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contribution than is necessary to get across your concerns, and the tone of the language you've used to describe my contribution is more than a little uncharitable. It's a topic I myself will continue to follow in the news, so as long as I continue to contribute to
Knowledge (XXG), it will be updated. However, I think your application of the WP:NOTNEWS and WP:UNDUE policies here is largely conditional on the assumption that insurance is not a sufficiently important sub-topic of climate change even though you acknowledge that it is a notable topic. The subsection is not original reporting about a breaking news topic and does not feature coverage of routine announcements, but descriptions of market pricing trends over time. However, if you still feel that this too much detail, then I'd reiterate what I said in my initial comment: the subsection lede can simply be excerpted on this article following a split. --
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between climate change and insurance in the United States. However, how climate change is impacting the provision of insurance in the United States is one of the main ways in which it is impacting the U.S. economy, so I'd argue that detailed coverage is justifiable. I acknowledge that the annual statistics will become outdated in time, but the statistics cited are fairly recent and until there are secondary sources that cover long-term impacts of climate change on the provision of various categories of insurance (e.g. reports from financial regulatory agencies or journal article by professional economists who study the insurance sector in the United States specifically), I am not aware of lot of reliable sources for it.
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2097:. I understand your vigilance about NPOV, but I think you are quick to claim that I'm editorializing when I am using the terms in the sources that are widely accepted by all parties. I know you don't intend this, but your attempt to keep biased tone out of the article is actually introducing a bias—not uniformly so, but in this specific instance you are softening a widely accepted term that even the oil industry uses to describe its own operation. It is difficult to be aware of our own biases, but I will try if you will.
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2506:, which has a section on climate change. That whole section included a very long list of climate change impacts to Indigenous people in the US. That is a global article, and while impacts of climate change are certainly relevant to TEK, I don't think a list of climate change impacts to American Indigenous people belongs in that article. So I started moving some of that information over here to the impacts section. More to do, but I'm done for now.
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trafficking. It's an indirect and speculative link from climate change to sex trafficking, but I've left it in the article because it's expressed in the context of Whyte's saying it. I made the language track what the reference actually states; we should all strive to be true to the references without introducing our own commentary or interpretations. —
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I wanted to add onto this point made, the sources seem to be biased and the claims are not neutral. To state "Thus, the impacts of global climate change are viewed as being not separate from but rather an intensification of the impacts of settler colonialism." This claim is biased and also taken from
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that is the subject of this article, so I deleted that sentence. Whyte's content re increased outsider access because of melting ice to resources doesn't have such problems. PS Your mention of "large predominately male workforces" comes across as sensationalistic and non-neutral editor commentary not
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I agree that TEK has a place in adaptation, hopefully sourced to reports of specific scientifically demonstrated techniques and not merely to 'promotional' sources. Your edits to date wisely place the assertions in context of who the sources are, and that the content is how they view climate change's
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I think one thing that we should all be aware of is that there is a tendency to reduce 'climate change' to 'global climate change caused by burning hydrocarbons'. Actually, climate in the US has been changed by other factors such as deforestation, desertification, major infrastructure such as dams,
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As for your concerns about the length of the subsection, I think that's more defensible since the subsection is 22 kb of readable prose out of an 86 kb readable prose article. The subsection lede could be easily just excerpted in this article after a split. However, I'd just add as side-note that
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Well, after looking for academic research using Google
Scholar and looking for news content to create the subsection for several months now, I don't know how much more content there really would be to add to the subsection because this is basically all I found that identifies a clear relationship
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Under "Impacts on animals and wildlife" the section should have more emphasis on the impacts on animals and wildlife, adding more details and reliable sources that are more relevant; the sources are linked to 2015 and although it may seem somewhat relevant as
Climate change continues to grow and
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Your recent edits add about 33% to an article that is already long. Much of your content is incredibly detailed and of short-term interest, especially the year-by-year, and even quarter-by-quarter statistics. I don't have the link, but there is a
Knowledge (XXG) guideline that we should include
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places the term in quotes, which he would not likely have done were the term in fact known even to him. His quotes emphasize it, for reasons easy to surmise. Almost certainly, "man camp" is objectively misdescriptive since they're probably not 100% occupied by males (in this century, at least).
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I've already acknowledged that the subsection's length would justify a split and would not have a problem with a split. My only complaint is that when I've raised the same issue with a different article, the policy has not been enforced. You've gone a lot further in your complaints about my
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Importantly, it's extremely misleading to say that "Climate change in the United States" implies this expansive definition of "climate change". The term "climate change", as used in the overwhelming majority of reliable sources and on
Knowledge (XXG) has meant global warming-induced climate
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I would propose that the article be named "Effects of climate change in the United States". Climate change, as we can (hopefully) all agree is a global thing. What the article actually goes into detail on is the effects of climate change as it relates to the United States such as the recent
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In the introduction paragraph, Paragraph 1 the word 'Climate Action' takes you to an incorrect link, leading you to the
Climate change Mitigation wiki page. I have removed the incorrect link and tried linking it to the corresponding page but there are no links leading to 'Climate action'.
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Concerning the non-neutrally-named, provocatively-named 'man camps', my edit comment wasn't specific enough to explain that what Whyte said about ice melting applies only to the Arctic, is tenuously related to 'man camps' mentioned with respect to North Dakota, which he says "attract" sex
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Under "Climate change by state or territory, " more elaboration should be added. Understanding how climate change policies work in different states and territories is extremely crucial and significant to understanding the basis of
Climate change in the United States. The viewpoint seems
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Side note, the reason I am not WP:BOLDing this and making an RMA is because I know that
Climate Change topics in general provoke a lot of criticism and accusations of malintent so I wanted to pitch it here first to see if there is general consensus on this before moving forward.
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Under "International cooperation" it would make sense to add climate change policies not only that the United states are enforcing but also what other countries are putting in place for their own climate regulations and see if the U.S. could learn anything from these policies.
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of climate change are a completely different issue—even if
Hobomok and activists try to link them for political reasons. 17:46, 18 Dec . . . Of course it's fine to quote Whyte etc in context about the impacts, as you have done in your first edit a few minutes ago.
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I replaced the sentence about man camps. The increased access for resource extraction is relevant to this section in the context of how it affects people. It's true that the MMIW crisis existed before climate change, but Whyte's whole point is that climate change
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is relevant for this article, but probably shouldn't be under this section on 'impacts'. It might be included in a new sub-section under 'adaptation'. There are several relevant sources that discuss TEK in the context of climate change. I hope to add this later.
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Sorry you viewed my remarks as uncharitable. (I couldn't quite follow which side of the issue where you were on, when you said you raised complaints elsewhere.) I agree it would be a good idea to transclude or duplicate a brief intro to a separate sub-article.
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for quite some time, and that is the topic of this article. So we can't reduce the
American Indigenous experience of climate change in the United States to GHG emissions. I think this observation may be at the core of some of the confusion/conflict between
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Also within the "International Cooperation" section of your article, you could utilize how new electric cars and renewable energy sources are becoming more available leading people across the world to producing less carbon emissions throughout the world.
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Conversely, "laborers' camp" is a neutral descriptive term, not a loaded term, and thus does not "introduce bias". An encyclopedia shouldn't accept loaded "man camp" terminology over "laborers' camps" any more than we should refer to the value-laden
2920:— You are condemning other editors to cleaning up outdated, short-term micro-statistics in the future. (This clean-up would be required, even if you break out a sub-article, but especially heere.) I'd rather not bother other editors with a formal
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directly connected to the "access" issue, and that "large..." language didn't seem to be in the Whyte reference. PPS After you "fully" cite a source once, if you need to use it again you can use an abbreviated citation with a "/" before the ": -->
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Under "Economic impact" There seems to only be one line explaining the impacts the economy has undergone from climate change. This is very relevant since the economy is the basis of the United States and should be elaborated further on.
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I've raised complaints about other articles (e.g. the Facebook article is 99 kb of readable prose) and my complaints have largely gone unheeded, and that the WP:SIZE and WP:SPLIT policy articles appear to have been changed. --
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Certainly, TEK is relevant. I hope you can find independent, reliable reference(s) that specifically describe particular scientifically demonstrated TEK approaches that can help to relieve greenhouse gas increase that causes
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OK, well I originally chimed in here to help sort out a conflict, not to start another one. So I'm willing to leave this here for now. I hope to get around to the above mentioned TEK contributions later. Thanks.
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2902:. Look at the Table of Contents and compare insurance to all the other topics and subtopics. Climate change may be important for insurance, but insurance is not as important a subtopic for climate change.
2742:"the EU, the U.S., and Japan are the largest net recipients of trade-embodied carbon dioxide emissions." In other words countries export pollution (and climate change) though the importing of goods.
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In the International cooperation section of the article there are some outdated and some missing sources. I would advise you add some new climate policies that are being incorporated internationally.
2905:— You seem to imply you've included "basically all (you) found that identifies a clear relationship between climate change and insurance in the US". We simply can't include "all" that we "find". See
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content only if it will be notable for readers in ten or twenty years. If you want to persist in anything close to this level of detail, probably it's best to start an article like
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I have tried to be clearer about that in the replaced phrasing. I'm still hoping to get to the inclusion of TEK, (with good sources of course) but it might take a few days.
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articles themselves, which to my knowledge have never hinted about locally-induced changes to local "climate". Such a vague definition confuses readers about the
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a descriptive phrase, and should not be decomposed to mean "any change in climate"—any more than "hot dog" should be expanded to mean "any dog that is hot". —
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The table of contents conclusively demonstrates that the article is in no way limited to "effects". Much of the article is about the changing U.S. climate
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of climate change have necessitated new applications of TEK. When I researched TEK in a climate change context, practically everything I found related to
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Just because someone has never heard of a word or because it doesn’t have a Knowledge (XXG) page doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and it isn’t used widely.—
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I agree to the opposition on the name change. "Climate Change in the United States" is succinct and leaves space for the sections on policy and culture.
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Sorry, I hadn't noticed your edit re "man camps" involved in resource extraction (true even before climate change), and that are not a true
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I wasn't arguing the "Just because" phrase above. Mere "use", or asserted "wide use" with examples, are not enough. Undeniably the term is
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I would have to agree. Limiting it to effects discredits sections such as economic and public effects as well as, the impact on people.
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It seems that another viewpoint could be helpful in this discussion. I think you both have valid points. Some of the sources (eg,
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I've added a paragraph to the Adaptation section. I think it could use additional specific examples of adaptation. —
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I agree that climate change's effect on insurance is notable—notable enough for an independent article (maybe
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Under the section 'See also' there are multiple links corresponding to the correct page but when clicking on '
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are in both. Recited with reference to sex trafficking, the non-neutral effect of using the term is clear. —
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Sorry there won't be any Teslas left for you Americans as new PM Albanese will ship them all down under.
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Not sure I understand your objection to the term 'man camp'. This is what they are called
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Yes, I agree it's potentially confusing. I think I've made the distinction clear though.
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If you are looking for ways to improve this article, we recommend checking out our
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Man camps is a term that is widely used in the oil and gas industry (as
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by Kyle Whyte stating that this a key theme. Not factual evidence.
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I would like to add this to the entry but don't know where?
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crisis. P.S. deforestation increases greenhouse gases as a
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etc for much longer than GHG emissions have been changing
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19:This is the
2907:WP:SIZERULE
2783:11 May 2024
2566:30 May 2022
2508:Larataguera
2440:Larataguera
2411:Larataguera
2388:Larataguera
2384:Thank you,
2372:Larataguera
2335:not neutral
2246:and another
2242:and another
2225:larataguera
2161:summer camp
2099:Larataguera
2048:Larataguera
2021:"... like
1986:Larataguera
1967:Larataguera
1874:Larataguera
1805:Larataguera
1790:Larataguera
1605:Works cited
1240:Immigration
613:style guide
482:Environment
467:categorized
455:environment
407:Environment
148:free images
31:not a forum
2995:Categories
2911:WP:NOTNEWS
2888:"detailed"
2705:Milkncooki
2690:Milkncooki
2623:Milkncooki
2574:Milkncooki
2531:adaptation
2477:the paper
2157:labor camp
1999:impacts. —
1591:References
1373:Adaptation
1343:Mitigation
1092:Megafloods
1062:Heat waves
841:designated
718:Assessment
1815:relevance
1660:heat wave
1300:Insurance
854:, or any
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2971:RCraig09
2927:RCraig09
2915:WP:UNDUE
2836:RCraig09
2536:RCraig09
2434:RCraig09
2418:RCraig09
2395:RCraig09
2356:RCraig09
2250:see here
2235:contribs
2166:RCraig09
2153:Man camp
2076:RCraig09
2028:RCraig09
2002:RCraig09
1955:RCraig09
1935:RCraig09
1866:RCraig09
1837:RCraig09
1778:RCraig09
1720:RCraig09
1637:211,961
1578:See also
1521:Activism
1315:Security
1077:Droughts
640:Tropical
611:and our
203:365Â days
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2722:Chidgk1
2527:impacts
2273:Hobomok
2266:example
2262:example
2063:climate
1870:Hobomok
1786:Hobomok
1697:Chidgk1
1634:211,961
1514:14,207
1484:20,854
1469:39,974
1456:16,769
1411:16,398
1381:10,183
1351:26,647
1336:70,028
1263:17,900
1210:Culture
1173:37,696
1130:15,142
1055:25,655
1025:48,535
999:10,477
984:Section
929:before.
762:on the
735:Weather
723:A-Class
686:weather
635:Weather
598:on the
509:on the
459:neutral
382:on the
246:C-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2900:per se
2896:per se
2339:itself
1918:result
1914:global
1910:global
1872:. . .
1830:causes
1715:itself
1653:Rename
1559:1,569
1544:2,015
1529:1,248
1511:14,207
1499:8,125
1481:12,729
1453:16,769
1441:7,551
1426:5,013
1396:3,903
1366:7,916
1348:18,731
1323:2,081
1293:8,948
1285:Alaska
1278:2,032
1270:Hawaii
1233:1,466
1203:4,510
1188:2,144
1160:1,400
1145:1,124
1127:14,018
1115:2,698
1100:1,379
1085:6,957
1070:7,810
1040:4,896
1012:3,142
996:10,477
986:total
728:Alerts
348:Alerts
252:scale.
126:Google
1922:local
1672:Jcmcc
1631:Total
1556:1,569
1541:2,015
1526:1,248
1496:8,125
1438:7,551
1423:5,013
1408:3,834
1393:3,903
1378:6,280
1363:7,916
1320:2,081
1290:8,948
1275:2,032
1260:6,920
1230:1,466
1200:4,510
1185:2,144
1170:7,748
1157:1,400
1142:1,124
1112:2,698
1097:1,379
1082:6,957
1067:7,810
1052:6,811
1037:4,896
1022:1,442
1009:3,142
992:(Top)
981:count
471:Read
443:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2975:talk
2947:talk
2931:talk
2909:and
2861:talk
2840:talk
2807:talk
2781:and
2759:talk
2726:talk
2709:talk
2694:talk
2679:talk
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2648:talk
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2595:talk
2564:and
2540:talk
2512:talk
2487:talk
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2277:talk
2264:and
2258:here
2254:here
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2006:talk
1990:talk
1971:talk
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1939:talk
1928:and
1926:term
1904:and
1878:talk
1868:and
1841:talk
1794:talk
1774:this
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1724:talk
1701:talk
1676:Talk
1626:442
1613:554
1598:627
1585:594
1572:446
1248:993
1218:775
979:Byte
910:Tip:
831:The
590:High
501:High
461:and
374:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2797:).
2580:).
2523:TEK
2504:TEK
2392:. —
2353:. —
2256:or
2252:or
2159:or
2093:or
1930:not
1823:of
1623:442
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1569:446
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1215:775
754:Low
176:TWL
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