Talk:Allan Hills 84001

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but only over timescales of hundreds of millions of years for dormant life. If the radiation levels were so high that a radioresistant microbe couldn't survive long enough to replicate and couldn't heal itself, it would be as hazardous as nuclear waste (since radiodurans lives in reactor cooling ponds) and humans would not survive for long at all. In actuality the levels of cosmic radiation are similar to the interior of the ISS and of course are easily survived by microbes on timescales of years, centuries, and indeed even millennia. Until recently scientists thought that there could be no liquid water exposed to the Mars surface for what seemed very good reasons - water and even ice would rapidly sublime into the near vacuum of the atmosphere. But recent discoveries starting with Phoenix in 2008 showed that liquid water can form on the surface of Mars through deliquescing salts, very salty but experiments in Mars simulation conditions show that it could, depending on the mix of salts, be habitable for salt tolerant extremophiles. Other research since then also showed that water can form in tiny droplets on salt / ice interfaces, also that the RSL features on Mars actually contain hydrated salts and are thought to have flowing thin films of salty water seasonally. Curiosity has also detected liquid water indirectly beneath the sand dunes it travels over (most think that particular habitat is too cold for life, Nilton Renno however thinks there is a possibility of microfilms making it locally habitable).

4026:"The reader can decide the extent to which the structures discovered in the Alan Hills meteorite resemble Earthly microbes. But in the decade following the initial publication of the meteorite's discovery, some in the biological community began to argue that the intriguing microbe-like structures could not be remnants of cells because of their small size, only 100 nanometers across. This was "too small" to be life. But too small for what form of life? The most frequently cited arguments against McKay's cell-like structures as the remnants of life compared their size to the size of the ribosome, the molecular machine used by terran life to make proteins. The ribosome is approximately 25 nanometers across. This means that the "cells" in Alan Hills 84001 can ohold only about four ribosomes - too few, supposed by many biologists, for a viable organism. The syllogism is clear. Proteins are necessary for life Ribosomes are necessary to make proteins. Martian cells are too small to hold ribosomes. Hence, Martian cells are too small to be life.... 3463:

some time on this topic with no problems at all, when one day when I was writing an article on the back contamination risks of samples returned from Mars, a troll came and wrote outrageous statements about me, saying that I was mentally deranged and promoting doomsday scenarios. There was no truth at all in what he said. He somehow managed to persuade several other people that he was telling the truth and they then went on a campaign together and removed all the content I had ever contributed to wikipedia on planetary protection issues, and in the process also, material on the present day habitability of Mars contributed by many authors was removed too (I added just a couple of sentences on that topic but that was enough for them to remove the entire topic from wikipedia). They finally rewrote the entire Planetary Protection article, until it was a nonsense of confused and mistaken material, much of it incoherent and some of it nothing to do with the topic.

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minority position. The problem is that a sample from Mars could in the most interesting scenario include life based on a completely different biology. The dangers from a return from Mars are similar to those from releasing artificial lifeforms created in a laboratory, for instance not based on DNA but PNA instead (something we may be able to experiment with in the laboratory in the near future). Though the risk may be low, hard to assess, most scientists think we should not take this risk and precautions are necessary in view of the possibility of harm to the ecosystems of Earth, not just to humans. For instance if the XNA based life took over from green algae in the sea, perhaps because it is more efficient at photosynthesis, that obviously would have a major impact on marine ecosystems, just by way of example.

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machinery comparable to that seen on Earth, the rules that govern minimum cell size may not be universal. In fact, as explored by Panel 3, there are a number of ways that living cells or fossils might fall below the minimum size deemed likely by cell biologists and ecologists. On Mars or Europa, fossils might preserve a record of biological systems different from those we understand—perhaps early products of evolution that made do with a small complement of functional molecules. Organisms of modern biochemistry might become small by being pathogens or living in consortia—that is, by using the products of another organism's genes. Or, fossils might preserve remains that shrank after death, or parts of organisms rather than complete cells—both are common in the terrestrial record."

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4029:"Why should proteins be universally necessary components of life? Could it be that Martian life has no proteins? Here, our earlier observations about the possibility of ancestral RNA-based life on Earth are relevant. Life forms in the putative RNA world (by definition) survived without encoded proteins and the ribosomes needed to assemble them. Thus, our additional "half example" of life on Earth refutes the "protein theory of life" and undermines the argument that the structures observed in the Alan Hills meteorite are too small to be remnants of living cells. If those structures represent a trace of an ancient RNA world on Mars, they would not need to be large enough to accomodate ribosomes (Benner 1999). The shapes in meteorite ALH84001 just 3140:"Why should proteins be universally necessary components of life? Could it be that Martian life has no proteins? Here, our earlier observations about the possibility of ancestral RNA-based life on Earth are relevant. Life forms in the putative RNA world (by definition) survived without encoded proteins and the ribosomes needed to assemble them. Thus, our additional "half example" of life on Earth refutes the "protein theory of life" and undermines the argument that the structures observed in the Alan Hills meteorite are too small to be remnants of living cells. If those structures represent a trace of an ancient RNA world on Mars, they would not need to be large enough to accomodate ribosomes (Benner 1999). The shapes in meteorite ALH84001 just 2640:

due to inorganic processes. We might well find more meteorites from Mars of the same age as this meteorite that clarify the situation, or evidence from our rovers from Mars may make it all clearer and prove either way that it is inorganic or that these are fossil microscopic lifeforms. That's common on Earth also, in particular evidence of early microscopic life on Earth is often controversial, with various fossils held to be microbes or stromatolites by some researchers and not by others, and then sometimes the situation is resolved by more data, e.g. presence of organics clearly dated to the time of origin of the structures. Microsocopic fossils of alleged early microbes on Earth are often particularly controversial.

3383:. I don't think it's going to be resolved by studying ALH84001 on its own, only by studying other Martian meteorites whenever we find them or studying in situ on Mars. The idea that Mars had life in the early solar system is certainly very respectable and many think it may still have life today and as I've tried to get mentioned in the Life on Mars article there are many teams of researchers currently researching into habitability of the warm seasonal flows and salt / ice interfaces and running tests with Earth microbes to see how they survive in similar environments etc. They certainly haven't given up on present day life on Mars and some of them are extremely optimistic about finding it while others are pessimistic. 3568:. ESA's ExoMars has search for past life as its primary objective but has the search for present day life as a secondary objective. So it's possible even in equatorial regions and this is no longer a minority view held by a few scientists like Gilbert Levin but a mainstream view of many of the researchers in this topic area. Also the DLR group in Germany in another development have found that some lichens and cyanobacteria are able to survive simulated Mars conditions in partial shade and even metabolise and photosynthesize without any water at all using only the 100% night time humidity on Mars - which causes the early morning frosts first seen in the Viking photos. 3283:

also don't have proteins and instead use the much less bulky rybozimes which are made up of fragments of RNA joined together. This makes it possible for an RNA World cell to be a fraction of the size of a DNA cell. Whatever early life was, it can't possibly have been DNA life as the system is far too complex to have arisen in one jump from non biological precursors. One possibility is that the simpler early precursors were also smaller than present day cells as well as simpler. None of that is fringe science and the limitations of size book was a publication of the National Research Foundation and the 2012 book was edited by distinguished editors

2807:, the work of DLR in Germany, of Nilton Renno highly respected leader of the Curiosity "Weather station on Mars" team and one of the top experts on surface conditions on Mars, and other top ranked researchers in the field. There was no justification for hiding the suggestion to include this material from the talk page. But as I said I've given up on the attempt to get that material included in wikipedia, but that doesn't make me a troll, it just makes me someone who has tried to get something notable included in wikipedia and failed - a common occurrence nowadays, sadly. 2938:"In any case the putative fossils appear to be far too small to represent living forms and could at best be appendages or fragments of organisms. The controversy over life in this Martian meteorite has now largely subsided with the consensus that abiotic processes provide more compelling explanations for all the observed evidence. However, the interest in ALH84001 has generated new research into the authenticity of various chemical and physical biomarkers and spawned a reinvigorated Mars exploration program focused on the search for life." 1739:

the weakest of the evidence. He said we know of no way to produce magnetite crystals of that purity, size, structure, and consistency except in bacteria. Either nature is more clever at making them than we think, he concluded, or they are terrestrial contamination, or they were made by Mars bugs. But he concludes, to accept the latter, you have to throw out all sorts of ideas about planetary chemistry and the origins of biology. Therefore, it's going to take a "complex suite of evidence and theory" for the proposition to be accepted.

808: 665: 3698:. For the same reason, we take precautions to make sure that harmful diseases are not released from biosafety laboratories, and take many precautions to make sure that experimental bioengineered and synthetic lifeforms created in laboratories can't replicate "in the wild". This is also written into the Outer Space Treaty and there are meetings of COSPAR, international scientists, every two years, to discuss the detailed provisions. We also have planetary protection officers - NASA's Planetary Protection Officer is 1075: 1054: 546: 519: 2418:). Galton's quotation from the end of this paper (given by Surowiecki on page XIII) actually refers to the surprising proximity of the median and the measurement, and not to the (much closer) agreement of mean and measurement (which is the context Surowiecki gives it in). The mean (only 1 pound, rather than 9, from the ox's weight) was only calculated in Galton's subsequent reply to a letter from a reader, though he still advocates use of the median over any of the "several kinds" of mean ( 2969:

modern life precursors. Older than the oldest lifeforms known from Earth. The discussions in the 1999 workshop mention this possibility frequently as well as the possibility of life based on different biochemistries from Earth life that might permit small sized cells. For some reason it seems to have been forgotten or rarely mentioned in more recent discussions, they tend to just look at the limitations of size of modern life. I don't know why that is. But they haven't disproved the

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re-analysing the raw Viking data of rather puzzling apparent circadian rhythms in the data not in sync with the temperature changes - and a whole range of views in between. I summarized it in my article here which I wrote as a draft for wikipedia summarizing the latest research much of it published only in the last two or three years - but it was never accepted for publication here so I published it on my science blog instead and as a kindle booklet:

3420:, for years, Robert has trolled the Mars-related articles at WP pushing his belief on current life on the surface of Mars and on an imminent fatal Martian invasion. For years, I have cleaned up after him. As I will for the years to come. When he reads that any inert physical environment may be potentially "habitable", he hears "inhabited", AND the Martians are going to kill us all as soon as any Mars sample-return mission happens. He will do 2498:

living microorganisms, the results were disappointing. The researchers offer alternate, equally possible, explanations of what was observed, using nonliving chemical processes. They argue that minerals can display biomimetic properties and even can produce structures that resemble terrestrial bacteria as well as more complex forms that resemble platelets and films by amorphous-to-crystalline transformations and by binding to substrates.

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which show a quarter of the hits using the formal name (about the same ratio as in publications). Contrast this with something like "NASA" or "BBC", where at most a few percent of google hits use the formal name. Finally, the Guidelines for Meteorite Nomenclature, published by the Meteoritical Society, say that correct usage is to write the full names of meteorites in titles

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got evidence of it already in ALH84001. If we do find early life though especially if it contains fossilized remains of precursors to DNA based life, it may well consist of tiny cells or in other ways be unlike present day life and hard to recognize. I think that's also a reasonably fair bet. Which of course doesn't prove that ALH84001 is that evidence :).

827: 3671:. I spend hours a week answering comments and messages from scared vulnerable people to reassure them that various doomsday hoax stories and videos are nonsense - to say I promote doomsday scenarios could hardly be further from the mark! I've removed the link now, since you objected, but I had no intention at all of promoting my blog here!!!! 4052:"Whereas Panels 1 and 2 indicated that a cell operating by known molecular rules—with DNA or maybe RNA, ribosomes, protein catalysts, and other conventional cell machinery—would have a lower size limit of 200 to 300 nm in diameter, Panel 4 suggested that primitive microorganisms based on a single-polymer system could be as small as a sphere 2773:"Whereas Panels 1 and 2 indicated that a cell operating by known molecular rules—with DNA or maybe RNA, ribosomes, protein catalysts, and other conventional cell machinery—would have a lower size limit of 200 to 300 nm in diameter, Panel 4 suggested that primitive microorganisms based on a single-polymer system could be as small as a sphere 3085:. However ALH84001 contains cell like structures of a wide variety of sizes, including ones the size of ultra microbacteria of 200 - 300 nm in diameter and all the way up to ones of 1 - 2 microns in size. So the magnetite doesn't have to be produced by the nanobacteria, if that's what they are. Or am I missing something. 3082:

viruses, then they calculated that the smallest features of ALH84001 could have 5 genes each of 1500 base pairs for ligase, replicase, monomer synthase, fatty acid synthase, and membrane synthase ribozymes, and then it was a question of whether that was enough for a primitive lifeform. Calculation here

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I never said any of the things he attributed to me, and far from promoting doomsday scenarios I am very active in debunking them on my science20 blog. But only Robert Zubrin and a very few others say that it is safe to return samples from Mars to Earth without taking any precautions at all. That is a

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At some point in the proceedings I tried to get the deletions reverted but the troll convinced the wikipedia administrators that I was a deranged troll and so I wasn't able to achieve that. Indeed, they were debating taking action against me. But none of the things he said about me were true. Finally

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to this day or has some alternative biology we have never encountered on Earth. And ALH84001 would only have fossils of early life. That's a good point, as far as I know in the 1999 workshop, they don't go into how such small microbes would create magnetite. A search of the book for "magnetite" turns

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I saw a mention of this in a new-ish Cosmochemistry textbook by McSween, where he says that scientific consensus has always been that these are not of biological origin, but that the controversy itself is significant to the history of the science. That's the POV I've been aiming at. I'll see if I can

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They found that though present day life can't be smaller in volume than the figures you retain in the article, that earlier forms of life could be as small as 50 nm in diameter, and they also cover other hypotheses for ALH84001 such as that they could be fragments of larger organisms. Do please check

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What's your reason for removing the material about the conclusions of the 1999 limitations of size workshop and the cite of this workshop? I know we've had our differences with me attempting to get you to include information about modern ideas for possibilities of present day surface and near surface

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Currently the section on "possible biogenic features" reads strongly pro-life. In particular the reference is strongly against the detection of life (just check out the title: "few believe life on Mars"), yet the citation to it in the section quotes only David McKay's pro-life statement. Considering

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I strongly recommend using the full, formal name on the article, and making sure that the abbreviation, with and without the space, redirects there. The policy for using abbreviations in titles says it must be "almost exclusively known only by its acronym and is widely known and used in that form."

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for the recently accepted articles in the same journal "waiting to be published" in an upcoming issue. No clue when this ALH84001 paper actually became available online, but it might be roughly August 6th, 1996. Apparently, the August 6th, 1996 date does not refer to the date of (online) publication

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My only reason for saying these things is to try to get this material included. I am not the least bit interested in participating in yet another debate here if there is no chance of this happening. I expect that if ExoMars or some other mission finds life on Mars in surface habitats, Knowledge will

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I do of course have views of my own, indeed very strong views which I have expressed on my science blog and talked about on David Livingston's "the Space Show" and presented in a talk to a conference on the search for life in the subsurface oceans of Europa and Enceladus in Oxford last summer. But I

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I understand that those who want to send humans to the Mars surface don't like to hear this. But many scientists do say that there is a realistic possibility of life in the surface habitats. You have said many times that cosmic radiation sterilizes the upper layers of the Mars surface. That is true,

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The article just covered the material on sample return hazard assessments by the NRC and the ESF and their recommendations to build a sample return containment facility as well as criticism by others including Carl Sagan, who consider that such a facility is not sufficiently safe, okay if the design

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But they do have an estimate of the number of genes of RNA based on ribozymes that could fit into a cell of the size of the smallest putative microbial features in ALH84001. It depends very much on how efficiently the genes are packed. If they are packed as efficiently as the most efficiently packed

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I agree that RNA based life is unlikely to survive on Earth except possibly in viruses, though there is the hypothesis of the nanobacteria which probably would be RNA based if they exist, however the current consensus seems to be that they are inorganic or at least, non biological, don't think there

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I've just added this as a new section. I was astonished to see that the article didn't even mention magnetite, the strongest evidence originally presented for life in the meteorite. Nor did it mention the carbonate modules or the workshop on the limitations of size for living cells which was held in

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6 paragraphs down in the "Possible biogenic features section" says "Other initial skepticism towards the biogenic hypothesis focused on the idea that the nanometer-sized filaments were too small to contain RNA, but evidence continues to grow that nanobacteria do exist in nature." However, the actual

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and it is those publications that do the peer review. Even fringe science should be published if notable and marked clearly as fringe. But this is not fringe science, it is just minority view science and in some cases majority view science nowadays due to changes of scientific opinion over the last

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which has numerous references, every statement in that article of any significance is cited, so you can follow them up to find out more about this research and the views of the researchers on the possibility of present day life on Mars. Hope this helps! My only wish is to improve wikipedia and make

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where I attempted to get the most recent research on habitability of the warm seasonal flows and other surface and near surface proposed habitats on Mars such as Nilton Renno's ice / salt interface droplets included, obviously this means this article is not going to mention the RNA World hypothesis

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for ALH84001 is still being talked about. It's not been refuted, nor is it fringe science, just a minority hypothesis that is still being entertained by some scientists, we have two notable cites, it's modern, and fits the wikipedia criteria for notability - unless I'm missing something it seems to

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when it says that any ancient RNA world would probably not leave identifiable traces in the rock record. I'm also taking it as an unstated assumption that any RNA world leftovers on Earth or Mars would have quickly either devoured by prokaryotes, or that they took on new careers as viruses. I would

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I agree, and so does Dr. Guy Consolmagno, now director of the Vatican Observatory. (Or he at least agreed in 2000, at the very end of Part 1 of his book, "Brother Astronomer.") Paraphrasing his comments, he noted that most of the press attention went to the worm-like structures, which he considered

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Nobody would argue that it isn't better known by its abbreviation. However, you are not correct about its use in publications: there are many that use the formal name. This is simply not a case where it is "almost exclusively" known by the abbreviation. You prove this with the google statistics,

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argued that the 1999 workshop cite is too old to be mentioned in the article - though he didn't come up with any later refutation of its conclusions by anyone else. The 2012 cite shows that these ideas are still current in my view. The 2012 cite validates the 1999 cite as still valid in my view so

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article. I don't know the reason but he has some kind of agenda on removing some of the material that supports possibilities of past or present day life on Mars. He says it is "peer review" (see above where he says "Peer-review is a b!tch, ain't it?") but according to its own guidelines, Knowledge

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There you go folks, again straight from the trolls mouth: Living Martians on the surface, death on Earth by Martians, SPAMING his paranoid web site, Knowledge ganged up on him (for no reason at all), and a world-wide scientific cover up. And don't even get him started on the "benevolent radiation

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saying they had to stop and leave that article to me, at which point they did stop and I was permitted to get that article back into shape again. You can see the quality of my work in this topic area from the current version of that article which is 50% my own work. I think it is obvious to anyone

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I tried to stop them with RfCs and such like but they just voted against me and said we have reached a "rough consensus", and deleted the articles anyway after letting the RfCs run for only a day or so without attempting to get an impartial third party to close the RfC. And reverted any attempts I

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Anyway on this article I certainly don't want the reader to take away the message that it is likely either. Just that it is a hypothesis that some scientists have entertained and continue to entertain. Many would say that life on Early Mars is quite likely, much fewer though would say that we have

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I am talking here about the hypothesis that the small cells in ALH84001 are RNA world cells. RNA World is not a fringe theory and RNA World cells can be much smaller than DNA cells because they have only one informational polymer instead of two which hugely reduces the complexity of the cell. They

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However, on the particular detail of whether the fossils are too small to be living cells - that may be true of a two-biopolymer system such as we have for all modern life, based on both RNA and DNA then the smallest structures in ALH84001 are probably too small, though there is evidence that some

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that it is not a fossil, and the hypothesis of life remains compatible with all the observations. But the bar is very high for proving existence of past or present day life on Mars, as indeed it should be, and most scientists would say the case has not been proven that this was life as it could be

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In Jan 2012, the results of a study by the Primordia Institute of New Sciences and Medicine and by grants from Chang Gung University (FMRPD2T02) and Ming Chi University of Technology (0XB0)were published. For those who were hoping that this analysis would confirm evidence for fossilized remains of

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If Mars's atmosphere at the time life started on Earth was like it is now, though, survival and propagation of any life form after arriving would be even less likely. The life form's native environment probably would be completely unlike anywhere it would land on Earth. Mars has an atmosphere many

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All of the facts included in this page are true, with the exception that it could not be confirmed to any reliable degree using radio-carbon 14 dating, since it is far too old. I would propose removing the reference to this test, since it doesn't apply to any object whose supposed arrival on earth

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This is not true, you have been mislead by a troll who deleted my work some years back. I have only asked for you to include the latest scientific research which shows that present day life on the surface of Mars is a possibility - microbial life and lichens. I had contributed to the articles for

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Yes, that source. I'm more interested in the gestalt that scientific consensus favors abiotic processes. Minimalist RNA-based lifeforms would seem to be a drastic retreat from the original McKay theory that has Martian bacteria precipiating magnetite and causing the precipitation of carbonates as

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as enzymes for cell replication, could be as small as a sphere 50 nm in diameter. Cells could also shrink after death, or the fossils could be remains of fragments of larger organisms, or they could be pathogens or symbiotes which depend on a host, or they could live in consortia of smaller cells

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They remind the reader that so-called nanobacteria described in geological samples as well as the putative nanobacteria observed in human body fluids and tissues have been shown to represent nonliving biomimetic mineral nanoparticles; and that Morphology is a poor indicator of biogenicity, and it

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The article states that "most experts agree", and somewhat later cites a reference from the Associated Press that the finding has been discredited. References should be from either scientific sources or from published surveys so that we do not have to simply trust that "most experts agree"... (I

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in diameter. There is no assurance that primordial cells would have been this small or, if they were, that such minute cells would have been more than transitory features of early evolution. Nonetheless, unless one is willing to posit that everywhere it has arisen, life has evolved a biochemical

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times thinner than that on top of Mount Everest, with almost no water. A life form evolved to survive in such conditions would almost invariably find dense air to be toxic, as it would the relatively high temperatures: even the Antarctic does not get as cold as much of Mars does most of the year.

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Several tests for organic material have been performed on the meteorite and amino acids and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) have been found. The debate if the organic molecules were created by nonbiological processes or are due to contamination from the contact with Antarctic ice is still

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I'm not sure I have a strong opinion on this either way. I just want the readership to take away that it's probably not something to get excited about, although minority opinions should get their views in as well. I agree with what seems to be BatteryIncluded's opinion that this life on Mars is

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Most of the discussion of the smallest cell size on Mars seems to focus on the smallest size for "life as we know it" in a two biopolymer RNA + DNA cell - but in the case of ALH84001 especially, you are talking about a sample from Mars only 400 million years after formation - it might well have

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article and you labeling me a troll for the attempt. I have given up on that, but I thought you would find this uncontroversial as it is about past rather than present day life, and it definitely fits the noteworthy criteria for wikipedia. It's a publication of the Space Studies Board of the

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There's a complete spectrum of views on this topic all the way from the view that it is unlikely, to, of course, Levin's view at the other extreme that it has already been detected by Viking - now also accepted as a possibility by a few other researchers based on the recent discovery through

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came up with no good reasons to remove it, and he is no longer contributing to wikipedia. I am not sure why - his talk page mentions a block for abusive language and another block for alleged sock puppetry - but I'm not sure if he is still blocked, or has voluntarily stopped editing here.

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I'm sorry if I missed it in the article be assumingly given all of the opposition to it being a lifeform there must be some suggestion to what it could instead be in that picture? Shouldn't this be expanded upon more or should we assume or is it just assumed it's a strangely shaped rock?

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worth a Nebula Award, and torture the references so that they will confess to anything. That is just in the Talk pages. He is all yours to entertain if you enjoy such dynamics. I was done with his paranoid project years ago, now I just delete the BS without feeding the troll. Cheers,

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However, a workshop on the limitations of size of microbes in 1999 found that though modern nanobacteria can't be smaller in volume than the interior of a sphere of diameter 250 ± 50 nm, primitive microorganisms based on a single-polymer system, for instance, RNA based, with

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Hello. It has been established as standard procedure at NASA that morphology alone cannot be used as a biosignature of microscopic life detection. The section of "student participation" -in any aspect of the original study- brings no information to this subjec. CHeers,

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suggests the announcement was brought forward due to a leak, possibly from the White House. It confirms that media reports began on 6 Aug and the press conference was on 7 Aug. It also implies that the paper was published online on 7 Aug, but doesn't say so explicitly.

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This is the material you removed. If you check out the cite, you'll see that I have summarized exactly what they say in the summary at the head of the book. Which was published in 1999 and mentions ALH84001 in the intro as one of the main motivations for the workshop.

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on August 6, if that's true and verifiable, that's what the blurb should say. If it's not true, or if something else happened, like an announcement at a press conference on August 7, that should be included in the article and this OTD updated/moved accordingly.

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reference concludes the exact opposite of that, stating that samples thought to be of nanbacterial origin are in fact derived from host cells, and "all fail to provide reasonable support for the existence of small microorganisms referred to as nanobacteria."

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The scientists' consensus is that it is not a fossil, and that microscopic shapes alone cannot be used as a reliable indication of life. Had it been a microfossil, the premise is that it resembles a chain of bacterial cocci (spheres), not a worm. Cheers,

1507:. The document is part of the November issue of the journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, the journal of the Geochemical and Meteoritic Society. Its authors are Kathie Thomas-Keprta, Simon Clement, David McKay, Everett Gibson and Susan Wentworth. - 3116:

I've just found a much more recent cite to the hypothesis that the structures in ALH84001 represent organisms from an RNA world. This is from a book published in 2012 by the Cambridge University Press, in the chapter "Towards a Theory of Life" by

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when their individual guesses were averaged (the average was closer to the ox's true butchered weight than the estimates of most crowd members, and also closer than any of the separate estimates made by cattle experts). Well the crowd was made of

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hypothesis for the ALH84001 cells. And anyway - surely Knowledge shouldn't have a blanket policy to exclude a particular topic such as present day habitability of Mars from the encyclopedia? It's certainly not a community decision to do so.

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I absolutely believe that the title should go back to ALH 84001. It's absolutely more well known: Google has 24,200 hits for ALH 84001, but only 7,070 for Allan Hills 84001, and I've only ever seen it as ALH 84001 in publications before.

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has a "proof" of the impossibility of life in surface liquid layers is based on an amalgation of citations that predate Phoenix and refer to dormant rather than active life. The mainstream view is that it is possible, to the extent that

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I think you are the one trolling me. Sorry to have to say so. But I'm not going to rise to it, and obviously this conversation is at an end unless someone else has any views on the matter. And as with our discussions on the talk page of

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Oh, I see. So in your view it probably would depend on finding some present day research suggesting this. Or could it be included as a historical note that back in 1999 researchers explored the possibility of 50 nm cells based on the

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Once again, why include mention of the limitation of 250 nm for modern life, and remove the limitation of 50 nm for precursors for modern life? And why remove the cite? Calling me a troll for attempting to get material restored on

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The results were announced at a press conference a few days before the print issue, which was post-dated anyway. It appears the press conference itself was on 7 August, not 6 August. The associated press release is dated 7 August

771: 648: 615: 529: 1420:"Around 1 in 10 million meteorites from Mars arrives in less than a year, and around 10 rocks that weigh more than 100 grams make the journey in 2-3 years." Can someone please rewrite this sentence so that it makes sense? -- 3744:

source and passes notability, there shouldn't be an additional step of peer review by a wikipedia editor. Note that this is not a community decision to exclude this material, it is an individual editorial decision by

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Whether or not you think the person advocating that the topic is included is a troll or not, it should be a question based on the notability of the topic. And if papers have been published and passed peer review in

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Well why include mention of the limitation of 250 nm for modern life, and remove the limitation of 50 nm for precursors for modern life? And why remove the cite? This is the section from the book which I summarized

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Moreover, nanobacteria have not been discredited; to the contrary, the evidence is growing that they do indeed exist. See for example the Knowledge article on Nanobacterium, particularly the findings in 2005-2006

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I have done a general edit of this section addressing the neutrality issue. In addition, I'd like to delete the "Student participation" section as it is irrelevant; Science is expected to be objective. CHeers,

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who was very active in promoting need for caution for sample returns from outside of Earth, and it also covered Zubrin's views that planetary protection is unnecessary and a full spectrum of views on the

1776:) ruled out contamination; the magnetite was incorporated during rock formation from an outside source and it excludes inorganic synthesis by heat alone; but it does not "prove" biogenic origin. Cheers, 4681: 4656: 776: 620: 3902:

has given for not mentioning RNA world cells hypothesis here is an ad hominem one. He claims that I am a troll because I wanted to restore a section on on planetary protection that was deleted from

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right to just remove mention of 50 nm RNA based cells as a possible explanation for the structures because it was based on the 1999 reference and is seldom mentioned nowadays? What do you think?

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in wikipedia. I've argued strongly that this does not make me a troll, not remotely so. Just someone who thinks that wikipedia is missing some material that I consider to be notable and to pass

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All this is mainstream science and I can provide links for all of that to highly rated scientific journals and papers and video presentations from conferences. See the citations for my article

1001:-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join 4716: 3393:]. The article is still there in case anyone decides that it is okay for wikipedia after all. I've done everything I can to make it as good as I possibly can and can't improve it any more. 4651: 3740:

because of this purported "proof" even though they have passed peer review. Knowledge should not undertake its own independent process of peer review like this! If it's published in a

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Recent studies on ALH 84001 have shown that, although chances are low, eventually, Martian rocks such as ALH 84001 could actually transfer Martian life to Earth. Bacterial spores, and

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The annoucement of the ALH84001 was first made by a NASA Press Release August, 7th 1996 with later statements of President Bill Clinton. The article in Science published August, 16th.

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Furthermore, microbiologists have successfully cultured nanobacteria in the lab, with sizes within the range of at least some of the purported microfossils in ALH 84001.<ref: -->

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indicative of life, and, by implication, life on Mars? Is that really true? If so, it needs to be clearly stated. If not then the wording needs adjusting to avoid the implication.

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cells hypothesis should be mentioned in the article. Please leave my hypothesized motives for suggesting this addition out of this discussion! Please just discuss whether it is

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would never suggest putting those views into an encyclopedia. Indeed I removed a cite of my blog from one of the planetary protection articles which someone else added, as not

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well. That seems like the kind of biochemical toolkit you would need lots of genes and a significant proteome for. One of the sources you gave seems to have alluded to that

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See McKay, D. S. & Gibson Jr., E. K. (1996). Search for past life on Mars: Possible relic biogenic activity in Martian meteorite ALH84001. Science 273(5277): 924-931.

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in the middle of that debate he suddenly announced that he was leaving wikipedia and the action was closed with no conclusion. That's how it unfolded from my perspective.

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Nevertheless, evidence continues to grow that nanobacteria do exist, in spite of initial skepticism (based on the idea that the particles were too small to contain RNA).

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And apparently also for similar reasons, though I don't see the connection myself, it won't mention the hypothesis that the smallest structures in ALH84001 could be

2959:. A 50 nm cell would be too small to contain much by way of ribosomes at 20 nm diameter even for prokaryotes, but it could contain the much smaller ribozymes of the 4711: 1705:

I assume the cube with 'N1' written on it next to the meteorite is there for scale - but what scale is it? Is it 1cm3? Could it be clarified in the caption please?

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according to the criteria of wikipedia in my view, because it presented my own personal views on the topic in a personal blog, and was not a peer reviewed paper.

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And indeed there is evidence of a possible RSL on Mount Sharp as a result of which they may have to do a large detour to prevent it from contaminating them. See

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article as a basis, and re-read the original 1999 paper and some other material and then wrote up this list of some of the main hypothetical biogenic features.

1125: 4463:. So the news story took off on the 6th but the research team did not present their results until the 7th. Not sure what to recommend here (and I have a CoI). 4696: 4646: 4626: 3664:

My most recent article is a petition to ask Youtube to stop running ads on doomsday videos because they cause vulnerable people to become suicidal and scared

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my proposal that juries should openly adopt the median when estimating damages, and councils when estimating money grants, has independent merits of its own

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has a "hypothesis" that competes with yours: There are invisible pink unicorns all over Mars. Can we add it too, Troll? Peer-review is a b!tch, ain't it?

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and published by the Cambridge University Press. Nothing in any of this raises fringe science warning flags as far as I can see. Please explain yourself.

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The aim of the National Research Council, the European Space Foundation, Carl Sagan, Joshua Lederberg and all those who have written on this topic is to

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There is a new news release today on new data obtained from this meteorite. Here it is for those interested in incorporating its info into this article:

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Oh, I think it is like microbial fossils on Earth. There's a lot of controversy about those too. See section 3.3 recognizing microfossils in this paper

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need to see a diff of specific content before giving a definitive opinion, but generally speaking if nobody's still talking about it then probably not.

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What about the debate that they were created by biological processes on Mars? That seems to be the main point of interest, and it's not even mentioned.

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1. A chapter in the book "Frontiers of Astrobiology" published in 2012 by the Cambridge University Press, in the chapter "Towards a Theory of Life" by

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the wealth of contrary information in the citation, some very detailed, I think this is a blatant breach of neutrality. As such I've added a NPOV tag.

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This appears to be in conflict with the claim, later in the same paragraph, that the rock was blasted off the surface of Mars 4.5 billion years ago.

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You could write it into the article. The source sounds reliable, and if you have the book on hand, you'd be eminently suited to adding it yourself.

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Why no mention of the magnetite grains? As I recall, these were central to the debate over whether there was evidence of life in the meteorite. --

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As of 2006, some experts still argue that the microfossils are not indicative of life, but instead are caused by contamination by earthly biofilms.

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sure it is comprehensive and accurate in this topic area and I have no wish to promote any particular view on the topic here over any other view.

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worked perfectly but could release Mars organisms in case of accidents and lapses of procedure, and from the Nobel prize winning microbiologist

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Introduction (page XII): Although Surowiecki's description of the "averaging" calculation (page XIII) implies that Galton first calculated the

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they probably won't let Curiosity approach closer to the RSL on Mount Sharp than a few kilometers to avoid contaminating it with Earth life

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Also it is a respectable hypothesis that the two biopolymer system was preceded by a single biopolymer system as that after all is the

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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you could have in this topic area. Anyway I'd better stop, I see I've been drawn into yet another of these strange discussions with

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unable to survive independently on their own, or they could be based on biological systems different from the ones we understand.

4601: 3946:. That's the only thing to consider when deciding whether to include it. So anyway I'll summarise the evidence in a new section. 2421: 1342:. However I have no objection for the use of the full official name. In my opinion the point is to use an official denomination. 1253: 1158: 876: 853: 553: 524: 4043:

2. The 1999 workshop on Limitations of Size published by the =Soace Studies board and published by the National Academy Press.

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and has tried to get included on that basis. But whatever your views on that, it has nothing at all to do with the topic of the

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From what I've read elsewhere, I thought this whole "nanobacteria" idea had now been consigned to the dustbin of science...

4283: 657: 443: 434: 386: 74: 2791:- along with later material on RNA life based on ribozymes in the section by Panel 4 later in the book. I am not a troll. 1593:

The age estimate of this rock has been revised down to 4.091 billion years, based upon lutetium-hafnium isotope analysis.

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are speculated to survive in space for 5 years, meaning transfer of Martian life to our planet is theoretically possible.

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Allan Hills 84001#RNA World Hypothesis and other proposals that could be consistent with such small structures as cells

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is sincere and heavily cited to modern journals including the 2013 conference on the Present Day Habitability of Mars

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that's the only criterion. Even if you have a "proof" that it is impossible - wikipedia doesn't do peer review, the

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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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With Mars, however, until we have evidence of what is actually there, there's the possibility that it is still an

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A a good point to mention, since McKay was involved, but keep unbiased. The experiments, observations and models (

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

4084:. Note that Benner, the principal author of the 2012 cite, is one of the contributors to the 1999 workshop with 4408:, it said "Science 16 Aug 1996: Vol. 273, Issue 5277, pp. 924-930" which I assume means it was published in 4153: 4132: 4108: 3987: 3951: 3876: 3817: 3609: 3404: 3354: 3300: 3229: 3169: 3090: 2991: 2869: 2812: 2732: 2675: 2645: 1512: 1347: 1305: 1290: 1847: 1833: 1813:

That's strange, because I also see neutrality problems with this section, but for the exact opposite reason.--

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finally get edited to say that Mars surface life is possible and include the results of all this research??

1460:"Some experts still" sounds like a dwindling minority view. So, the majority view is that the microfossils 4271: 2491: 2273: 2251: 2228: 2111: 2107: 2050: 1901: 1257: 1216:

Is the comment about the word "Exogenesis" really necessary? It just redirects to the Panspermia article.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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find that source and add it. The last really secondary source in the article is a news piece from 2006.

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starting to look like a non-falsifiable construct, but Cambridge University Press is usually reliable.

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Your Martian invasion prophesy could be a notable story for the cheap tabloids, not Knowledge, Troll.

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National Research Council in the US - you can't get much more establishment / noteworthy than that.

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I think it is more accurate to say that the consensus of many - but not all scientists - is that it

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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of the report, but the date when a presentation was given at a news conference, as explained on

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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Steven a. Benner, Paul Davies, editors: Chris Impey, Jonathan Lunine, José Funes (15 Nov 2012).

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cells from early life precursors either, although I gave excellent cites - the most reliable of

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on 16 August, not 6 August? Perhaps someone with some subject-matter expertise could opine.

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To anyone reading this the "Do not feed the Trolls" sticker is just an individual decision by

3381: 3370: 3118: 3014: 2921: 2801: 2358: 2240: 2179:"? If so... that is very good indeed. No Martians here, keep walking. Keep walking. Cheers, 1888: 1804: 1759: 761: 442:

resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the

51: 24: 4442: 4394: 4009: 3699: 3519: 2602: 2538: 2433: 2409: 2014:'s (1822-1911) surprise that the crowd at a county fair accurately guessed the weight of an 1601: 1425: 868: 847: 694: 486: 268: 4355: 2805: 4223: 4012:(notable as the first person to synthesize a gene amongst many other accomplishments) and 3935:

do that and it is up to the reviewers of the journals to provide those arguments, not us.

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The only question under consideration here should be whether these cites are notable and

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the cite as I have only just added this and perhaps you haven't had time to read it yet.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130123132429/http://astrobiology.ucla.edu/pages/res3e.html

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tick all the boxes for a mention in wikipedia, shouldn't it be included in the article?

3083: 2542: 2445:); he thinks the median, which is analogous to the 50% +1 vote, particularly democratic. 4314:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2503: 2011: 1880: 1864: 1660: 1558: 1505: 423: 4429: 4354:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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shouldn't do peer review. It should publish anything that is notable and published in

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hypothesis AFAIK. Just don't tend to mention it in the context of ALH84001 any more.

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http://clinton6.nara.gov/1996/08/1996-08-07-remarks-by-president-upon-departure.html

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and because I want to restore a section on present day habitability of Mars to the

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I'd like to point out - in this entire conversation thread, the only argument that

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Feel free to update the article accordingly. I shouldn't edit it as I have a CoI.

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http://www.uni-muenster.de/Planetologie/en/members/stephan/Stephan_MAPS38_109.html

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List of features ≠ list of hypotheses. Besides, I do not feed trolls, remember?

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It is not uncommon to have papers published online ahead of print. Please see

4320:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 4249:. Soace Studies board, National Research Council,NATIONAL ACADEMY PRESS. 1999. 3006: 2957: 1725: 975: 893: 785: 684: 558: 413: 324: 258: 4456: 4435:

https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-08-06-mars-life_x.htm

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I just linked to my blog to show that I regularly debunk doomsday scenarios.

2392:, inspection of the original 1907 paper indicates that Galton considered the 2264:? If so please let's switch to our talk pages or, better, in private e-mails: 1652: 4096: 3939: 3919: 3835: 3797: 3160: 3064: 3033: 2970: 2960: 2953: 2720: 2716: 2260: 1659:

article calls into doubt the idea that nanobacteria are living organisms. --

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Why choosing a single undergraduate female student for just two weeks? Huh?

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Size Limits of Very Small Microorganisms: Proceedings of a Workshop (1999)

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Size Limits of Very Small Microorganisms: Proceedings of a Workshop (1999)

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environment" on the surface of Mars. Feed him another cookie. I won't.

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modern cells are of sizes approaching this (see page 19 of this report

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Wow, you know a number of "experts" who do not agree? I'm impressed.

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So I think you can say that this hypothesis of small cells from an

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after it was deleted is no answer, it's just changing the subject!

2258:"... Huh? Should we stop here our walk or should we engage in some 3834: 3997:

RNA World Cells Hypothesis - summary of the cites - do they pass

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No. Fringe is fringe is fringe is fringe. A Martian invasion is

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Towards a Theory of Life, in Frontiers of Astrobiology (Page 37)

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for the structures on ALH84001. Though I have no idea why not.

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reading it that it is not the writings of a deranged troll :).

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is much research going on in support of nanobacteria any more.

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thanks for your general edits addressing the neutrality issue.

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why use an abbreviation. The real name is Allan Hills 84001--

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The last two links in the External Link category do not work.

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This name fails the exclusive test and is not an acronym. --

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NASA Weighs Use of Rover to Image Potential Mars Water Sites

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for this meteorite is ALH 84001 and it is equally common. —

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They never get anywhere so what's the point in continuing?

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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I plan to reinstate this material in the next day or two.

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makes forum interactions more *interesting* indeed. Ahem,

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34 mentions in the section on the conclusions of Panel 4

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was far past the acceptable threshhold of RC-14 dating.

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and that was also the date of Bill Clinton's statement

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http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/eisromanek.html</ref: -->

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Low-importance Australian Antarctic Territory articles

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Mid-importance Australian Antarctic Territory articles

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Well either way, the article says it was published in

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Removal of conclusions of limitations of size workshop

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Anyway I took some material recently deleted from the

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ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/pressrel/1996/96-160.txt

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Typical troll reply. Here it goes for the nth time:

3121:(microbiologist at the University of California) and 2110:"? If so... that is so sad indeed ... :O/... Cheers. 1559:"Transpermia - microbes hitch a ride between planets" 1152:

A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge's

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Everything I said on the talk page for Life on Mars

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Theories on what the unknown "worm" object could be?

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And this "single blind" experiment IMHO seems a bit

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https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/recent

4404:- I'm no expert but when I clicked on the link to 4324:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2042:... woman! LOL... I hope you caught my drift... ;O) 3970:Possibility of enough liquid water to support life 2658:List of Hypothetical Biogenic features in ALH84001 2502:should not be used as the sole evidence for life. 4717:B-Class Palaeontology articles of High-importance 3224:What does that comment have to do with anything? 2494:please may I offer this additional information: 4033:be fossil organisms from a Martian "RNA world". 3144:be fossil organisms from a Martian "RNA world". 2978:I don't know what that means for wikipedia. Was 2415:the middlemost estimate expresses the vox populi 709:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 4652:B-Class Australian Antarctic Territory articles 4049: 4024: 3324:1) Bull shit. they are not cells. 2) My friend 3138: 2936: 2770: 2712: 4310:This message was posted before February 2018. 2892: 2890: 2398:the best reflection of the crowd's estimate. ( 1398:. We should try to do it correctly here too. 1300:I suggest to move it... is there any comment? 717:. If you would like to participate, visit the 4572:B-Class Astronomy articles of High-importance 4288:http://astrobiology.ucla.edu/pages/res3e.html 1871:As well, AFAIC, there is no such thing as a " 772:the Australian Antarctic Territory work group 174: 8: 4493:Good stuff, all needs to go in the article. 4145:Have just added it in as a new section, see 3910:article and want to include the material in 3702:. You couldn't be more mainstream than this. 1234:know a number of experts who do Not agree). 280:, which collaborates on articles related to 4103:and whether it should be included. Thanks! 1860:"(...) From what I've read elsewhere (...)" 4266:I have just modified one external link on 3839:Please do not feed the trolls. Thank you. 2340:"After 10 years, few believe life on Mars" 1653:http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/eisromanek.html 1048: 943: 842: 632: 513: 375: 216: 4229:CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list ( 3968:was responsible for removing the section 3938:So the question is, does the material on 3485:stepped in when they did that rewrite of 616:Australian Antarctic Territory work group 4617:High-importance B-Class Geology articles 4662:Australian Antarctic Territory articles 4184:was invoked but never defined (see the 4170: 2886: 2521: 2422:"Letters to the Editor: The Ballot-Box" 2330: 1549: 1050: 945: 844: 634: 515: 377: 218: 188: 4712:High-importance Palaeontology articles 4259:External links modified (January 2018) 4219: 4209: 3912:Draft:Present day habitability of Mars 3583:Draft:Present day habitability of Mars 2633:could be formed by inorganic processes 2575: 2571: 2559: 2548: 2368: 2367: 2356: 1200:See Press Release from White House at 4732:High-importance Microbiology articles 4597:High-importance Solar System articles 3723:The current material in wikipedia in 1983:Science is expected to be objective. 7: 4762:Selected anniversaries (August 2023) 4757:Selected anniversaries (August 2020) 4752:Selected anniversaries (August 2019) 4747:Selected anniversaries (August 2016) 4742:Selected anniversaries (August 2011) 2719:(catalytic RNA) taking the place of 1334:Well, because it is more common the 1080:This article is within the scope of 991:This article is within the scope of 874:This article is within the scope of 551:This article is within the scope of 274:This article is within the scope of 4697:High-importance Skepticism articles 4647:High-importance Antarctica articles 4627:High-importance Meteorites articles 4176: 4080:long as both cites are accepted as 2543:10.1146/annurev-earth-042711-105401 2171:Doesn't make you think that maybe " 2102:Doesn't make you think that maybe " 1011:Knowledge:WikiProject Palaeontology 207:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 4722:WikiProject Palaeontology articles 4677:High-importance Australia articles 4567:High-importance Astronomy articles 3477:made to stop them. Anyway finally 2466:) 10:25, 4 July 2015 (UTC)Allan M. 2272:unfortunately. Catch U L8R... :O) 2238:... honestly I was thinking about 1439:This section seems muddled to me: 1100:Knowledge:WikiProject Microbiology 1014:Template:WikiProject Palaeontology 793:Need help improving this article? 14: 4737:WikiProject Microbiology articles 4270:. Please take a moment to review 2030:people (800 tickets were issued). 1526:I removed the following section: 1103:Template:WikiProject Microbiology 4612:High-importance Geology articles 4388: 2663:1999 soon after the discovery. 1145: 1073: 1052: 978: 968: 947: 906:Knowledge:WikiProject Skepticism 867: 846: 825: 687: 677: 663: 656: 636: 571:Knowledge:WikiProject Antarctica 544: 517: 416: 406: 379: 261: 251: 220: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 4702:WikiProject Skepticism articles 4667:WikiProject Antarctica articles 3942:cells pass this requirement of 3669:David Morrison (astrophysicist) 1557:Paine, Michael (October 1996). 1196:See Press Release from NASA at 1189:The annoucement of the ALH84001 1120:This article has been rated as 1031:This article has been rated as 926:This article has been rated as 909:Template:WikiProject Skepticism 747:This article has been rated as 727:Knowledge:WikiProject Australia 591:This article has been rated as 574:Template:WikiProject Antarctica 472:This article has been rated as 310:This article has been rated as 290:Knowledge:WikiProject Astronomy 4707:B-Class Palaeontology articles 4687:WikiProject Australia articles 4113:10:52, 19 September 2016 (UTC) 3992:22:26, 21 September 2016 (UTC) 3956:10:52, 19 September 2016 (UTC) 3881:22:05, 18 September 2016 (UTC) 3849:18:26, 18 September 2016 (UTC) 3822:20:19, 18 September 2016 (UTC) 3641:15:15, 18 September 2016 (UTC) 3614:13:53, 18 September 2016 (UTC) 3435:04:02, 17 September 2016 (UTC) 3409:03:29, 17 September 2016 (UTC) 3375:02:50, 17 September 2016 (UTC) 3359:00:22, 17 September 2016 (UTC) 3338:21:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3305:21:27, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3252:14:04, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3234:13:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3204:13:30, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3174:03:29, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3095:01:13, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 3019:00:25, 16 September 2016 (UTC) 2996:22:45, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2926:20:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2874:18:31, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2839:15:46, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2817:15:27, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2752:13:57, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2737:13:52, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2680:11:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2650:11:35, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 2420:Galton, Francis (1907-03-28). 2400:Galton, Francis (1907-03-07). 1809:02:52, 12 September 2012 (UTC) 1500:"new secrets of possible life" 1430:02:50, 28 September 2008 (UTC) 821:can be contacted via email to 730:Template:WikiProject Australia 530:Australian Antarctic Territory 293:Template:WikiProject Astronomy 1: 4727:B-Class Microbiology articles 4592:B-Class Solar System articles 4582:High-importance Mars articles 4206:. Cambridge University Press. 4158:21:04, 11 February 2017 (UTC) 2623:00:42, 27 November 2013 (UTC) 2607:19:16, 26 November 2013 (UTC) 1734:22:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC) 1669:23:54, 11 December 2010 (UTC) 1517:18:00, 25 November 2009 (UTC) 1494:01:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC) 1408:14:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC) 1390:06:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC) 1262:04:40, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 1094:and see a list of open tasks. 1005:and see a list of open tasks. 900:and see a list of open tasks. 833:for non-editorial assistance. 799:National Library of Australia 769:This article is supported by 613:This article is supported by 565:and see a list of open tasks. 494:This article is supported by 452:Knowledge:WikiProject Geology 356:This article is supported by 332:This article is supported by 42:Put new text under old text. 4637:WikiProject Geology articles 4378:15:48, 21 January 2018 (UTC) 4137:12:30, 4 February 2017 (UTC) 2531:Annu. Rev. Earth Planet. Sci 2338:Crenson, Matt (2006-08-06). 2306:17:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC) 2189:14:01, 28 January 2013 (UTC) 2098:21:03, 27 January 2013 (UTC) 2083:18:47, 27 January 2013 (UTC) 1971:You surely have my personal 1951:16:51, 16 January 2013 (UTC) 1934:08:40, 10 January 2013 (UTC) 1838:20:58, 8 November 2012 (UTC) 1655:) does not work for me. The 1474:Does this mean nanobacteria 455:Template:WikiProject Geology 4692:B-Class Skepticism articles 4642:B-Class Antarctica articles 4622:B-Class Meteorites articles 4523:Stay indoors, stay safe!!!! 4500:Stay indoors, stay safe!!!! 4419:Stay indoors, stay safe!!!! 1977:"==Student participation==" 1975:for temporarly hiding the 1823:17:53, 2 October 2012 (UTC) 818:Wikimedia Australia chapter 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 4778: 4672:B-Class Australia articles 4562:B-Class Astronomy articles 4541:12:21, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4528:10:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4505:10:38, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4489:10:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4472:10:26, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4447:10:12, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4424:09:23, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 4386: 4341:(last update: 5 June 2024) 4263:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 4095:. If they are, surely the 1786:17:59, 2 August 2016 (UTC) 1764:09:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC) 1749:08:50, 2 August 2016 (UTC) 1715:10:06, 6 August 2011 (UTC) 1608:19:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC) 1126:project's importance scale 1037:project's importance scale 932:project's importance scale 753:project's importance scale 597:project's importance scale 478:project's importance scale 316:project's importance scale 3194:happening. Live with it. 2512:20:53, 29 July 2013 (UTC) 1695:17:53, 7 April 2011 (UTC) 1633:14:49, 24 July 2014 (UTC) 1295:19:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC) 1247:17:46, 5 April 2007 (UTC) 1119: 1068: 1030: 994:WikiProject Palaeontology 963: 925: 862: 826: 814: 792: 768: 746: 672: 612: 590: 539: 497:the Meteorites task force 493: 471: 401: 355: 331: 309: 246: 215: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 4607:B-Class Geology articles 4587:Mars task force articles 2931:You probably mean this? 2476:10:25, 4 July 2015 (UTC) 2034:They didn't just sell a 2006:The opening anecdote of 1373:17:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 1352:05:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 1326:22:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC) 1310:13:34, 7 July 2008 (UTC) 1083:WikiProject Microbiology 715:Australia-related topics 4602:Solar System task force 2490:Whoever owns this page 2342:. Associated Press (on 1532:rock dwelling organisms 1221:08:48, 7 May 2006 (UTC) 703:is within the scope of 359:Solar System task force 4061: 4035: 3851: 3146: 2940: 2782: 2726: 2529:Martel, Jan (2012). . 2454:Carbon 14 used to date 2175:" is slowly killing " 1895:Thanks for reading me. 1017:Palaeontology articles 877:WikiProject Skepticism 811: 789: 765: 609: 554:WikiProject Antarctica 490: 430:Talk:Allan Hills 84001 352: 328: 197:This article is rated 75:avoid personal attacks 4577:B-Class Mars articles 3904:Human mission to Mars 3838: 3736:can't be included in 2862:Human mission to Mars 2254:" is not synonim of " 2106:" is slowly killing " 1283:official abbreviation 1106:Microbiology articles 810: 788: 764: 706:WikiProject Australia 608: 489: 446:for more information. 351: 327: 277:WikiProject Astronomy 100:Neutral point of view 4322:regular verification 4180:The named reference 3487:Planetary protection 2911:Thought it was dead? 2858:Planetary protection 2697:life on Mars in the 2492:Talk:BatteryIncluded 2252:NASA standardisation 2223:Hypotheses non fingo 2008:Wisdom of the crowds 1879:Please compare the " 105:No original research 4632:Meteorites articles 4312:After February 2018 1885:Demarcation problem 1578::: NASA Quest : --> 986:Paleontology portal 912:Skepticism articles 649:Antarctic Territory 577:Antarctica articles 435:WikiProject Geology 4366:InternetArchiveBot 4317:InternetArchiveBot 4222:has generic name ( 3852: 3240:WP:Fringe theories 2570:Unknown parameter 2261:tap dance together 1873:dustbin of science 1865:cite clear sources 1644:From the article: 812: 790: 766: 733:Australia articles 610: 491: 353: 329: 296:Astronomy articles 203:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 4526: 4503: 4422: 4402:Allan Hills 84001 4383:Announcement date 4342: 4268:Allan Hills 84001 3960:Also just to say 3734:entire topic area 3119:Steven E. Brenner 2802:Talk:Life_on_Mars 2366:External link in 2038:ticket to an ... 1889:Consensus reality 1685:comment added by 1636: 1619:comment added by 1484:comment added by 1186: 1185: 1140: 1139: 1136: 1135: 1132: 1131: 1047: 1046: 1043: 1042: 942: 941: 938: 937: 841: 840: 837: 836: 701:Allan Hills 84001 631: 630: 627: 626: 512: 511: 508: 507: 374: 373: 370: 369: 183: 182: 66:Assume good faith 43: 25:Allan Hills 84001 4769: 4520: 4518:The Rambling Man 4497: 4495:The Rambling Man 4416: 4414:The Rambling Man 4392: 4391: 4376: 4367: 4340: 4339: 4318: 4299: 4251: 4250: 4241: 4235: 4234: 4227: 4221: 4217: 4215: 4207: 4197: 4191: 4190: 4189: 4183: 4175: 4125: 4078: 4010:Steven A. 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They haven't 2615:BatteryIncluded 2594: 2589: 2588: 2587: 2569: 2557: 2547: 2528: 2527: 2523: 2488: 2483: 2456: 2451: 2450: 2449: 2419: 2404: 2399: 2385: 2381: 2365: 2355: 2349: 2347: 2337: 2336: 2332: 2299: 2298: 2293: 2292: 2283: 2282: 2275: 2274: 2259: 2245: 2239: 2227: 2181:BatteryIncluded 2137: 2136: 2131: 2130: 2121: 2120: 2113: 2112: 2104:standardisation 2090:BatteryIncluded 2076: 2075: 2070: 2069: 2060: 2059: 2052: 2051: 2023: 1976: 1957:BatteryIncluded 1943:BatteryIncluded 1927: 1926: 1921: 1920: 1911: 1910: 1903: 1902: 1858: 1796: 1778:BatteryIncluded 1722: 1703: 1680: 1676: 1674:False Reference 1642: 1614: 1591: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1576: 1572: 1563: 1561: 1556: 1555: 1551: 1524: 1502: 1479: 1437: 1418: 1270: 1231: 1214: 1191: 1122:High-importance 1105: 1102: 1099: 1096: 1095: 1063:High‑importance 1062: 1033:High-importance 1016: 1013: 1010: 1007: 1006: 984: 979: 977: 958:High‑importance 957: 928:High-importance 911: 908: 905: 902: 901: 857:High‑importance 856: 824: 822: 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