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Talk:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami

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2520:- which we should rely on is anybody's guess, as the latter mentions a reduction in the number of missing, to quote "India revised its earlier figure of 5,640 after lowering its estimate of people missing in Andaman and Nicobar Islands", which arguably refers to the number of missing, which it gives as 3,874. The difference between the two is 1,766, not quite the 1,968 between the two overall estimates, but it is the difference between the two estimates for India in the two lists. Most of the rest is the 196 extra deaths in Indonesia in the UN Office for the Envoy and I don't know where they came from. We'll never get a true answer and it's not worth trying I suspect. For various reasons the lower figure is I think preferable, but I'm happy that we include the higher number as an alternative. I've been searching for recent updates but found nothing definitive, so we may have to wait for the 20th anniversary later this year. 3160:. It talks about the total energy released in an earthquake being divided into three components - energy radiated as seismic waves (that's what we feel and is recorded by seismometers), fracture energy (that's energy expended creating new fracture surfaces along the fault plane and within the surrounding rock) and frictional energy (energy expended overcoming the frictional resistance to sliding that mostly appears as heat). The last two components are known as "dissipative" and they are judged to represent a large proportion of the total energy release, in fact the majority. This means that the total energy released is always much bigger than the energy radiated as seismic waves. I hope that helps. 505: 484: 2439: 2326: 281: 1806: 211: 1556: 1535: 2470:
there that use the approximation 230,000. This is qualified by "around", "about", "almost", "approximately", "nearly", "up to". Others say "greater than" but in one case the more nuanced "may exceed 230,000", a source that is itself cited to support "more than" in other sources. 280,000 is also still used in other sources, presumably referring back to earlier estimates before Indonesia reduced there numbers by 50,000. I'm personally comfortable with what is in the article now.
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himself), I noticed that the numbers were updated between different snapshots of the webpage. The biggest change was the number for India, which increased by nearly 6,000 between versions with the date of the source for the number changing between November 2005 and January 2006 (both Government of India). In contrast the number for India in the Synthesis Report derives from an article in December 2005 in
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FYI, we take talk page discussions seriously. Everything you've said, down to your phrasing, suggests you're either unsure of how scientific research works or straight up dismissive, and in a tongue-in-cheek manner. I would appreciate if you actually went into details to scrutinise the papers against
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and colleagues revising their magnitude from Mw 9.1 in 2007 to Mw 9.2 in 2017, the 2016 Bletery et al study which gives Mw 9.25 and notes its close to the Mw 9.3 obtained through normal mode analyses. The "latest" study in the 2000s which actually calculates the magnitude, from what I've been able to
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You're thinking of Myanmar, not Malaysia and that is one reason for suspecting that the total may be in excess of 230,000 if we take the 229,866 number, but we have nothing definitive there. As I went looking for archived copies for the Human Toll given by the office of the UN envoy (not Bill Clinton
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There is a paragraph under the heading Tsunami, sub-heading Early Signs and Warnings, talking about how in some places the waterline receded and caused fatalities due to people picking up fish from the beach and being hit by the tsunami. This should be changed to include the reason for this, Positive
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I pointed out that the tyre is flat, i dont have phd on tyre pressure, but i can see it is flat. Why an earth someone still thinks it's ok while they see same thing? I understand that online calculator is not good enough source to cite, but if it were erroneus someone would have pointed those online
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I note that Gopinathan et al. (2017) were not attempting to recalculate the magnitude. They themselves think that the high slips in the northern part of the rupture that their inversion produces are not real but a result of thick soft sediments beneath the seabed. Any reduction in slip would lead to
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I'm not sure about changing the magnitude. A very quick analysis of the titles of papers listed using the ISC link (all 959 of them) in the infobox gives the following number of mentions: 9.0 12, 9.1 9, 9.2 14, 9.3 11, although of course that's just the titles, but it is indicative that we should be
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Other Lives but Mine (French: D'autres vies que la mienne, published as Lives Other Than My Own in the United States) is a 2009 non-fiction book by the French writer Emmanuel Carrère that tells the stories of several people he had met. Carrère was vacationing in Sri Lanka at the time of the tsunami,
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The 26 Mt TNT-equivalent figure does not come from the source. It is an automatically calculated figure from the 1.1e17 N m figure, which is from the source. Since the TNT equivalent is a directly convertible unit of the same dimension, using an automated calculation here isn't wrong, but I do have
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Isn't there a dispute over the total for Malaysia? Reported I believe 61 victims, but someone say 600, though whether this is credible I have not checked. I'm unsure of whether 227,898 and 229,866 should be used in the info box, as 227,898 is the Synthesis Report's final toll and seems to be the
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We now carry two totals in the body of the article, 227,898 and 229,866, both with impeccable sourcing, the difference being mainly in the total for India - I note that looking back through the web archives for the latter source that it was updated in January 2006. There are a lot of sources out
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I've looked for quite a bit on the death toll numbers from recent estimations or studies and haven't had much luck. I have found quite a few more recent studies regarding its magnitude however, which is why I changed it to be between Mw 9.2–9.3, and the most recent study on the 1964 Alaskan
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I don't even understand what you're trying to convey here. Are you reiterating my points back to me? Again it seems like you are misrepresenting all of our comments. I'm trying to help you get a better picture and you are either in denial or these concepts haven't been fully
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I have heard even larger numbers than 1.1 Gigatons, but that 25 Megatons in Wiki article is way off, it is not true at all. It might be referring to the damage done buy actual water movement, or the energy in its movement, but i still see that 25 Megatons being misleading.
2700:. Okal & Stein confirm their earlier estimate of 9.3. Fujii et al. use tsunami data to invert for fault slip distribution and this gives a 9.2 magnitude, up from the 9.1 that they had previously calculated. In summary, 9.2–9.3 seems a fair range to have in the infobox. 3225:
and the calculator itself, an unreliable source. We are not certain of the calculator's formula, and, even if we did, we do not have the authority do that here. Again, OR. Reiterating Mike, you still need to find compelling arguments and sources to back it
2844:"The 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, also known as the Boxing Day earthquake, had an estimated energy release equivalent to 1.1 gigatons of TNT . This massive undersea earthquake triggered a devastating tsunami that affected several countries in the region." 2880:
is about 1.38 x 10 Joules (138 petaJoules). This is the equivalent to 33 Megatons, so 25 megatons is not egregiously wrong. You will need to come up with good quality scientific sources to persuade anyone to change the numbers used in the article.
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By the way, there is no scientific paper to back that 26MT of radiated energy, so why is it up there? No scientific paper saying that radiated energy from this earthquake, that caused this destructive tsunami, is only
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is most representative. Please take some time to look at reliable sources from credible authors to make your arguments compelling. I am inferring that you don't quite grasp the topic well yet and misunderstanding us.
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NatGeo article: "The earthquake that generated the great Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004 is estimated to have released the energy of 23,000 Hiroshima-type atomic bombs, according to the U.S. Geological Survey
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It goes back to whether there are reliable sources that actually discuss this; this discussion isn't going to lead anywhere unless sources are identified. I've just removed the offending passage for now.
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Radiated energy is a component of the total energy released, it is not representative of the entire event. Total seismic moment is larger, and for that value, it is 5.5 Ă— 10 J, according to
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I highly discourage magazines/websites when it comes to sourcing these scientific parameters. We should stick to peer-reviewed academic papers (that most magazines/news outlets source from).
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That paper is proof of having paper, nothing more, it needs to be accurate and be based on same data than rest of the article and the event, as this wiki article talks about single event.
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Adding to Mike's cmmts, large earthquakes of this size don't use the Richter scale. Using a different scale doesn't mean it's inaccurate, it's just a different calibration method.
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articles to link to for context? Are they obscure technical concepts, in which case they won't really warrant mentioning in an encyclopedia article aimed at the general reader?
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You keyed a figure between 9.1 and 9.3 into a calc. conveniently found on the internet is never going to be a strong basis for your arguments, and you're still stuck with it.
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following Dora the Axe-plorer's above link. The basic concept still needs to be better explained to the reader, though (compare the original version quoted below).)
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So maybe there could be energy for Total seismic movement and Energy release derived from that, and both mentioned in tons of TNT for comparison, to get some idea.
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So maybe there could be energy for Total seismic movement and Energy release derived from that, and both mentioned in tons of TNT for comparison, to get some idea.
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So magnitude 9.3 in richter scale radiates much more energy than that 26MT or 33Mt, and yes im talking energy magnitude that is mentioned in the article. Try it.
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I just assumed that, as a simple use of calculator show, that 9.3 in richter eq has energy radiated much more than that 26MT, and that the article can be fixed.
3528:, by the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake was estimated at 1.1*10^17J or 26.3 megatons of TNT. This energy is equivalent to over 1502 times that of the Hiroshima 914: 809: 90: 3284:
I think you should not link to that, and not even talk about energy released, as you have no authority to fix without someone writing a paper for it/about it.
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You'll have to explain what do you mean by "common sence" here. It's not easy to visualise such a figure and compare that with real-world situations.
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The USGS really does not seemingly update its figures, just gives 9.1 for both Tohoku and Sumatra, and then you note the study they cite giving 9.2.
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Headline says "energy release", and for sure someone thinks that they now have answer, to what kind of forces there is in this kind of earthquakes.
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Headline says "energy release", and for sure someone thinks that they now have answer, to what kind of forces there is in this kind of earthquakes.
2853:"The Sumatra-Andaman earthquake, which caused the tsunami, is estimated to have released energy equivalent to 23,000 Hiroshima-type atomic bombs." 1596: 96: 3923: 3908: 3863: 3788: 666: 880: 775: 3692: 3354: 3202: 3005:
Talks about 8.5 Richter magnitude earthquake, but estimates have been later up to 9.3, that is big difference, up to 16 times in energy release.
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Now i don't have scientific papers to replace that information, but i can point out that something is not right here, that's what i mostly try.
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But this is now become useless discussion, as you have no authority to remove false information from Knowledge (XXG), as you seem to admit.
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Article should be useful to people who want to have answers, answers that are close enough, and the method how that answer was achieved.
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Article should be useful to people who want to have answers, answers that are close enough, and the method how that answer was achieved.
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It is supposed to be total radiated energy of total event, not just from one of the moments in the event as the source for 26MT suggest.
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But for this purpose, it should be enough to point out that the tyre is flat, even that it is not giving us scientific paper about it.
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find, is the 2007 study by Stein and Okal of Mw 9.3. There's this 2017 study as well of Mw 9.35, though you may want to look at it.
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other reliable sources, rather than using online calculators, and terms such as "word salad". Very unserious tone coming from you.
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Also we stick to what the scientists have said, not some calculator we found on the internet that'll give us bigger values that we
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Even for the 1964 Alaskan earthquake, only one study gives a figure of 9.2, all studies well after it give it 9.07, 9.12, or 9.14.
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If article states the amount of energy release, it also should mention what the energy release actually is, currently it does not.
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and part of the book focuses on the aftermath and the tragedy of a French family who lost their four-year old daughter, Juliette.
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It's placed there to mislead people in to thinking that earthquakes, even largest ones, are smaller than man made nuclear bombs.
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a lower estimated magnitude (as they say). I'll take another look through the other more recent (since Stein & Okal) papers.
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It provided better context that addresses some of the points in above discussion, but much of the text was since removed. --
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It mentions USGS, and that is credible source, i just can't find anything more than that, it needs original study/statement.
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also assumes Mw 9.2 and estimated 7.2 Ă— 10 Nm, which they claim is similar to Park et al. (2005) and Ammon et al. (2005).
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Also note a 2014 study I incorporated which gives a figure of 172,761 for Indonesia, higher than the usual number given.
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popular figure nowadays, but plenty of studies refer to the 229,866 given by the UN Envoy, though their website is gone.
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That is link from the article, link 48 as a source for that 26MT, it is about certain moment, not the whole event.
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and Negative parts of the tsunami wave. The waterline receded because the negative part of the wave hit it first.
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The comparison of energy released to that of atomic bombs is unreferenced, probably an original comparison by
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And that 1.1*10^17J is to my understanding from one short moment in the event, it's not the whole earthquake.
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And that 1.1*10^17J is to my understanding from one short moment in the event, it's not the whole earthquake.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100404013939/http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2004/eq_041226/neic_slav_e.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100404013939/http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2004/eq_041226/neic_slav_e.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100404013939/http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2004/eq_041226/neic_slav_e.html
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But energy release magnitude should not be 8.5 in a eartquake that was estimated to be 9.3 in richter scale.
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i get this: ~26266869 Megatons of TNT for the seismic moment (WHAT?), and ~1344 MT for the radiated energy.
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Energy release: according to Microsoft CoPilot. source is US Geological Survey. (did not give link to it).
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Is that difficult to understand? You want it on paper? Do you want me to print it and sign it "scientist"?
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That calculator does use what scientist use, or that "scientist" just has some word salad printed for you.
3169: 3133: 3107: 3072: 3054: 3031: 2991: 2969: 2956:'s estimate at 1.4Ă—10 Joules is not very far from Kanamori's estimate. 33 MT seems a reasonable estimate. 2933: 2924:
There should be interest to find that original statement from USGS, that's why i started this discussion.
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Energy should be calculated from those estimates of 9.2 or 9.3 in richter scale, momentum and radiated.
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Energy should be calculated from those estimates of 9.2 or 9.3 in richter scale, momentum and radiated.
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for GA status; improve citations or footnotes and remove excessive or inappropriate external links from
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That 33 MT radiated might mean something else, not total energy but "radiated", what ever that means.
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earthquake compares previous studies and most give 9.1, including itself, so that has been revised.
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My idea in this is, to think how someone who is not an expert on these things read the information.
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My idea in this is, to think how someone who is not an expert on these things read the information.
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https://www.worldvision.org/disaster-relief-news-stories/2004-indian-ocean-earthquake-tsunami-facts
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I'm not seeing a 25 megaton figure in the article. Can you point to where exactly you're looking,
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Common sense tells that 33 Megatons is not enough to cause 1000 kilometer rupture in earth crust.
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to ask whether it is appropriate, as it's a unit used for explosions, which earthquakes are not.
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does NOT to contain any scientific papers about this event, it contains data from single moment.
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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Erroneus information should be removed without having some scientific study to replace it.
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Ichinose, Gene; Somerville, Paul; Thio, Hong Kie; Graves, Robert; O'Connell, Dan (2007).
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Throwing them "26Mt" and saying on top of that "less than Tsar bomb" is not the answer.
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Throwing them "26Mt" and saying on top of that "less than Tsar bomb" is not the answer.
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It is in webarchive, it cannot be found from original site, at least i did not find it.
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M8.5 and 9.5 were derived using different calibration methods and different signals ...
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David M. Green (January 16, 2005). "Tsunami info: A world of links". Chicago Sun-Times.
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Go and use calculators to find out radiated energy of a 9.1-9.3 magnitude earthquake.
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Gopinathan, D.; Venugopal, M.; Roy, D.; Rajendran, K.; Guillas, S.; Dias, F. (2017).
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The most recent papers that set out to estimate magnitude (amongst other things) are
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Proceedings of the Royal Society A: Mathematical, Physical and Engineering Sciences
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done (and thus energy) by this quake, the vast majority underground, measured by M
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If rest of you think it's still ok to say 26MT for the radiated energy, so be it
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Maybe we are not in that "1.1 Gigatons", but not far from it, 16 times 26 is 416.
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and make sure each article on the English Knowledge (XXG) has one in Burmese also
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Wiki article does say 9.2-9.3 in magnitude, so that 26MT from 8.5 is inaccurate.
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that support the change you want to be made. YouTube is not a reliable source.
3695:. National Earthquake Information Center, US Geological Survey. Archived from 3632:
Would 26MT nuke cause tsunami like this was? No, it would not, not even close.
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Would 26MT nuke cause tsunami like this was? No, it would not, not even close.
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I don't believe this discussion is worth going further with this poor basis.
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It's the rupture that generates the energy release, not the other way round.
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The total seismic moment varies by a large margin as well. Assuming Mw 9.2,
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I based it off the revised magnitudes in the most recent studies, such as
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It is calculation that is done from data that is gathered from the event.
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Just so we can see what's being discussed, here's the relevant passage:
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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add ISBNs and remove excessive or inappropriate external links from
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Because keying in numbers by yourself and reporting the figures is
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on Burmese subjects and articles on smaller towns and villages
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So wiki article is little inconsistent on this in my opinion.
2593:) 21:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC) And the USGS use 9.1 referring to 1373:
Category:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in the oceans
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Facts from this article were featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
3443:) by the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake was estimated at 1.1 3198:
Or does that calculator give wrong result in your opinion?
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By the way, the passage when first added read like this:
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This article appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s Main Page as
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
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B-Class Indian geography articles of High-importance
2597:, although confusingly they give M9.2 in the paper. 1199:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 1089:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 980:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 875:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 766:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 516:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 427:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 298:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3201:And last: What kind of a scientific paper this is? 185: 2075:Add duration of earthquake if is possible 10 years 3794:Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles in History 44:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3849:Top-importance WikiProject Earthquakes articles 3192:It says "energy release" and "radiated energy". 3009:https://www.omnicalculator.com/other/earthquake 441:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Disaster management 4009:Knowledge (XXG) pages referenced by the press 2449:that support the change you want to be made. 2205:This page has archives. Sections older than 8: 3564:times that of Hiroshima), far more than the 3470:, the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated. 3432:The energy released on the Earth's surface ( 3095:I think this is the most i can come up with. 3086:In this calculator for 9.3 Richter scale EQ 3036:That USGS source uses an "energy magnitude" 2806:Journal of Geophysical Research: Solid Earth 2272:Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2024 3839:Mid-importance Disaster management articles 2372:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXxscnWG8QA 2585:keeping a bigger range than just 9.2–9.3. 1843: 1800: 1684:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 1638: 1529: 1300:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 1254: 1145: 1035: 926: 821: 712: 575: 478: 389: 238: 3879:High-importance Indian geography articles 3869:B-Class India articles of High-importance 3784:Knowledge (XXG) vital articles in History 3474:There are a few points worth looking at: 3038: 2944:How do you interpret the 33 MT then. The 2763: 2382:Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2024 3989:Knowledge (XXG) former featured articles 3844:B-Class WikiProject Earthquakes articles 3719:"USGS:Measuring the size of earthquakes" 2038:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami 1812:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami 1578:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami 444:Template:WikiProject Disaster management 36:2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami 3684: 2724: 2418:add to « In Popular Culture section ». 2364: 1756:offices, ministries and politicians of 1695:offices, ministries and politicians of 1531: 1147: 1037: 928: 823: 714: 577: 538:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Earthquakes 480: 391: 240: 199: 4004:Knowledge (XXG) pages with to-do lists 3779:Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles 3088:https://earthalabama.com/energy.html#/ 2778: 2424:2603:7000:6401:18AD:A979:D45B:AE7:E0F1 2215:when more than 5 sections are present. 3889:WikiProject Indian geography articles 3439:, the energy magnitude, which is the 1599:. All interested editors are welcome. 1102:. All interested editors are welcome. 889:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Sri Lanka 784:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Indonesia 7: 3834:B-Class Disaster management articles 3755:USGS, Harvard Moment Tensor Solution 3693:"USGS Energy and Broadband Solution" 2878:radiated energy from this earthquake 1314:, create a comprehensive article on 1193:This article is within the scope of 1108:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Thailand 1083:This article is within the scope of 998:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Malaysia 974:This article is within the scope of 869:This article is within the scope of 760:This article is within the scope of 629:This article is within the scope of 510:This article is within the scope of 421:This article is within the scope of 292:This article is within the scope of 3080:An amateur mistakes here and there. 2996:It's 26MT, made little error there. 1732:add photos of incumbent politicians 1605:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Myanmar 1095:Counteracting systematic bias group 34:for discussing improvements to the 3919:High-importance Sri Lanka articles 3904:High-importance Indonesia articles 3819:Mid-importance Madagascar articles 3744:USGS Energy and Broadband Solution 3022:1.1 GT would be 9.5 magnitude EQ. 1221:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Oceans 312:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Africa 25: 3934:High-importance Malaysia articles 3874:B-Class Indian geography articles 3799:B-Class vital articles in History 3492:(Edit: I've added a redirect for 3373:Thank you all for your patience. 2999:Link next to that 26MT from Wiki 2209:may be automatically archived by 2104:mentioned by a media organization 1592:Counteracting systemic bias group 651:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject India 61:New to Knowledge (XXG)? 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Set the 2302:to reactivate your request. 2290:has been answered. Set the 1586:, a project to improve all 1224:Template:WikiProject Oceans 315:Template:WikiProject Africa 4025: 3914:B-Class Sri Lanka articles 3899:B-Class Indonesia articles 3894:WikiProject India articles 3568:in 2005 at 1.08 X 10^20 J. 3516:The total energy released 2785:: CS1 maint: PMC format ( 2354:19:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC) 2319:22:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC) 1917:Featured article candidate 1898:Featured article candidate 1879:Featured article candidate 1631:project's importance scale 1386:Oceanography stub articles 1247:project's importance scale 1134:project's importance scale 1024:project's importance scale 915:project's importance scale 810:project's importance scale 677:project's importance scale 654:Template:WikiProject India 564:project's importance scale 467:project's importance scale 338:project's importance scale 3944:B-Class Thailand articles 3929:B-Class Malaysia articles 2006: 1964: 1846: 1842: 1822:) and why it was removed. 1637: 1624: 1549: 1253: 1240: 1165: 1127: 1055: 1017: 946: 908: 841: 803: 732: 692: 670: 601: 557: 498: 460: 409: 353: 331: 264: 237: 91:Be welcoming to newcomers 3974:B-Class Myanmar articles 3544:, which was 4.0 X 10^30 3532:, but less than that of 3466:, but less than that of 3231:Yoshimoto & Yamanaka 2710:11:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC) 2678:08:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC) 2655:21:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2641:21:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2627:21:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2607:21:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2563:20:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2545:20:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2530:20:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2500:17:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 2480:12:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 1836:Today's featured article 1418:Draft:Terrance (octopus) 1334:Draft:Terrance (octopus) 3959:B-Class Oceans articles 3804:B-Class Africa articles 2694:Okal & Stein (2009) 2459:13:23, 4 May 2024 (UTC) 2432:04:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC) 2078:Add memorials worldwide 2009:Former featured article 1936:Featured article review 1816:former featured article 1774:Myanmar Knowledge (XXG) 1580:is within the scope of 986:Malaysia-related topics 513:WikiProject Earthquakes 3859:B-Class India articles 3774:B-Class vital articles 3570: 3472: 2750:10.1098/rspa.2017.0353 2212:Lowercase sigmabot III 2102:This article has been 1820:the nomination archive 1744:Category:Myanmar stubs 1312:List of oceanographers 689: 373:WikiProject Madagascar 350: 86:avoid personal attacks 3514: 3430: 3261:Tanioka et al. 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