594:"Hello. I am an editor of Knowledge, an online information resource, and I had some questions about your organization, the answers to which could help me verify the contents of some Knowledge articles. Is AHA a religious organization, a secular one, or both? Do some of its members consider themselves to be religious Humanists? Do some of them consider themselves completely secular? Does AHA have a religious tax exemption? Your answers will help me greatly in improving Knowledge by ensuring that the information it provides is as complete and accurate as possible. Thank you."
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819:, the aim is to have verifiable, neutral POV articles, and that the criterion really is verifiability rather than truth. While this fits with what I'd read before, it isn't how I was thinking about it. (I hadn't actually registered the distinction until I was writing my previous post here.) I was trying to not devolve to legalistic wrangling, which is why I suggested finding someone who had seen this problem before rather than just coming up arguments from the text of the guideline pages.
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wasn't necessary to convince me, at least, concerning use of capitalization on pages related to IHEU and its documents. It was not my intention to completely call into question their preference for capitalization, my point was that the preference wasn't strong enough to make the arguments from it that I saw you as making at the time. If you have more questions about this, it is probably better to put them on my talk page rather than here.
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such, and the latter prefers to think of
Humanism as a philosophical life-stance, and an ALTERNATIVE to religion. The difference is in mode of practice and style - but the positions on reality are the same. All modern practicing Humanist groups are non-theistic and naturalists. This is why the AHA goes with the IHEU's position that there is simply "Humanism" and drops all the adjectives. --
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762:(much to Rohirok's delight) called into question my claim that the IHEU preference was for capitalization, by pointing out the lack of capitalization on their front page. They changed it, because I contacted them. Either of you could have done the same. That's not an email. We also have the endorsed statement on Humanist Identity. We also have the
699:, it's fairly easy to argue that this is OR. However, this is not really the sort of problem the OR rule was really intended to solve, so there are arguments the other way. That's why I suggest finding out what's been done in the past. It might be fine. But if it isn't, there is probably a good reason why that's so.
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A good way to look at the distinction between verifiability and truth is with the following example. Suppose you are writing a
Knowledge entry on a famous physicist's Theory X, which has been published in peer-reviewed journals and is therefore an appropriate subject for a Knowledge article. However,
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so there may be a grey area. My first guess is that in contacting an organization, it is only appropriate to ask where one might look for answers to certain questions, perhaps in their own literature, or perhaps in press clippings they could point to. But overall, this whole concept of contacting the
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One note to clarify: RELIGIOUS HUMANISM is *still* non-theistic and does not incorporate the supernatural. In fact, its actual beliefs are identical to SECULAR Humanism. The only difference between these two branches is that the former prefers to think of
Humanism as a *religion* and practice it as
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What is the point of all this legalistic wrangling, anyway? I thought the aim was to have true, neutral POV articles. That's what I was doing on the IHEU article, and that - I believe - is what
Rohirok is trying to do here. Rather than add salt into the wound, why not just wait for Rohirok to get
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We appear to be a doing a good job of confusing each other. My citations here concern what
Rohirok is doing, which as I noted above, I don't really think is equivalent to what you did. At the IHEU page, I have gone over what I think your communication with IHEU does and doesn't prove, and why it
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I don't understand why the (Humanist) magazine search is redirected to the AHA article. There should be a separate article for the magazine. I have seen many other instances (too numersous to mention) of other articles about an organization with a closely associated magazine and in all the
671:"My first guess is that in contacting an organization, it is only appropriate to ask where one might look for answers to certain questions, perhaps in their own literature, or perhaps in press clippings they could point to." Exactly, which is what I thought Rohirok was doing. --
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in the course of writing the article, you contact the physicist and he tells you: "Actually, I now believe Theory X to be completely false." Even though you have this from the author himself, you cannot include the fact that he said it in your
Knowledge entry.
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Now you're confusing me. Do you agree or disagree with the verifiability of the IHEU article? I thought (on the IHEU talk page) that you said that you agree. Here it sounds like you disagree. Plus, it was not just an email.
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cases the magazine was given a separate article. But not in this instance. That's what I sometimes hate about
Knowledge when these arbitrary decisions are made by someone who thinks that there shouldn't be an article.
640:, I suggested that checking an orthographic convention with an organization might be ok, and as it does not affect the content of an article, and is a judgement call anyway, it may just avoid being OR. But only just.
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Why do we we need the IHEU email at all? Only because
Rohirok continued to question the verfiability of the information, even after the website changed. What was being attacked
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was not the verifiability of the IHEU article, but me. To protect my integrity, you are invited to ocntact the IHEU who have indicated that they are willing to back me up.
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I think this is really starting to veer toward " Surely not? All we are trying to do is get credible facts, and hopefully provide online citations to existing material.
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subject of an article seems a bit dodgy. I strongly suggest trying to find someone who has seen this issue come up before and finding out how it was resolved.
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articles, I have sent a request to AHA to verify information to be included on this web page. I hope to receive a response to the following questions soon:
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One more point. Does
Knowledge object to the orgnaisation in question creating new material on their own website (as happened with the IHEU)? I doubt it. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20121124034235/http://www.secularnewsdaily.com:80/2012/11/national-ad-campaign-promotes-kidswithoutgod-com-on-buses-and-online/
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Querying an organization and getting an email back seems to me to be creating a primary source. However, the process is being used to verify facts not
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Bravo - this is excellent. I'm assuming that you accept that they are nonthesitic, given their acceptance of the IHEU Minimum statement on
Humanism? --
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I think some of the information on the page for the "American Humanist Association" is taken directly from their website without citing it.
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Much of the content was in the 1st person, and was directly advocating the AHA. "We welcome", "such outstanding members include", etc.
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http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2012/11/national-ad-campaign-promotes-kidswithoutgod-com-on-buses-and-online/
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130114082408/http://www.americanhumanist.org/AHA/Humanists_of_the_Year
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I would like to confirm a report that I had that there are 6,000 AHA members. Thanks. --
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https://web.archive.org/20130113032205/http://humanistcharities.org:80/pastprojects.php
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/20111025105246/http://mnatheists.org:80/content/view/15/27/
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https://web.archive.org/20110820002856/http://lgbthumanists.org/index.html
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10:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC) The AHA's membership is between 8000 and 9000.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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Following the example set by Dacoutts in verifying content on the
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Original research that creates primary sources is not allowed.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.americanhumanist.org/AHA/Humanists_of_the_Year
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I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
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632:Um, I think this is really starting to veer toward
708:It occurred to me that this may really fall under
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19:This is the
1052:Sourcecheck
847:—Preceding
148:free images
31:not a forum
1251:Categories
1238:Report bug
1122:Report bug
773:in the end
366:Skepticism
357:skepticism
317:Skepticism
1221:this tool
1214:this tool
1105:this tool
1098:this tool
973:Cheers. —
967:this tool
960:this tool
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1227:Cheers.—
1111:Cheers.—
886:cbignore
849:unsigned
804:Couttsie
783:Couttsie
684:Couttsie
673:Couttsie
600:Couttsie
566:Couttsie
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1145:my edit
1038:checked
1005:my edit
983::Online
935:checked
880:my edit
525:on the
393:on the
345:science
292:on the
199:C-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1046:failed
894:nobots
824:Plover
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656:Plover
614:Daniel
491:Alerts
205:scale.
126:Google
842:other
802:OK --
697:WP:OR
636:. On
634:WP:OR
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1042:true
939:true
857:talk
817:WP:V
710:WP:V
587:and
575:DAN
355:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1195:RfC
1165:to
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1044:or
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