1256:
appropriate and not an actual violation of
Knowledge. It simply means some of us spend the time to correct problems instead of cause more. It means checking around a bit for supportive cites and linking names/places/events to related articles. Not being lazy and just removing it or claiming it's "coat racking". Many articles include guests and years activities occurred (listed or in a paragraph), and with them being sourced and related to the article, I personally feel the notices/warnings at the beginning of this article were done in spite and revenge per the previous discussion. I could care less who is listed, I am simply playing devil's advocate for an editor who made the good faith contribution, by fixing the problems and trying to work with others to resolve a dispute, which is more than I can say for others who are causing conflict and being passive-aggressive. There is no reason it needs to be removed nor attention drawn to it. The article does not read like an advertisement. There were no problems with it until a specific editor was upset his/her reverts were not justified. It is a neutral "black-and-white" contribution that seems to be upsetting someone unrelated/unfamiliar with the topic, now bent on harassment. Instead of improving the content, the editor has simply removed it and been disruptive. I do not feel the templates are necessary/warranted, yet it does not change the fact that just because those who "flipped the switch" are mostly celebrities (note: some are civil service workers and military or were disadvantaged children in the past), doesn't mean someone is promoting them. It's a completely false accusation, and would mean all other articles that mention Obama (Stevie Wonder and Andy Griffith articles for example) or another celebrity in another article that corresponds with the topic, should also be removed. This is a petty issue that is being taken out of control and context (it's common for added information to be challenged but it is relevant in this case). As an encyclopedia, listing participants is a part of history about the event/ceremony and relative since some of those listed are from the community. The people mentioned pertain to the topic and does not deviate from it. Please give your mature, verifiable, unbiased/neutral input based on facts and actual proof. You can expand the list in fact, so that it's a complete table/list such as other articles with notable content. I encourage you not accuse, threaten or assume something untrue about good faith edits, nor revert without proper dispute/consensus resolution. Thank you very much! :)
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upset and make personal attacks. You are just bent on having it removed and being right. You are not part of the solution, you are being a part of the problem. The names are listed, they are not "glorified", "advertised" or "promoted". They are simply individuals who were in attendance. If you care about your stand on specific policies, you'd go fix all the ones that are a violation on other articles instead of wasting out time here. For some reason you are only concerned with this one. Why is that? (rhetorical question) You are not giving constructive input about fixing it or making suggestions in an effort to compromise. Coat racking is not a violation and is not what is happening in this article. Get over it. Do some research and find other people you'd rather list (less significant if you wish). Those added are only some who participated. I guess the armed forces and other non-celebrities mentioned are being "marketed" too? I didn't even make the initial contribution, but keep it up and I may just make an entire article/section of all those who were at the Plaza
Lighting Ceremony over the entire 84 years (provided I can find them all online or via a book). As long as it's verifiable and relevant to the topic, it's allowed. No one is being "showboated" nor is there any "peacocking". The content was there uncontested until I linked it to related articles and made other fixes. I think it's safe to say we can move on from here, as it's encyclopedia-worthy/notable, and you and I disagree. I'm not sure what your beef is, but anyone who contributes to a topic they are familiar with must be in violation according to you, huh? ;) P.s. If I typed: "Obama and Reagan both liked the Plaza Lights. The mayor of New York is jealous that the Plaza Ceremony is better than the Rockefeller celebration. Kansas City is such a cool place because it has fun stuff to do and lots of celebrities are from the city and/or visit the city." then that would not be appropriate. That would be coat racking'ish.
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mentioned above). And even if it doesn't, that is not Banner's argument. It was accused of "coat racking" and Banner was nearing a three-revert violation. I'm not sure who 74/99 is, but the original editor may have decided to only mention certain individuals, yet as is I trimmed it down from what it was to just list the people, not who they are (actor, player, etc.) even though anyone who can be verified could be added. I guarantee if someone like a president showed up or some event happened of significance, that would be added. Why can't local celebrities participating in the event like other articles mention not be included? It is not written to promote them. You are both giving different reasons for not keeping it. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't harm the article either. So even with you agreeing with Banner, that is not a consensus yet. But thanks for your input, however, it's not a "reliable" factor for removing it to be honest. If anything, Banner is guilty of "conflict of interest" and caused a possible edit war. Why is this even a discussion? P.s. My main problem was how this, like many other chronic revert editors, was handled by Banner. Just undoing something never solves a problem and only escalates frustration on
Knowledge.
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culture, media, etc. are doing the same thing. That is a weak argument. If I was promoting something, it would be regarding advertisements or websites, companies, etc. I am not promoting those people, I am not attached to any of them. I am being neutral. I simply fixed the original editor's contribution (linked to related articles and summarized the content instead of listing it). Your personal opinions about me and my edits are not appreciated and I resent you assuming i'm promoting the plaza. I don't live there nor was I attending it. You are clearly in violation and need to just end it. I will not participate in an argument with you about this, and you can not continue to take it upon yourself to revert edits based on what you want. It is not even a "coat rack" violation, even though that's not an official rule. Knock it off already... If you knew about my edits, you'd know i'm far from biased.
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better suit the topic), and you've only reverted and "pointed your finger". It is a lie that i'm promoting/marketing. Why would I want to continue discussing it with you? Let others give input. We know where you stand and you know my view on it, there is nothing more you and I need to talk about. The original editor and myself feel it's okay to leave. You do not. Until others contribute responsibly and maturely, there is no reason to continue with one another about the matter. I've tried to nicely communicate with you even though you have your mind made up that I have ill motives for including it, which is not the case. It has been you who has been "aggressive" in tone and action. I simply am not participating in any further discussions with you specifically since we disagree. Have a good day/night!
741:, have image galleries whether about events or scenic places. I feel this removal was done in spite based on disagreements below. Regardless, it is not my interest to get my way or keep anything that is not in line with Knowledge standards, but it's the principal of the matter that it is not productive/constructive nor a clear violation. Anyone else, other than those already involved, who can give their input so a consensus can be obtained? Thank you! P.s. I notice when I mention other articles with similar content, they are not fixed/corrected/removed, only this one is a priority for some reason. What's the real motive? If you follow me only to vandalize my contributions, do not give your input. (hint)
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me a "warning". It's a standard message that was not necessary. The bold has been removed. I did not change/alter your actual message. You are beating a dead horse here. This is about you reverting a good faith edit twice and not properly handling disputes, reverts and consensus. Putting a ! after 'thanks' or 'best of luck' does not mean I have a bad tone. I'm being nice (neutral) just like my edits are. You are the one blaming me for what you've been guilty of. Just stop already, we both gave our input and defended our actions, now let others participate if they want (either for or against it being included which I think it should be since it's not a violation and is common in many articles).
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doing here and not really concerned with reliability/verifiability, just having it not included or looking a certain way. I did not cause an edit war. I reverted it once to give Banner a chance to discuss first. After his second revert and ignoring the discussion/resolution/consensus process, I included it with revisions/edits (not reverted). Now that i'm following procedures, editors bandwagon? Ugh, I wish people did some work besides just going around slopping up people's hard work on here incorrectly. The content needs to be replaced, that is the policy. You leave it first, then come to a resolution before removing it. You both know better, i'm not some stupid newbie IP user.
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also not on a third revert, that would be you and Banner. You are also in violation of consensus/dispute resolution. Are you even reading this????? THEY DID NOT JUST VISIT! THEY PARTICIPATED! What are you not understanding? Are you doing this on purpose? Have you read the actual text? Have you checked even ONE source? "I will review in a few hours!"? I will exit this topic and resign from this IP as it's clear you're stalking me for some reason. You're way too weird for me... Bye! P.s. check the articles I gave an example and remove the content on them. Yeah right, my point made. Where there is you and a few others, there must always be trouble.
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Thanksgiving Day Parade should also be removed as an example. Be consistent, you are not supposed to be "right" or get your way. This is not a violation, the reasons given for not keeping it do not hold water and are self-serving. I will take this to a discussion board if necessary, as a matter of principle. When someone comes along and challenges editors to contribute/assit and not just revert, users/editors should not be bullied into giving up. People can get their feelings/egos hurt and remove content based on "power-tripping", but that is not appropriate on
Knowledge. Follow policy, have some integrity and be cooperative. Thanks!
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the Rise of
Residential Private Government (Yale University Press, 1996). Robert Pearson and Brad Pearson, The J. C. Nichols Chronicle: The Authorized Story of the Man and His Company, 1880–1994 (Lawrence, Kansas: University Press of Kansas). Sherry Lamb Shirmer, A City Divided: The Racial Landscape of Kansas City, 1900-1960. William S. Worley, J. C. Nichols and the Shaping of Kansas City: Innovation in Planned Residential Communities (Columbia, Missouri: University of Missouri Press, 1990). Questioning the factual accuracy of Knowledge articles CAN be quite easy for laypersons unfamiliar with the nuances of the topic.
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Plaza site and KC.com, etc. All reliable. They are not people mentioned because they are from the city or visited, they were a part of the ceremony. You both seem to just see it as something insignificant, but if you see the big picture and take the time to research, you'll see that these presenters were as much a part of the ceremony as the lights/fireworks/concerts/switch. And to remove the pictures now (although I could care less again but will play devil's advocate) after being on the article for years, means you should remove them on others such as:
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It seems you're not familiar with the topic that well. Before you make the final decision based on your preference, allow time for a proper resolution and consensus. Please refrain from reverting good faith contributions (by the original editor as well as my "fixes" to it). It's not like all 84+ are mentioned for each year and "flipping the switch" is as much a part of the ceremony. If a box format is required, then that can be created for each year. Other articles mention contributions, films, guests, etc. with years as well (for example, see
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since they participated in the event. Your example is not even close to the same thing. You and Banner are both making cases that do not exist. The article isn't making the same connection as your McD/JayZ comment. That is very different. If someone guest-starred on a show, they are included within an article. The ceremony is a televised event and in some cases celebrities have been involved with the festivities, just like during holiday parades that mention notable appearances.
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no interest in undoing your edits or stopping your contributions, I merely edited here because I agree with
Banners edit, but not the COI/Coatrack part. Now if you would be so kind as explain why you think that a note of "Flip Switchers" are notable to include I would be interested in hearing that, for me that's like saying this McDonalds is notable because JAYZ and these people go there.
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I have again reverted this as it does not explain why this is significant and appears to be a random listing of visitors and rather spammy. You are on the 3rd revert on this but if you can write something other then a list of why this is significant please revert and reference this section correctly,
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P.S. Examples of spam is not having credible sources (publications and news sources are used) or stating "Emmy Award winner..." or "Grammy winner" or "Three time all-star", etc. (which some of the cites mention but I did not). I didn't even call them entertainers which is what many of them did at the
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Nice that you throw around so many policies and fail to see that what you are doing is plain promotion and advertising by creating a coat rack. A complete unencyclopaedic event is used to name as many celebrities as people can hire, to promote the plaza. And second: every article is judged on its own
890:
What are you even talking about? The highlighted sentence? That was in error, and it was about my response regarding your opinion. Please do not threaten me over something you are clearly trying to get your way about. Your message on my talk page was not warranted either, nothing has been done wrong.
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Your response is only/simply your opinion and not based on an actual
Knowledge guidelines (coatrack does not apply here nor is a "rule"), therefore you should not be reverting multiple times. Cherry-picking just to omit something which is not "showboating" or an actual violation, is also not allowed.
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It really isn't a "long list". It's been revised. These such lists also exist throughout
Knowledge articles regarding hosts, presenters, episodes, attendees, etc. etc. I can give examples if you're unaware. It is relevant to the context. It isn't "wrong" nor really hurting anything as a brief summary
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The following should be replaced (three reverts) until the discussion/dispute is resolved. Removing it until is a violation and is disruptive or vandalism. A concensus has not been reached and according to the talk page, it is reliable/verifiable. If this is "wrong" then the presenters at the Macy's
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3. You gave your input, but that does not entitle you to go removing a lot of content off the article. You and Banner are not removing identical issues on articles I provided, why hung up on this one and with me? It's very shady/creepy to be honest. Maybe you could go pick on another article, but my
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Ok, I have no problems with that at all, we're all entitled to our opinions. Like I told you before on previous IP's you've used the only interest I have is the behaviors so I plan on leaving you alone as much as possible because it makes both of our lives easier. Contrary to what you believe I have
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I disagree, I think it actually does enhance it and gives it more credibility and notability. Plus, from what I understand, the show airs locally as a program each year. Like any show with episodes over the years, mentioning a few guests does enhance the article (as is done in other articles, some I
1297:
Yeah, well that is not what is being done in this case. FYI: You need to treat IP users with respect and not assume they don't know as much as you. Maybe you just thought you could revert it and nothing would be done, but when someone actually stands by their work and challenges you then you get all
969:
Please give it a rest already. I am not hiding anything. I removed your nonsense on my talk page since it did not apply. If I highlighted a sentence you typed that was an opinion, then I apologize. It's not a big deal. Stop making it something it isn't. This is extremely juvenile. You did not leave
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Priority questions CAN be complicated to resolve, but the Counry Club Plaza is widely regarded (by both laypersons and SCHOLARS) as the first shopping center specifically designed to accomodate the automobile. See, e.g., the following sources: Evan McKenzie, Privatopia: Homeowner
Associations and
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You don't get to decide that it's spammy or insignificant. It's not a random listing, they were involved in the ceremony. You are not reading anything. Not sure who you think you are, but it's clear you came to cause problems and not help. I will take this up with a resolution board, not you. I am
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As to your question of stalking, no I am not stalking you but I do have several pages you have edited under my watchlist, and I am observing those to verify problematic editing such as personal attacks and other behaviors didn't continue. I have chosen not to engage you because your edits have not
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2. I have overly explained and sourced the info. You have to take the time to read this talk page and edit summaries. That's just the problem here, i'm doing the work. No one else is. Just looking at it and deciding to revert because you feel like it is not appropriate. At any rate, it's relevant
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I think that calling it a coatrack may have been off base although I also believe it looks spammy, but it takes two to edit war so even then just open a request for comment you should be ok. When I removed it I didn't see sources, I may have missed them. I just think that the article is trying to
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I'm curious how you got involved in this topic? Are you "stalking" me perhaps? And you shouldn't have reverted my edit AGAIN, as that is a violation. The discussion is for resolving the dispute. Just because you agree, is not a consensus. So far two agree to keep and two do not. Even if three do,
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You are attacking me as an editor and not giving the benefit of the doubt. I am not promoting anything, that is absurd. I did not make the original contribution, I am only enforcing its inclusion. If what you are accusing me of is true, then all articles listing participants, years, projects, pop
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articles or game show articles that list winners/years). Intros of articles that list albums or movies with years in a "listed" sentence are allowed, as this should be as well since the guests pertain to the topic/event and is brief. Your reverts are not constructive. It's an event like a show or
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1. have no idea what you're talking about re: IPs and you shouldn't have a clouded judgment about me or any past edits/editors in general, as it appears you're assuming i'm someone else and letting it affect the task at hand. I could go look at your edits and cause you grief too, as you're not a
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even though the "don'ts" doesn't mention not having galleries at the end of the text. Not sure why this is a problem all the sudden, but your arguments are not applicable. "It looks spammy" and "I may have missed them" and "may have been there" tells me you both really aren't sure of what you're
1403:
Wow, I was hoping I could "respect" your input but find out you (like most others) didn't even check sources. Before I got involved, it was a list of people along with who they were. I removed the "actors" and "ball player" stuff. I added sources of nearly all those listed. They are from CBS, KC
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My tone? You mean defending myself? I'm the one who wanted a discussion, you are the one who burned that bridge with your reverts and assumptions/accusations. If anything, it is your tone that has prevented us from having a healthy talk. I've compromised, edited the contribution (adjusting it to
596:
Moreover, a quick search of the
Columbia Encyclopedia for "shopping center" reveals the following excerpt for the entry: "The modern shopping center differs from its antecedents—bazaars and marketplaces—in that the shops are usually amalgamated into one encompassing structure. The first modern
1445:
Have no idea what you're talking about, I've never had any problems. Anything in the past was not my fault, I've only provided constructive edits. Issues like this cause issues, not good faith editors like myself. Just because you watch pages that had personal attacks, doesn't mean i'm causing
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claims that "Formal plans for the Country Club Plaza were drawn up in 1922." No date is given for the year construction began. No opening date has been given. The 'date of establishment' in regards to malls should be based on when they first opened. So, when you verify this dispute, please
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At the suggestion of an IP user, I'm opening discussion on the need and relevance of a long list of celebs who have done the honors and turned on the Plaza lights for the year. Hopefully everyone can come to consensus and avoid edit warring. What say you? Keep the list or delete? Reason(s)?
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Like any article someone spends time on, they may or may not have close ties to the topic nor have contributed to the majority of it. That shouldn't matter or be an issue. They may have just come across an article in need of assistance. That shouldn't discredit the fact what is included is
717:
Can someone add another photo of the holiday lighting ceremony in the section about the "season of lights"? ('Layout and use') There are some within the article if you don't have one personally. One shows the shops with lights and another with fireworks as well. Unless you have your own
619:
The "large homes on Ward Parkway" aren't in the Country Club Plaza. The Plaza's boundaries end at 51st street (see KC's registered neighborhood map at KCMO.org). Those homes are in Sunset Hill. That edit should not have been reversed. I have changed the article back accordingly.
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of notable presenters, many from the area. I don't see that it's a big deal and it has been cited and the section fixed from it's original state. This seems to be a petty issue and isn't responsible to consider reverting. Thanks for your attention to the matter nonetheless.
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I don't live near KC, and don't currently have any personal photos of the Plaza, even though I've been there. If somebody has public domain photos of the Plaza they could post, it would help the article immensely. More and better verbiage would be nice, too. Thanks.
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event, I simply called them presenters/guests/hosts, etc. Seems to be a motive to sabotage/suppress this acceptable information for some reason (either I take it personal or it is replaced since there is no clear violation, some editor's personal preferences aside).
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shopping center, the Country Club Plaza, opened in Kansas City, Mo., in 1922 . . . See H. MacKeith, The History and Conservation of Shopping Arcades (1986); J. Garreau, Edge City: Life on the New Frontier (1991); M. Sorkin, ed., Variations on a Theme Park (1992)."
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Given that Sunset Hill was one subdivision in J.C. Nichols' associated Country Club District (for which it was named, in case it isn't clear to the above writer), it's relevant to include reference to the neighborhoods it was originally built to serve.
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film where guests or participants are mentioned. Here are just some examples, including the parade which does the same thing (not to mention many articles that list "in pop culture" or "in media" with a sentence or list of individuals and years):
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See above responses which provides a reference to the Columbia Encyclopedia, as well as citations to scholarly works which establish the Country Club Plaza as the first shopping center. See also the Plaza's page on its history:
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There are better/newer ones available besides just the one within the "gallery" section. Perhaps creating a section just about the Plaza Lights would be warranted too. Just a thought. Thanks and happy holidays!
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advice/suggestion to you both is to help create a happy editing atmosphere and contribute to cooperating with edits, not cause discord among other editors. I'm repeating myself again, take care!
1811:] Undid revision 584694496 by The Banner (talk) updated; counterproductive: this is common in many Knowledge articles and certainly relevant in context; discuss on talk page 1st before reverting
718:(postcard/photo), pics from the Kansas City sites will work. I think it would be nice to have it since it's very popular and scenic. (considered a " world famous living legend" within articles)
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I'm inclined to agree with Banner that is indeed a list that does very little to enhance the article. I can also tell Banner that 74/99 is not a conflict of interest editor for this subject.
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This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (July
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that is not an overwhelming consensus. You are doing what Banner did. Please replace it until it is resolved or "reduce" the list somewhat. You edit summary reason is not legit. Thanks!
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Again, your opinion. I'm not pushing anything. For you to accuse me of that and think that makes me wonder about your motives. How about you please stop being disruptive? Best of luck!
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perfect person. So let's move past that since you're obviously confused. This is not the place to even bring up such statements. Honestly, it's very unprofessional of you.
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Images were recently removed but do not fall under the category of "don'ts" according to Knowledge (gallery at the end of the article). Many articles, one in particular is
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St. John is no longer on the plaza also TIVOL (a family owned and operated 110 year old business) should definitely be included on this list of current high-end tenants.
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The relevance of flipping the switch of Christmas lighting is absolutely zero. It is a nice marketing moment for the plaza but for an encyclopaedia it is meaningless.
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Added current cite for correct date. All above sources are "dead/expired" and therefore not verifiable. Developed/designed in 1922 according to Country Club website
1815:] replaced good faith contribution with editing and responded on the talk pages for the prior editor to properly handle dispute resolutions and avoid three reverts)
583:, but a case can often be made for being "first" by adding enough qualifying adjectives. It is best to share the credit in cases that are less than clear-cut. --
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It doesn't matter as I was only fixing a problem that existed, and in the process two other editors made it worse. I'm not so proud that I have to get my way.
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I personally will not consider that an edit war or violation of 3rr as it will likely be better explained. I will review in a few hours.
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and perhaps officially opened in 1923 from what I've researched and see sourced further in the article. Thank you...
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Do not, I repeat, do not change anything on my edits. That is totally unconstructive and can easily lead to blocks.
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This article may require copy editing for coat rack of celebrities "flipping the switch". (December 2013)
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You are improperly reverting and i'd encourage you to just drop this matter before it gets worse. Thanks!
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I'd like to help you remember your edits so there is no confusion about why I said you were at 3 reverts.
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A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. (December 2013)
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at the Kansas City library, the first building in the Plaza development was completed in early 1923.
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This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
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I live about 40 minutes away from the Plaza. I'll take some pictures next time I'm down that way.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
381:. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120310002807/http://www.kcpl.com/community/commun_plazalights.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120213111708/http://retailtrafficmag.com/mag/retail_nichols_folly/
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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trouble. I will also keep you in mind though when checking articles. Thanks for the heads up.
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Priority questions can be complicated to resolve. The Market Square shopping center in
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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http://www.kansascity.com/2010/11/25/2471885/thousands-on-the-plaza-for-annual.html
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What you did was deliberately editing my text. That is a plain nono. End of story.
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The article claims that Country Club Plaza was established in 1922, however the
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http://www.kansascity.com/2010/11/23/2465546/lights-fireworks-and-music-kc.html
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This article appears to be written like an advertisement. (December 2013)
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And a nice try to hide that warning. Won't work in the long run, though.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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Ow, your overly aggressive tone is not very helpful in a discussion.
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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piggyback notability because celebrities may have been there.
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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opened in 1916, was also planned around the automobile
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Start-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
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http://www.kcpl.com/community/commun_plazalights.html
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http://retailtrafficmag.com/mag/retail_nichols_folly/
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http://www.countryclubplaza.com/plaza.aspx?pgID=893
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1056:Yeah, great. Please, stop your marketing push.
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1714:Oleta Adams
1702:Buck O’Neil
1678:Trent Green
1599:Matt Besler
1573:74.62.92.20
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645:RedPoptarts
622:65.28.2.218
447:Start‑class
369:WikiProject
273:Kansas City
228:Kansas City
148:free images
31:not a forum
2287:Categories
2243:4.53.38.34
2225:|answered=
2195:Report bug
2075:Report bug
1734:Tom Watson
1674:Kate Spade
1658:Clark Hunt
1650:Bobby Bell
1639:David Cook
1603:Kei Kamara
1593:Rob Riggle
1279:The Banner
1144:The Banner
1060:The Banner
1011:The Banner
927:The Banner
909:The Banner
860:The Banner
796:The Banner
555:Brian Rock
479:dead malls
387:discussion
373:U.S. state
2262:Not done:
2178:this tool
2171:this tool
2058:this tool
2051:this tool
1950:this tool
1943:this tool
1694:Paul Rudd
764:Sector001
607:Isotope23
585:Blainster
88:if needed
71:Be polite
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2184:Cheers.—
2064:Cheers.—
1956:Cheers.—
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56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2270:KRtau16
2098:my edit
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1966::Online
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1850:my edit
1641:(2008),
1629:of the
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529:on the
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199:C-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1864:nobots
205:scale.
126:Google
2229:|ans=
2219:This
1251:2012)
507:Start
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2274:talk
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1899:true
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162:FENS
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2152:RfC
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