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This page relies heavily on
Plutarch; many classicists consider Plutarch unreliable, even though he's one of our only sources. The ancient understanding of history was different from our modern one, and he wasn't exactly trying to stick to Wikipedian standards of objectivity. I agree with Ifly6 that
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Periferal's edits also fix some rather old problems like reliance on an outdated and fictitious "optimates faction", which your revert returned. The fictitious "populares" and "optimates" are a cancer here on
Knowledge (XXG) driven largely by editors' anachronisms and ignorance of Roman republican
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probably should be folded in or deleted; even if not nobody will read or maintain them. The current structure also fails to present things at all chronologically; intermixed in the first section with Cicero's biography is a long digression on his philosophical legacy. Serious work, probably a
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I went through and did some work on the referencing and some rewrites for early life. But that has (fatally) undermined for me any confidence in the article's contents. There were incorrect assertions littered through the first sections: someone added something citing Plut
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a decade too early to make it look like part of some kind of anti-Sullan legal crusade. Nor do the regular references to
Everitt (who evidently from the first chapter does not understand the republican constitution) and Parenti (an ignoramus) build any confidence.
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Some of these I know but I appreciate it! I'm still in my Master's program, but that does mean I have institutional access to these things! And if I do indeed do a rewrite--though
Catullus's page is a higher priority for me--thank you for the offer!
2016:→ omitted. This is also the correct outcome for that passage; cognomina were not always chosen, not always common (Mark Antony; Gaius Marius), and we shouldn't paint them in this character, which is regardless not supported by Plut.
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If you're interested in doing something like that – rewrites can be challenging – I'd be happy to offer feedback. The Oxford
Classical Dictionary Online now has some seriously excellent articles on Cicero:
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This is quite absurd, whether referring to actual books existing in Cicero's time, or books of his time that have survived to our own time. Any decent Loeb collection will disprove it.
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important influence... wrote more than three-quarters of extant Latin literature... it has been said that subsequent prose was either a reaction against or a return to his style
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2188:(2013) may also be helpful. If you already know all these things, my apologies, perhaps they might be useful to someone else reading the talk page.
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Hi, I wanted to ping you to explain a revert I just executed. You left a message reverting
Periferal saying that the edits there were
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I didn't expect to cause an edit war; I really need to just make a new version of the article and hope it's accepted. Agreed on the
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thing. They're useful categories, but Cicero wasn't going around calling himself an optimates as a political party!
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this page needs basically a deep clean; honestly the classics stuff on wikipedia is outdated in general.
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He wrote more than three-quarters of extant Latin literature that is known to have existed in his lifetime
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Well, an IP reverted my revert of your revert of an edit which I think is reasonable, on the grounds
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Something also really ought to be done on the structure of the article. The subpages
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2170:(2013) is also useful, as is the somewhat older Brill volume by analogous title.
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which I definitely think is, if it is to be at all relevant, an exaggeration of
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The standard biographies in English, if I recall correctly, are Tempest
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934:
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868:High-importance
851:
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841:
809:High‑importance
808:
762:
759:
756:
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752:
719:
606:
586:High-importance
569:
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563:
560:
559:
535:
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509:High‑importance
508:
486:
441:High-importance
393:High-importance
366:
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288:
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1294:Low-importance
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1284:
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1264:the discussion
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1187:Mid-importance
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1143:Mid-importance
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1113:the discussion
1100:
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1083:
1071:
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1068:Mid‑importance
1064:Libertarianism
1056:
1044:
1043:
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1039:
1032:Top-importance
1028:
1022:
1021:
1019:
1002:the discussion
984:
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838:the discussion
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481:
469:
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455:
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417:Low-importance
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336:
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107:
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93:
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68:
62:
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59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
2611:
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2041:
2040:
2039:
2035:
2031:
2027:
2022:
2019:
2010:ditorialising
2007:
1999:
1991:
1987:
1985:. I disagree.
1978:
1973:
1972:
1971:
1970:
1966:
1962:
1953:
1951:
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1946:
1942:
1937:
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1928:
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1628:criterion met
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1235:
1232:
1228:
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1223:
1216:
1211:
1208:
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1201:
1188:
1185:(assessed as
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1183:
1175:
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1157:
1153:
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1138:
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1097:
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1024:
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1016:Rome articles
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998:ancient Roman
995:
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985:
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967:
964:
961:
957:
945:
928:
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918:
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886:
873:
869:
863:
860:
859:
856:
839:
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830:
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822:
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817:
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797:
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771:
770:
767:
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746:
742:
741:
736:
733:
729:
728:
724:
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684:
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679:
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668:
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578:
577:
574:
557:
556:
551:
547:
546:
538:
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525:
522:
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517:
513:
506:
502:
498:
494:
490:
485:
482:
479:
475:
462:
461:
451:
447:
446:
442:
439:(assessed as
438:
437:
427:
423:
422:
418:
415:(assessed as
414:
413:
403:
399:
398:
394:
391:(assessed as
390:
389:
379:
375:
374:
371:
354:
353:documentation
350:
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342:
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333:
322:
320:
317:
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312:
308:
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254:
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214:
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208:
204:
196:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
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110:Verifiability
108:
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101:
98:
97:
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87:
83:
81:
78:
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52:Learn to edit
49:
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18:
17:
2185:
2167:
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2159:
2155:
2151:
2144:
2091:
2087:
2045:
2026:make between
2017:
1957:
1929:
1923:
1919:
1916:
1877:
1858:
1851:
1835:
1828:
1822:
1816:
1810:
1796:
1790:
1741:
1563:
1537:
1497:
1434:
1395:articles to
1386:
1379:
1378:
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1253:
1180:
1142:
1102:
1031:
987:
924:
867:
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745:project page
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627:Philosophers
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489:Philosophers
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267:WikiProjects
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122:
94:
19:This is the
2143:, which is
1924:pro Caecina
1746:section on
1743:On this day
1604:Structure:
1269:Linguistics
1260:linguistics
1210:Linguistics
148:free images
31:not a forum
2228:Categories
2141:WP:LIBRARY
2070:WP:SUMMARY
1990:the commit
1798:To-do list
561:Philosophy
550:philosophy
484:Philosophy
2205:Periferal
2096:Periferal
2092:populares
2088:optimates
1961:Periferal
1874:Gladiator
1738:Main Page
1475:Classical
1467:Biography
749:talk page
358:Biography
286:Biography
255:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2046:Remsense
1977:Remsense
1884:Aminabzz
1565:criteria
1410:Religion
1388:Religion
1341:Religion
1118:Politics
1109:politics
1059:Politics
926:inactive
900:inactive
501:Religion
295:Military
203:365Â days
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2147:useful.
2006:adapted
1826:refresh
1814:history
1740:in the
1538:C-class
1479:C‑class
1437:on the
1296:on the
1145:on the
1034:on the
870:on the
781:on the
588:on the
505:Ancient
257:B-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2164:Cicero
2160:Cicero
2156:Cicero
2152:Cicero
2020:1.3–5.
1802:Cicero
1774:, and
643:Ethics
493:Ethics
263:scale.
126:Google
25:Cicero
2190:Ifly6
2172:Ifly6
2074:Ifly6
2030:Ifly6
2008:. Re
1941:Ifly6
1899:Ifly6
1820:watch
843:Latin
834:Latin
806:Latin
244:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2209:talk
2194:talk
2176:talk
2145:very
2100:talk
2078:talk
2034:talk
2028:it.
2018:Cic.
1965:talk
1945:talk
1934:and
1920:Caes
1903:talk
1897:No.
1888:talk
1865:talk
1808:edit
1800:for
1399:and
1397:good
1007:Rome
996:and
994:Rome
966:Rome
862:High
580:High
347:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1429:Top
1401:1.0
1288:Low
1137:Mid
1026:Top
773:Top
176:TWL
2230::
2211:)
2196:)
2178:)
2102:)
2080:)
2036:)
2012::
2004:→
2000:;
1996:→
1967:)
1947:)
1905:)
1890:)
1867:)
1770:,
1766:,
1762:,
1758:,
1754:,
1750:,
1654:/
1473:/
1469:/
1465::
1213::
1189:).
1062::
607:/
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499:/
495:/
491:/
487::
443:).
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395:).
301:/
297:/
293:/
289::
201::
193:,
156:)
54:;
2207:(
2192:(
2174:(
2098:(
2090:/
2076:(
2052:诉
2032:(
1979::
1975:@
1963:(
1943:(
1901:(
1886:(
1863:(
1829:·
1823:·
1817:·
1811:·
1804::
1778:.
1544:.
1532:C
1510:.
1441:.
1320:.
1300:.
1149:.
1038:.
929:.
902:)
898:(
874:.
785:.
751:.
592:.
463:.
355:.
269::
195:2
191:1
188::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
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