910:. If someone says they work in retail today, it means a brick and mortar store, not an ecommerce site. It is not reasonable say BPF is a straight up "pawnbroker", because that implies a store where you bring the personal items to secure the loan. This is a new and innovative business model. It is of course understandable that people would call this an "online pawnbroker", because that describes the business in terms that people understand using common vernacular. When you say a company is a pawnbroker it has brick and mortar connotations that don't apply to BPF, such as walking into the store and seeing all the stuff people hocked that is now for sale. That aspect of pawnbroking isn't part of the BPF business. Also BPF will make loans with boats as collateral. That's why a Borro spokesperson said "We lend more than a pawnbroker". She is comparing their business to the pawnbroking industry. The problem is that with BPF, as with many new business models, the new nomenclature, doesn't take right away. In this case, BPF uses "personal asset lending", but people don't know what that means. It's appropriate to use "personal asset lender" to describe the new business model, even if BPF invented the term. They innovated in the market and named their new innovation. Eventually this may become the vernacular. At the same time, saying "online pawnbroker" makes sense to help readers understand the new business using older terminology. That's what the sources are doing. To me the right course is to use new terminology in the introductory sentence: "Borro Private Finance (previously known as Borro) is a UK-US-based personal asset lender that offers loans secured on luxury assets." The term "online pawnbroker" can be used later to describe the business in lay terms, as opposed to defining the business that way. To insist that BPF is inarguably a pawnbroker is in my view incorrect.
707:
company does, it makes loans based on taking goods as collateral. I suspect that the company does not want to use the term in its marketing because of its image but that does not change the what it does. If you have a good reason that pawnbroker is not suitable description please discuss it on the article talk page and try and get some consensus from other editors. Saying stop editing the page is not a good reason. I am not sure if you are in anyway associated with the company but if you are please also see
730:"In lending agreements, collateral is a borrower's pledge of specific property to a lender, to secure repayment of a loan. The collateral serves as a lender's protection against a borrower's default and so can be used to offset the loan if the borrower fails to pay the principal and interest satisfactorily under the terms of the lending agreement." I'd say that these two descriptions are even more pertinent than the Pawnbroker one. Thanks, looking forward to your reply.
464:
230:
282:
261:
375:
354:
201:
385:
906:
businesses want to differentiate themselves from the more traditional "old school" industry. The word "retailer" is appropriate for a brick and mortar store, and not for an online ecommerce site. When the business model of retail went online, such as with Amazon, people would say "online retailer", to convey a new business model. Then the term evolved to
929:
has said. The fact of the matter is that BPF uses an innovative business model and completely rebranded and changed the way the business operated last year. Look at the older references in the media, the company isn't called "Borro" anymore, and the business has completely changed the the way it does business. Companies are constantly innovating.
1149:
Came here in response to the RFC above but clearly cant understand what all the fluff and trivia, some of it unreferenced that is "In the Media" most has no relevance to understanding the company. Either delete or a serious cull is required but as a "drop by" user perhaps the regulars can perform the
928:
Quite frankly, I think that
Coastside sums up the point I've been trying to make this whole time. While describing the company as an "online pawnbroker" may help the average person understand the company and how it operates better, saying defiantly that BPF is a pawnbroker is incorrect - as Coastside
767:
Hi
Cedichee, I understand your rational and happy to have both terms linked in the opening line, but I still feel that pawnbroker is the better description. I appreciate that the company does not want to categorize itself as a pawnbroker because of the perceived negative connotations but this is not
706:
Please note that everybody is free to edit pages on
Knowledge which is a key tenet of the Knowledge. Even your own explanation is exactly what a pawnbroker does. I see you keep removing the pawnbroker term from the article Borro. Having looked at the definition of Pawnbroker this is exactly what the
656:
and I have added this link a few times to this article. It is a clear from some of the references that the company does not like this term and there have been a number of attempts to remove this from the lead. It may be this is from users that have connection to the company. To make sure we keep a
1181:
I also concur, and would go as far as saying that the whole section should be deleted. Whilst I appreciate the effort it would have taken for this list to be put together, the reality is that it adds nothing of substance to the article. Any material which others deem should be preserved should be
905:
At first this debate reminded me of when ads for car dealerships started using the term "pre-owned" instead of "used". However, I think it's important to recognize that new business models and other innovations often introduce a change in nomenclature. And it's understandable that innovative
975:
is an ok term to me. At
Knowledge we only follow what the sources are using, and until there is a newfangled name for this type of lending and the sources accept it, then let's just use the good 'ole term we have been using even clearly the article's subject PR department doesn't like it.
1057:
Asset-based lender - as used in this page - seems to be a branding or marketing phrase. The outline of the company's services qualifies it as pawnbroker. The term asset-based lender is also repeated in the body so once consensus is reached, they need modification for consistency.
949:
While I understand that businesses innovate and want to market their innovation with new nomenclature, it is not
Knowledge's purpose to assist in promotion of its use. Instead Knowledge should reflect the terminology and language currently used in
679:
Please stop editing the page. The company does not operate like a pawn broker, it operates like a secure lender that uses collateral to determine the value of the loan. I ask you kindly to please stop editing the page and focus on another
997:
RS refers to the company as a pawnbroker, I would not use that in the lead, as the media at large in that case doesn't prefer the term. If there is just a tiny bit of support, mention it in the body of the page with context, such as
164:
768:
a criteria we need to consider. However, given we are at an impasse I think we need a third party involved to resolve this so have copied our conversation to the talk page and I will list it for comment.
726:
does. Taken from wikipedia: "Asset-based lending is any kind of lending secured by an asset. This means, if the loan is not repaid, the asset is taken." A 'Collateral Based Lender' also applies here.
482:
585:
722:
November 26, 2018: Hi
Sargdub, I apologize for maybe handling this a bit inappropriately. When you say that my explanation is exactly what a pawnbroker does, I'd argue that it's exactly what an
1238:
336:
326:
1243:
1233:
158:
302:
806:
810:
55:
289:
266:
854:
521:
508:
441:
90:
1182:
integrated in the
History or Services section(s): if it cannot be so integrated, then that is an indication that it is not relevant for the article.
1253:
431:
1258:
1248:
211:
96:
1003:
495:
407:
814:
515:
1210:
1080:
955:
826:
179:
146:
661:
it would be good other
Knowledge editors could comment on whether this term describes this business and is fair in this context.
398:
359:
110:
41:
802:
842:
745:
708:
695:
576:
115:
31:
647:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1117:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
85:
489:
476:
241:
954:; and only adopt new terminology once it has entered general vernacular by being used by reliable sources, not before.
140:
502:
76:
858:
818:
136:
207:
850:
834:
1007:
830:
631:
229:
186:
1045:
120:
1214:
1084:
959:
548:
838:
1155:
1135:
893:
528:
247:
35:
1063:
981:
871:
733:
727:
683:
200:
930:
915:
737:
723:
687:
627:
172:
152:
66:
406:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
301:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1170:
1041:
1024:
934:
741:
691:
81:
1202:
793:- Pawnbroker is a term that describes this business and is fair in this context. We go by how
773:
666:
626:
Consensus that the RS support the term "pawnbroker" to describe the business of this company.
62:
1187:
1151:
1131:
1102:
889:
534:
390:
652:
I appears to me that the most accurate way to describe the business this company does is a
1059:
977:
862:
565:
1203:"Routine news reporting ... is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia."
911:
658:
541:
463:
1227:
1206:
1166:
1020:
1209:
covered by these media reports then they should be included in the History section.
1076:
1037:
951:
794:
769:
662:
1218:
1191:
1183:
1174:
1159:
1139:
1107:
1097:
1088:
1067:
1049:
1028:
1011:
985:
963:
938:
919:
897:
880:
798:
777:
749:
670:
635:
822:
653:
380:
298:
1205:
As such, this section should be deleted. If there are any events of enduring
846:
1002:
Otherwise, we have no place making up corporate classifications ourselves.
281:
260:
17:
293:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
907:
403:
374:
353:
294:
711:
before making any edits. Sargdub (talk) 18:55, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
675:
Moved from individual talk page as more appropriate to discuss here:
993:
If a reliable source calls them a pawnbroker, so be it. If only
223:
195:
26:
483:
Knowledge:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies
1000:
source A refers to the company as similar to a pawnbroker.
797:
describe this business and there are plenty of sources to
1127:
171:
402:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1075:use of term pawnbroker as it is well supported by
1019:as used by realiable sources cited by Isaidnoway.
1239:Low-importance Finance & Investment articles
44:for general discussion of the article's subject.
311:Knowledge:WikiProject Finance & Investment
1244:WikiProject Finance & Investment articles
1234:Start-Class Finance & Investment articles
314:Template:WikiProject Finance & Investment
185:
8:
522:Category:Company articles needing infoboxes
509:Category:Company articles needing attention
227:
731:
681:
471:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
449:
348:
255:
1130:; pls see edit summary for rationale. --
350:
257:
210:on 11 April 2011 (UTC). The result of
547:Help expand stub articles located at
7:
888:as used by realiable sources above.
643:The following discussion is closed.
496:Category:Unassessed company articles
396:This article is within the scope of
290:WikiProject Finance & Investment
287:This article is within the scope of
246:It is of interest to the following
34:for discussing improvements to the
25:
317:Finance & Investment articles
1113:The discussion above is closed.
801:the description of pawnbroker -
573:Tag company talk pages with the
462:
383:
373:
352:
280:
259:
228:
199:
56:Click here to start a new topic.
1254:Low-importance company articles
436:This article has been rated as
416:Knowledge:WikiProject Companies
331:This article has been rated as
206:This article was nominated for
1259:WikiProject Companies articles
709:Knowledge:Conflict of interest
562:Tag company articles with the
419:Template:WikiProject Companies
1:
1160:11:42, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
1126:Preserving here by providing
1068:23:17, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
898:11:40, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
881:08:36, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
750:16:40, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
636:00:24, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
410:and see a list of open tasks.
305:and see a list of open tasks.
53:Put new text under old text.
1249:Start-Class company articles
1219:00:06, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
1108:20:54, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
1089:00:10, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
964:00:27, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
939:17:23, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
920:04:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
778:03:24, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
671:19:29, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
453:WikiProject Companies To-do:
1077:reliable, published sources
1050:07:55, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
61:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
1275:
442:project's importance scale
337:project's importance scale
1192:16:54, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1175:17:26, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
1029:17:19, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
1012:20:26, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
448:
435:
368:
330:
275:
254:
91:Be welcoming to newcomers
1140:03:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
1115:Please do not modify it.
1096:That term is applicable
645:Please do not modify it.
308:Finance & Investment
267:Finance & Investment
1165:Concur, trivia at best.
986:23:44, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
549:Category:Company stubs
236:This article is rated
86:avoid personal attacks
586:requests for comments
577:WikiProject Companies
399:WikiProject Companies
111:Neutral point of view
36:Borro Private Finance
728:Taken from wikipedia
116:No original research
991:Only if used in RS.
827:Wall Street Journal
619:The term pawnbroker
724:Asset Based Lender
646:
242:content assessment
97:dispute resolution
58:
752:
736:comment added by
699:
686:comment added by
644:
613:
612:
609:
608:
605:
604:
601:
600:
597:
596:
347:
346:
343:
342:
222:
221:
194:
193:
77:Assume good faith
54:
16:(Redirected from
1266:
1105:
1100:
952:reliable sources
903:Not so simple...
878:
869:
815:Business Insider
795:reliable sources
580:
569:
535:Portal:Companies
477:Article requests
466:
459:
458:
450:
424:
423:
422:company articles
420:
417:
414:
393:
391:Companies portal
388:
387:
386:
377:
370:
369:
364:
356:
349:
319:
318:
315:
312:
309:
284:
277:
276:
271:
263:
256:
239:
233:
232:
224:
203:
196:
190:
189:
175:
106:Article policies
27:
21:
1274:
1273:
1269:
1268:
1267:
1265:
1264:
1263:
1224:
1223:
1150:surgery on it.
1147:
1124:
1119:
1118:
1103:
1098:
872:
863:
649:
640:
639:
638:
621:
593:
590:
574:
563:
421:
418:
415:
412:
411:
389:
384:
382:
362:
316:
313:
310:
307:
306:
269:
240:on Knowledge's
237:
132:
127:
126:
125:
102:
72:
23:
22:
15:
12:
11:
5:
1272:
1270:
1262:
1261:
1256:
1251:
1246:
1241:
1236:
1226:
1225:
1222:
1221:
1195:
1194:
1178:
1177:
1146:
1143:
1123:
1120:
1112:
1111:
1110:
1091:
1070:
1052:
1031:
1014:
1004:68.129.252.188
988:
969:
968:
967:
966:
944:
943:
942:
941:
923:
922:
900:
883:
787:
786:
785:
784:
783:
782:
781:
780:
758:
757:
756:
755:
754:
753:
715:
714:
713:
712:
701:
700:
650:
641:
628:Britishfinance
625:
624:
623:
622:
620:
617:
615:
611:
610:
607:
606:
603:
602:
599:
598:
595:
594:
592:
591:
589:
588:
582:
581:project banner
571:
559:
551:
537:
524:
511:
498:
485:
470:
468:
467:
455:
454:
446:
445:
438:Low-importance
434:
428:
427:
425:
408:the discussion
395:
394:
378:
366:
365:
363:Low‑importance
357:
345:
344:
341:
340:
333:Low-importance
329:
323:
322:
320:
303:the discussion
285:
273:
272:
270:Low‑importance
264:
252:
251:
245:
234:
220:
219:
212:the discussion
204:
192:
191:
129:
128:
124:
123:
118:
113:
104:
103:
101:
100:
93:
88:
79:
73:
71:
70:
59:
50:
49:
46:
45:
39:
24:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1271:
1260:
1257:
1255:
1252:
1250:
1247:
1245:
1242:
1240:
1237:
1235:
1232:
1231:
1229:
1220:
1216:
1212:
1208:
1204:
1200:
1197:
1196:
1193:
1189:
1185:
1180:
1179:
1176:
1172:
1168:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1161:
1157:
1153:
1144:
1142:
1141:
1137:
1133:
1129:
1121:
1116:
1109:
1106:
1101:
1095:
1092:
1090:
1086:
1082:
1078:
1074:
1071:
1069:
1065:
1061:
1056:
1053:
1051:
1047:
1043:
1042:Adoring nanny
1039:
1035:
1032:
1030:
1026:
1022:
1018:
1015:
1013:
1009:
1005:
1001:
996:
992:
989:
987:
983:
979:
974:
971:
970:
965:
961:
957:
953:
948:
947:
946:
945:
940:
936:
932:
927:
926:
925:
924:
921:
917:
913:
909:
904:
901:
899:
895:
891:
887:
884:
882:
879:
877:
876:
870:
868:
867:
860:
856:
852:
848:
844:
840:
839:New York Post
836:
832:
828:
824:
820:
816:
812:
808:
804:
800:
796:
792:
789:
788:
779:
775:
771:
766:
765:
764:
763:
762:
761:
760:
759:
751:
747:
743:
739:
735:
729:
725:
721:
720:
719:
718:
717:
716:
710:
705:
704:
703:
702:
697:
693:
689:
685:
678:
677:
676:
673:
672:
668:
664:
660:
655:
648:
637:
633:
629:
618:
616:
587:
583:
578:
572:
567:
561:
560:
558:
556:
552:
550:
546:
544:
543:
538:
536:
533:
531:
530:
525:
523:
520:
518:
517:
512:
510:
507:
505:
504:
499:
497:
494:
492:
491:
486:
484:
481:
479:
478:
473:
472:
469:
465:
461:
460:
457:
456:
452:
451:
447:
443:
439:
433:
430:
429:
426:
409:
405:
401:
400:
392:
381:
379:
376:
372:
371:
367:
361:
358:
355:
351:
338:
334:
328:
325:
324:
321:
304:
300:
296:
292:
291:
286:
283:
279:
278:
274:
268:
265:
262:
258:
253:
249:
243:
235:
231:
226:
225:
217:
213:
209:
205:
202:
198:
197:
188:
184:
181:
178:
174:
170:
166:
163:
160:
157:
154:
151:
148:
145:
142:
138:
135:
134:Find sources:
131:
130:
122:
121:Verifiability
119:
117:
114:
112:
109:
108:
107:
98:
94:
92:
89:
87:
83:
80:
78:
75:
74:
68:
64:
63:Learn to edit
60:
57:
52:
51:
48:
47:
43:
37:
33:
29:
28:
19:
1211:203.10.55.11
1198:
1148:
1145:In the Media
1125:
1114:
1093:
1081:203.10.55.11
1072:
1054:
1033:
1016:
999:
994:
990:
972:
956:203.10.55.11
902:
885:
874:
873:
865:
864:
851:Fox Business
835:The Guardian
823:Entrepreneur
790:
732:— Preceding
682:— Preceding
674:
651:
642:
614:
568:|Companies}}
554:
553:
540:
539:
527:
526:
514:
513:
501:
500:
488:
487:
475:
474:
437:
397:
332:
288:
248:WikiProjects
216:no consensus
215:
182:
176:
168:
161:
155:
149:
143:
133:
105:
30:This is the
1152:MilborneOne
1132:K.e.coffman
1122:Recent edit
890:MilborneOne
855:Independent
238:Start-class
159:free images
42:not a forum
1228:Categories
1207:notability
1060:Darwin Naz
978:Jtbobwaysf
973:Pawnbroker
866:Isaidnoway
654:pawnbroker
299:Investment
18:Talk:Borro
1128:this link
912:Coastside
819:Bloomberg
413:Companies
404:companies
360:Companies
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
1167:Pincrete
1036:per the
1021:Pincrete
931:Cedichee
831:CBS News
746:contribs
738:Cedichee
734:unsigned
696:contribs
688:Cedichee
684:unsigned
570:template
529:Maintain
503:Copyedit
208:deletion
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
1073:Support
1040:cited.
908:etailer
807:Reuters
770:Sargdub
663:Sargdub
659:WP:NPOV
584:Answer
516:Infobox
440:on the
335:on the
295:Finance
165:WP refs
153:scholar
1184:DMew92
875:(talk)
859:HuffPo
843:Crains
811:Forbes
799:verify
680:topic.
566:portal
490:Assess
244:scale.
137:Google
1199:Agree
1038:WP:RS
555:Other
542:Stubs
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1215:talk
1188:talk
1171:talk
1156:talk
1136:talk
1085:talk
1064:talk
1046:talk
1025:talk
1008:talk
982:talk
960:talk
935:talk
916:talk
894:talk
803:CNBC
774:talk
742:talk
692:talk
667:talk
632:talk
297:and
214:was
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1104:333
1099:HAL
1094:Yes
1055:Yes
1034:Yes
1017:Yes
995:one
886:Yes
847:BBC
791:Yes
432:Low
327:Low
187:TWL
1230::
1217:)
1201:.
1190:)
1173:)
1158:)
1138:)
1087:)
1079:.
1066:)
1048:)
1027:)
1010:)
984:)
962:)
937:)
918:)
896:)
857:,
853:,
849:,
845:,
841:,
837:,
833:,
829:,
825:,
821:,
817:,
813:,
809:,
805:,
776:)
748:)
744:•
694:•
669:)
634:)
579:}}
575:{{
564:{{
167:)
65:;
1213:(
1186:(
1169:(
1154:(
1134:(
1083:(
1062:(
1044:(
1023:(
1006:(
980:(
958:(
933:(
914:(
892:(
861:.
772:(
740:(
698:)
690:(
665:(
630:(
557::
545::
532::
519::
506::
493::
480::
444:.
339:.
250::
218:.
183:·
177:·
169:·
162:·
156:·
150:·
144:·
139:(
69:.
20:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
