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1248:. Flag use has show itself to be very controversial and problematic in wikipedia and the benefit are very small. I myself also think it looks unprofessional and ugly. If the only benefit is that it is easier to identify the country that the template relates to, that is not very big. A reader will probably find this information in the article and if not he can click on a link to find more details. I don't see good enough reason too go against
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1067:(in good faith) soon again just because they seem to be missing out. The leagues that have a strange name could use some clarification in the title, like the name(s) of the country they correspond to - if it is clear they do. That can be added to most of the league navboxes. The Irish and Austrian leagues will probably be
932:. The Belfast team has only existed for one year of the long history of the IIHL and the IIHA. such a small blip on the timeline of the league's history does not make a strong bond nor make the league identifiable with Northen Ireland. The use of the Flag of the Republic of Ireland is appropriate. The is similar to the
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where the title of the navbox is simly "SM-liiga" — a flag obviously helps in those cases. The Irish one I mentioned above is not simply a national league, it's an international league as there are teams in the
Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland but only the Republic of Ireland's flag is shown.
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I have much more trouble with leagues in North
America (besides NHL of course, that one is clearly Canada plus USA). Unless they are named "America" something och "Canada" something, I would have to resort to sub-national geography like "Ontario" and "Saskatchewan". That might work for some leagues,
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navbox before noticing that flags had been added to other league navboxes. Djsasso returned it stating "helps the user understand the template is related to britain". Would that be above and beyond the word "British" then? ;) If the title of the navbox doesn't include the country's name then I could
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Your all losing focus of the fact that this problem is easily solved by removing the flags and just using the official league name , if the league is called the
Austrian Hockey League and includes teams from other countries well its to the league to change the name , All I hear is keep flag with no
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is a guideline not a policy. Having the flag helps the readers understand quicker than just the word. This case is no different than the millions of infoboxes we already use that have flags next to the nationality of the player. Those aren't considered decoration so why would this be any different.
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instead (or not, making it slower to read, but perhaps faster to load). They might serve a purpose here, since it is a long list of templates. I think removing just the flags where their meaning dont exactly match the league (Irish, Austrian) would probably lead to them being added by someone else
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To me, flags help the navigation of a list. This is about a box, and with only one flag it might not be helpful in the same way. Since I am
European, I easily recognize the nationality of the leagues whose boxes are named "Russian", "Czech", "Austrian" and even "Deutsche". The other ones have
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On the other hand, by putting flags on sub-national leagues might make them look nation-wide even when they are not. I don't know what to do with those. There are sub-national divisions below the two
Swedish leagues too, but on the Swedish language Knowledge (XXG) they share
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User says BC never heard of that a clicks link getting a wealth of info , we are really getting off topic here .The way i see it the best option is to remove flags from ] failing that just remove the ones which have more than 1 flag or cover more than one country
343:. Personally I prefer to see it even in your Ireland example. The league is primarily Irish even if it does have a team in Northen Ireland. If it were more like the NHL where a greater percentage were in both countries then it would be different. --
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but it requires some extra concentration or even info-browsing. Still, there are leagues named "Western", "Central", "East" and so on. I have no idea in which direction I should travel to find those, besides the North
America clue.
994:, and maybe that league is open to teams from even more countries (seems the Hungarian team was recently relegated, if I'm not mistaken). I'm not sure which european leagues are open to other countries and which are closed. --
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And said user clicks the link and see awe BC is a part of Canada i didn't know that ,i'll open the BC article in a new tab and before you say it adding the flag wouldn't help as the same user could say what flag it that
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Flags for the sake of Flags, is when there is no purpose to having the flag. However, in these cases the flags are helping to distinguish the country the league is in, which serves a purpose and is not a violation of
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I don't mind the flags, and in case of SM-liiga it makes much sense to use a flag. But one thing that came to my mind; Why does SM-liiga use it's native name while
Elitserien's navbox say Swedish Elite League?
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familiar traits too, but that is probably because I'm from
Northen Europe. "Nationalliga" is probably the least familiar case, unless viewed next to the other German-speaking leagues (Austrian, Deutsche).
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guideline since the templates were created in this fashion. Actually, I dont mind if all the league templates had their flags removed (but I wont be doing it myself). Maybe flags could be added to this
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Owe i give up , if you cant see that the these flags here are ridiculous(ie 3 flags on one box) and controversial(ie Irish flag on NI team) flag then enjoy your pretty flags, i suggest you join
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Yes I know it's only a guideline, which I why I started this discussion to try to get a consensus. I'm not sure how a flag helps identify a country easier than its name, afterall this is the
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see the argument for including them. However, if the title of the navbox does include the country's name then I don't think we should include a flag as I believe that's purely decorative.
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Is there any reason why hockey teams don't have roster nav boxes - similar to pretty much every other sport? Is it because rosters change too frequently? Is this a deliberate decision?
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has three flags, as it is not identified with one country alone. It is associated with Japan, South Korea and China. Its predecessor league however, was strongly associated with Japan.
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While flag icons and similar images can be useful in
Knowledge (XXG) articles in some circumstances, there are also problems associated with their misapplication and overuse.
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You are losing focus on the fact that the IIHL has strong ties to the
Republic of Ireland, not the Island of Ireland. The Irish Ice Hockey League was founded in the
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reason why these should be , with strange ideas being thrown out , and mutli-flagged templates that look ridiculous all for the sake of decorating.Once again
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Northern Ireland has no flag (other then the Union Jack), the Ulster Banner usage as NI's flag, ended in 1973. There's been alot of disputing over this at
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Actually, that's not the case on 'sports' articles (my mistake). Anyways, glad to see those flags being removed from the NHL team infoboxes.
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it will show a popup/hover explanation by pointing at it. The Ulster Banner and the ROI flag are both used in sports articles, for example
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There are several leagues which involve teams from more than one country, however the league itself is only identified with one country.
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User says, wonder what flag that is, and then moves the mousepointer to it, and is informed without needing to open a second article. --
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Clearly having Irish flag for a UK team and a UK flag for a team which as banned flags is flags for the sake of flags and its against
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status quo of ignoring a official guild line and ridiculous and controversial flag usage all for the sake of look at the pretty flags?
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having a long history in Austria, and recently adding teams in Hungary and Slovenia, the league is clearly identified with Austria.
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Except that the word Ireland isn't in the title of this template, nor should it be since its not part of the name of the league. -
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distinguishes just fine without the need for flag,Tell me this what do these flags add in terms of information that worlds don't
895:. Can the UB not be used on ROI-related articles while the ROI flag is fine to use on NI-related articles? Is that the issue? --
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flags shouldn't be used unnecessarily and they should "help the user not decorate". Because of that I removed the flag from the
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Using the Ulster Banner on Republic of Ireland related articles are you lot mad? Why do you have to have flags so badly ,also
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The point was though that we are using the Ireland flag for the league when the league has one team in Northern Ireland. --
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Are you saying that the ROI tricolour is less ambiguous than a link to the island of Ireland which Irish is used by both
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is the Latvian flag? Not many I'd guess. For the record, I don't have an issue with flags being used on navboxes such as
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Yes, because the standard is to link by the League name and not by the piece of land that the league is on, so using
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Again its your pov that its only to look at the pretty flags. I think it provides alot of use being there. -
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Except Irish is ambiguous and could refer to two different sets of people, Northern Irish or Irish. -
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Another problem which may occur is on leagues which are cross-border. For example the navbox for the
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In this case, the "Irish" refers to the league being based in the , rather than the island of
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Secondly I believe he was just adding them to national nav boxes and not league nav boxes. -
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Didn't realize he was adding it on every league box, just on the national ones like
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I was just about to add that the second option would also mean we should change
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I'm not sure they work. A reader somewhat unfamiliar with geography could ask,
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In which part of Britain do we find the British Columbia Hockey League?
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how come all the others work with out flags , yet 20 must have flags?
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problem solved, plus the word Irish in the title maybe a giveaway .
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Of course I'm open to argument and will go with the consensus. --
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676:, and sure ] is fine as it has the location in the name see .
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The way I see it, status quo is currently the best option. -
928:. The IIHA and the IIHL have strong historical ties to the
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and their leagues. Still no case being made for the flags
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Flags#Overbroad_use_of_flags_with_politicized_connotations
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Knowledge (XXG):Flags#Help_the_reader_rather_than_decorate
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looks terrible , is that the flag of the USSR at the end?
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Both flags should be used, the Irish & the UK flags.
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Yeah we should probably change that to Elitserien. --
108:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
754:Does it ? It appears to be an All-Ireland League
1088:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/Navboxes
706:works fine with out flags or a location name .
42:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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292:wikipedia. Also, how many people know that
18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey
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881:As long as the flag is displayed using
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249:and probably keep the flag thereby. --
198:while the league contains a team from
122:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Ice Hockey
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48:It is of interest to the following
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102:This page is within the scope of
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829:Yeah I like the second option. -
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1039:work fine with out flags. This
125:Template:WikiProject Ice Hockey
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116:and see a list of open tasks.
1306:NA-Class Ice Hockey articles
893:Northern Ireland Trophy 2007
815:would look logical to me. --
655:would not be approrpriate. -
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632:Irish_Football_Association
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155:concurrent discussion at
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802:Irish Ice Hockey League
776:Irish Ice Hockey League
206:and has it's own flag:
202:, which is part of the
182:Irish Ice Hockey League
973:Austrian Hockey League
951:Asia League Ice Hockey
934:Austrian Hockey League
848:Asia League Ice Hockey
810:Asia League Ice Hockey
247:the same huge template
105:WikiProject Ice Hockey
1043:need to be followed
394:List of British flags
1014:Guinness_Premiership
681:Guinness_Premiership
560:. Clearly the word
930:Republic of Ireland
926:Republic of Ireland
196:Republic of Ireland
128:Ice Hockey articles
1057:I just follow the
338:British ice hockey
171:British ice hockey
44:content assessment
1277:comment added by
674:Ice Hockey League
653:Ice Hockey League
596:Ice Hockey League
558:Words are clearer
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40:project page
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535:both apply.
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119:Ice Hockey
110:ice hockey
69:Ice Hockey
1254:Rettetast
1041:Guideline
1300:Category
1287:contribs
1275:unsigned
886:Flagicon
867:China. -
805:" as on
779:" as on
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480:WP:FLAGS
462:WP:Flags
305:SM-liiga
1250:WP:FLAG
1196:Djsasso
1168:Djsasso
869:Djsasso
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738:Ireland
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650:Ireland
614:Djsasso
580:Djsasso
562:Ireland
484:Djsasso
448:GoodDay
428:GoodDay
412:Djsasso
398:GoodDay
380:Djsasso
345:Djsasso
290:English
272:Djsasso
267:WP:FLAG
164:WP:FLAG
1252:here.
1246:Gnevin
1213:Gnevin
1182:Gnevin
1154:Gnevin
1125:Gnevin
1092:Gnevin
1045:Gnevin
1034:Top 14
855:Gnevin
756:Gnevin
708:Gnevin
701:Top 14
636:Gnevin
600:Gnevin
566:Gnevin
465:Gnevin
365:Krm500
46:scale.
1279:Hal06
1210:WP:HV
789:and "
671:Irish
628:sides
593:Irish
396:. --
313:JD554
219:JD554
147:Flags
38:This
16:<
1283:talk
1258:talk
1217:talk
1200:talk
1186:talk
1172:talk
1158:talk
1143:talk
1129:talk
1114:talk
1096:talk
1077:talk
1049:talk
1000:talk
986:and
959:talk
942:talk
901:talk
873:talk
859:talk
835:talk
821:talk
760:talk
746:talk
712:talk
661:talk
640:talk
630:see
618:talk
604:talk
584:talk
570:talk
531:and
502:talk
488:talk
469:talk
452:talk
432:talk
416:talk
402:talk
384:talk
369:talk
349:talk
317:talk
276:talk
255:talk
223:talk
189:IIHL
153:NOTE
482:. -
311:--
1302::
1289:)
1285:•
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