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just agreed with you at lede's are not tabloid headlines. It's one reason detached from the next where you two are concerned. First of all, broadsheet papers also call killings terrorist attacks. Secondly, how I phrased it is not editorialising. Thirdly, I've shown you that other articles deploy that method. It's not OTHERCONTENT because it is the very same example redux. Unless you can prove it is right in one place but not the other, then you've got no argument, not just on othercontent but on all arguments given so far. At the moment, I am reading opposition, but what is your proposal for how we word it? And what is
AndytheGrump's proposal? --
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perpetrated it. There's a limit to the pretense of detached mathematical neutrality that's palatable among human beings. Anything else is hypocrisy and hidden rehabilitation of monsters. That is A) so obvious and B) so easy to understand from my edit summary, that it makes this "discussion" here painful. I don't intend to continue it, so thanks for your understanding.
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No. You're digressing now. We all know it was an act of terrorism. AndyTheGrump claims that changes need consensus. Nobody denies it was terrorism. He originally removed it because it was "badly written" which I fixed. Now he is threatening the edit warring route because there are two of you, and he
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My proposal is that we leave the lede as it was. It does what a lede is supposed to do - summarise the remainder of the article. It tells the readers what happened. It explains what motivated the killers. Our readers are quite capable of deciding for themselves whether they wish to use a particular
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The warrant presented in the press for the focus on
Choudary is the role he played through preaching – Adebolajo was known to listen to Choudary’s speeches and was pictured together with him at a protest. In addition, it is reported that Choudary has been linked to another person, Richard Dart, who
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I've explained in the edit summary: "For 1 full second I was afraid there had been 2 additional victims. That second is far too much." A formulation along the lines of "Casualties: 1 dead, 2 injured" creates an equivalent between the victim of the terror attack and the psychopatic barbarians who
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Please do not edit your posts after they have been responded to - it makes following the discussion difficult. And nobody is disputing that Rigby was murdered - it says so in the article title. Likewise, the article makes it entirely clear what the motivation for the attack was. The question is
1935:'Justice 4 all people', the content of Knowledge articles is arrived at by consensus, in accord with policies and guidelines that contributors have collectively compiled over many years. Nobody gets to say 'end of' here. Explain why you think the change was necessary.
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policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
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They were
Islamists. The body of the article discusses this plenty of times! I have included the word "Islamists" in the introduction now because there are ENOUGH sources in this article. Thank you.~ .
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word to describe the act. 'Terrorism' isn't an explanation for anything much, without further explanation - and if things are properly explained, the word itself generally becomes unnecessary.
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It's a rant and gives some idea of what was going through
Michael Adebolajo's head at the time. It's not intended to be a platform for his views. I'm not keen on removing this entirely per
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argument, which ultimately proves very little. As Andy said, Knowledge articles are not tabloid headlines and the previous wording is simpler and better. I'm also concerned about the
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Like I said over on your user talk. If you would like something to be included in an article, you will need to include a citation to a reliable source to support that additional per
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Knowledge is not a tabloid newspaper, and there seems to be an element of soapboxing here. The article makes it adequately clear that Rigby was killed by
Islamist extremists.--
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I insist that it was not. Putting beasts like this (cleaver, decapitation attempt?!) on the same level as the victim is madness, in the best of scenarios.
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In the 'Attack' section, there was a 198 word quote from
Michael Adebolajo giving his rationale for committing murder. I suggest that gave
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because they were IRA attacks and occurred during the
Troubles. The fact that they were in Woolwich isn't really an issue.--
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entirely, but I realise others might disagree so I'm opening this section up for discussion. ›
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The Guardian has since been cited since I posted that previous message. I have no issues now.
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is too tangential - the only similarity is that they were both terrorist murders in
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Thanks Ritchie. If I remember correctly, Islamist is an Islamic Terrorist.
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A news item involving Murder of Lee Rigby was featured on Knowledge's
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I removed "end of", but had expanded my statement. See source. --
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is more related, because it was also aimed at British soldiers.
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Yup. The lede of a Knowledge article is not a tabloid headline.
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planned to undertake a terrorist attack on British soldiers.
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whether your preferred wording is appropriate in the lede.
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I couldn't see anything wrong with the previous wording.--
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weight to his views and it should not be there. I've
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30:This is the
2026:WP:USERNAME
1846:The killing
1769:Jim Michael
1187:Structure:
340:In the news
275:written in
159:free images
42:not a forum
2299:Categories
2151:Ritchie333
2020:This is a
1797:removed it
1730:WP:SEEALSO
1452:discussion
365:While the
1726:this edit
1457:Terrorism
1448:terrorism
1420:Terrorism
493:Biography
433:Biography
352:Knowledge
334:Main Page
286:travelled
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2280:Arminden
2242:Arminden
1877:Source:
1761:Woolwich
1148:criteria
1075:European
438:Military
298:artefact
197:Archives
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2180:TLJ7863
2126:TLJ7863
2028:here.--
1694:on the
1589:on the
1484:on the
1395:on the
1368:Nigeria
1359:Nigeria
1315:Nigeria
1071:British
1041:on the
916:on the
805:on the
700:on the
611:on the
404:B-class
336:in the
302:analyse
294:defence
234:30Â days
165:WPÂ refs
153:scholar
2122:WP:BLP
1803:Mortee
1793:boldly
1763:. The
1014:London
1005:London
961:London
410:scale.
290:centre
282:colour
137:Google
2118:WP:RS
1789:undue
1562:2010s
1553:2010s
1509:2010s
889:Islam
880:Islam
830:Islam
673:Death
664:Death
636:Death
202:Index
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
2284:talk
2260:♦Ian
2246:talk
2184:talk
2170:talk
2130:talk
2120:and
2107:talk
2078:talk
2062:talk
2033:♦Ian
2010:talk
1984:talk
1956:talk
1941:talk
1905:♦Ian
1890:talk
1858:talk
1826:♦Ian
1808:talk
1773:talk
1755:The
1737:♦Ian
482:and
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1724:Re
1686:Low
1581:Low
1476:Mid
1387:Low
1033:Mid
908:Low
797:Low
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187:TWL
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