rules, to be roughly equivalent since we don't have the same strict promotion-demotion hierarchy (which actually makes things easier because the makeup of leagues is more static, making for briefer histories), if the AFL is 1, the state leagues cover 2-4, the strongest suburban and country leagues cover 5-6, then the ones I'm talking about probably do rank around 7-9. With club articles, basic information about club location, premierships, league memberships, nicknames, jumper designs, and notable players (be they notable for playing football or for other reason) isn't all that hard to find if you know where to look, given that there are at least a few websites already dedicated to this aim. Similar deal with leagues, most leagues have at least a few notable players from their midst, lists of premiers aren't hard to find, and listing admissions, explusions and mergers of clubs isn't much harder if you can find a source. 1174:(that Melbourne had connived to become the capital city of Victoria over Geelong). Similar tales can be told about most senior clubs in Australia, they all have a similar tale to tell, and invariably they take us back to pre-Federation days - even in Sydney, which has a few clubs dating back to the 1890s. More often than not, the tales, the folklore, the mystique, of certain clubs take us back to the 1860s and 1870s (1859 in the case of Melbourne). Now, apart from the Melbourne Cup and cricket, both extremely important in terms of Austrlian culture, what other sport in has left as large a footprint on Australian history, folklore and culture as Australian football? It is this sense that I fear has been lost completely from the section that supposedly covers the importance of sport in Australian culture. (I know I sort of promised to leave this bugbear alone, but, well, I couldn't help myself...) 3324:

is officially recognised in the Dreamtime at the G match. It is therefore appropriate to identify players that can qualify for this as they wear and fly this flag at All-Star games. It should also be fine to identify Irish players such as Tadhg Kenelly, who represented Ireland against Australia in the International Rules series. New Zealand born players qualify for the Falcons national team and PNG born players qualify for the Mosquitos. Hence Mal Michael was invited to represent PNG at the last International Cup. Damian Cupido conceivably could play for the Buffaloes. The flags should not be removed, they represent the burgeoning internationalisation of the game. --

1112:

sport is an important element of Australian culture, and it's hard to imagine any sport as important to Australian culture as Australian football. It's not just the media coverage, the crowds, the TV ratings, memberships, merchandinsing (although that by itself should almost be enough), but it's also the long history of some clubs, the pervasiveness of it all in the lives of many Australians, and the cross-over that has occurred in the arts, in terms of literature and exhibitions. No other sport comes close. So if sport is an important element to Australian culture, why does it not even hint at the importance of aussie rules. I invite you to add your views to both

1499:

rules, the game being codified in the following year, making the game older than Association Football. Interestingly, it was once thought that the Geelong Football Club was the second oldest club in Australia (formed in July 1859), but there is now new evidence indicating that the Castlemaine Football Club was in fact formed in June 1859. That makes it the 5th oldest club in the world, and Geelong the 6th oldest club in the world. I thought to myself as I read this: How appropriate that a club evocatively called "Castlemaine" (part of a gold mining region in central Victoria) should have such an honour. It is possible that the

3222:

people from overseas in Aussie Rules and the list will only increase as more players from non-Australian backgrounds filter through the system ! It will not be long before there are Sudanese, Indian, Lebanese and other such countrymen playing the game at the top level. Multiculturalism is something to be proud of not ashamed of. It is not POV, it is just plain fact. Latest statistics show a very high take up of non-English Why not have multiple flags on their player profile ? One for the country, one for the state, and an optional one for Aboriginal heritage ? --

2940:

definitely inappropriate when modern nicknames are used for the 1917 season, for example, or for categories containing players/coaches from that era. Apart from that, it isn't normal even now for the longer names to be used for results or ladders in official or serious sources. Brisbane, the Kangaroos, the Bulldogs, and to a lesser extent Sydney and WC are special cases. In the context of list of VFL/AFL results or a ladder, it is not necessary to distinguish the team from the places, as it is obvious that we are talking about football teams.

1495:

impossible dream (not meaning to be disrespectful, simply an honest assessment). This new series of stamps is entitled "Soccer in Australia". When the General Manager of Australia Post was asked why use the term "soccer", he simply said that it was Australia Post's view that that is the name used by the majority of Australians, and that the word football is saved for the more dominant code of a particular area, i.e. aussie rules or league.

31: 95: 2622:, i cringed when i saw "South Melbourne Swans" and "Fitzroy Lions", because apart from the factual error in the names (Swans and Lions being adopted as nicknames later on), i think it's misleading in the way it presents the team names, in the sense in which nicknames were acquired and used in australian rules. So it's a cultural, "information correctness" (poorly phrased, i know), and formatting issue from where i stand. 3334:

silly side); and just as importantly, 2. as someone said earlier, being the immigrant country that we are, there are stacks of players who have played the game that may have been born in another country (Italy, Greece, Holland, etc.) but who immigrated as very young children - and they may not necessarily appreciate seeing, say, an Italian flag next to their name when they may only have ever really known one country.

2119:

Carlton image was removed as it was almost the club logo and maybe the Brisbane, Western Bulldogs and Fitzroy (defunct) images should be removed as well. I'm not sure about Fremantle, Port Adelaide and Sydney. Most of the images should be okay, though, and in the cases that are not simpler images could be used. For example, Carlton are the (Navy) Blues, so why not a blue square? (Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer) --

3991:

collective hazy memories? If it is just the latter, that would present us with a problem. As an example, where will we find the name Kardinia Park? And given that the Docklands Stadium is private real estate, where will we find that name (apart from earlier media references)? Ultimately, that may will determine the extent to which we employ such a policy - apart from that one proviso, I would be all for it.

3932:, I now have a version with some grey lines. I'm not sure I am either for or against this one. I have also had a couple of attempts at a 94-99 system. The other thing I thought of was whether there should be some sort of standard for which team is placed on top in each game. We could set it out so that it fits in with the rest of the table, or so that the "home" team is on top. As far as I can tell, the example at 1885:

need to find a good source of pictures for use. AFL.com.au and the club sites primarily run by Tesltra Bigpond are currently the best source and the only half decent source. I suggest we send emails to the AFL asking for permission to use the images on their site. We could also take it up with Telstra bigpond but them being a corporation they are unlikely to cooperate.

2930:

places. I think an even worse idea would be to add "Football Club" on to the end of places to distinguish them as names... nobody refers to teams that way, but they certainly do with their nicknames. I woud at the very least hope there is a longer discussion than a few hours before someone starts writing up a style guide!

1787:

matches. I think this is the real problem with the 2006 AFL season article. I don't feel we need to list every single result that happened, just the notbable ones i.e. Richmond beating Adelaide, the ANZAC Day clash, the Derbies and the Showdowns. Apart from that I don't think anything else belongs in there.

809:), or was it always a club based either in a larger town, or on its own separate from the towns it drew players from? If it was from the town, it seems reasonable that the town and club history could stay together until both articles can stand alone, as their history and current status are intertwined. -- 3488:

Agree 100%. South is not a former club, it is the same club that is now playing out of Sydney. It was a founding club of the VFL, it moved its home games to Sydney in 1982 (with the other formal changes in name and domicile occurring after that first season) and it has won 4 premierships - it's the

3379:

would be a worthwhile new article for someone to tackle. This could give specifics on the Aboriginal players present and past and their disctribution amongst the clubs. Club articles aren't there to highlight each players ethnicity. On a minor note, I sometimes wonder if these little flags aren't

3255:

If we are going assign flags to players will we be adding American, Korean and Australian flags for Peter Bell or Austrian flags to Alex Jesaulenko? There could be an argument that the Aboriginal flags could be appropriate but it's not really the role of this place to make that sort of determination.

3049:

I think it has just been somthing that some people decided to do upon seeing other soccer club pages where they have the flag of the country of origin for their players. This is appropriate, as many soccer clubs around the world have players from different countries. AFL generally has just Australian

2687:

It's a good point, once we start adding additional words like players, coaches, etc - there is less need to qualify Collingwood with Magpies (for example). In relation to referring to a club within an article, I agree that one should never read Fitzroy Lions, etc. - we have the solution there and we

2505:

The AFL club sites update the profiles for their new list each year. Do you think it is possible for someone to write off to the clubs and request to use the players photos on wikipedia once they have updated their profiles in the new season. I know we cant get all the players this way, but at least

1888:

To quote from the AFL.com.au copyright policy: "1.3 You must not otherwise reproduce, transmit (including broadcast), adapt, distribute, sell, modify or publish or otherwise use any of the material on the site, including audio and video excerpts, except as permitted by statute or with Telstra's prior

1884:

The lack of pictures able to be used is really limiting the quality of AFL footballer articles. Most sportmen articles seem to have that problem, with images only up a short time before they are removed by Wikinazis. Now I'm not blaming the rules, Knowledge has to cover themselves legally, however we

1460:

Currently they are not acknowldging that Australian Rules Football is the most popular sport there. They say we need more stastistic on the other sports there. They must be delusional if they think it isn't. Funny how they can say rugby is the most popular in QLD, NSW and ACT (where union is) without

1429:

Just my 2 cents on this issue: I don't think any AFL club songs meet this criterion. Most club songs date back no later than the 1920s (as an example I understand Fitzroy's was devised in the 1940s), it's extremely unlikely that the creator/s of the songs have been dead for 50 years. I have to concur

948:

I understand that this is neither here or there, and that the article isn't about a popularity contest. At the same time, we do get a lot of ill-informed criticism (and out and out vandalism) in this article, and so it's not a bad little extract to keep up our sleeves for the next time this argument

4010:

If these non-sponsored names are specified in some sort of citable ABC guide then that would clearly be useful; the ABC is frequently cited as a reference for Australian English usage and I'm sure it's as useful in this instance also. I'm pretty sure they refer to the Dome as "Docklands" or (better)

3976:

I'd like to put forward the suggestion that the official public name be used for the article titles of each venue (hence Football Park, Princes Park, Docklands Stadium et al), and the sponsored names (Football Park, Optus Oval or M.C. Labour Park or whatever, Telstra Dome) be set up as a redirect to

3393:

Rulesfan is completely correct that the idea of flags in other sports lists is to indicate which representative teams the player qualifies for. However, at this point in time, representative football, both international and interstate, is not a significant part of the sport. I wish it was, but until

3333:

You make a reasonable argument, and I too have sympathy with the view that indigenous representation in aussie rules is something worth highlighting. I guess my real beef is with: 1. seeing a long list of Australian flags in a sport that is almost exclusively Australian (that I do find a bit on the

3323:

a representative team against AFL and SANFL clubs and also at other levels, for instance the touring U19 Aboriginal side against the South African Buffaloes in Potchesfroom. 10% of all players in the AFL are of aboriginal heritage. This is a significant contribution to the game of Aussie Rules and

2550:

I'll admit that this is something that bothers me outside of Knowledge as well, but anyway, here goes. I don't really like sides (especially the Victorian sides who still maintain their original name) being listed as "Collingwood Magpies" or "Essendon Bombers". I don't think that "American style" of

1139:

Sliat, (please sign your posts), I think you must be kidding yourself. The fact that they rugby codes are in one sentence and then football is in the next with soccer only says something about about what is more important if you forget to read the rest of the words in the two sentences! And the same

1057:

I don't think there is any rewording necessary. I think it covers the situation very well. AFL really isn't an international sport, so it can't really be covered in that section. Intl Rules isn't big enough to warrant a mention. That only leaves it as a national sport. Which is where it is. There is

734:

I agree with Remy. When the bulk of the incoming links to a town are about the football club, it will be obvious to regular editors of that town that their football is important. Using my example above, there are seven towns that nobody has yet thought are important enough to write an article about.

3730:

Biographical articles are generally disambiguated as much as is necessary. In other words, if there are no other footballers with that name, (footballer) would be ok, although there wouldn't be anything wrong with (Australian rules footballer). If there is a soccer/league/union/gridiron player with

2929:

Are you all saying that in the ladder and results articles, that the team names like "West Coast Eagles" and "Essendon Bombers" will be shortened to "West Coast" and "Essendon"? If so, I dont really like that idea. What is wrong with the longer naming? It clearly distinguishes teams from the actual

1952:

That's not a bad idea. Depending on how dedicated we are to this project, if we could find some people in each state willing to visit each club, we could organise with the clubs to set up a Wiki-photoshoot for the 2007 season and beyond, for use on here. It'd probably start costing money though, if

1786:

I think that the season articles need the following: The Grand Final result, the pre-season result, an end-of-home-and-away-season ladder (or as recent as possible), as many awards as possible, a link to and possible summary of the All-Australian Team of that year (if their was one) and any NOTABLE

720:

I think that having two different links in the same phrase is very confusing, and unorthodox within Knowledge articles, so I disagree with that idea. If there is no article for a club, and there is very little likelihood of it ever being notable enough to have one made for it without being deleted,

3972:

One of my pet Wikihates for some time has been the use of venue names that include sponsors names, eg. AAMI Stadium instead of Football Park. Obviously, the majority of people refer to these grounds by their new sponsored monikers. However in the context of an encyclopaedia this is problematic. If

3665:

I started that category - the reason I named it that was that I saw on each club's page that someone had put up "Current roster". Not really hearing the term much in Aussie rules but not having a problem with it, the category was named so. Good that someone's come across it now and we can get some

4070:

This approach means that whenever one of these venues get a new sponsor (which is inevitable) we can create a new redirect page with the new sponsor's title and not have to change a single link in any pre-existing article. It also means that any existing pages which link to AAMI Stadium and Optus

2723:

Well, my position is as above, that the change should be made to "standard" australian rules usage. This is to reflect the culture from which aussie rules came out of, which provides a more accurate picture of the game/topic as a whole to readers who are not familiar with aussie rules, especially

2478:

Im trying to find the location of the consensus which meant when you search for "Australian national football team" it goes to the soccer team. I have found several discussions on this issue but none come to a consensus. I am beginning to think that the soccer mafia had more time to put into the

2000:

Exactly my thoughts Remy. I've been unable to take photos due to mainly forgetting to bring the camera :o. I've taken it on a couple of occassions but I've been up on Level 2 where the clarity of the players' faces isn't great (at least with my camera). Anyway I'll try and grab some photos in the

1403:

The newer clubs aside, most lyrics do go back to more than 50 years ago, not only that, they nearly all represent a rewording of existing army songs or Broadway show tunes, or in the case of the Geelong song, an (extremely) old opera tune. Often the redone lyrics go back so far that no one would

791:

came from there for a start. Plus you can also put dates (of flags, league changes, mergers and that) and venues there if nothing else. I probably will try to endeavour and do small articles on all the small clubs around Albury (where I am) at some point, because this stuff is interesting to some

3990:

Your reasoning is sound - doesn't the ABC have a similar policy? i.e. a preference for the official public name. Only one question - does the official public name continue to exist in a verifiable form somewhere, say, in road directories, the doomsday book, etc. - or do they simply exist in our

3221:

Having 3 countries where the sport is played professionally does not really justify flags on all but 2 club pages. My point is that there it is typical to find flags for squad members on almost every other sport in Knowledge ... why should Australia be any different ? There are almost as many

2939:

Well, discussion before finalising the style guide is a good idea, but it doesn't hurt to start writing it first - that way it attracts more comments. Yes, the original suggestion by Blackmissionary was that in results lists "Essendon" should be used, not "Essendon Bombers". The longer naming is

2845:

Yep, that seems pretty good to me, easy to follow, and exactly as has been put in the discussion above. As for how we are to refer to certain teams: not sure what the Sydney Swans situation is in regards to how the name is used, but Brisbane Lions is officially like that, and enforced as such on

1974:

I think there is very little chance that they would let you do a free photo shoot. Taking photos close to the boundary of most games on a relatively good digital camera would probably look more exciting for the articles, and require less effort since surely at least a few of us also go to games.

1753:

article. The person who started the season summaries about a year (or more) ago on this site was just establishing a framework of statistics that haven't been expanded, which is why people may be reluctant to add any other information. But by all means, include any notable events and/or matches.

1111:

I have tried to argue the case in both the talk page and in the Aussie noticeboard, with little success. I am not really satisfied with the responses I am getting, and I agree it is because people unfamiliar with aussie rules are acting as guardians for that article. My proposition is simple:

841:

I don't really disagree with anything you have said, but there is a more important overiding principle that is generally accepted in this field, and that is, the article on the league itself (regardless of tier) should be a comprehensive in its own right before considering whether clubs merit an

3856:

What issues do you mean? That appears to be how it is supposed to look. It looks the same as that for me, I'm still on Firefox 1.5.0.5. If you mean the fact that some of the horizontal lines are thicker than others, I think that is on purpose - it is to show the winner of one match goes to a

3060:

and see that the AFL has 2 Irish (up to 4 on rookie lists), 2 New Zealanders, 1 Papua New Guinean, 1 Fijian, 1 South Korean and 1 Brazilian, plus 10% of players are Australians with Aboriginal heritage. These players add important diversity to the game and should therefore be highlighted. For

1498:

In today's edition, there was a great article about the proposal to heritage list the Melbourne Football Club, the oldest football club in Australia (in any code) and the third oldest in the world (in any code). It was formed in 1858, the year in which we have the first recorded game of aussie

2188:

based on their specialist skills, but the reality is everyone bats and many non-bowlers bowl, so the distinctions get blurred and the next thing you know you've got an edit war. The cat's were subsequently deleted. I'd predict the same thing would happen here. Only use categories of they're

2118:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 7 of these images are simply three stripes and I'm sure no club owns copyright on that. The Essendon, Melbounrne, Richmond, South Melbourne and University designs are also simple geometric patterns, which several (hundred?) other clubs also use. I can see why the

1852:. I understand there are some things that belong on there that don't belong on Knowledge, and vice versa. I have added some information on many of the previous VFL/AFL drafts. If this is considered "advertising" let me know, but I would object to that as I would consider these sister projects. 1806:

I think game results are a primary set of information on a season. By all means go into detail on the notable games, but I think the game results tables are a very handy reference. At the least compare it to the cricket articles where there is full blown commentary on each test match and ODI.

1664:

I've asked about this once before, and I think it is worth asking again: how is it possible that the only photo of aussie rules we have, in the whole of wikipedia, is something that looks like one of those old Sun spot the ball competitions? Let's find something that really shows our game -

3889:

Of the options, my personal taste says that the second works best here, and since at least one other person likes it, I'm happy with it. Of course, this system has only been used since 2000. It is actually impossible to represent the 1994-1999 system (current NRL system) in this sort of way.

3045:

In the current squad areas of the club pages there are Aborignial flags next to the names of Aboriginal players, and then some of the clubs have the flags from the state of origin of the other players. I think there needs to be something done about this. I don't feel that it is right to have

2654:

is something that needs to be looked at and voted on. In the early days of this project (6-8 or so months back) when I was setting up all the categories for players, I went with the "American" nicknames due to noone really caring or having a say in what they should be called. I then made the

2983:

ok, so if someone edits an article in the way we've been discussing, what should they put in the edit summary? and also, if we agree to this, and we have a style guide ready, we should make it known reasonably soon that it exists, as there seem to be a few results lists and ladders with the

1494:

There have been two articles that have appeared in the sports section of The Age newspaper over the last two days that are of great interest to us. In yesterday's edition, I read that Australia Post is about to release a series of stamps to celebrate the Socceroos' attempt to embark on the

1392:

The lyrics to culb songs are the copyright of the author (unless the author has been dead for over 50 years), and as such cannot be reproduced in Wikipeida - it is Ok to quote a small section of the song is discussed in the article. Please remove full lyrics from articles where they

1033:

Since when are we competing with The Age? Knowledge is about writing an encyclopedia of notable material, not getting publicity. That said, I would prefer the ladder as it is, if we start putting in arbitrary stats it will become a mess of relevant and irrelevant information.

658:

I would also wait until I saw a clear standard for eligibility of article for a football club before I started to make these sorts of assumptions. If they are eligible, it would be counter-productive to redirect the article to something else which would put off to-be editors.

4026:? Maybe use templates named like {{Aus-Stadium Dockl}} and {{Aus-Stadium York}} (which expand to ] and ]) respectively, and then when the next sponsor comes up we can just change the templates to ] or whatever! The follow on question from that being - should the links in 904:

THE AFL is doing very nicely, thank you. It is not just the 91,234 crowd that turned up for Tuesday's Anzac Day match that is the undeniable indicator. The AFL commission has recently viewed a 67-page document that says the competition is in health so rude it is borderline

4091:

I personally like to use original names in this sort of context, but I think Knowledge policy about common names probably suggests we don't do it. The ABC is not particularly helpful in this regard, as they have a policy to avoid advertising, whatever the common name is.

2483:

Speaking purely as an aussie rules afficionado, this is one occasion when I am happy to let the soccer mafia have their way. I believe all the other teams have a particular name, maybe a couple of names - the socceroos can have this one if they want it, I'm not fussed.

4006:

I understand your point, but I think you've answered it yourself. If the ABC uses those names (which it does) then that's a source we can easily point to as a reference. Plus many people still use the original names rather than the (in my opinion) crass sponsors names

1080:

But - it is mentioned under the sub-title "Culture" - so whether aussie rules is international or not has absolutely nothing to do with it. Is it an important part of Australian culture? - clearly it is! but you wouldn't think so from the way it is currently worded.

3973:

the sponsor changes, as has happened several times at Geelong for example, then the article needs to be moved and every article amended to point to the new article (rather than point to a redirect which is against Wikipolicy) - a tedious and probably impossible task.

2099:(or whatever the Swannies user box is). Can somebody do something about that please - it is making my user page look crap and I'd rather have it there with a nice logo than take the user box off, but I'm not the person to make a professional-looking logo... is the 2659:

because I thought it would be better to use the official name. But it's created a conflict and without much input from others in the past, now that we have a few people interested in the project we should look into getting a consensus on the naming of categories.

506:. Those examples are different to a fixed season like we have in the AFL. Those cricket examples are simply about the national team's activity in that time period, rather than their activity in a particular annual event like the AFL and my other examples have. 3361:

I just feel that its not encyclopaedic enough to be listed in the club article. I also have sympathy with Rulesfan's arguments but, IMO club articles should include only information such as history, important milestones/records/players etc. We currently have

3010:

It should be quite easy to do for the season articles because of the team name templates (I knew there would one day be a reason I made them!). As for edit summaries - I would highly recommend referring to this discussion (eg. "Change team name format per

2551:

sports naming is appropriate for australian rules football, and you'd never hear a person ever call them that in public. I'd rather have sides listed as just "Collingwood", "Essendon" etc. in results and tables. What are other people's thoughts on this?

1575:, where someone was linking to streaming videos on the AFL.com.au site that are only available to BigPond users but due to weak protection by the site, anyone could link to them and access them. The site ran for about a year before the AFL shut it down. 2529:

You would need to ask the holders of the photos' copyright to release the photos into the public domain, under GFDL, or something like that, as Knowledge does not use images by permission only. I would be surprised if they agreed to such a request.

1720:

Apologies if this has already been discussed. For the VFL/AFL season summaries, are we only going to include end of season stats, ladders, etc., or can we also include a few brief paragraphs detailing notable or important happenings of each season?

3046:

Aborignal flags next to the Aboriginal players names, and then the state flags next to other players. The Aboriginal flag does not represent a state and therefore those players with a state flag are being represented as something different.

1140:

people who reverted your edits are the ones who stopped a crazy rugby league fan trying to say (our) football is a "regional game". Peta has suggested a good idea - mention that it is the most popular spectator sport in the image caption.

3904:

I vote for yours as well JPD. I wonder if it is possible to make some of the lines a different colour, to signify the "loser" of the game. Anyway, my next challenge is the 1994-1999 system - I might leave that one until later on :) --

3273:

which is not a separate country, therefore making the list misleading. If its important to anyone, a players ethnicity can be seen by clicking on his article, where it presumably will be spelt out. I'd like to see these removed. --

826:, which is in the same league as Osborne) some of these are running really close to the blurry line between notable and not-notable. (For instance, long-defunct clubs could just remain as footnotes in other articles). But then look at 3269:) has little flags next to each player, presumably denoting his country of origin. This all seems a bit silly because a) 99% of players are from Australia; and b) Indigenous Australian players have the Australian Aboriginal flag 2757:

Anything that is obviuosly incorrect should be corrected, definitely. Replacing "Collingwood Magpies" with "Collingwood Football Club" or simply "Collingwood" is also a good thing. We probably need to keep "Brisbane Lions", and

2051:

clubs, as well as the past clubs. These can be used for 'decoration' to represent the clubs or their players/officials instead of the official club logos, which wouldn't be allowed under the fair usage policy. Also available in

970: 1503:

article may need to be reviewed, but I mention it here just in case: 1. I run into difficulties (as I undoubtedly will), and 2. Someone out there has access to a better (or simply another) reference than this Age article.

1171:

As I clicked through the turnstile at the MCG...I was reminded that the battles on Corio Oval during the 1880s, when Geelong won half a dozen premierships, weren't just footy matches, they were about Geelong people righting

1419:

This is definaelty not the case for the newer clubs. The lyrics don't need to be 50 years old, the author of the lyrics needs to have been dead for at least 50 years. To be one the safe side, the full lyrics should not be

1649:

Great work from Bastique there. I've updated those that I felt needed updating due to poor quailty (Hawthorn, Collingwood), size (Richmond), colour (Fremantle, Kangaroos, West Coast) or they just weren't right (Carlton).

156:). I think it would be a good idea to get a decent consensus on how we should name the season articles, especially before anyone starts doing decent work on the previous seasons (which are fairly barebone at the moment). 675:

to link to the town instead, and still got seven red links—no way those town articles will get too big to not have the footy club in the same article! Most already had at least one other link (from list of postcodes).

1602:

In accordance with a follow-up email, whereupon the AFL have sent us official club logos, I have done an automated upload of the "official" club logos, as sent to us by the AFL. These are all available in category

2423:

history deserves an article, maybe include the members of the last Fitzroy side among other things. There's a series on the 10th anniversary of their demise starting today in the Herald Sun, which got me thinking.

1907:

I don't know whether the AFL are likely to give such permission, but Knowledge policy does not allow use of "by-permission-only" images anyway, as Knowledge content is meant to be able to be reused under the GFDL.

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discussion, and maybe had more people with the adminastrator tag. I firmly believe that it should be a disambiguation page. This is not because of the All-Australian team, but more because of the rugby teams.

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would stay as is until some user makes the decision to update them to the ] format, eg. ]. Using templates would have the effect of suggesting that Carlton's home ground in 1970 was called Optus Oval, and so

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former clubs, and must have separate articles. The Brisbane Lions was a new club coming into existence in 1997, it has won 3 premierships. Fitzroy had won 8 before it ceased to exist. Two separate clubs.

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There seems to be some display issues with that template, although I do like the direction you are heading. It worked well for the FIFA World Cup articles (and probably others) and I think it will here too.

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Please remember that logos tagged with {{fairuse}} can't just be used anywhere. Fair use is strictly forbidden in templates and outside the main namespace. It is also not permitted to use it for decoration

1244:

It might be possible to even have a category below the Domestic one, especially for the main footballing states, but that could end up just as messy, perhaps better to simply leave it under Domestic etc.

1542:, has received a response to an enquiry sent to the AFL regarding the use of their logos. I have not been able to determine who initiated this enquiry, or for what purpose, but the response from AFL is: 842:

article - it there is nothing much to say about a particular league - then that might well answer the question as to whether a particular club is notable enough to warrant an article in its own right.

1545:

You would definitely require approval to use any of the AFL and AFL Club logos and these are the intellectual property of the AFL. We would need to know what they are being used for and for how long.

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Everything in that category seems a little disorganised. Anyone have any suggestions on how we can separate all the competitions? I'm thinking along the lines of competitions within each country.

1091: 653: 2698: 1239: 3344: 2605: 2494: 320:, as it will get a closer hit. IMHO, people think what am I after, rather than what year am I after. It is only once they find what they are after, that they then go to the year they are after. 1053:

page has made it look like Australian football is as lowly supported as soccer and that Rugby and cricket are more popular. Please everyone go there and try to make it look fairer. Re-word it.

643:

I generally use the name of the town alone as the main link. This seems to be the way to go while there remains much doubt as to whether small footy clubs should have articles of their own.

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same club. The same applies to North Melbourne/Kangaroos and Footscray/Western Bulldogs. Just to clarify further, it's a different situation for Brisbane Lions. Fitzroy and Brisbane Bears

3284:

I have to admit that this flag business strikes me as a bit silly too. Maybe we can revisit the idea in 10 years time (but only if more than 10% of all players are actually born overseas).

1169:

I know many struggle to understand the prime position aussie rules has in Australian history and her culture, perhaps this quote from today's Age, by John Harms, will assist in a small way:

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it is, it seems a bit silly to have all these flags. On a side note, if and when state-of-origin comes back into fashion, pictures based on the jerseys might look better than state flags.

1892:

A nicely worded letter to the AFL, stating that this would help promote the game in the world's biggest online encyclopedia may appeal to them. It is a longshot but perhaps it could work.

167:

of the season article name and why? Please sign your name at the end of your vote with ~~~~. Once it is clear which one is preferred, we can either leave it as is or rename the articles.

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Oval and the like will not have broken links - and the links to redirect pages can be progressively fixed up, so that links to ] (which will still work regardless) can be changed to ].

3598:

It's not up to Knowledge to resist the tide, but report (and use) normal usage; rookie is used officially by the AFL (as in "rookie list"). I don't know where "roster" came in though.

2253:. That is the only way it would work and I'm just throwing up ideas, but otherwise I'd say leave it alone. In American Football quarterbacks don't stray from their role much do they? 1548:

I am responding to them now, explaining that the logos are being used under Knowledge "fair use" guidelines, and pointing them to this project page and the main AFL page. Thank you.

2724:

possible overseas ones (even if it is largely subliminal). So if i;m right inhow i how read it, i guess we have the go ahead to use Pippu's suggestion of going aheafd and fixing it?

3914:

Are you thinking some sort of grey? Oops... I originally left out the word "impossible" in my previous statement. The 94-99 system (and the 92-93 one) require a different approach.

3731:

the same name, (Australian rules footballer) would probably be appropriate. Of course, when there are two aussie rules players with the same name, we need to disambiguate further.

2040:

found/uploaded/otherwise compiled a table of uniform colours. The article it was in is up for deletion, so here it is. I'll leave one of the project members to put it on the main

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and so on. Then we create new articles for the sponsored names (eg. Optus Oval, AAMI Stadium) which are simple redirects to the full articles held under the original venue names.

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a copyright problem, or only if we copy it from their website (ie, if we make something that looks like theirs does, do they still own it even though someone else made it?)

2561:

Whole-heartedly agree with you. I think it would be better if the non-Victorian teams referred to just as "Adelaide" or "Sydney" rather than with their nicknames attached.

1926:

I don't know how committed you guys are to this project and this site but would anyone want to go for trips to the clubs and try and take photos of the players themselves?

1828:

is the Australian collaboration of the week, and could do with a bit more work. Also, there are a few legends that deserve much better articles than they currently have.

692:"? The thing is once there are enough links to a club (eg Dandenong Football Club) all those players could be listed under a section of "players to come from this club"... 2583:

I think everyone who follows aussie rules would agree with you 100%. However, in a Knowledge environment, having the title of an article for, say, Collingwood, show up as

1797:

I don't really want to see results at all (except for the grand finals). Notable events (ie major player achievements, some off-filed stuff)and games should be mentioned.

1229:

What about two categories: Domestic Australian rules football competitions and Overseas Australian rules football competitions, both being a sub-category of the above?

3834:

Awesome! I like JPD's version better! So much I have copied it into that template :) Do you know how much I googled for images so I could base I diagram off it :P --

4074:

The reason I raise the issue is for discussion and a vote, you understand; I know this is a tad controversial and I wouldn't dream of making this decision unilaterally.

1295:. For sports logos, the only required use should be on the team's article, and perhaps an article about the history of the team in which the logo is discussed. Thanks, 1675: 1126: 1195: 399:- Everything should be uniform across wikipedia (BTW, shouldn't it be called "2006 AFL season" or is there another competition elsewhere in the world called that?) 2883:

Should the style guide explicitly mention that in tables of results or ladders the appropriate short form of the official name as used at the time should be used?

3319:

In my opinion, following the soccer model it is about representation. Representation is not always professional. Players of aboriginal descent qualify for the

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Tried that, anubis, they can't accept it. They must have rugby first and afl stuck with soccer. Just shows how obviously Sydney-based that section is becoming.

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If it does not become to unwieldly, I would have thought the latter. It can only enhance the article if it includes such a description with quality writing.

3875:

Yeah, the thicknesses were deliberate - only one mistake, which I will fix. I think it's the system that's a bit "convoluted". I see three ways of doing it:

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I don't quite like the categorisation of South Melbourne as a "former club", when it is actually a former name of the club. In fact, I have suggested at

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Yep it should be alright. The AFL seems to be cracking down on all websites that use their brand in some way. I'm sure many AFL fans would know of the

1058:

a link to the AFL article, so anyone who is more interested can get the true picture by going to the link. Does the AFL article give the true picture?

3015:

consensus") (note: the link is bold because this is the page itself), otherwise people will think someone is pushing their viewpoint on the articles.

3436:

I like it Ian, good job. I am going to add an addition which I dont think should be too controversial. There are many many links in AFL articles to

2973:(moving tabs back to the start...) I've looked at it a bit more carefully and I agree with what you're saying. I'm happy for the change to be made. 1260:

Domestic and overseas categories sound good. It might also be worth having Victorian, SA, WA, etc categories. However, I don't think the SANFL, VFL

555:

As per what I've seen for other associations season write-ups. Redirects would surely be used anyways. I'd also put my support in for shortening to

152:, etc.). The 2006 season article has since been named back to the original name because that is the standard for the other AFL season articles (see 112: 792:

people, plus it'll probably encourage other dabblers to do the same. Even if someone else will have to hit the articles with the NPOV stick later.

787:, for an example. There isn't even a town. The football club is Osborne. And it's worth it to write at least a few sentences about Osborne because 3509:

I don't disagree but cannot see that it's a big issue. The title on the separator was for convenience only. I've removed the heading anyway. --

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I think the flags should be removed. There is no reason to racially identify players in the lists (no problems with the individual's article).

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Individual pages ok of course, but on team pages, when practically every player is Australian, irrelevant in my opinion, same as state flags.

2337:

Funny, but I just came here to ask the exact same question. Prompted by listening to the quiz on ABC radio on Saturday. I support the idea.

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Hey. Im just wondering what the concept when a page is a disam page. Is it (footballer) or (Australian rules footballer) or what. Cheers,

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If the football team is the most important thing about that place name, it will be obvious when the place article is written. For example

3024:

Yeah, thanks, the link was what i wanted most, in order to avoid exactly that which you mentioned, the perception of pushing viewpoints.

1439:

I imagine that most of the official club sites would have the lyrics there so we could include a link in place of quoting the full text.

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changed to a disambig or possibly redirect. I also jsut realised that the table doesn't deal with the issue of anachronistic nicknames.

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always stay as "Telstra Dome", since that is what the venue was called at the time? Or to make myself clearer - are we discussing the

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It should be, if not the national flag, the state flag given that all professional Australian rules football is played in Australia.--

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after noticing that it is customary on the majority of Knowledge sport annual articles to put the year at the start (my examples were

359:. In fact that has already been solved with redirects, so that you can type in either and you will still end up at the same article. 3236:

The Aboriginal flag should obviously not replace a state flag, even if flags are used at all, which I tend to think is a bit silly.

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It wasn't about article titles (especially considering they are simply redirected anyway), but more so for within articles. Like in

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I'm all for the idea - but if we are trying to bypass linking to a redirect, then won't that mean replacing all the links in (say)

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Whether it's worth keeping a separate page is a bit more of an issue. I tend to think any mention of the club should be piped to

1825: 1342: 4101: 4086: 4042: 3984: 3945: 3923: 3909: 3899: 3870: 3861: 3851: 3838: 3829: 3811: 3800: 3775: 3740: 3724: 3688: 3658: 3607: 3593: 3580: 3564: 3535: 3483: 3461: 3452: 3430: 3403: 3312: 3278: 3260: 3245: 3226: 3096: 3087: 3077: 3065: 3028: 3019: 3005: 2988: 2977: 2949: 2934: 2892: 2850: 2771: 2682: 2574: 2555: 2539: 2468: 2446: 2405: 2381: 2367: 2358: 2349: 2331: 2308: 2295: 2274: 2257: 2218: 2197: 2173: 2163: 2123: 2113: 2084: 2070: 2023: 1979: 1957: 1939: 1917: 1901: 1874: 1811: 1801: 1791: 1776: 1694: 1654: 1639: 1630: 1597: 1565: 1483: 1469: 1443: 1434: 1397: 1381: 1371: 1328: 1314: 1305: 1223: 1075: 1062: 1038: 1027: 981: 834: 813: 796: 778: 743: 725: 714: 680: 637: 614: 602: 572: 547: 543:, I think it reads better as a title, and we can always spell out the full Australian Football League in the opening paragraph. 527: 510: 498: 463: 445: 421: 391: 379: 363: 351: 324: 302: 288: 276: 262: 249: 224: 211: 191: 171: 3760: 3673: 2667: 2431: 2148: 2008: 1859: 1761: 1582: 1356: 1208: 1012: 1001:. Anyone got any thoughts on possible additions to the ladder? There might actually be a reason for people to view it ahead of 763: 699: 406: 375:- it it the format used in most wikipedia articles and that's how I always type it in from the start, but I dont get a result. 336: 2141:? Would this be too hard to manage since players seem to play any number of positions these days? How would we manage it etc? 4047:

No, I think you misunderstand. There's no need for new templates. I'm proposing that sponsored venue pages be moved to their

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Per the above discussion and aparent consensus on club names and useage in Knowledge, I've added my draft style guide to the

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I'm not sure what we can do to improve it, but I certainly don't think it should continue in its current form on some pages.

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Yeah probably too hard to manage. So many players are used in many different positions for it to be accurate and/or useful.

2095:

item #9, "the use of fair use tagged images is not permitted on templates." As a result, currently there is no club log on

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even "Sydney Swans", and probably the terrible "Kangaroos" for recent seasons, but everything else should be fair game.

2076:

All of these images are most likely derivative works of material that the associated clubs retain rights to. These are

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If you want to keep some decoration you could make some boxes alluding to the guernseys instead of using the logos. --

145: 3933: 3793: 995: 3134: 2048: 1005:'s ladder if we include stuff like "Interstate wins/losses", "Wins under/over 7 pts" "Wins under/over 40 pts" etc. 630: 38: 3844: 2416: 1404:

know who the original lyricist was - from that point of view, they almost take on the attributes of a folk song.

4083: 4012: 3981: 3445: 3441: 3437: 3423: 2647: 2517: 2185: 2181: 1431: 823: 3796:. I'm not really an AFL follower so I'm not sure if it is 100% correct - please take a look at let me know. -- 3789: 2096: 3168: 3996: 3977:

the main article, so that someone searching on those titles will still be able to find the relevant article.

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and thought that a similar quiz on Australian Rules football could be interesting. What do others think? --

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Yeah I see what you are saying now. It just looks convoluted in the middle but I guess that is unavoidable.

3843:

Hmm... I'm getting rendering issues on that one as well, using Firefox 1.5.0.6. I've put a screenshot of it

3154: 936:

It dominates participation (a player must be registered and played minimum six games) and talent nationally;

749: 689: 149: 179:- It might also be a good idea to get votes on whether we should have 'Australian Football League season' ( 3628: 3612:

Agree with JPD, rookie ok, but roster?!! In 40 years of following the game, I have never heard it used.

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True, you'd get players put into a position based on even one game. The guy you are thinking of Nguyen is

2225:

I agree with everyone's thoughts on this. Maybe you could include the major positions like full-forwards (

2080:

free of fair use restrictions here. A number of these have been retagged. More will follow, I'm a sure. --

1572: 3936:

was done to fit in with Chuq's original version, so I was going to change it to fit the current version.

3158: 1681:

Haha yeah that photo is a shocker. I will try to remember my digital camera next time I go to the footy.

822:, in the midst of a farming community. The thing is, having tackled a couple of the small clubs (such as 2292: 2215: 2107: 908:

Look every which way, for it doesn't matter. The AFL is the dominant national sport. Here's a snap shot:

784: 2809: 1635:

Do the same fair use rules apply to these images as to the logo images that were already on Knowledge?

1607:. These are available to replace the logos you have (they are smaller--thus more likely available for 802: 3992: 3884:

Not having all the games from one week in the same column but working from both sides into the middle.

3613: 3495: 3335: 3285: 2689: 2596: 2485: 1829: 1726: 1666: 1505: 1405: 1246: 1230: 1175: 1155: 1117: 1082: 950: 843: 644: 581: 3632: 3367: 3320: 3093: 3074: 3025: 3002: 2985: 2847: 2725: 2623: 2552: 2355: 2305: 2266:

An article/articles is/are the appropriate place to record this type of grouping, not a category. --

2254: 2066: 2037: 1798: 1651: 1475:

Probably rugby league fanatics who can't stand the fact that those states play our game, not theirs.

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Which makes it doubly bad. We need to resist this creeping tide. The other one that gets me is

2650:

so at least the official name of the team is known. However, the categorisation of players under

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Just want to get the word out there about a project which I think complements WikiProject AFL -

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See two talk sections up... I dont think anyone really agrees with it. Remove at will I say.

1690:

Heh. It looks like it's from one of the recent Heritage rounds, hence the old-style jumpers.

486:, but is admittedly inconsistent. I'm sure I've seen this issue referred to specifically in 3929: 3817: 3180: 3124: 3112: 2104: 1301: 254:

Agreed, but we're talking about article titles, not what's in the middle of the article. --

199:- OK it seems reasonably clear that the consensus is to format the articles in the style of 94: 4077:

To answer your question a little more directly, under the approach I suggest, the links in

3108:

pages current squads feature the flags, despite the following overseas born player counts

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article clearly includes the full history of the club, but noone has discussed the issue.

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i think people should also keep an eye out on naming appropriately in eras, eg in calling

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gets around a lot of problems. However, when writing a piece, you can certainly write:

882:

This issue has drawn a lot of attention over the past 9 months or so. In this morning's

3788:

I've created a finals diagram template that can be used on season pages, etc. It is at

1465:

who is "they"? Anyway, a quick squiz at the appropriate articles seems all is in order.

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it is a huge start and we will be able to keep the profiles at least one year in date.

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Does anyone have a good primary source relating to the birth place of the above? See

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With a line disappearing at the top, going to the bottom, as in Chuq's first version,

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article is difficult as well, because some guys keep on getting inserted and removed.

2194: 2143: 2003: 1927: 1913: 1854: 1788: 1756: 1702: 1612: 1577: 1549: 1351: 1269: 1203: 1145: 1007: 978: 758: 694: 524: 495: 487: 401: 388: 376: 331: 259: 4060: 4056: 3519: 3471: 3214: 3105: 2226: 1608: 1292: 456: 240: 203:. I'll rename the existing articles and make some sort of navigation template like 3001:

when talking about the 1940's, eg in List of Australian Football League premiers.

818:

Osborne, the "town" is basically a football oval and a grain silo in the southern

3061:

instance Freo has often heralded as being the most Aboriginal club in the AFL. --

739:

is somewhere trains don't stop, a closed school, and not much else these days. --

519:

after reconsidering arguments, but would defer to MOS if a reference located. --

3867: 3848: 3808: 3571:

I agree - it sounds totally foreign to me, but it was created by an Australian!

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

633:) or by putting a redirect at the club article pointing to the town article? -- 284:- consistency across Knowledge is a good thing. Makes it easier to search too. 4052: 2081: 1898: 1749:

The only summary that exists of a season's notable events, amazingly, is the

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Yeah I'm all for it as well. Are we looking at statistics-minded questions?

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As per I@n. Especially that allrounders category is annoying. And then the

1349:

but needs 2 more votes by tomorrow to stay in contention. Vote now, quick!

1320:

Great Idea! And since i was bored, I've made them and they can be found at

1264:

should be subcategories, as the things they contain are not competitions.

971:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of nicknames used in Australian rules

187:) in the article name, so feel free to add votes for that option as well. 4093: 3937: 3915: 3891: 3821: 3732: 3655: 3599: 3590: 3572: 3561: 3527: 3510: 3475: 3458: 3427: 3395: 3385: 3309: 3275: 3237: 2941: 2884: 2813: 2763: 2588: 2531: 2461: 2398: 2342: 2267: 2250: 2190: 1909: 1500: 1265: 1141: 974: 819: 520: 491: 255: 3816:

I don't have any display issues with it, but I do prefer something like

801:

Is Osborne football club the last remnant of a former town/locality of

3857:

certain game, and the loser of the match goes to a different game. --

2420: 1430:

with Peta; it's much safer to exclude the full lyrics of club songs. --

1002: 4011:"Docklands Stadium" and the Sydney venue as "the Olympic Stadium".-- 437:. As far as I know there is no conflict, as I have already made the 232:

Per Remy B. Also in the middle of an article, it sounds better. Eg.

1849: 1539: 559:. It would seem to fit more into Knowledge standards in my books. 2846:

scoreboards, and so should be used the same on wikipedia i think.

1705:(even if I'm not sure that it legally should be on the site) -- 918:

It generates more than double the income of any competing code;

3308:

Whoops, I had't spotted that thread. Thanks, and I have. --

2047:

These icons represent the main/home jumpers of each of the 16

2001:

next few weeks - hopefully everyone else can chip in as well.

88: 25: 3265:

The current squad section of just about every team page (eg.

3050:

people, with the odd Irishman, Brazillian and New Zealander.

1740:

I'd love to see some history of the seasons in the articles.

3560:. Why not say playing lists or squads? Is it just me? -- 629:

be cured by replacing them with piped links to the town (as

3448:

as that is the correct capitalisation of the article name.

942:

Print coverage nationally doubles exposure of other sports;

891:

Vigorous administration will chase its vision at rapid pace

625:

Should red links to small country footy clubs (for example

2688:

should simply always use it - where we find it, fix it.

2304:(who kicked 5 goals for Adelaide in the 97 Grand Final). 1880:

Images and copyright problems. Something needs to be done

610:. Just looks cleaner than any of the other alternatives. 3589:, but I suspect that that may be too entrenched now. -- 1069:

it is the biggest winter spectator sport in the country

886:

newspaper, Patrick Smith, a regular columnist, writes:

484:

Category:International_cricket_competitions_in_2005-06

3627:

Totally agree. I removed the roster terminology from

2133:

What are everyone's thoughts on having a category of

3470:

that having a separate article is pointless, as the

3377:

List of Indigenous Australian rules football players

18:

Knowledge talk:WikiProject Australian rules football

2363:

Any type of football related question would do. --

3149:(1 - Ireland - former Gaelic Footballer just like 3558:Category:Australian rules football player rosters 2397:. I hope my opening question isn't too hard! -- 2180:Don't do it. In cricket, we had categories like 2135:Category:Australian rules footballers by position 1520:I assume this is the latter article you refer to 671:I've changed nine links to country town clubs in 3631:a while back and replaced it with playing list. 3444:. I'm going to indicate that we should be using 1611:purposes). It's all yours to decide. Thanks! 1377:I voted but it seems noone else has bothered :( 939:It leads sporting industry in brand recognition; 915:The league draws the largest weekly TV audience; 1196:Category:Australian rules football competitions 312:- When using the go/search bar, I don't put in 490:but for the life of me cannot find it now. -- 2595:- thereby you have the best of both worlds. 991:I've moved the 2006 ladder at this location: 441:article as a redirect a couple of weeks ago. 159:Which format do you prefer - the year at the 128:The 2006 season article was originally named 8: 3373:Indigenous Australian rules football players 205:Template:Australia at the Commonwealth Games 3217:(1 - South Africa - does not represent RSA) 1895:This has probably been done before though. 1154:I now support Peta's and JPD's suggestion. 857:Yeah, that's probably the way to go, then. 480:Category:International cricket competitions 238:they performed well in the AFL season 2006. 234:They performed well in the 2006 AFL season, 154:Category:Australian Football League seasons 2657:Category:Collingwood Football Club coaches 3041:Aboriginal flag/State flags on club pages 272:... same reasons as Remy B and DaGizza. 113:Knowledge talk:WikiProject AFL/Archive 1 2419:article - one of the biggest events in 1067:Maybe just something short like saying 298:- have redirects for the other option. 3881:With lines crossing, as in my version, 3380:being used as a quick and easy way of 539:mainly for consistency, I also prefer 435:2006 Australian Football League season 329:that can be solved with a redirect... 207:to put at the bottom of the articles. 134:2006 Australian Football League season 130:Australian Football League season 2006 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2415:I think we should get to work on the 2044:page (but not in the article space). 721:then it shouldnt have a link at all. 685:How about having the links like so: " 455:for all of the reasons stated above. 7: 2652:Category:Collingwood Magpies players 2139:Category:VFL/AFL players by position 933:It leads sport in total TV audience; 878:Popularity of Aussie rules revisited 478:season articles seem to be end (see 124:AFL season article naming convention 3745:That's when we get to the point of 3468:Talk:South Melbourne Football Club 2546:Club names in results and ladders. 2387:AFL quiz is now open for business! 2325:Knowledge:WikiProject Cricket/Quiz 1538:The wikipedia foundation, through 927:It has the richest broadcast deal; 924:It has the highest total audience; 748:Alright then, we'll just redirect 580:and redirects across the board. 24: 3792:. Example usage can be found on 3058:List of overseas-born AFL players 2591:was a great player and coach for 2474:Australian National football team 1291:of a table or list). Please read 969:Participants may wish to vote at 116:(1 November 2005 - 7 April 2006) 1826:Australian Football Hall of Fame 1343:Australian Football Hall of Fame 921:It is the most affordable sport; 621:Red links to small country clubs 220:. For the reasons I gave above. 93: 29: 3934:Template talk:AFL finals system 3794:Template talk:AFL finals system 3127:(1 PNG - same claim to flag as 2339:(I setup the cricket quiz BTW!) 1953:you wanted professional shots. 1701:Of course there's the photo of 429:. That is true, I would prefer 3364:Indigenous Team of the Century 3013:Knowledge talk:WikiProject AFL 2808:). I've drafted something at 2394:Knowledge:WikiProject AFL/Quiz 2241:etc) or even separate it into 1456:Tasmania and Western Australia 1347:Collaboration of the Fortnight 828:English football league system 387:- Same reasons as Anubis1975. 1: 3524:South Melbourne Football Club 2806:Knowledge:WikiProject Cricket 1461:stastistic, but we have too. 1116:and the aussie noticeboard. 930:It has the biggest following; 807:Shire of Mornington Peninsula 673:Golden Rivers Football League 3980:What are others' thoughts?-- 3650:Its now listed for renaming 3267:Brisbane_Lions#Current_squad 2655:categories for coaches like 2524:) 09:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC) 2417:1996 Fitzroy-Brisbane merger 1479:Give it a rest, Sliat 1981. 4102:09:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 4087:06:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 4016:06:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC) 3776:10:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC) 3187:St George Illawarra Dragons 2186:category:Australian bowlers 2182:category:Australian batsmen 2124:05:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 2114:22:56, 14 August 2006 (UTC) 2093:Knowledge:Fair use criteria 146:2006 English cricket season 4122: 4043:08:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC) 4002:07:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC) 3985:07:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC) 3968:Venues with sponsors names 3946:14:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC) 3924:12:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC) 3910:12:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC) 3900:10:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC) 3871:08:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC) 3862:06:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC) 3852:05:32, 6 August 2006 (UTC) 3839:02:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC) 3830:17:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC) 3812:15:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC) 3801:15:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC) 3790:Template:AFL finals system 3741:14:52, 5 August 2006 (UTC) 3725:08:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC) 3689:02:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC) 3659:09:44, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3636:08:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3623:06:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3608:16:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3594:16:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3581:16:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3565:16:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3404:09:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3389:09:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3345:06:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3329:02:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3313:08:47, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3304:08:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3295:05:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3279:05:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC) 3271:20px|Indigenous Australian 3227:05:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 3135:Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles 3121:(2 = 1 Samoan, 1 Lebanese) 3066:05:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC) 2984:"offending" style in use. 2097:Template User Sydney Swans 2091:Apparently under terms of 2085:14:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC) 2049:Australian Football League 1039:05:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 1028:03:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 982:00:52, 27 April 2006 (UTC) 960:22:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC) 779:03:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 744:15:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC) 726:11:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC) 715:11:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC) 681:14:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC) 664:14:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC) 654:13:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC) 638:13:12, 22 April 2006 (UTC) 615:03:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC) 603:02:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC) 591:12:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 573:09:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 548:07:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 528:13:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 511:06:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 499:05:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 474:As a far as cricket goes, 464:05:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 446:06:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 422:04:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 392:00:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 380:22:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 364:06:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 352:04:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 325:22:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 303:04:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 289:21:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 277:13:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 263:05:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 250:13:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 225:12:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 212:08:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC) 192:13:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC) 172:12:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 3666:consensus on the name :) 3536:12:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC) 3514:12:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC) 3505:00:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC) 3484:19:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC) 3462:14:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC) 3453:11:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC) 3446:Australian rules football 3442:Australian rules football 3440:, which is a redirect to 3438:Australian Rules Football 3431:03:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC) 3261:13:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC) 3246:15:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC) 3097:23:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC) 3088:14:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC) 3078:09:49, 28 July 2006 (UTC) 3029:23:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC) 3020:11:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC) 3006:10:29, 22 July 2006 (UTC) 2989:10:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC) 2978:13:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2950:13:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2935:13:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2893:13:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2851:11:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2817:11:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2800:Can I suggest adopting a 2772:11:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2729:10:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2699:10:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2683:10:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2648:Collingwood Football Club 2627:10:08, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2606:02:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2575:01:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2556:01:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 2540:10:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC) 2495:07:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC) 2447:12:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC) 2406:13:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC) 2382:11:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC) 2368:12:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2359:02:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2350:01:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2332:09:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC) 2309:03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2296:02:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2275:02:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2258:02:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2219:02:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2198:02:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC) 2174:04:57, 18 June 2006 (UTC) 2164:04:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC) 2071:00:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC) 2024:03:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC) 1980:02:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC) 1958:20:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC) 1940:13:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC) 1918:13:13, 13 June 2006 (UTC) 1902:13:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC) 1820:Collaboration of the week 824:Walla Walla Football Club 598:You know it makes sense-- 132:, before I renamed it to 3169:North Queensland Cowboys 2469:14:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC) 2189:totally unambiguous. -- 1875:10:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC) 1839:23:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC) 1812:09:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC) 1802:07:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC) 1792:06:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC) 1777:10:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC) 1745:08:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC) 1736:01:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC) 1710:14:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC) 1695:13:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC) 1686:13:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC) 1676:10:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC) 1655:06:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC) 1640:16:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC) 1631:15:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC) 1598:12:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC) 1566:14:15, 17 May 2006 (UTC) 1528:06:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC) 1515:04:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC) 1484:11:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC) 1470:10:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC) 1444:09:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC) 1435:00:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC) 1425:02:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC) 1415:02:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC) 1398:02:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC) 1382:23:50, 14 May 2006 (UTC) 1372:14:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC) 1329:07:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC) 1315:01:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC) 1185:03:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC) 862:10:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC) 853:09:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC) 835:10:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC) 814:11:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC) 797:14:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC) 1605:2006 Official AFL Logos 1306:10:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 1274:09:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 1256:07:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 1240:07:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 1224:07:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 1165:22:24, 6 May 2006 (UTC) 1150:15:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC) 1127:10:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC) 1092:12:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC) 1076:12:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC) 1063:12:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC) 750:Dandenong Football Club 631:Moulamein Football Club 627:Moulamein Football Club 150:2006 Commonwealth Games 3197:South Sydney Rabbitohs 3189:(1 - Fiji - just like 3056:Now look at this page 2804:(similar to what's in 996:2006 AFL season/Ladder 2512:comment was added by 2323:I'm a participant in 1824:Just a reminder that 785:Osborne Football Club 42:of past discussions. 4084:The Brain of Morbius 4036:links to the article 4034:, the named used in 4013:The Brain of Morbius 3998:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 3982:The Brain of Morbius 3619:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 3501:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 3368:Aboriginal All-Stars 3341:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 3321:Aboriginal All-Stars 3291:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 3205:(2 England, 1 Tonga) 2695:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 2602:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 2491:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1835:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1732:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1672:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1573:AFLVideo controversy 1511:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1432:The Brain of Morbius 1411:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1252:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1236:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1181:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1161:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1123:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 1088:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 965:Article for deletion 956:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 849:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 650:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 587:(waarom? jus'b'coz!) 3119:Canterbury Bulldogs 2644:Collingwood Magpies 2585:Collingwood Magpies 2129:Players by position 1889:written consent.". 754:Dandenong, Victoria 183:) or 'AFL season' ( 3567:(grumpy old man!) 3457:Totally agree. -- 2501:Idea to get photos 949:flares up again. 142:2004-05 NBA season 3999: 3620: 3502: 3384:the articles. -- 3342: 3292: 3209:Gold Coast Titans 3155:Setanta Ó hAilpín 3147:Newcastle Knights 2810:User:I@n/Sandbox2 2696: 2603: 2525: 2492: 2377:Haha, AFL sucks. 2340: 1836: 1733: 1673: 1512: 1490:The Age of reason 1412: 1253: 1237: 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3679: 3674: 3669: 3554: 3420: 3203:Sydney Roosters 3175:Parramatta Eels 3141:Melbourne Storm 3094:Blackmissionary 3043: 3026:Blackmissionary 3003:Blackmissionary 2986:Blackmissionary 2848:Blackmissionary 2726:Blackmissionary 2673: 2668: 2663: 2624:Blackmissionary 2620:1917 VFL season 2569: 2563: 2553:Blackmissionary 2548: 2514:144.139.223.135 2508:—The preceding 2503: 2476: 2454: 2437: 2432: 2427: 2413: 2391:The quiz is at 2389: 2356:TheRealAntonius 2321: 2306:TheRealAntonius 2255:TheRealAntonius 2154: 2149: 2144: 2131: 2014: 2009: 2004: 1934: 1928: 1882: 1865: 1860: 1855: 1846: 1822: 1799:Blackmissionary 1767: 1762: 1757: 1751:1900 VFL season 1718: 1662: 1629: 1618: 1588: 1583: 1578: 1563: 1555: 1546: 1536: 1492: 1458: 1390: 1379:TheRealAntonius 1362: 1357: 1352: 1339: 1296: 1284: 1214: 1209: 1204: 1199: 1047: 1018: 1013: 1008: 998: 992: 989: 967: 880: 769: 764: 759: 705: 700: 695: 623: 561: 557:2006 AFL Season 541:2006 AFL Season 439:2006 AFL season 431:2006 AFL season 412: 407: 402: 342: 337: 332: 201:2006 AFL season 138:2006 NFL season 126: 102: 64: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4119: 4117: 4109: 4108: 4107: 4106: 4105: 4104: 4075: 4072: 4068: 4055:would move to 4020: 4019: 4018: 4008: 3969: 3966: 3965: 3964: 3963: 3962: 3961: 3960: 3959: 3958: 3957: 3956: 3955: 3954: 3953: 3952: 3951: 3950: 3949: 3948: 3926: 3887: 3886: 3885: 3882: 3879: 3785: 3782: 3781: 3780: 3779: 3778: 3696: 3693: 3692: 3691: 3662: 3661: 3647: 3646: 3645: 3644: 3643: 3642: 3641: 3640: 3639: 3638: 3553: 3550: 3549: 3548: 3547: 3546: 3545: 3544: 3543: 3542: 3541: 3540: 3539: 3538: 3419: 3416: 3415: 3414: 3413: 3412: 3411: 3410: 3409: 3408: 3407: 3406: 3370:, and maybe a 3352: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3348: 3347: 3317: 3316: 3315: 3253: 3252: 3251: 3250: 3249: 3248: 3219: 3218: 3212: 3206: 3200: 3194: 3184: 3178: 3172: 3166: 3151:Tadhg Kennelly 3144: 3138: 3132: 3122: 3116: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3099: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3042: 3039: 3038: 3037: 3036: 3035: 3034: 3033: 3032: 3031: 2971: 2970: 2969: 2968: 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838: 837: 789:Adam Schneider 729: 728: 669: 668: 667: 666: 622: 619: 618: 617: 605: 593: 575: 550: 534: 533: 532: 531: 530: 466: 450: 449: 448: 394: 382: 370: 369: 368: 367: 366: 306: 305: 292: 291: 279: 267: 266: 265: 227: 125: 122: 119: 118: 115: 108: 107: 104: 103: 98: 92: 85: 84: 79: 74: 69: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4118: 4103: 4099: 4095: 4090: 4089: 4088: 4085: 4080: 4076: 4073: 4069: 4066: 4065:Football Park 4062: 4058: 4054: 4050: 4046: 4045: 4044: 4041: 4037: 4033: 4029: 4025: 4021: 4017: 4014: 4009: 4005: 4004: 4003: 4000: 3994: 3989: 3988: 3987: 3986: 3983: 3978: 3974: 3967: 3947: 3943: 3939: 3935: 3931: 3927: 3925: 3921: 3917: 3913: 3912: 3911: 3908: 3903: 3902: 3901: 3897: 3893: 3888: 3883: 3880: 3877: 3876: 3874: 3873: 3872: 3869: 3865: 3864: 3863: 3860: 3855: 3854: 3853: 3850: 3846: 3842: 3841: 3840: 3837: 3833: 3832: 3831: 3827: 3823: 3819: 3815: 3814: 3813: 3810: 3805: 3804: 3803: 3802: 3799: 3795: 3791: 3783: 3777: 3774: 3773: 3770: 3769: 3764: 3759: 3752: 3751:Peter R. Bell 3748: 3747:Peter F. Bell 3744: 3743: 3742: 3738: 3734: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3726: 3723: 3721: 3720: 3715: 3710: 3705: 3694: 3690: 3687: 3686: 3683: 3682: 3677: 3672: 3664: 3663: 3660: 3657: 3653: 3649: 3648: 3637: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3625: 3624: 3621: 3615: 3611: 3610: 3609: 3605: 3601: 3597: 3596: 3595: 3592: 3588: 3584: 3583: 3582: 3578: 3574: 3570: 3569: 3568: 3566: 3563: 3559: 3551: 3537: 3533: 3529: 3525: 3521: 3517: 3516: 3515: 3512: 3508: 3507: 3506: 3503: 3497: 3492: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3481: 3477: 3473: 3469: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3460: 3456: 3455: 3454: 3451: 3447: 3443: 3439: 3435: 3434: 3433: 3432: 3429: 3425: 3417: 3405: 3401: 3397: 3392: 3391: 3390: 3387: 3383: 3378: 3375: 3374: 3369: 3365: 3360: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3346: 3343: 3337: 3332: 3331: 3330: 3327: 3322: 3318: 3314: 3311: 3307: 3306: 3305: 3302: 3298: 3297: 3296: 3293: 3287: 3283: 3282: 3281: 3280: 3277: 3272: 3268: 3263: 3262: 3259: 3247: 3243: 3239: 3235: 3234: 3233: 3232: 3231: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3225: 3216: 3213: 3210: 3207: 3204: 3201: 3198: 3195: 3192: 3188: 3185: 3182: 3179: 3176: 3173: 3170: 3167: 3164: 3160: 3156: 3152: 3148: 3145: 3142: 3139: 3136: 3133: 3130: 3126: 3123: 3120: 3117: 3114: 3111: 3110: 3109: 3107: 3098: 3095: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3086: 3082: 3081: 3080: 3079: 3076: 3067: 3064: 3059: 3055: 3054: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3047: 3040: 3030: 3027: 3023: 3022: 3021: 3018: 3014: 3009: 3008: 3007: 3004: 3000: 2996: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2987: 2982: 2981: 2980: 2979: 2976: 2951: 2947: 2943: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2933: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2894: 2890: 2886: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2868: 2867: 2852: 2849: 2844: 2843: 2842: 2841: 2840: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2818: 2815: 2811: 2807: 2803: 2799: 2798: 2797: 2796: 2795: 2794: 2793: 2792: 2791: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2773: 2769: 2765: 2761: 2756: 2755: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2744: 2743: 2730: 2727: 2722: 2721: 2720: 2719: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2715: 2714: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2700: 2697: 2691: 2686: 2685: 2684: 2681: 2680: 2677: 2676: 2671: 2666: 2658: 2653: 2649: 2646:redirects to 2645: 2642: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2636: 2635: 2628: 2625: 2621: 2617: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2612: 2607: 2604: 2598: 2594: 2590: 2586: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2576: 2573: 2572: 2566: 2560: 2559: 2558: 2557: 2554: 2545: 2541: 2537: 2533: 2528: 2527: 2526: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2500: 2496: 2493: 2487: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2473: 2471: 2470: 2467: 2463: 2459: 2451: 2449: 2448: 2445: 2444: 2441: 2440: 2435: 2430: 2422: 2418: 2410: 2408: 2407: 2404: 2400: 2396: 2395: 2386: 2384: 2383: 2380: 2379:JRA WestyQld2 2369: 2366: 2362: 2361: 2360: 2357: 2353: 2352: 2351: 2348: 2344: 2336: 2335: 2334: 2333: 2330: 2326: 2319:Football Quiz 2318: 2310: 2307: 2303: 2299: 2298: 2297: 2294: 2290: 2289: 2284: 2283: 2282: 2281: 2276: 2273: 2269: 2265: 2264: 2263: 2262: 2259: 2256: 2252: 2248: 2244: 2240: 2236: 2232: 2228: 2224: 2223: 2220: 2217: 2213: 2212: 2207: 2203: 2202: 2199: 2196: 2192: 2187: 2183: 2179: 2178: 2175: 2172: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2165: 2162: 2161: 2158: 2157: 2152: 2147: 2140: 2136: 2128: 2126: 2125: 2122: 2116: 2115: 2112: 2109: 2106: 2102: 2098: 2094: 2086: 2083: 2079: 2075: 2074: 2073: 2072: 2068: 2064: 2063: 2057: 2055: 2050: 2045: 2043: 2039: 2025: 2022: 2021: 2018: 2017: 2012: 2007: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1996: 1995: 1994: 1993: 1992: 1991: 1990: 1981: 1978: 1973: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1967: 1966: 1959: 1956: 1951: 1950: 1949: 1948: 1947: 1946: 1941: 1938: 1937: 1931: 1925: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1919: 1915: 1911: 1906: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1900: 1896: 1893: 1890: 1886: 1879: 1877: 1876: 1873: 1872: 1869: 1868: 1863: 1858: 1851: 1843: 1841: 1840: 1837: 1831: 1827: 1819: 1813: 1810: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1800: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1793: 1790: 1778: 1775: 1774: 1771: 1770: 1765: 1760: 1752: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1743: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1734: 1728: 1724: 1723: 1722: 1715: 1711: 1708: 1704: 1703:Russell Ebert 1700: 1696: 1693: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1684: 1680: 1679: 1678: 1677: 1674: 1668: 1659: 1657: 1656: 1653: 1641: 1638: 1634: 1633: 1632: 1628: 1627: 1622: 1617: 1615: 1610: 1606: 1601: 1600: 1599: 1596: 1595: 1592: 1591: 1586: 1581: 1574: 1570: 1569: 1568: 1567: 1564: 1562: 1554: 1552: 1543: 1541: 1534:Use of Logos. 1533: 1529: 1526: 1522: 1519: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1513: 1507: 1502: 1496: 1489: 1485: 1482: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1471: 1468: 1464: 1463: 1462: 1455: 1445: 1442: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1433: 1428: 1427: 1426: 1423: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1413: 1407: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1399: 1396: 1387: 1383: 1380: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1373: 1370: 1369: 1366: 1365: 1360: 1355: 1348: 1344: 1337: 1334: 1330: 1327: 1323: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1313: 1308: 1307: 1303: 1299: 1294: 1290: 1281: 1275: 1271: 1267: 1263: 1259: 1257: 1254: 1248: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1238: 1232: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1222: 1221: 1218: 1217: 1212: 1207: 1197: 1194: 1186: 1183: 1177: 1173: 1168: 1167: 1166: 1163: 1157: 1153: 1152: 1151: 1147: 1143: 1138: 1137: 1128: 1125: 1119: 1115: 1110: 1109: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1093: 1090: 1084: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1061: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1052: 1044: 1040: 1037: 1032: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1026: 1025: 1022: 1021: 1016: 1011: 1004: 997: 986: 984: 983: 980: 976: 972: 964: 962: 961: 958: 952: 941: 938: 935: 932: 929: 926: 923: 920: 917: 914: 913: 912: 911: 907: 903: 900: 898:Patrick Smith 897: 894: 892: 889: 888: 887: 885: 877: 863: 860: 856: 855: 854: 851: 845: 840: 836: 833: 829: 825: 821: 817: 816: 815: 812: 808: 804: 800: 799: 798: 795: 790: 786: 782: 781: 780: 777: 776: 773: 772: 767: 762: 755: 751: 747: 746: 745: 742: 738: 733: 732: 731: 730: 727: 724: 719: 718: 717: 716: 713: 712: 709: 708: 703: 698: 691: 690:Football Club 688: 683: 682: 679: 674: 665: 662: 657: 656: 655: 652: 646: 642: 641: 640: 639: 636: 632: 628: 620: 616: 613: 609: 606: 604: 601: 597: 594: 592: 589: 583: 579: 576: 574: 571: 569: 567: 566: 558: 554: 551: 549: 546: 542: 538: 535: 529: 526: 522: 518: 514: 513: 512: 509: 505: 502: 501: 500: 497: 493: 489: 485: 481: 477: 473: 472:, per Anubis. 471: 467: 465: 462: 458: 454: 451: 447: 444: 440: 436: 432: 428: 425: 424: 423: 420: 419: 416: 415: 410: 405: 398: 395: 393: 390: 386: 383: 381: 378: 374: 371: 365: 362: 358: 355: 354: 353: 350: 349: 346: 345: 340: 335: 328: 327: 326: 323: 319: 315: 311: 308: 307: 304: 301: 297: 294: 293: 290: 287: 283: 280: 278: 275: 271: 268: 264: 261: 257: 253: 252: 251: 248: 247: 244: 243: 239: 235: 231: 228: 226: 223: 219: 216: 215: 214: 213: 210: 206: 202: 198: 194: 193: 190: 186: 182: 178: 174: 173: 170: 166: 162: 157: 155: 151: 147: 143: 139: 135: 131: 123: 117: 114: 110: 109: 106: 105: 101: 96: 91: 90: 83: 80: 78: 75: 73: 70: 67: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 4061:AAMI Stadium 4057:Princes Park 4048: 4035: 4032:article name 4031: 3979: 3975: 3971: 3787: 3771: 3754: 3722: 3700: 3698: 3684: 3667: 3586: 3555: 3552:Americanisms 3520:Sydney Swans 3490: 3472:Sydney Swans 3424:project page 3421: 3382:prettying up 3381: 3371: 3264: 3254: 3220: 3215:Wests Tigers 3106:rugby league 3103: 3072: 3048: 3044: 2998: 2995:Princes Park 2994: 2972: 2801: 2759: 2678: 2661: 2567: 2549: 2504: 2477: 2455: 2442: 2425: 2414: 2392: 2390: 2376: 2322: 2286: 2209: 2159: 2142: 2132: 2121:ThirdEdition 2117: 2101:image itself 2100: 2089: 2077: 2060: 2058: 2053: 2046: 2041: 2036: 2019: 2002: 1932: 1897: 1894: 1891: 1887: 1883: 1870: 1853: 1847: 1823: 1785: 1772: 1755: 1719: 1663: 1648: 1624: 1621: 1613: 1593: 1576: 1558: 1550: 1547: 1537: 1525:ThirdEdition 1497: 1493: 1474: 1459: 1391: 1367: 1350: 1340: 1312:ThirdEdition 1309: 1288: 1285: 1261: 1219: 1202: 1200: 1170: 1100: 1068: 1048: 1023: 1006: 990: 968: 947: 890: 883: 881: 774: 757: 710: 693: 684: 670: 624: 608:Start, Short 607: 595: 577: 570: 564: 562: 552: 536: 516: 503: 475: 469: 468: 452: 426: 417: 400: 396: 384: 372: 356: 347: 330: 317: 313: 309: 300:The El Reyko 295: 286:The El Reyko 281: 269: 245: 241: 237: 236:rather than 233: 229: 218:start, short 217: 196: 195: 184: 180: 176: 175: 164: 160: 158: 127: 111: 99: 65: 43: 37: 3695:Disam pages 3556:I just saw 3418:Style guide 3211:(1 England) 3191:David Rodan 3163:Colm Begley 3143:(1 - Tonga) 3137:(1 - Tonga) 3129:Mal Michael 2802:style guide 2593:Collingwood 2302:Shane Ellen 2243:Midfielders 2206:All-rounder 1850:Footy Wikia 1844:Footy Wikia 1420:included.-- 1071:might help. 987:2006 Ladder 811:Scott Davis 741:Scott Davis 678:Scott Davis 635:Scott Davis 515:Changed to 316:, I put in 36:This is an 4053:Optus Oval 4051:names. 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Knowledge

talk:WikiProject Australian rules football/Archive 2 - Knowledge

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