Talk:AR-15 variant

2193:

AR-15 rifles. Only Colt (and, historically, Armalite) have owned the trademark "AR-15". And, for example, if we include any defamatory information on fake AR-15 rifles, and ascribe it to Colt, by falsely claiming that all these rifles are "AR-15"s, then there is definitely going to be a legal response by Colt. If they do not respond, then they are not defending their trademark. No, we cannot conflate other rifles, made by other companies, with Colt's AR-15 trademarked rifle. It opens up Knowledge to legal problems. Why do you believe "there's no trademark or copyright issue for the Knowledge Foundation". There clearly is, if we publish defamatory information about their trademarked item, when it is not something they even made? This makes no sense. It would be the same as publishing defamatory material about Joe Bob's product called the Chevrolet Corvette being a death trap, when GM and Chevrolet have nothing to do with making the product made by Joe Bob that he calls a Chevrolet Corvette. Words have meanings. Especially with regards to trademarked items, that are protected by the trademark owner. This is not that hard to understand. Unless, the object is to publish defamatory material about Colt, since they do own the AR-15 trademark. Is that the reason for conflating products made by other companies, to try and smear Colt? That would certainly be an issue for the Knowledge Foundation. Being a non-profit does not give a foundation a pass on falsely publishing information about a company's products.

2160:

hot water with the owner of the trademark. Likewise, if you wanted to start a company to sell an AR-15 type rifle or AR-15 style rifle, and you called it something other than a trademarked name, it would not be a problem, either. On the other hand, if you started a company to sell "AR-15" rifles, you would immediately run afoul of trademark violations, as Colt owns the trademark to "AR-15". As long as Colt owns the "AR-15" trademark, and it does not become a generic name for which trademark protection is no longer maintained, it is not proper or legal to market an AR-15 variant rifle and call it by the trademarked name, AR-15. For this reason, we should not write an article about "AR-15 rifle" and include rifles other than those produced by the owner of the trademark "AR-15". The common vocabulary used is either "AR-15 type rifle", or "AR-15 variant". I would have no problem in renaming the article as "AR-15 type rifle". I also have no issue with leaving it as "AR-15 variant". Both terms are commonly used. But, I would have a problem in a Knowledge article called "AR-15" if it were to include rifles by any company other than Armalite or Colt, who both have owned the trademark over the years. Folks, this is not hard. My $ 0.02 worth.

3202:. Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR) has a different, broader meaning than AR-15 Variant. Specifically, Modern Sporting Rifle also commonly includes numerous other designs than those based solely upon the AR-15 platform. MSRs can include AR-15 Variants, FN FAL Variants, AK-47 Variants, and a host of other designs, too, configured into a common sporting rifle configuration. Lots of plastic, hand grips, removable standard capacity (e.g., 30 round) magazines, and a host of other features, such as flash suppressors, muzzle breaks,etc. Scant stocks (i.e., stocks san pistol grips) are not seen on MSRs. So, NAY, as an MSR is a much broader category term than AR-15 Variant. MSR is not a synonym for an AR-15 based platform. An AR-15 Variant is but one type of MSR. 1515:"Variants of AR-15" is similar to the current title, "AR-15 variant", but hardly anybody uses either term. Another problem is that it implies that it covers only a subset of AR-15s. What we need is an article that provides an overview of the entire field, including both the lineage of "official" models and the numerous variants, clones, and derivatives. I think that "AR-15-type rifles" or "AR-15-style rifles" would be good titles as they appear to be broad enough to include everything (except for the marginal AR-style pistols and shotguns). 191: 240: 222: 1921:, "You infringe someone else's trademark if you seek to trade by using their trademark" and not otherwise. . Another editor was like "At OTRS, at least when I was a regular, we would get these complaints all the time. It was treated as a non-issue..." so I would guess that caps it; there's no valid legal or organizational argument against the move. 1237:. I am sure Colt attorneys would be more than willing to clarify their ownership of the AR-15 trademark to anyone that marketed an AR-15 that infringed on their trademark. This is the reason that Bushmaster has their XM15-E2S name, instead of infringing on Colt's AR-15 trademark. Accuracy counts. Perhaps a more accurate name would be 1307:

trademark, a proprietary eponym like Velcro, Kleenex, Xerox, or Tupperware. Civilian AR-style rifles encompass anywhere between four to nine million weapons used for purposes ranging from recreational target shooting to varmint and predator hunting to simply being kept under beds, in closets, or on mantles.

2862:

Colt started selling the semi-automatic version of the M16 rifle as the Colt AR-15 for civilian use in 1964 and the term has been used to refer to semiautomatic-only versions of the rifle since then. The first civilian version was the Colt AR-15 Sporter, a .223 Remington semi-automatic rifle released

2910:

Finally, I simply rearranged the information that was already in the article. I also clarified that the article is about "semi-automatic Colt AR-15s" and their clones and variants. The only new content that I added was a list current AR-15 manufactures for which I added sources. I also, added a list

2906:

Most of the machinegun content that I removed was completely unsourced and in fact challenged by other users with "citation needed" notations. That content that was sourced simply discussed the legality of second and third party machinegun conversion. Therefore, the machinegun content that I removed

1934:

should enter into the question is a matter of opinion I guess; and whether that renders our suitability for downstream use a little less than pure, I don't know. It's possible. On the other hand, aside from that debatable question, "AR-15" is probably a better title, just as "Sports car" is probably

1880:

SO Felsic seems to be the only one who wants the move. I can see the logic -- "AR-15 variant" kind of implies "Here is an article about entities that are not exactly AR-15s -- they are variants". But I'm not willing to take a stand. So anyway without more support there's no point in formatting it as

1479:

The basic problem here is that there isn't a generic term for these entities I gather. It's as if instead of the word "sports car" we only had the word "Ferrari" to describe those. People need to come up with a generic term -- "lightweights" or "killers" or "streetsweepers" or whatever. But we don't

2995:

this article. As there is no point in having two separate articles covering the same subject, I recommend that this unsourced term AR-15 variant article be converted into a redirect to the well sourced term MSR article. I’m not asking for the term “AR-15 variant” to be eliminated, just redirected.--

2858:

In 1959, ArmaLite sold its rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt. After a tour by Colt of the Far East, the first sale of Colt made Armalite AR-15s was made to Malaya on September 30, 1959. Colt manufactured their first 300 ArmaLite AR-15s in December 1959. Colt marketed the ArmaLite AR-15 rifle to

2854:

The Colt AR-15 is based on the 5.56 mm ArmaLite AR-15 rifle, which is a smaller lighter version of the 7.62 mm ArmaLite AR-10, designed by Eugene Stoner, Robert Fremont and L. James Sullivan of the Fairchild Armalite corporation. The "AR" in all ArmaLite pattern firearms simply stands for "ArmaLite

2843:

The original ArmaLite AR-15 rifle was designed as a selective fire weapon for military purposes. ArmaLite was forced to sell the design to Colt due to financial difficulties. After some modifications, the rifle eventually became the US Army's M16 rifle, with a semi-automatic version marketed as the

2759:

In the History section of the page, I'd argue that the rifle was controversial as early as 1994 when it suffered its first large legislative control by name, or at least by 2012 when it was again threatened. Although 2016 is not incorrect per se, it implies that controversy surrounding the platform

1953:

OK, thanks. I appreciate your even-handed approach to this dispute. Based on the above discussion, Mike Searson also appears to have based, his opposition, at least in part, on the trademark issue. In any case, what I'd like to do now that the legal and policy issues are settled is to post a formal

1577:

says nothing about it. I don't see why Knowledge would be prohibited from doing the same thing that book and magazine publishers do. They frequently discuss "AR-15" rifles that aren't made by Colt, and even use the term in titles. So I don't think it's a legal matter either. I'll ask Moonriddengirl

1529:

You are entirely correct that we can't say "AR-15s are the most popular rifle in America" except when reporting a direct quote (or unless we're talking about Colt rifles specifically). We also can't say "In the final scene of Movie X, Julie reaches for a kleenex as she xeroxes the love letter" even

894:

The issue is that these rifles are not commonly called "AR-15 variants". They're called "AR-15s". Unless someone can show otherwise, this article should be titled "AR-15". This article title was chosen hastily with almost no discussion. It is a poor choice, since only a handful of sources make even

2994:

I agree, Felsic2 says a lot of things over, and over, and over again, and many of them are incorrect. What I’m saying is that “Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR)” is a superior term. It is a recognize and well sourced term for the AR-15 class of firearm. The MSR article already exists and already mirrors

2954:

As User:Felsic2 has repeatedly stated, over, and over, and over again (above), AR-15 variant is not a proper term for these firearms. It appears to be a construct invented by this page’s creator as he did not know what else to call it. User:Mike Searson suggested renaming this page Modern Sporting

2892:

The article is intentionally confusing the semi-auto COLT AR-15 rifle with the select-fire ARMALITE AR-15 rifle. The ArmaLite AR-15 has not been made for over 50 years and was never sold to civilians. Those ArmaLite AR15s that still exist are museum pieces or highly valued collector pieces worth $

2599:

No. The AR-18 uses a true piston system. The piston driven ARs are kludged into using the existing AR-15 buffer and action spring system. If they were true AR-18 variants, you would be able to fire the rifle with the stock folded to the side. The SIG MCX is closer to the AR-18 or AR-180 than to an

2159:

Except the trademark issue is a real issue. If a person wanted to start a company to sell an item called a sports car, that would be no problem. On the other hand, if you started a car company to manufacture a car you want to call a "Chevrolet Corvette", you would immediately be in a lot of legal

2832:

AR-15s are not machineguns. They are semi-automatic rifles based on the Colt AR-15 design. I have attempted to remove the machinegun content from the article as it is extremely misleading and confusing to the readers with limited firearms knowledge. However, I have been prevented from doing so by

2192:

Except there is a trademark and copyright issue. If we are going to have an article covering a product from a particular company, i.e., Colt, and their AR-15, then it is patently unfair to write about products made by others who are not making AR-15 rifles in an article that ostensible is about

2140:

article and decided the right fix was to move the old article to that title, creating the "variant" article to cover what didn't fit into the Colt article. But that leaves no article to describe the inter-relation of the various AR-15 and M16, the core commonalities, etc. One side effect is that

416:

There was a very rushed discusion which led to this article name ("AR-15 variant"), and certainly no consensus for it. There are several problems. One is that "variants", as I understand it, usually refers to specific models within a particular manufacturer's product line. For example, a carbine

2866:

Initial sales of the Colt AR-15 were slow, primarily due to its fixed sights and carry handle that made mounting a scope difficult and awkward to use. This changed in the 1990s with the introduction of the flat top upper receiver and new features such as free floating hand guards that increased

2839:

AR-15 variants are a general category of semi-automatic firearms based on the Colt AR-15 design and now made by many different manufactures. After Colt's patents expired, an active marketplace emerged around the AR-15 rifle's design, all sharing the same basic characteristics of the Colt AR-15.

1530:

if that's how normal people talk. We have to say "tissue" and "photocopy". We are not regular people talking at a gun show. We are encyclopedia publishers. As such we are required to respect Colt's trademark rights. If this means we have to sound a little stilted, that is a price we have to pay.

516:

Modern Sporting Rifles. :) Kidding. This is a catch-all term. You might call them AR-15s and so would most people. However, the only manufacturer that can legally call them that is Colt because they own the trademark. So your Stag, S&W, Noveske, LWRC, etc. rifles are called something else.

2847:

The term "AR-15" originally signified "Armalite rifle, design 15". However, today the term "AR15" or "AR-15" is a Colt registered trademark and Colt only uses the term to refer to its line of semi-automatic civilian rifles. Other manufacturers now make AR-15 clones and variants marketed under

1635:

I mean, I see your point, but we are so strict about this stuff. It's like, the web is filled to overflowing with sites using copyvio pictures but we don't do that. I guess the goal is to be free for the downstream user, so someone can use our stuff confident that it's free to use... magazine

1306:

Frequently mis-glossed as “Assault Rifle,” the AR in “AR-15” refers to its original manufacturer, Armalite. Of course, the key patent was filed sixty years ago and has long since expired; today, “AR-15” is a trademark of Colt Defense LLC and, over the years, “AR-15” has evolved into a generic

1232:

Yes. I do object. The reason is that only Colt owns the AR-15 trademark. But, Colt does not own the AR-15 design, as the patents have long since expired and are now free to be used by all. Hence, the various AR-15 variants are legal clones of the Colt AR-15 design, except in semi-automatic

3174:

Black Rifle can be used to describe both the AR-15 and the M16 rifle. Here we have the problem with this article. First, we are trying to invent a term to describe this class of firearm. Second, we have to deal with propaganda and misinformation. For example the machinegun info that you have

1686:

a term -- and the only term, really -- for this class of weapons. The consensus was under trademark law and practice and Knowledge OTRS practice we are free to use "AR-15" how we wish, so that is not constraint to moving the article. For my part I've withdrawn my objection to the

2555:

I'd like to ask how he determines what is notable within a topic, and whehter he believes that sources aren't necessary for this article. His edits leaves this article with only one sentence from a source that explicitly talks about "AR-15 variant" firearms, the subject of this

2384:, which I didn't write. Can we get a source that says that a AR-15 variant is a "lightweight, intermediate cartridge magazine-fed, air-cooled semi-automatic rifle with a rotating lock bolt, actuated by direct impingement gas-operation or long/short stroke piston operation" ? 2174:

I believe we established that there's no trademark or copyright issue for the Knowledge Foundation. Nobody is proposing that this encyclopedia actually sell an AR-15 rifle. If there were an issue, there are numerous magazine and book publishers who would already have been

1128:

article, not this article. However I think we both realize that the AR-15 is currently a generic style of firearm, with numerous manufactuers producing models that are commonly called "AR-15s". Writers and sources refer to AR-15s, so that's what we should call the article.

2955:

Rifle. All kidding aside, Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR), is a recognize and well sourced term for this class of firearm. Therefore, I recommend that this article be transformed into a redirect to the MSR article, which already exists and which already mirrors this article.

1798:

It's a regular, approved template that's used to indicate which text needs a citation. I'll put in a simpler citation tag in its place. At some point this problem needs to be resolved though. BTW, it's a bad editing practice to remove clean-up tags without any comments.

1120:, " AR-15 rifle more loved — and hated — than ever - Amid the rising call for the rifle to be banned, sales of the "Barbie doll for guys" have soared", "Police demonstrate the power of the AR-15 rifle", " "6 Facts About AR-15 Gas Impingement Vs. Piston - Gun Digest", 2899:

Any semi-automatic firearm may be converted to a machinegun by those who possess the proper knowledge, skill and tools. Therefore, machinegun conversions are not unique to AR-15s. In fact, before the AR-15, semi-auto M1 Carbines were commonly converted to full-auto

3175:

thankfully removed this article, and the obsession that some editors have with adding terrorist attacks and mass murderers, and criminal users to every firearms article that they can get away with. It's better to just delete the article and be done with it--

2859:

various military services around the world. After modifications (most notably the relocation of the charging handle from under the carrying handle to the rear of the receiver), the redesigned rifle was adopted by the United States military as the M16 rifle.

2496:

One refers to "AR-15 variant assault rifles" being smuggled into Mexico while another describes making an AR-15 variant without a serial number. If editors really want to keep the article at this title then that's some of the content it should contain.

2053:

has is that "AR-15 variant" is not the vocabulary in gun circles. So I have reworded the lead to describe the phenomenon of AR-15 variations, and move away from declaring "AR-15 variant" as what you would overhear someone say at your local gun range.

2867:

accuracy. In 1994, only a handful of companies were manufacturing AR-15 type rifles. However, by the twenty first century the number of AR-15 variants and clones had more than doubled. By 2016, every major gun manufacturer produced an AR-15 variant.

2870:

By 2016, AR-15-pattern rifles had become controversial in the United States. While the National Rifle Association labeled them as "America's gun", their use in mass shootings has led to a debate between advocates of gun control and gun rights.

1511:

The problem is that, trademarks aside, sources refer to firearms of this type as "AR-15s", regardless of who makes them. So a source might say, "AR-15s are the most popular rifle in America." Currently, there's no article where we can report

1428:

would be that much worse, though. "AR-15" is a trademark and we (Knowledge) can't call most non-Colt entities "AR-15". (This partly depends on whether Colt is actively defending their trademark, which we should assume they are unless we know

3013:

MSR may be a nice term, but it covers far more than AR15 variants. What you are proposing is akin to taking the articles on the Corvette, Mustang and Camaro and redirecting them to automobile, since they're all commonly referred to as cars.

2131:

Here's what I wrote on your talk page: My view is that the proper article title is "AR-15", to cover the entire family of AR-15 firearms. That makes sense to me becasue there are countless sources that refer simply to "AR-15s". There was an

2494: 2491: 2489: 2526:

OK, I added material from two of those sources. The third turns out to be a self-published book, so I don't think it qualifies as a reliable source. That leaves the other 99% of the article without sources that refer to "AR-15 variant".

855:

I've added it yet again. We need a source that talks about "AR-15 variants", the purported subject of this article. Anything that doesn't talk about "AR-15 variants" is off-topic, or at least does not satisfy the need for verifiability.

2400:

Perhaps you should reread the quote...especially the "Armalite AR-15" part that I have highlighted... "The Colt Canada C7 rifle is a Canadian assault rifle, manufactured by Colt Canada (formerly Diemaco prior to 2005), a variant of the

874:

Well why not just nominate it for deletion, then? Delete the whole thing and let's make an article for every last manufacturer of the black rifle and all their models and variations. If you think this is about something that does not

3155:

User:Mike Searson also suggested deletion above. Although, it appears to be a sarcastic comment made in frustration. He also called these weapons "Black Rifles". A Knowledge search shows that the term already links to the AR-15

3119:

I'm open to change, but redirecting this to MSR simply isn't a good proposal. Like I said, it's like taking the article about the Piper Cub and the B-52 to airplane. Just change/moving for the sake of moving isn't the answer.

1543:

Since (I gather) there isn't a term equivalent to tissue and photocopy for these entities, whether we can claim necessity it taking a little leeway and using constructions such as "AR-15-like rifle" -- I don't know. Whether

421:, which is the subject of countless published sources. If you insist on keeping an article at this name then I could remedy that last problem by writing a fresh article on the overall topic of AR-15 firearms. Any objection? 2271:

I'm of the opinion that we make the section about 2-4 sentences about how the platform is adaptable to a wide variety of calibers and then link it to the existing list article. This article essentially duplicates the list.

2760:

is only very recent relative to its age. And certainly its been controversial to one degree or another since it was fielded as the M16, but in the context of civilian legalities those are the two points of time of note.

721:

renaming article to AR-15 (or possibly AR-15's). AR-15s is confusing because it makes it sound like model "s" rather than a plural. I agree that "AR-platform firearm" is cumbersome and inferior to the current title.

1107:

Thanks for providing that. However that trademark registration does not constrain our choices here. Nor does it constrain other writers. Just look at the list of references in this article, which contains entries like

1903:, I've been waiting to do a formal move proposal until we resolved the legal and policy issues, and until I could assemble a proper case. Do we now all agree that there is no legal or policy prohibition on the title? 2863:

in 1964 and issued with 5-round magazines. Colt continues to use the AR-15 trademark for its line of semi-automatic rifles (AR-15, AR-15A2, AR-15A4) that are marketed to both civilian and law-enforcement customers.

840:. There has to be a citation that specifically uses and defines the term "AR-15 variants". As I mentioned elsewhere, the term does not seem to be in common usage and I could only find a few minor references to it. 316:

Which is why if you go to AR-15, you get a link here. Come up with a better name if you can, stud. I was thinking "AR-15 pattern rifles" but obviously some people get confused when they see pistols, pdws and the

153: 1259:

It would be the same as calling all soda pop "Coke", or all tissues "Kleenex". I am sure that Pepsi would disagree, as would Charmin, if these names were used for their products incorrectly. Accuracy counts.

2113:

Want to enumerate them? I do think the "History" section is a bit involved and detailed and could be shortened or cleaned up. With the rewritten lead, an argument could be made to retitle the article to be

2141:

random editors try to "correct" various articles because they don't include that overview. So everyone's life would be simplified if the article existed at a logical title instead of a contrived one.

917:

The term "AR-15" cannot be used when referencing other manufacturers' samples of the same rifle. There is a reason why Bushmaster uses the prefix "XM" or DPMS uses "D". "AR-15" is trademarked by Colt:

2896:

The AR-15s that are made today, are not machineguns. They are semi-auto rifles made by dozens of manufactures. Therefore, constantly referring to them as machineguns is misleading to say the least.

1930:

I will note that the first editor quoted above went on "You do not do anything more than piss them off if you use their trademark in a way in which they'd prefer you not to". Whether making Colt

1283:

If I understand correctly, your objection is based solely on the trademark issue. Let me go ask for some input from other editors about how trademark issues like this affect Knowledge editing.

3101:

What if we bring the page up for deletion? I'm not half joking this time. Do you think the others editor would support it or would it be waste of time? Maybe we should open another proposal?--

1450:

does not give us the right to abrogate somebody's trademark right. Even under the current name (and worse under the proposed new name), we are subject to a cease-and-desist letter from Colt.

398:

I don't think he was completely serious, but one person didn't give you permission to change it to whatever you decided. Where was this awkward sounding stuff discussed or even suggested?

2903:

As stated above, AR-15s that are manufactured today are semi-auto rifles. The fact, that a second or third party can convert them to a machineguns is simply irrelevant and misleading.

2178:

As for a better title, "AR-15 type rifle" would be much better than "AR-15 variant", since "variant" only covers minor sub-types while the other title would cover the entire topic.

576:

I doubt anyone is going to search for AR-15 variant either. That's why I think the ideal name is simply "AR-15". No one has explained why we don't have an article by that name.

2855:

Rifle" and can be found on most of the company's firearms: AR-5, a .22 caliber rifle; the AR-7, another .22 caliber; the AR-17 shotgun; the AR-10 rifle; and the AR-24 pistol.

147: 3028:

I have no desire to endlessly debate this Proposal. We disagree. I think having one article is preferable. Let's see what the rest of the Knowledge community thinks.--

2347:

Source? "The Colt Canada C7 rifle is a Canadian assault rifle, manufactured by Colt Canada (formerly Diemaco prior to 2005), a variant of the Armalite AR-15,... "

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I was going to format this as a proper Requested Move so that someone would eventually come along and close it, but in summarizing the positions so far I get:

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problem I have with the article title. My larger complaint is with the implied scope of the article. But your edit has improved the lead. Thanks.

1737:

What? I just looked at this conversation and I had darn little participation in it. Why on earth is this now pinging me and telling me about it?

3381: 3243:: I believe a simpler and more logical solution would be to move "AR-15" to "AR-15 (disambiguation)", and "AR-15 variant" to "AR-15". Thanks, 85: 44: 1574: 1446:"hand me a kleenex". As long as the Kleenex Company is defending their trademark (they are) and until a judge rules that they have failed. 260: 1881:

a formal Requested Move since it won't be accepted, absent a wave of more votes. Felsic or anyone else is welcome to, of course, though.

1463:

and can't be shortened then so be it, long as that is. Better than having a title which a trademark vio and invitation to legal trouble.

592:

Doubt it if you want. The only person demanding "AR-platform firearm" is you and your premature move without discussion was ill-advised.

256: 1196:

Does anyone have an actual objection to renaming this article "AR-15", and moving the disambiguation page to "AR-15 (disambiguation)"?

2643: 2248:

True. I'm stepping away from these for a while but I started cleaning this one up. feel free to pitch in and help if you want.--

1609: 348:

Since we need an overall article that encompasses the entire category of AR-15s, I moved the article to "AR-platform firearm".

99: 30: 3070:...this article was created to appease Felsic2. It didn't work. While it has been improved I've always considered it FUBAR. -- 2451:

If there's no source I'll just delete it, which is what happens to material in Knowledge which no one can find a source for.

767:

I'm sorry that when users are given the choice they don't pick your favorite page. Your just going to have to live with it.--

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of AR-15 type rifles with the links to those articles, and I added some related articles with links in the see also section.

1636:

publishers don't care about that. Maybe I'm being too strict, I dunno. Let's see if anybody weights in at the pump I guess.

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uses a short-stroke piston. So aren't firearms that follow the AR pattern with a piston action actually AR-18 variants?

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Still no sources for what an "AR-15 variant" is? If there are no objections I'll add the material that I found above.

2234:

While the discussion is now located elsewhere, this overly long list of everything but the kitchen sink still exists.

65: 2488:

I've searched for sources that mention "AR-15 variant". So far I've only found a few books which use that exact term.

978:(LAST LISTED OWNER) COLT INDUSTRIES INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF PENNSYLVANIA 430 PARK AVENUE NEW YORK NEW YORK 10022 1939:

for "AR-15". But those questions have nothing to do with the legal/policy question, which is settled I would say.

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move RFC. Before that happens I need a little time to prepare the evidence properly. Does that sound reasonable?

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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Some of the material I added was deleted by DHeyward without any discussion here. (So much for BRD). He said "

1935:

a better title than "Sports car variant" and so forth; but it also depends on what we think is the the likely

1434:

Look: if we had an article about the various kinds of paper tissues you wipe your face with, we would call it

2888:

User Jim1138 asked me to discuss this issue on this talk page, yet he has not responded. So I must restate.

2735: 2635: 2552:" OTOH, he restored a bunch of unsourced material that doesn't directly concern the AR-15 or AR-15 variants. 1435: 190: 109: 2607: 2316:

Are all "AR-15 variant" weapons semi-automatic? What's our source for the definition of this term anyway?

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would be an allowable title -- I don't know. That's a question for the copyright bigwigs -- you could ask

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

2707: 2277: 2239: 2029: 1995: 1973: 1944: 1886: 1785: 1742: 1641: 1557: 1498: 1468: 1416: 802: 751:, a select-fire rifle manufactured by ArmaLite, and predecessor of the United States military M16 rifle. 673: 633: 597: 563: 558:"AR-platform firearm" sounds cumbersome and a pretty unlikely search term. I see no issue with variant. 403: 371: 208: 2634:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 3328: 3244: 1439: 896: 757:, a line of semi-automatic rifles manufactured by Colt, based on the United States military M16 rifle. 668:

your term was. Second, your stat compares 2 terms, 1 of which isn't under consideration. Meaningless.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the

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Felsic2 says a lot of things and many of them are incorrect. Why exactly is this not a correct term?

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So we're giving up on ever finding a source that uses this term in the way this article intends it?

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Don't argue about the popularity of search tersm and then discard information about search terms.

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110915075030/http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/evolution-ar

2601: 2589: 2561: 2532: 2517: 2502: 2456: 2426: 2389: 2352: 2321: 2295: 2249: 2212: 2183: 2146: 2104: 2060: 2013: 1959: 1908: 1845: 1804: 1763: 1724: 1583: 1520: 1386: 1336: 1319: 1288: 1280:". The vast majority of sources that refer to "AR-15" are not talking about Colt brand rifles. 1277: 1201: 1180: 1134: 1059: 908: 876: 861: 845: 822: 787: 691: 651: 617: 581: 518: 459: 426: 387: 353: 339: 318: 306: 51: 3348: 3309: 3223: 3180: 3146: 3121: 3106: 3088: 3075: 3047: 3015: 2981: 2933: 2792: 2442: 2410: 2371: 2335: 2273: 2235: 2076: 2072: 2025: 1991: 1969: 1940: 1898: 1882: 1873: 1867: 1781: 1738: 1714: 1637: 1568: 1553: 1494: 1464: 1461:

Variants of lightweight intermediate cartridge magazine-fed air-cooled semi-automatic rifles

1412: 1124:, "Evolution of an AR". Do those articles all discuss Colt AR-15? If so, they belong on the 798: 772: 669: 629: 593: 559: 443: 399: 367: 2727: 782:

Why don't we have an article on the AR-15? It's the subject of countless reliable sources.

141: 3141:...I changed my mind. This article more trouble than it's worth. We should just kill it.-- 2024:

No. Most of it has already been said and I'm getting tired of this endless wikilawyering.

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Knowledge:Village pump (policy)#What is our approach to trademarks in this difficult case?

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Mike Searson asked me to come up with something better. Do you have a another suggestion?

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I don't know if the copyvio board is the right place (maybe it is). I posted a notice at

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Owner (REGISTRANT) COLT'S INC. CORPORATION ARIZONA 150 HUYSHOPE AVE. HARTFORD CONNECTICUT

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come to a Knowledge:Disambiguation page which at the moment gives them three options...

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As you can see these edit were made to clarify the AR-15 lineage as a semi-auto rifle.--

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Far too much text there.... but the premise is correct. The AR15 is not a machine gun.

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Perhaps you can find a source for the definition of "AR-15 variant". There's none now.

2381: 2115: 1864:: Oppose based on trademark issues (although these have been shown to be not an issue). 760: 748: 3087:

The problem with the proposal is the redirect suggestion. It's not really a good one.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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Knowledge talk:Article titles/Archive 55#When a generic trademark is the common name

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If there's no explanation for the deletion I'll restore the "citation needed" tag.

1579: 1516: 1459:. I'll leave the question of the best descriptive term to you all. If it has to be 1382: 1332: 1315: 1284: 1197: 1130: 904: 857: 841: 818: 783: 687: 647: 613: 610: 577: 455: 422: 383: 349: 335: 302: 301:

No one much calls these firearms "AR-15 variants". They simply call them "AR-15s".

1758:. If there's no source for this claim then the text should be changed or deleted. 1552:

who is expert in these matters, there is also a copyvio board somewhere I think.

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OK, so let's talk about the other term, AR-15. How come the article isn't there?

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separate designations, although these are all frequently referred to as AR-15s.

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user Jim1138, who left a message on my talk page asking me to discuss it here.

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YES, they are....If they are full-auto then they would be M16 rifle variants.--

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article that served as an umbrella, but then someone realized there was no

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versions, only. Have added clarifications to the disambiguation page at:

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variant. The bigger problem is that we no longer have an article about the

1245:. Personally, I don't see any problem with the present structure. YMMV. 1612:

and pointed Moonriddengirl to it (she doesn't seem to be on much though).

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Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#When_a_generic_trademark_is_the_common_name

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You don't know that the M16 rifle replaced the Armalite AR-15 in 1964?--

3356: 3336: 3313: 3295: 3252: 3211: 3184: 3165: 3150: 3129: 3110: 3096: 3079: 3055: 3037: 3023: 3004: 2989: 2972: 2941: 2924: 2883: 2821: 2769: 2749: 2612: 2593: 2565: 2536: 2521: 2506: 2460: 2446: 2430: 2414: 2393: 2375: 2356: 2339: 2325: 2299: 2281: 2260: 2243: 2216: 2202: 2187: 2169: 2150: 2126: 2108: 2089: 2033: 2017: 1999: 1977: 1963: 1948: 1912: 1890: 1808: 1789: 1767: 1746: 1728: 1645: 1587: 1573:. I still can't find any Knowledge policy or guideline on this issue. 1561: 1524: 1502: 1472: 1420: 1390: 1363: 1340: 1323: 1292: 1269: 1254: 1205: 1191: 1138: 1070: 912: 887: 865: 849: 826: 806: 791: 776: 731: 695: 677: 655: 637: 621: 601: 585: 567: 529: 463: 447: 430: 407: 391: 375: 357: 343: 329: 310: 3046:

Endlessly debate it? You haven't really engaged in any discussion.

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Variant is but a term, another one might be "pattern" or "style".--

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Then put in a regular CN tag, not some highlighted text nonsense.

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Do you have any sources or policies that back up your arguments?

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Do you want to be accurate or are you trying to make a point?--

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First, I didn't argue about the popularity. I pointed out how

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Since I go no response there I re-asked the same question at

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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Objection Withdrawn per Village Pump discussion (see below).

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

2008:

Could you please clarify the basis for your opposition?

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You don't know that all Armalite AR-15 are select-fire?

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is lost, is see no problem with this proposal either.

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passing mentions of "AR-15 variants". Google results:

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http://www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote45.htm

763:, a general category of firearms based on Colt AR-15. 366:

Well I'm glad we got a consensus before we moved it.

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http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/evolution-ar

1234: 251:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2696:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1489:? I can see using "Ferrari-type automobiles" if we 2793:"Why the AR-15 is the mass shooter's go-to weapon" 1424:) The current title is also dead wrong. Moving to 837:I reverted the deletion of this citation request: 2851:I also rewrote the history section as follows... 1578:and see if I can find the copyright noticeboard. 3304:I agree with Limpscash. This makes sense to me-- 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3258:I think it would be better if we turn this the 2836:I also rewrote the intro to read as follows... 1678:over how to handle the situation that AR-15 is 1303: 2682:This message was posted before February 2018. 2550:No indication that this is notable in any way. 2057:. I hope this can help solve the impasse. Cc: 1674:I did post, and there was a discussion at the 174: 8: 2437:I'm not your assistant...Do it yourself.-- 216: 2626:I have just modified 2 external links on 201:does not require a rating on Knowledge's 2783: 1114:Gunsmithing the AR-15, the Bench Manual 1009:Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED 218: 2045:Folks, it seems the only real problem 1110:GunDigest Shooter's Guide to the AR-15 1012:Attorney of Record GEZA C. ZIEGLER JR. 2915:Therefore, I am restoring my edits.-- 2671:to let others know (documentation at 2580:An AR-15 uses direct impingement. An 817:Yes, we did. Now we don't. How come? 454:What's the definition of "variants"? 245:This redirect is within the scope of 188: 7: 1854:: Oppose, but move to "AR-15 variant 1575:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Trademarks 1756:This deletion of a citation request 954:Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING 207:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 14: 2893:80,000 to $ 90,000 (if not more). 2630:. Please take a moment to review 334:Yes, the better name is "AR-15". 3372:Redirect-Class Firearms articles 1442:, even though everyone commonly 972:Registration Date March 14, 1967 238: 220: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 3377:NA-importance Firearms articles 2652:Corrected formatting/usage for 2959:Please, vote YEA or NAY below: 2907:was irrelevant and misleading. 2791:Smith, Aaron (June 21, 2016). 2594:16:23, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2566:17:47, 17 September 2016 (UTC) 2537:16:40, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2522:22:16, 14 September 2016 (UTC) 1493:so, i think maybe this is OK? 269:Knowledge:WikiProject Firearms 1: 3382:WikiProject Firearms articles 2507:22:39, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2461:19:46, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2447:19:28, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2431:19:17, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2415:18:59, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2394:18:56, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2376:18:48, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2357:18:39, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2340:18:29, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2326:18:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 2034:22:22, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 2018:20:46, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 2000:20:36, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 1978:18:56, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 1964:17:34, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 1949:17:19, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 1913:15:38, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 1891:21:35, 20 November 2016 (UTC) 1646:01:13, 17 November 2016 (UTC) 1588:00:11, 17 November 2016 (UTC) 1562:03:18, 13 November 2016 (UTC) 1525:16:17, 11 November 2016 (UTC) 1503:16:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC) 1421:21:35, 20 November 2016 (UTC) 827:18:24, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 807:18:21, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 792:18:18, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 777:17:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 696:18:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 678:18:21, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 656:18:18, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 638:17:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 622:16:37, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 612:The popular name is "AR-15". 602:17:31, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 586:16:35, 5 September 2016 (UTC) 568:01:53, 1 September 2016 (UTC) 272:Template:WikiProject Firearms 42:Put new text under old text. 3347:So this is a done deal now? 3276:page into a redirect to the 3264:page into a redirect to the 2770:18:27, 12 January 2017 (UTC) 2613:03:58, 17 October 2016 (UTC) 2217:21:44, 1 February 2017 (UTC) 2203:22:16, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 2188:19:04, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 2170:18:24, 31 January 2017 (UTC) 2151:16:44, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 2127:16:24, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 2109:15:33, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 2090:14:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 1919:the folks at the Policy Pump 1473:21:09, 9 November 2016 (UTC) 1391:20:31, 9 November 2016 (UTC) 1364:08:19, 9 November 2016 (UTC) 1341:19:22, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1324:19:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1293:18:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1270:18:47, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1255:18:43, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1206:17:21, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1192:16:57, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1139:16:42, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1118:Gun Digest Book of the AR-15 1071:16:14, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 1024:Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19870314 913:15:44, 19 October 2016 (UTC) 888:03:53, 17 October 2016 (UTC) 866:19:04, 15 October 2016 (UTC) 850:20:28, 12 October 2016 (UTC) 3267:List of Colt AR-15 variants 2750:08:14, 1 October 2016 (UTC) 2300:20:46, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 2282:03:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 2261:02:18, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 2244:01:18, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 1876:: No position at this time. 1809:16:13, 5 January 2017 (UTC) 1790:03:08, 5 January 2017 (UTC) 1768:22:46, 4 January 2017 (UTC) 1747:21:43, 3 January 2017 (UTC) 1729:19:30, 3 January 2017 (UTC) 1350:Above link now archived at 969:Registration Number 0825581 960:Filing Date August 25, 1966 530:22:24, 31 August 2016 (UTC) 464:22:17, 31 August 2016 (UTC) 448:22:05, 31 August 2016 (UTC) 431:20:48, 31 August 2016 (UTC) 408:20:42, 28 August 2016 (UTC) 392:18:59, 28 August 2016 (UTC) 376:17:37, 28 August 2016 (UTC) 358:01:16, 28 August 2016 (UTC) 344:20:46, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 330:02:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 311:00:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC) 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 3398: 2942:16:16, 29 April 2017 (UTC) 2925:03:31, 27 April 2017 (UTC) 2884:06:28, 24 April 2017 (UTC) 2828:AR-15s are not machineguns 2713:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2623:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2822:16:18, 3 March 2017 (UTC) 732:16:53, 3 March 2017 (UTC) 628:That stat is meaningless. 233: 215: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 3357:18:53, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3337:10:03, 14 May 2017 (UTC) 3323:As long no content from 3314:06:00, 14 May 2017 (UTC) 3296:04:23, 14 May 2017 (UTC) 3282:page. Then we create an 3253:01:14, 13 May 2017 (UTC) 3185:15:07, 11 May 2017 (UTC) 3166:04:22, 11 May 2017 (UTC) 3151:03:46, 10 May 2017 (UTC) 3130:03:11, 10 May 2017 (UTC) 3111:01:48, 10 May 2017 (UTC) 2775:I agree. See also this 2755:History, "controversial" 2118:as the primary name. -- 1990:I also oppose the move. 1027:Live/Dead Indicator LIVE 966:Original Filing Basis 1A 3270:page. Then we turn the 3212:19:37, 9 May 2017 (UTC) 3097:17:51, 9 May 2017 (UTC) 3080:04:21, 7 May 2017 (UTC) 3056:00:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC) 3038:04:05, 5 May 2017 (UTC) 3024:13:56, 4 May 2017 (UTC) 3005:03:54, 4 May 2017 (UTC) 2990:17:23, 3 May 2017 (UTC) 2973:04:16, 3 May 2017 (UTC) 2619:External links modified 2600:AR-15 in that regard.-- 2380:I was just quoting the 1021:Affidavit Text SECT 15. 963:Current Filing Basis 1A 3284:AR-15 (disambiguation) 3241:alternative suggestion 1917:I agree. According to 1436:Types of facial tissue 1312: 1015:Type of Mark TRADEMARK 957:Serial Number 72253092 75:avoid personal attacks 100:Neutral point of view 2694:regular verification 1862:User:Miguel Escopeta 740:Users searching for 438:sounds good to me.-- 248:WikiProject Firearms 105:No original research 2684:After February 2018 2663:parameter below to 1550:User:Moonriddengirl 899:= 12,500,000 hits. 897:("AR-15" -variants) 2844:Colt AR-15 rifle. 2738:InternetArchiveBot 2689:InternetArchiveBot 1018:Register PRINCIPAL 901:("AR-15 variants") 259:and see a list of 203:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 2714: 1846:User:Mike Searson 1546:AR-15-type rifles 1487:AR-15-type rifles 1455:Instead, move to 1423: 1366: 1278:Generic trademark 1179:Whatever, dude.-- 291: 290: 287: 286: 283: 282: 275:Firearms articles 183: 182: 66:Assume good faith 43: 3389: 3235: 2805: 2804: 2802: 2800: 2788: 2748: 2739: 2712: 2711: 2690: 2678: 2547: 2080: 2052: 1902: 1874:User:Herostratus 1868:User:Niteshift36 1718: 1708: 1707: 1572: 1440:Types of kleenex 1411: 1349: 277: 276: 273: 270: 267: 242: 235: 234: 224: 217: 194: 193: 185: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 3397: 3396: 3392: 3391: 3390: 3388: 3387: 3386: 3362: 3361: 3232:Miguel Escopeta 3217: 3204:Miguel Escopeta 2952: 2830: 2809: 2808: 2798: 2796: 2790: 2789: 2785: 2757: 2742: 2737: 2705: 2698:have permission 2688: 2672: 2636:this simple FaQ 2621: 2578: 2541: 2314: 2231: 2195:Miguel Escopeta 2162:Miguel Escopeta 2095:That isn't the 2069:Miguel Escopeta 2058: 2046: 1937:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1896: 1833: 1831:Arbitrary break 1712: 1566: 1262:Miguel Escopeta 1247:Miguel Escopeta 948:Word Mark AR-15 903:= 5,200 hits. 299: 274: 271: 268: 265: 264: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 3395: 3393: 3385: 3384: 3379: 3374: 3364: 3363: 3360: 3359: 3344: 3343: 3342: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3318: 3317: 3299: 3298: 3215: 3214: 3196: 3195: 3194: 3193: 3192: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3169: 3168: 3153: 3133: 3132: 3114: 3113: 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281: 280: 278: 243: 231: 230: 225: 213: 212: 206: 195: 181: 180: 118: 117: 113: 112: 107: 102: 93: 92: 90: 89: 82: 77: 68: 62: 60: 59: 48: 39: 38: 35: 34: 28: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3394: 3383: 3380: 3378: 3375: 3373: 3370: 3369: 3367: 3358: 3354: 3350: 3346: 3345: 3338: 3334: 3330: 3326: 3325:AR-15 variant 3322: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3315: 3311: 3307: 3303: 3302: 3301: 3300: 3297: 3293: 3289: 3285: 3281: 3280: 3275: 3274: 3269: 3268: 3263: 3262: 3261:AR-15 variant 3257: 3256: 3255: 3254: 3250: 3246: 3242: 3238: 3233: 3229: 3225: 3221: 3213: 3209: 3205: 3201: 3198: 3197: 3186: 3182: 3178: 3173: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3167: 3163: 3159: 3154: 3152: 3148: 3144: 3140: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3134: 3131: 3127: 3123: 3118: 3117: 3116: 3115: 3112: 3108: 3104: 3100: 3098: 3094: 3090: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3082: 3081: 3077: 3073: 3069: 3057: 3053: 3049: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3039: 3035: 3031: 3027: 3025: 3021: 3017: 3012: 3011: 3010: 3009: 3006: 3002: 2998: 2993: 2991: 2987: 2983: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2970: 2966: 2961: 2960: 2956: 2949: 2943: 2939: 2935: 2931: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2922: 2918: 2909: 2905: 2902: 2898: 2895: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2886: 2885: 2881: 2877: 2872: 2868: 2864: 2860: 2856: 2852: 2849: 2845: 2841: 2837: 2834: 2827: 2823: 2819: 2815: 2811: 2810: 2794: 2787: 2784: 2778: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2767: 2763: 2754: 2752: 2751: 2746: 2741: 2740: 2729: 2725: 2722: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2709: 2703: 2699: 2695: 2691: 2685: 2680: 2676: 2670: 2666: 2662: 2655: 2651: 2649: 2645: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2637: 2633: 2629: 2628:AR-15 variant 2624: 2618: 2614: 2611: 2610: 2605: 2604: 2598: 2597: 2596: 2595: 2591: 2587: 2583: 2575: 2567: 2563: 2559: 2554: 2551: 2545: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2534: 2530: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2510: 2509: 2508: 2504: 2500: 2495: 2492: 2490: 2462: 2458: 2454: 2450: 2449: 2448: 2444: 2440: 2436: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2432: 2428: 2424: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2417: 2416: 2412: 2408: 2404: 2399: 2398: 2397: 2396: 2395: 2391: 2387: 2383: 2379: 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1838: 1837: 1836: 1830: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1791: 1787: 1783: 1779: 1778: 1777: 1776: 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1769: 1765: 1761: 1757: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1751: 1748: 1744: 1740: 1736: 1735: 1734: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1726: 1722: 1716: 1711: 1710: 1709: 1704: 1685: 1682:a brand name 1681: 1677: 1673: 1672: 1671: 1670: 1669: 1668: 1667: 1666: 1665: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1661: 1660: 1647: 1643: 1639: 1634: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1625: 1624: 1623: 1611: 1607: 1606: 1605: 1604: 1603: 1602: 1601: 1600: 1599: 1598: 1589: 1585: 1581: 1576: 1570: 1565: 1564: 1563: 1559: 1555: 1551: 1547: 1542: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1537: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1522: 1518: 1514: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1507: 1504: 1500: 1496: 1492: 1488: 1484: 1483: 1478: 1477: 1474: 1470: 1466: 1462: 1458: 1454: 1453: 1449: 1448:WP:COMMONNAME 1445: 1441: 1437: 1433: 1432: 1427: 1422: 1418: 1414: 1409: 1405: 1404: 1400: 1399: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1380: 1379:the Help Desk 1376: 1375: 1374: 1373: 1372: 1371: 1365: 1361: 1357: 1353: 1348: 1347: 1346: 1345: 1342: 1338: 1334: 1331: 1328: 1327: 1326: 1325: 1321: 1317: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1294: 1290: 1286: 1282: 1279: 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1267: 1263: 1258: 1257: 1256: 1252: 1248: 1244: 1243:AR-15 variant 1241:, instead of 1240: 1236: 1231: 1230: 1207: 1203: 1199: 1195: 1194: 1193: 1190: 1189: 1184: 1183: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1173: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1166: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1160: 1159: 1140: 1136: 1132: 1127: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1111: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1072: 1069: 1068: 1063: 1062: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1046: 1045: 1044: 1043: 1026: 1023: 1020: 1017: 1014: 1011: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1003: 1002: 1001: 1000: 999: 998: 997: 996: 995: 994: 977: 974: 971: 968: 965: 962: 959: 956: 953: 950: 947: 946: 945: 944: 943: 942: 941: 940: 939: 938: 937: 936: 935: 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"-- 2120:Fuzheado 2083:Fuzheado 875:exist.-- 797:We did. 666:unlikely 294:Move to 266:Firearms 253:firearms 228:Firearms 199:redirect 56:get help 29:This is 3286:page.-- 3230:, and 3068:Support 2799:3 March 2661:checked 2632:my edit 2586:Felsic2 2558:Felsic2 2529:Felsic2 2514:Felsic2 2499:Felsic2 2453:Felsic2 2423:Felsic2 2386:Felsic2 2349:Felsic2 2318:Felsic2 2292:Felsic2 2209:Felsic2 2180:Felsic2 2143:Felsic2 2101:Felsic2 2075:, and 2049:Felsic2 2010:Felsic2 1956:Felsic2 1932:unhappy 1905:Felsic2 1801:Felsic2 1760:Felsic2 1721:Felsic2 1580:Felsic2 1517:Felsic2 1383:Felsic2 1333:Felsic2 1316:Felsic2 1285:Felsic2 1198:Felsic2 1131:Felsic2 905:Felsic2 858:Felsic2 842:Felsic2 819:Felsic2 784:Felsic2 719:Support 688:Felsic2 648:Felsic2 614:Felsic2 578:Felsic2 456:Felsic2 423:Felsic2 384:Felsic2 350:Felsic2 336:Felsic2 317:like.-- 303:Felsic2 154:WP refs 142:scholar 3306:RAF910 3228:RAF910 3177:RAF910 3143:RAF910 3139:Delete 3103:RAF910 3072:RAF910 2669:failed 2439:RAF910 2407:RAF910 2368:RAF910 2332:RAF910 2065:RAF910 1403:Oppose 769:RAF910 440:RAF910 205:scale. 126:Google 3273:AR-15 2795:. CNN 2777:WP:RS 2582:AR-18 2175:sued. 2134:AR-15 1968:Yes. 1687:move. 1512:that. 1426:AR-15 1314:FYI. 1235:AR-15 742:AR-15 419:AR-15 296:AR-15 197:This 169:JSTOR 130:books 84:Seek 3353:talk 3333:talk 3310:talk 3292:talk 3249:talk 3239:and 3208:talk 3181:talk 3162:talk 3147:talk 3126:talk 3107:talk 3093:talk 3076:talk 3052:talk 3034:talk 3020:talk 3001:talk 2986:talk 2969:talk 2938:talk 2921:talk 2900:M2s. 2880:talk 2818:talk 2801:2017 2766:talk 2665:true 2603:Mike 2590:talk 2562:talk 2533:talk 2518:talk 2503:talk 2457:talk 2443:talk 2427:talk 2411:talk 2390:talk 2372:talk 2353:talk 2336:talk 2322:talk 2296:talk 2278:talk 2251:Mike 2240:talk 2213:talk 2199:talk 2184:talk 2166:talk 2147:talk 2124:Talk 2105:talk 2097:only 2087:Talk 2030:talk 2014:talk 1996:talk 1974:talk 1960:talk 1945:talk 1909:talk 1887:talk 1805:talk 1786:talk 1764:talk 1743:talk 1725:talk 1680:also 1642:talk 1584:talk 1558:talk 1521:talk 1499:talk 1469:talk 1444:says 1438:not 1417:talk 1387:talk 1360:talk 1354:. -- 1337:talk 1320:talk 1289:talk 1266:talk 1251:talk 1202:talk 1182:Mike 1135:talk 1061:Mike 909:talk 878:Mike 862:talk 846:talk 823:talk 803:talk 788:talk 773:talk 728:talk 692:talk 674:talk 652:talk 634:talk 618:talk 598:talk 582:talk 564:talk 520:Mike 460:talk 444:talk 427:talk 404:talk 388:talk 372:talk 354:talk 340:talk 320:Mike 307:talk 162:FENS 136:news 73:and 3237:Nay 3200:NAY 2702:RfC 2679:). 2667:or 2646:to 2081:-- 1491:had 176:TWL 3368:: 3355:) 3335:) 3312:) 3294:) 3251:) 3226:, 3222:, 3210:) 3183:) 3164:) 3149:) 3128:) 3109:) 3095:) 3078:) 3054:) 3036:) 3022:) 3003:) 2988:) 2971:) 2940:) 2923:) 2882:) 2820:) 2812:-- 2768:) 2715:. 2710:}} 2706:{{ 2677:}} 2673:{{ 2606:- 2592:) 2564:) 2535:) 2520:) 2505:) 2459:) 2445:) 2429:) 2413:) 2392:) 2374:) 2355:) 2338:) 2324:) 2298:) 2280:) 2254:- 2242:) 2215:) 2201:) 2186:) 2168:) 2149:) 2122:| 2107:) 2085:| 2071:, 2067:, 2063:, 2032:) 2016:) 1998:) 1976:) 1962:) 1947:) 1911:) 1889:) 1858:". 1807:) 1788:) 1766:) 1745:) 1727:) 1644:) 1586:) 1560:) 1523:) 1501:) 1471:) 1419:) 1406:. 1389:) 1381:. 1362:) 1339:) 1322:) 1291:) 1268:) 1253:) 1204:) 1185:- 1137:) 1116:, 1112:, 1064:- 911:) 881:- 864:) 848:) 825:) 805:) 790:) 775:) 730:) 722:-- 694:) 676:) 654:) 636:) 620:) 600:) 584:) 566:) 523:- 462:) 446:) 429:) 406:) 390:) 374:) 356:) 342:) 323:- 309:) 156:) 54:; 3351:( 3331:( 3316:. 3308:( 3290:( 3247:( 3234:: 3218:@ 3206:( 3179:( 3160:( 3145:( 3124:( 3105:( 3091:( 3074:( 3050:( 3032:( 3018:( 2999:( 2984:( 2967:( 2936:( 2919:( 2878:( 2816:( 2803:. 2764:( 2747:) 2743:( 2730:. 2723:. 2588:( 2560:( 2546:: 2542:@ 2531:( 2516:( 2501:( 2493:] 2455:( 2441:( 2425:( 2409:( 2388:( 2370:( 2351:( 2334:( 2320:( 2294:( 2276:( 2238:( 2211:( 2197:( 2182:( 2164:( 2145:( 2103:( 2079:: 2059:@ 2051:: 2047:@ 2028:( 2012:( 1994:( 1972:( 1958:( 1943:( 1907:( 1901:: 1897:@ 1885:( 1856:s 1803:( 1784:( 1762:( 1741:( 1723:( 1717:: 1713:@ 1640:( 1582:( 1571:: 1567:@ 1556:( 1519:( 1497:( 1467:( 1415:( 1410:( 1385:( 1358:( 1335:( 1318:( 1287:( 1264:( 1249:( 1200:( 1133:( 907:( 860:( 844:( 821:( 801:( 786:( 771:( 726:( 690:( 672:( 650:( 632:( 616:( 596:( 580:( 562:( 458:( 442:( 425:( 402:( 386:( 370:( 352:( 338:( 305:( 263:. 211:: 172:· 166:· 158:· 151:· 145:· 139:· 133:· 128:( 58:.

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