Knowledge (XXG)

Talk:1896 Summer Olympics

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1576:'s view, as it does seem erroneous when there is no corresponding winter games for those periods. At the time of those respective events, I am sure there would not have been any formal mention of the season when referring to them. The issue I guess is that to move these then means that all the respective "summer-season" Olympic articles do not have a consistent title. What tilts it for me is that there were winter events too held simultaneously at these events, so the "summer" is more around the "when" rather than the "what" until 1924 onwards. I don't see a big enough issue if we keep the current titles as redirects. 242: 772: 740: 515: 233: 548: 483: 630: 407: 380: 296: 275: 417: 1696: 1598:, for which the naming is not in dispute, and the numbers look similar. I would feel differently if there was a factual inaccuracy in the titles, or if the current titles broke the style guide. However, considering they are merely overly elaborating, and reverting that elaboration requires prior knowledge from the user to know why the naming convention changes (not to mention the 710: 306: 2120:. There was no such thing as the "Summer Olympics" in these years. And "Winter Olympic" sports like figure skating and ice hockey were competed at these Olympics, so it is potentially confusing to use the misnomer of "Summer Olympics" for these games. And based on the Google Ngrams, "Year Olympics" is more common than "Year Summer Olympics" for all of these years. 1281:. There was no such thing as the "Summer Olympics" in these years. And "Winter Olympic" sports like figure skating and ice hockey were competed at these Olympics, so it is potentially confusing to use the misnomer of "Summer Olympics" for these games. And based on the Google Ngrams, "Year Olympics" is more common than "Year Summer Olympics" for all of these years. 1426:
then go with that. Or maybe the solution would be to scrap this, and open an RfC to get a wider input? I'm not trying to bludgeon a/the process, but would like a bigger audience to contribute to this, so we don't get a day/week/month after a possibly contentious move being questioned further. I've already dropped a note at
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Kallithea" (as later on in the article), so I've done so ("in Kallithea" would in fact be even better English). This error may be due to the fact that the Greek words for "in Kallithea" (στην Καλλιθέα) literally mean "in the Kallithea", which suggests that the article was written, unedited, by a native Greek-speaker.
1863:. The current disambiguation with Summer is not required, as the Winter Olympics did not begin until 1924, and inaccurate, as the 1908 and 1920 Olympics included Winter events, and the cancelled 1916 Olympics would have included Winter events. The proposed title is also the COMMONNAME for these events, per ngrams: 889:
In the "Venues" section we're told that the fencing events were held "at the Zappeion" (which makes sense, since it is a building), but that the sport shooting events were held "at the Kallithea" (which doesn't, since Kallithea is simply a district of Athens). This should presumably be changed to "at
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The summary paragraphs state that the only non-European team at the games was the Americans, yet later on the article mentions a singular Chilean athlete at the games. Is this an error or is it non technically a mistake because he was possibly there by himself. If the latter is true should the intro
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I'm amazed we only had two different numbers. Might have been 10, might have been 12, might have been 13, might have been 14, might have been 15. I've changed the paragraph to conform to the IOC numbers, which we use in the infobox as well. The rest of the article does have discussion of the varying
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Seems like this is a perennial topic around here - but can someone please link the original discussion to move all Olympic games prior to 1920 to include the term "summer"? How was consensus reached then? The fact that this discussion rears its head every so often means there was "no consensus" to
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The text states: "On April 6, 1896, American James Connolly became the first Olympic medalist in more than 1,500 years, competing in the triple jump." Didn't the ancient winners get laurel wreaths and the like, with medals being a modern invention? Would it be better to say Mr. Connolly was the
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it states - "If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed". I guess it's fine tuning the nuance of "no good reason". However, if there is a good reason, AND there's a better volume of votes (either supporting or opposing),
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I hadn't seen last year's RM for some reason but I've read through the arguments. I can understand where some of the opposes are coming from. What leads me to land slightly on the support side is the inclusion of winter sports from 1908 onwards, so the "Summer" bit in the title is misleading and
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From an administrator's perspective (which is what I'm currently commenting from) if there is no opposition to the proposed "why don't we move them all" in this discussion, I would not see it as unreasonable to then move the relevant pages if there was unanimous (or close to it) support.
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There are valid arguments on both sides, but neither side is significantly stronger than the other, therefore, there is not a clear enough consensus to change the status quo. Given the multiple relists, it is unlikely a clear consensus would develop if this RM were left open for longer.
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The Chilean participation in 1896 is very controversial in Olympic history circles. Basically, Chilean historians insist a 13 year old competed in the 100m whilst the rest of the world admit he was entered into the race but find no proof he actually turned up to race.
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I don't think the moves themselves should happen just on two support votes, as there's clearly a bigger impact on the related pages as well. There's a Featured Article in the mix (I thought there was others, but just the 1896 page), along with titles such as
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of 2020 Olympics is not relevant to this move request; the only question is whether the most common name for the 1900 Olympics is "1900 Summer Olympics" or "1900 Olympics", and the answer is clearly the latter. Google Scholar reinforces this, with
1920:. And the previous problem that was raised: where shortening those titles would require prior knowledge from the reader to know why the naming convention changed prior to the start of theses separate Olympics. Instead we should still keep some 246: 1546: 804:
The topic gets featured as today's Google Doodle and Knowledge (XXG)'s On This day. Semiprotection/pending changes protection is a must hence its timing, nature, importance and is a featured article on Knowledge (XXG).
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For what it's worth, the IOC I believe prefers "1896 Athens Olympics" etc., but I don't think that that usage is common enough at present to justify using it on Knowledge (XXG). Nomination makes good points, but
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at that time they were just Olympic Games, but I think based on current summer/winter system they are often referred to summer games (plus the dates were in summer and "winter sports" were held indoors.
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The second paragraph begins thus: "Thirteen nations and 280 athletes (all males) took part in the games..." Just five sentences further: "Ten of the 14 participating nations earned medals."
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The page movement isn't a primary argument against moving - if you could tell me that every article and link in the Wiki would be moved and unbroken, I would still oppose the move. -
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The games happened over 100 years ago; not much is going to change but I think it is reasonable to reconsider it a year later and hopefully come to a consensus either way.
1513:, as Lugnuts raises, is valid as well. Personally I think it would be weird to have most of the editions as summer/winter and then a few not, a view that is supported by 2392: 1751: 1086: 492: 390: 2452: 2197:
incorrect. It would be odd to just move those articles where winter sports were included and hence, if we change titles, then everything pre-1924 should change.
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explicitly excludes disambiguation (in this case "Summer" and "Winter"), which is by definition inconsistent: some titles will need them and some won't.
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If this is approved, I wouldn't expect other editors to move those pages; I would do it myself. I don't think that is a good argument against moving.
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amount of movement required to meet "well, technically you don't need this much clarification in the title"), this is just not a move I can support. -
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In the "medal count" section there is standing that there are gold silver and bronze medals but that is completely wrong. That should be changed.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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TITLECHANGES only applies to when "there is no good reason to change it", and so does not cover policy-based reasons like COMMONNAME.
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and its preference for consistent titles; even though that is just one consideration according to the policy, it what tips it for me.
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I would say that those should be changed as well. But those can be handled in a separate move request later after this one is over.
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On the contrary, I think it is right to conduct the discussion on all its implications together and not by the salami method.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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in the wiki bureaucracy; we can't just keep making the default outcome of "no consensus" an extension of the status quo.
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If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed
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If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Google Doodle/Wikipedia On this day mention, semi-protection/pending changes protection necessary?
154: 1635: 1607: 1568:, interesting discussion. I hadn't thought too much about it before but I am inclined to side in 1518: 1387: 1372: 1340: 1323: 1296: 1041: 217: 1541:
supports the move. I do, however, think that it supports the move, as it requires us not to use
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Minor correction; four in support, not two - myself, Rreagon007, Iggy the Swan, and Showiecz.
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have the current name to begin with, but it's essentially being treated as an irreversible
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The calendar no longer has dots that lead to links showing the events. We could either:
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This article appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s Main Page as Today's featured article on
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If additional sources will help convince you, consider the Google Scholar results:
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summary be changed to be more clear about the number of non-European athletes?
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Agree re Google Ngrams search results, so I am also supporting these moves.
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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
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As with last year's RM, there's no clear consensus on how to interpret the
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I guess the administrators agree as the article is semi-protected just now
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The German quote needs a translation... otherwise should be removed.
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are inaccurate, due to including Winter events; I believe this is a
1590:- I see the argument, but I don't think this is really a case of 1572:
with dropping the "summer" from the aforementioned titles as per
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page twice
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Facts from this article were featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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1. Create a list of every event in the 1896 Olympics, or
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On 9 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in Everyday life
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On 24 April 2022, it was proposed that this article be
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
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These articles need to be distinguished. 2453:Pages in the Knowledge (XXG) Top 25 Report 1721:The following is a closed discussion of a 1059:The following is a closed discussion of a 566: 509: 374: 269: 1644:To address the rest of your comment, the 983:So was it thirteen nations or fourteen?! 2393:FA-Class vital articles in Everyday life 1972: 230: 1748:policy with regards to these articles. 376: 271: 2373:Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles 2150: 1953: 1917: 1542: 1706:listed at Knowledge (XXG):Move review 1655:61 results for "1900 Summer Olympics" 7: 1740:The result of the move request was: 1078:The result of the move request was: 428:This article is within the scope of 337:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Olympics 317:This article is within the scope of 2428:WikiProject Greece general articles 1484:Figure skating at the Olympic Games 957:at least. Why not set it straight? 719:. The week in which this happened: 36:for discussing improvements to the 448:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Greece 14: 2438:Knowledge (XXG) featured articles 490:This article is supported by the 63:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 2403:Top-importance Olympics articles 2284:The discussion above is closed. 1694: 1678:The discussion above is closed. 770: 738: 708: 628: 546: 513: 415: 405: 378: 304: 294: 273: 240: 231: 58:Click here to start a new topic. 2383:FA-Class level-5 vital articles 1651:208 results for "1900 Olympics" 1488:Ice hockey at the Olympic Games 976:Number of participating nations 468:This article has been rated as 357:This article has been rated as 2418:High-importance Greek articles 1960:is a good reason to change it. 1752:closed by non-admin page mover 1687:Requested move 9 February 2023 1087:closed by non-admin page mover 260:It is of interest to multiple 1: 2408:WikiProject Olympics articles 2279:19:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC) 2246:19:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC) 2228:14:48, 10 February 2023 (UTC) 2211:08:44, 10 February 2023 (UTC) 2185:19:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC) 2167:07:52, 10 February 2023 (UTC) 2130:02:15, 10 February 2023 (UTC) 1767:19:15, 16 February 2023 (UTC) 1419:Jeux olympiques d'été de 1920 1227:) 18:22, 24 April 2022 (UTC) 442:and see a list of open tasks. 340:Template:WikiProject Olympics 331:and see a list of open tasks. 55:Put new text under old text. 2433:All WikiProject Greece pages 2101:23:44, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 1934:18:35, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 1900:15:21, 9 February 2023 (UTC) 1052:Requested move 24 April 2022 971:18:23, 3 February 2021 (UTC) 930:00:20, 31 January 2019 (UTC) 853:Translation for German quote 2354:17:12, 14 August 2024 (UTC) 1415:Olympiska sommarspelen 1912 915:2. 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2031: 2030: 2027: 2024: 2022: 2019: 2017:1904 Olympics 2016: 2015: 2012: 2009: 2007: 2004: 2002:1900 Olympics 2001: 2000: 1997: 1994: 1992: 1989: 1987:1896 Olympics 1986: 1985: 1981: 1978: 1975: 1974: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1962: 1959: 1958:WP:COMMONNAME 1955: 1951: 1947: 1943: 1940: 1937: 1936: 1935: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1911: 1907: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1897: 1893: 1890: 1886: 1882: 1878: 1874: 1870: 1866: 1862: 1861:WP:COMMONNAME 1858: 1854: 1846: 1845:1920 Olympics 1841: 1838: 1835: 1834:1916 Olympics 1830: 1827: 1824: 1823:1912 Olympics 1819: 1816: 1813: 1812:1908 Olympics 1808: 1805: 1802: 1801:1904 Olympics 1797: 1794: 1791: 1790:1900 Olympics 1786: 1783: 1780: 1779:1896 Olympics 1775: 1772: 1771: 1769: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1759: 1753: 1747: 1743: 1742:no consensus. 1736: 1734: 1729: 1724: 1719: 1718: 1711: 1707: 1703: 1700: 1693: 1692: 1686: 1681: 1668: 1664: 1660: 1656: 1652: 1647: 1646:WP:COMMONNAME 1643: 1642: 1641: 1637: 1633: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1623: 1619: 1615: 1614: 1613: 1609: 1605: 1601: 1597: 1593: 1592:WP:COMMONNAME 1589: 1586: 1584: 1581: 1580: 1575: 1571: 1567: 1564: 1560: 1556: 1552: 1548: 1544: 1540: 1536: 1532: 1531: 1530: 1527: 1522: 1516: 1512: 1507: 1504: 1502: 1498: 1494: 1489: 1485: 1478: 1475: 1473: 1469: 1465: 1461: 1458: 1454: 1450: 1446: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1437: 1436: 1429: 1424: 1420: 1416: 1411: 1407: 1405: 1401: 1393: 1389: 1385: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1374: 1370: 1366: 1365: 1364: 1360: 1356: 1352: 1351:WP:CONSISTENT 1348: 1347: 1346: 1342: 1338: 1334: 1331: 1329: 1325: 1321: 1317: 1314: 1310: 1306: 1302: 1298: 1294: 1293: 1292: 1288: 1284: 1280: 1276: 1275:WP:COMMONNAME 1272: 1269: 1268: 1267: 1265: 1261: 1257: 1254: 1253: 1245: 1241: 1237: 1234: 1233: 1226: 1222: 1219: 1215: 1211: 1207: 1203: 1199: 1195: 1191: 1190:WP:COMMONNAME 1183: 1182:1920 Olympics 1178: 1175: 1172: 1171:1916 Olympics 1167: 1164: 1161: 1160:1912 Olympics 1156: 1153: 1150: 1149:1908 Olympics 1145: 1142: 1139: 1138:1904 Olympics 1134: 1131: 1128: 1127:1900 Olympics 1123: 1120: 1117: 1116:1896 Olympics 1112: 1109: 1108: 1106: 1105: 1101: 1097: 1093: 1088: 1081: 1080:no consensus. 1074: 1072: 1067: 1062: 1057: 1056: 1051: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1030: 1026: 1022: 1018: 1017:Allhutsincuba 1014: 1003: 999: 995: 991: 986: 985: 984: 981: 975: 973: 972: 968: 964: 963:78.73.226.176 960: 959:1896 Olympics 956: 952: 948: 947:Olympic games 944: 942: 935:1896 Olympics 934: 932: 931: 927: 923: 919: 916: 913: 910: 904: 902: 901: 897: 893: 884: 882: 879: 875: 871: 867: 863: 852: 850: 849: 845: 841: 834: 830: 826: 822: 819: 818: 817: 816: 812: 808: 799: 792: 788: 784: 783:1896 Olympics 780: 776: 769: 768: 760: 756: 752: 751:1896 Olympics 748: 744: 737: 736: 725: 722: 721: 718: 717:Top 25 Report 714: 707: 706: 699: 694: 690: 689:April 6, 2021 686: 685:April 6, 2020 682: 681:April 6, 2017 678: 677:April 6, 2016 674: 673:April 6, 2014 670: 669:April 6, 2010 666: 665:April 6, 2009 662: 661:April 6, 2008 658: 657:April 6, 2007 654: 653:April 6, 2006 650: 649:April 6, 2005 646: 644: 638: 634: 631: 627: 626: 618: 616: 615: 611: 608: 604: 603: 599: 597: 596: 592: 589: 585: 584: 580: 577: 574: 573: 568: 564: 560: 559:July 26, 2024 556: 552: 549: 545: 544: 540: 536: 532: 531: 526: 522: 519: 516: 512: 511: 495: 494: 484: 480: 479: 475: 471: 465: 462: 461: 458: 441: 437: 433: 432: 424: 423:Greece portal 413: 411: 408: 404: 403: 399: 392: 387: 384: 381: 377: 364: 360: 354: 351: 350: 347: 330: 326: 322: 321: 313: 302: 300: 297: 293: 292: 288: 282: 279: 276: 272: 267: 263: 257: 249: 248: 238: 234: 229: 228: 209: 208: 205: 202: 200: 196: 195: 190: 186: 183: 180: 176: 172: 168: 165: 162: 159: 156: 153: 150: 147: 144: 140: 137: 136:Find sources: 133: 132: 124: 123:Verifiability 121: 119: 116: 114: 111: 110: 109: 100: 96: 94: 91: 89: 85: 82: 80: 77: 76: 70: 66: 65:Learn to edit 62: 59: 54: 53: 50: 49: 45: 39: 35: 31: 30: 23: 20: 18: 17: 2343: 2323: 2299: 2296: 2285: 2254: 2215: 2198: 2194:Weak support 2193: 2134: 2109: 2093:BilledMammal 1905: 1892:BilledMammal 1850: 1756: 1741: 1739: 1727: 1720: 1709: 1701: 1679: 1659:BilledMammal 1618:BilledMammal 1599: 1587: 1577: 1574:BilledMammal 1570:weak support 1569: 1565: 1551:BilledMammal 1505: 1476: 1459: 1445:BilledMammal 1431: 1418: 1414: 1409: 1403: 1402: 1332: 1315: 1270: 1251: 1250: 1231: 1230: 1221:BilledMammal 1187: 1079: 1077: 1065: 1058: 1011:— Preceding 1007: 982: 979: 938: 920: 917: 914: 911: 908: 888: 866:Stanlavisbad 860:— Preceding 856: 837: 820: 803: 791:no consensus 790: 759:no consensus 758: 697: 640: 612: 593: 539:please do so 528: 520: 491: 469: 429: 358: 318: 262:WikiProjects 245: 197: 184: 178: 170: 163: 157: 151: 145: 135: 107: 32:This is the 2340:Medal count 2086:413 results 2071:153 results 2056:828 results 2051:118 results 2041:565 results 2026:391 results 2011:227 results 1996:356 results 1733:move review 1539:WP:CRITERIA 1515:WP:TITLECON 1071:move review 994:Speak to me 838:Thanks Ryan 161:free images 44:not a forum 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