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Talk:Commutative diagram

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264: 254: 233: 200: 191: 474:(VPatryshev) It is probably not very smart from to to ask here, but I've been trying to add some entries for toposes, and found that I have no clue how to post images here - you seem to have succeeded; it would be great if you could help me, say, point to a wikipedia how-to page. So far my "ascii art" does not look very convincing. Thank you. 1119: 494:
The word "commutes" here is not being used in the sense of algebra; instead, it refers to a certain property of a diagram: any two composites of arrows with the same source and target in the diagram are equal. In a 2-category, you can replace this strict equivalence by 2-isomorphisms instead, with
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I agree that this statement is somewhat helpful though I full well know the usefulness of equations in algebra: algebra is more or less all about truth-preserving manipulations of equations, such as the multiplicative property of equality. It includes also study of operations which don't perfectly
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I don't know the actual history of the use of "commutative" here, but here's a folk etymology I came up with to remind me that the word goes with this concept. Picture a diagram similar to the PQRS diagram on the article page, but where all the objects are identical, the horizontal arrows are both
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for an isomorphism. You mention algebra papers, and while it's true that I'm not an algebraist, I am a category theorist; and that means that I do see a lot of commutative diagrams. I've changed it to what I consider to be standard, which is an arrow with a
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or ⇒) to denote isomorphisms. So standard, in fact, that algebra papers don't even footnote the usage. It would be nice to mention this usage and use it in the illustrations, for those of us who turn to Knowledge when the paper doesn't make
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There is written that a commutative diagram is a diagram of type J, where J is a poset category. Why not even allow prosets (preorders)? I would call a diagram still commutative if there are isomorphisms in and often enough I walk them "backwards".
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preserve truth-value, such as squaring both sides of an equation; in these cases at least the one equation implies the other. So does this metaphor hold perfectly? Is category theory focused on truth-preserving operations on commutative diagrams?
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a corresponding notion of strict 2-commutativity for 2-arrows. One can replace strict commutativity for 2-arrows by 3-isos, and so on for higher categories. At least this is what I seem to remember from looking at n-categories some time ago. -
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If you've got another example in mind, just do it in ASCII and I'll diagram it. In fact, if you bump across any other examples you'd like to see diagrammed this wayt, just post to my talk page, and I'll do it up - just takes me a second.
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Chaz, could you also produce a diagram with has like two or three squares or triangles? This could serve to illustrate the last point: if all the "small" squares and triangles commute, then the whole diagram is automatically commutative.
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I notice from this example that your images have white backgrounds, rather than being transparent. It's not a big deal, since they'll almost always be on pages with white backgrounds, but they probably ought to be transparent instead. β€”
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equal but the two horizontal morphisms are somehow related (they might be components of the same natural transformation, for example), and similarly for the two vertical morphisms, then the commutativity of the diagram says that
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as in the body of the article. Finally, relax the requirement that there are only two paths and that each is composed of two morphisms, and you've got the categorial definition, that any paths from A to B are equal. -
153: 1124:\begin{array}{lcl} & X & \overset{f}\rightarrow & Z & \\ &g \downarrow &&\downarrow g'\\ &Y & \underset{f'}\rightarrow& W & \\ \end{array} </math: --> 1114:{\displaystyle {\begin{array}{lcl}&X&{\overset {f}{\rightarrow }}&Z&\\&g\downarrow &&\downarrow g'\\&Y&{\underset {f'}{\rightarrow }}&W&\\\end{array}}} 320: 892:
Shouldn't this be called a "commutativity diagram" instead of a "commutative diagram"? The latter seems, by the normal rules of English, to describe a "diagram that is commutative" (i.e.,
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I'm rating this top-priority, because I think it could grow into a very important article on an idea that has become indispensible throughout many branches of mathematics.
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sense. The use of the word "commute" in category theory just generalizes the equation above. First, if the objects (and therefore morphisms)
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Basically what I mean to say is, the sentence should be backed up with a specification of in what form this analogy holds.
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but perhaps here is a better place. Apparently it's fairly standard in commutative diagrams to use arrows with a hook (
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This statement is not very helpful without elaboration for those who don't know what role equations play in algebra.
129: 429:; then the entire diagram commutes. For example, in group theory, when all the sequences are exact, we say that 0 β†’ 125: 789: 935: 1129: 838: 109: 175: 963: 818: 665: 483: 219: 263: 927: 909: 641: 190: 878: 860: 726: 620: 487: 459: 161: 55: 24: 285:
on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1125: 834: 748: 734: 689: 269: 141: 70: 355: 253: 232: 994: 959: 722: 467: 51: 905: 769: 852:"Commutative diagrams play the role in category theory that equations play in algebra." 874: 856: 344: 1141: 1020: 984: 730: 712: 635: 580:. Second, relax the requirement that the morphisms within each pair are related ( 482:
diagrams? They say something about function composition, which is, after all, not
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Last edited at 19:45, 10 June 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 01:54, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
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to the page, feel free to edit to make it flow better (or to add in references)
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or &#x21AA;) to denote monomorphisms, double-headed arrows (
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or &#x21A0;) to denote epimorphisms, and double arrows (
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Then the diagram commutes (in the 7: 946:Add definitions for loops and cycles 365:In this diagram, if the subsequence 275:This article is within the scope of 896:is an adjective modifying the noun 833:How to do diagrams ( 4) in XMLΒ ? -- 675:{\displaystyle \twoheadrightarrow } 218:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 1183:High-priority mathematics articles 14: 985:several discussions in past years 980:Talk:Commutative diagram/Comments 295:Knowledge:WikiProject Mathematics 1153:Knowledge level-5 vital articles 651:{\displaystyle \hookrightarrow } 298:Template:WikiProject Mathematics 262: 252: 231: 198: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 594:may be unrelated, so call them 315:This article has been rated as 1163:C-Class level-5 vital articles 1087: 1063: 1056: 1032: 752: 693: 669: 645: 1: 914:22:57, 19 December 2013 (UTC) 883:21:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC) 843:08:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC) 823:15:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 630:Request for arrow decorations 624:03:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC) 289:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 1178:C-Class mathematics articles 940:10:04, 9 February 2014 (UTC) 865:13:11, 23 January 2010 (UTC) 758:{\displaystyle \Rightarrow } 699:{\displaystyle \Rightarrow } 950:Should add definitions for 725:;-) I've added the changes 602:), and this generalizes to 50:New to Knowledge? 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