586:? ISTM that this is something of an important difference (about as great as the specification vs the implementation), but they're currently in the same categories. I believe we'd have far more algorithic examples than we would for syntactic demonstration - however, the syntactic examples would probably use a more diverse set of languages. Taking this a step further, we could (and probably should) write all the algorithmic example code in the same language, for consistency's sake. I don't, personally, like having algorithms demonstrated in C - the low-level details tend to obscure the view in ways high-level languages don't.
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widely adopted, then say so. But most of the examples for these languages say things like "This Perl code is based on the Ruby code" or "this PHP code is based on the Python example". So if the focus is on reducing examples, attention should be made to the imperitave languages and not so much on the functional ones. Otherwise, you're just "feeding the monkey"--adherents are contributing code of their favorite language--and not really adding any substance to the examples in articles by preserving and growing the FP examples. --
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who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in
January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at
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672:. When explaining a DP algorithm, or something which works on strings, a more low-level notation which involves array indexing is needed. Preferably, this notation for variables etc. should be "formal enough" for it to be used in the rest of the article too, for example in recurrences showing the idea behind DP solutions. The notation should also be reasonably uniform across algorithm subtopics. Klem fra
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consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.
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how
Knowledge (XXG) had lots of source code for algorithms on it but very little means of finding them. I thought some categories for this would be a good idea. If we remove sizeable snippets from WP for consistency or popularity or whatever other reasons snippets might need to be removed for, maybe we could instigate some sort of transwiki process? --
528:, not to boost any particular programming language. The article on Algorithm X should show an implementation in some language that makes X easy to show. That means we're going to need a language like C for bitwise ops; a language like Java for OO; a language like Matlab for matrices; a language like Ocaml for currying; and so on and so forth. Once
668:. There should be easily understandable psedocode, on a level of detail suitable for showing the important aspects of the algorithm. In pseudocode for a graph algorithm, the concept of nodes and edges should be used, probably without regard to how the data structures are implemented. See for example the Ford-Fulkerson example at the top of
299:. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at
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Another random point I forgot to make: I figure I might as well put forward a 'use case' for the categories beyond just bookkeeping. The One True Holy And
Original Reason I began these categories was because there was this source-code based wiki I was taking a peek at and I read something there about
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Of course, the classes would be defined in the site CSS to have a default colour and stuff, but people could override them in their CSS files to match their preconceptions of what code looks like. Would this require a special parsing hook on the server? Or could a sufficiently convoluted template be
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proposal for an appreciation week to end on
Knowledge (XXG) Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals
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Regarding the functional languages: I would like to keep both the
Haskell and Scheme examples (translating the Ocaml to Haskell if it is a pure algorithm, otherwise to Scheme) because they follow different schools of minimalist functional programming: Haskell is a much more pure, much theoretically
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My "ought to be enough for anybody" comment was based more on the current amount of code on
Knowledge (XXG) than on any goal. I certainly wouldn't want to see all those languages present on every page! But since we do have substantial amounts of code in each (many?) of those languages, then adding
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section, but can we start some sort of process here about the disambiguation technique for the articles? I'd like to lobby for a change to this, and I'd suppose this is the best place for it. The common names for all these lanugages lack the "programming language" prhase, so i feel it is best to
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However, the larger point that needs to be made is that C++, Java, and C# examples duplicate eachother far more than functional programming language examples do. And there are even fewer new ideas added by examples in Perl, Python, Ruby, PHP. If people want to simply support languages that are
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are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please
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Yes, I'd also support the deletion of all but one of C++, C#, and Java. However, it seems to me that the number of people who will be offended by the exclusion of their favorite language in those cases is likely to be higher than in the case of, say, Ocaml. :) I totally agree with you about the
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I'd like to hear from WikiProject
Programming Languages members what you think of this idea. I will argue vehemently with anyone who opposes the general idea of reducing the number of "example code" languages; however, I really need guidance on the "Delete all but one of..." bullet points above
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one, but I could be persuaded that those languages are good for explaining some point better than any other language, so I'm reserving judgment on them. (That's why I only want to rename, not outright delete, the Matlab article, for example; it has array operations as primitives.)
398:, which seems to have vanished anyway.) Pascal, C, C++, Java, C#, Lisp, Python, Ruby, some modern FP language, some modern Web language, and pseudocode ought to be enough for anybody. Therefore, I propose to rewrite or delete a bunch of "language soup" sections such as the one at
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I believe I have figured out a reasonable procedure by which to carry on a poll of this renaming proposal that spans many programming language articles. For each programming language identified, please do the following (I have done it for
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monad scares and confuses the hell out of me, and it's (even further?) beyond the scope of an average reader. If, however, we slim it down to just one functional language we write examples of algorithms in, I would like it to be
Haskell.
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Seems like you're on a one-person campaign, but I'd like to urge we keep examples for Ocaml, Haskell and Scheme. Obviously, Scheme examples would be close to Common Lisp code, in the same way that Ocaml would be similar to
Standard ML.
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Does anyone have any time available to take a look at this one. As you will see from the Afd discussion there are (sometimes strong) views on the issue of reliable sources. The formatting of the article also needs help from an expert.
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where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention.
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at a particular task that they are totally useless as a pedagogical tool. You can't use Perl to demonstrate the parsing of regular expressions, for example, because that's built into the language, and a one-liner doesn't teach
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This note is to let you know, so that experts in the field can expand them and check them for accuracy, and so that they can be added to any watchlists/tasklists, and have any appropriate project banners added, etc. Thanks.
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On syntax highlighting: it's a pain to edit. Find the prettiest example code on the wiki you can, and look at the wikitext. AARGH! How difficult would it be to automate this highlighting for a few specific languages? Eg,
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and tell me what I'm doing wrong. :) Do you know if anyone's tried to tackle the other problems ("bugs" :) yet? Namely: (4) lack of wikilinking, (6*) nasty red error messages when given an unrecognized language.
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The default color schemes are unreadable due to poor contrast and poor choice of letter shapes — Perl comments display in light gray on white, which is unreadable, and in
Courier italics, which are next to
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188:, etc. If this discussion has already taken place and consensus for the current naming convention has already been reached, then please accept my apologies for bringing this discussion back up again.
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And yeah, this is looking a lot like a one-man crusade. But I'm hoping that by posting here, and doing a lot of deletions with Talk page comments, I can drum up some interest in helping out. --
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482:(which one should stay?), and also on the cats I didn't explicitly mention above. Is JavaScript really necessary? How about keeping only one of C# and Java? And so on. Discuss. --
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Is there a style guide for what information should be presented in a programming language article? If so, I imagine this project article would be the right place for it. --
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is probably that it makes underscores disappear — I'm pretty sure it didn't always do that, but it started having the problem a year or so ago. Here's a fix, thanks to
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is bad, but not awful; that's the closest to acceptable any of the defaults come right now, as far as I've seen. (2) You can write <code lang="pascal": -->
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The angry fruit-salad of the source tags can be fixed through css, and a bug has been committed to aid in making this easier. Please comment or vote at
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245:==Requested move== ] → ] – Conformance with WP naming conventions ~~~ {{Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Programming languages/Renaming poll}}
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put it into parenthesis in order to best disambiguate. Looking at many disambiguation pages, the lack of parentheses also looks out of place:
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and MediaWiki will ignore the unrecognized "lang=" with no ill effects; therefore, I suggest using a "lang=" parameter in new <code: -->
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Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ?
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However, it has a bunch of problems that need to be resolved before it can actually be used in Knowledge (XXG) articles. For starters:
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List of languages needing infoboxes I compiled a while ago. Feel free to help out and add/remove entries to the list as appropriate. --
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The default color schemes are inconsistent between languages — Perl comments are colored differently from C++ comments, for example.
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If so, could that same someone also get rid of the trailing newline (fixed above by putting the closing </code: -->
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I think that debuggers for programming languages might fall within the scope of this WikiProject. Would you agree?
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Well, I think most people didn't know it existed (I didn't). But there's nothing wrong with putting it here. --
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And they all do different things? Is there a clear description of what each does? (don't forget word-wrap). —
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cleaner language, wheras Scheme is more of a jack-of-all-trades, as functional languages go. For example, take
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void this_is_how_things_should_be_done() { puts("Hooray_underscores!"); puts("Hooray_underscores!"); }
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1066:. deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at
715:. It can cope with many languages right now, and can be extended if necessary to cover new ones. HTH HAND —
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Commenting again to bump this on people's watchlists. The AfD could really use some knowledgeable eyes.
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tag on the same line as the closing curly brace, when it really ought to go on the next line down)? --
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if necessary — it's an inferior substitute for a tag-based system, but it'll have to do, for now. --
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void oh_no_no_underscores() { puts("Boo_no_underscores!"); puts("Boo_no_underscores!"); }
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150:. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality.
129:. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality.
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Another couple of random points: how about we make a distinction between code demonstrating an
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is probably the place that got me thinking, though I believe there are other such sites. --
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Until these problems are fixed — and who knows how long that will take? — please please
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Sorry to hit you twice: we need help with the review, and in addressing the articles.
104:. If anyone has any comments or suggestions on what I've been doing, please drop by its
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Phil: The CSS thing doesn't seem to work (yet?). If you would, please take a look at
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goal should be to reduce the number of different languages used on Knowledge (XXG).
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tags to any article in the English Knowledge (XXG). Use the existing <code: -->
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The extension does not support wikilinking within <syntaxhighlight lang="": -->
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The extension "supports" many languages which it cannot parse correctly, such as
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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766:. Incorrect syntax highlighting can be worse than no syntax highlighting at all.
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one (ActionScript, PHP,...) would be ridiculous. Hope that clarifies my comment.
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There are other cats in that supercat that I think are superfluous, such as the
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
453:. Euphoria's syntax is cleaner, but Pascal is standardized and better known. --
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Found it on the CS project page and copied it over. Is it still up-to-date? --
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Page(s) related to this project have been created and/or added to one of the
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21:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC) the most common programming language is C++.
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Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of
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tags; thus, it is impossible to wikify comments, or link a use of the
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Proposed deletion: Semantics-directed Environment Adaptation Language
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277:(until October 1st). Figure this is the right place to tell people. -
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1522:. We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. --
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for FA status. Please participate and help improve the article. --
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Programming languages/Renaming poll
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is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found
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is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found
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The above "bug" has now been closed and a new page introduced:
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Last but not least, the default color schemes are just plain
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories for deletion/Log/2006 November 29
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Now, is anybody here clever enough to get the <code: -->
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So now there are how many ways to present code-like text?
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An article that may be of interest to this WikiProject,
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http://en.literateprograms.org/LiteratePrograms:Welcome
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One more point that may be obvious: Some languages are
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An obligatory illustration of problems 2, 3, 5, and 6:
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It is my opinion that there should be no real code in
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And it might also be a good idea if I included a URL.
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Programming languages
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foo(bar): <span class="db-ZXhhbXBsZWNvZA": -->
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This is the first step in a proposal to clean up the
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Knowledge (XXG):Algorithms_on_Wikipedia#Code_samples
1547:Expert input requested on this article. Thanks. --
908:Two more comments: (1) The syntax highlighting for
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383:Category:Articles with example ActionScript code
169:Talk:Python_programming_language#Article naming
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524:The goal should be to clarify and explain
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694:User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week
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439:Category:Articles with example Ocaml code
263:is Good Article Collaboration of the week
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664:. Most code examples should go to
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1472:- Expert help request.
1342:subpages (not by me).
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445:Delete all but one of
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123:C programming language
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1508:A discussion
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1570:This is an
1158:Quuxplusone
973:Quuxplusone
916:Quuxplusone
899:Quuxplusone
807:"TOO LARGE"
742:underlining
689:Esperanza's
553:Quuxplusone
514:yet another
484:Quuxplusone
472:Quuxplusone
455:Quuxplusone
309:peer review
291:Hello. The
195:—Preceding
36:This is an
1550:Levine2112
1516:" is open
1477:Thanks. –
1455:talk to me
1420:talk to me
1403:talk to me
1320:talk to me
1303:talk to me
1262:talk to me
1245:talk to me
1207:talk to me
1190:talk to me
1102:talk to me
846:=<: -->
736:illegible.
526:algorithms
467:JavaScript
337:Cybercobra
305:assessment
1606:Archive 3
1600:Archive 2
1594:Archive 1
1027:IanOsgood
1017:IanOsgood
1003:Omegatron
933:AmiDaniel
654:algorithm
576:algorithm
546:anything.
534:secondary
354:nominated
72:Archive 3
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1439:HotBasic
1371:Quiddity
1064:Deletion
1040:Ideogram
641:Abednigo
624:Abednigo
613:Abednigo
361:Ideogram
209:contribs
197:unsigned
190:atanamir
108:page. –
86:Ideogram
1573:archive
1494:Ford MF
1479:ukexpat
1414:updated
1392:Deleted
1388:WP:PROD
1314:updated
1292:Deleted
1288:WP:PROD
1256:updated
1230:WP:PROD
1201:updated
1179:Deleted
1175:WP:PROD
1096:updated
1088:Deleted
1072:Dominus
828:reverse
771:hideous
584:feature
543:so good
418:Rename
352:I have
348:FAC nom
201:Patr566
110:Zawersh
39:archive
1171:W.I.D.
1080:Ferite
1060:Ferite
1052:Ferite
991:source
910:Python
889:please
756:printf
751:printf
580:syntax
311:, and
1386:(via
1286:(via
1228:(via
1226:PHAML
1173:(via
798:: -->
789:print
357:Forth
346:Forth
155:Sandy
131:Sandy
16:<
1519:here
1498:talk
1483:talk
1284:Ddbg
1234:Kept
988:code
955:Talk
951:Phil
937:talk
861:sqrt
764:Perl
721:Talk
717:Phil
568:Cont
530:that
449:and
318:B2T2
279:Hyad
249:Poll
205:talk
148:here
127:here
106:talk
1534:.
1441:at
1082:at
985:pre
931:.
867:$ x
864:abs
843:$ x
831:map
822:$ /
813:$ _
801:400
795:$ _
786:map
582:or
422:to
410:and
271:is
1500:)
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1369:--
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994:tt
971:--
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879:11
876:..
852:**
825:),
792:((
719:|
660::
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470:--
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840:(
837:*
834:5
819:.
816:)
810::
804:?
759:.
518:)
441:.
415:.
385:.
203:(
50:.
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