2557:(1) You are an extremely valuable contributor to Knowledge (XXG). I find it difficult to imagine even how it is possible for someone to do what you do here. So your authority means a lot to me. Still, I think you are wrong in this case, so I will try at least one step further. (2) It is very common to think falsely that what is well known by oneself is obvious. Could this be the problem here? (3) The intro should be a summary, yes. But this is not an argument for writing long and with low intelligibility. In fact, this sentence is not a summary. The corresponding statement near the end of the article is longer (123ch -: -->
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2517:. It seems that many ornithologists are keen to mention IUCN. But knowledge about the existence and work of IUCN does not constitute knowledge about this bird species, so this knowledge does not belong in the knowledge that this article has the task of conveying. The Knowledge (XXG) article says that LC means the species is not on the Red List. But this expression gives the impression that it is. --
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that it becomes so different that it states NEW information. If this is how you feel, then there is either a problem with your formulation (IUCNs) or with your understanding of what you have written. (7) If you don't see a difference between "very low risk" and "least concern", then it is unfair to call a link between them an easter egg, neither is it reasonable to fear OR. --
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This statement feels almost like a restatement of my argument. Our task is to convey to the reader the info provided by IUCN (in this case). I say that the way it is currently done, it is difficult for the reader to understand what is really meant. You say that if we rephrase it, then there is a risk
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section, where some further information is given. It is a tricky request you ask, as varying what definitions are risks veering into OR, and I don't find the parameters that convoluted at all. What you are asking is an easter egg link, and I don't see what difference there is between "very low risk"
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doesn't stand on its own, it is sufficiently meaningful only as a reference to the definitions by IUCN. Maybe you think it is needed to be on the safe side with regard to truth. We dare not say this is the way it is, only that IUCN says so. If that is the case, then it should not be in the intro at
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means in themselves. Also, this sentence is an awkward and cumbersome way of saying that. I guess this way of expressing it is chosen because it is nearly as precise as possible and also most probably true (safe to say). But again, this comes at a steep cost in the way of low intelligibility. The
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This and similar statements are very common in good and very good articles. But it is not efficient communication. We cannot reasonable assume that the reaer knows the definitions of the Red List categories. Try to take on the perspective of such a person. I think she would interpret this as:
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74ch). There is a motivation for this characterization, but no further explanation of what it means. (4) Repeating: That the information is from IUCN is not information about the species, it is only info about the info about the species. So, in the interest of conciseness, try to remove it.
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intro should be concise and have high intelligibility. Reading the
Knowledge (XXG) article on LC, I find that the definition rests on a deep and convoluted network of supporting defintitions, so I am not sure what to propose as replacement. But here is my best shot:
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all. Doubted statements are not important enough for the intro. (5) The original research worry is unwarranted. On the contrary, it is a very normal procedure in
Knowledge (XXG) to rephrase what others have written, to paraphrase, but not to copy. (6)
2268:, in central western NSW, an area greatly affected by the current (2011) plague. During the height of the plague in 2008-2009, there would have been easily ten times the number of these birds seen in the area than during the previous two years.
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2 birds were found to be infected with the blood parasite
Haemoproteus in one study. Blood parasites of birds from south-east Queensland Robert D. Adlard, Michael A. Peirce and Rose Lederer Emu 104(2) 191 - 196 Full text doi:10.1071/MU01017
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There is an organization that has made a list of endangered species and it is very little concerned about this species. Probably this means that it thinks that there is a very low risk that this species will go
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Well, blow me down! How did I manage not to know that? Sources I have now checked say up to 15 million years' worth, in fact, and about 60 spp, some recently discovered. Many apologies. I'll make sure the
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Alright, you make fair points I must say...but I still feel weird putting "very low risk" instead of "least concern". But anyway, as this is an issue in all bird articles, we need to discuss at
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It's an arm of the The Nature
Society (Singapore) the reference is to the fantasic images of the behaviour, common to the Elanus kites. It can be deleted if you don't think it adds to the info.
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1902:"Main text says "Black-shouldered Kites live almost exclusively on mice, and have become a specialist predator of house mice in Australia," not sure how much more support is needed.
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Ok, seems fine. I found a journal article using the same terminology, although "specialist" suggests that they would starve in the absence of rodents.
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Perhaps not necessary, but sometimes useful to know the journal is the mouthpiece of a particular organisation, the template asks for the publisher.
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I can certainly attest to the "... often following outbreaks of mouse plagues in rural areas". I do a lot of my work around the area of
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It is rated as least concern on the
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As an apex predator I don't think it will have any, not sure if has been investigated for the usual birdlice/nematodes etc.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110227025012/http://www.wildlife.org.au/magazine/editions/2008/winter/wam_kites.pdf
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Does it need a section on their calls - not that they are particularly vocal. There is some published info.
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ISBN given, ref 12 provides more information on 'grappling' - interesting but not strictly necessary.
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Lead - "it is a specialist predator of rodents" - specialization not supported in main text.
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doesn't summarise the article—no mention of breeding for example, which is a major section
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There is a very low risk that the species will go extinct in the foreseeable future.
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This is vaguely correct, but only vaguely. And IUCN means much more when they say
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sp are OK, it's not clear how this genus fits with others, such as mention of the
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Added info on subfamily though I don't have a reference other than the
Wikipage.
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I think this doesn't feel good for either of us. I think the problem is that
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you don't need publishers for journals, just books and web-only content
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http://www.wildlife.org.au/magazine/editions/2008/winter/wam_kites.pdf
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1816:? It appears to be user generated, also doesn't refer to this species
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http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=view_file&file_id=MU9820182.pdf
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subheading (lvl 3 heading) or without depending on amouint of info.
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http://taxonomicon.taxonomy.nl/TaxonTree.aspx?id=52525&tree=0.1
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gives a more extensive synonomy, and also mentions Gray's article.
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G.R. Gray (1843) gives the following synonyms: "Circus axillaris,
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Information Network link doesn't go to species page
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One of the best Oz bird articles on all of
Knowledge (XXG).
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May be more comments later, but this should get you started
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I've removed incorrect isbn, and added correct, working doi
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Thanks, Old_Wombat. The plagues would be something to see!
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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ref 1 — doi is dead, ref 12 doesn't refer to this species
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I wouldn't link well known places (Australia, Africa etc)
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What I generally do is a few sentences at the end of the
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This article appeared on
Knowledge (XXG)'s Main Page as
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1470:(just parking the info till I, or Casliber, has time)
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Taxonomy—although the relationship between the three
1084:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
2424:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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2570:varying what definitions are risks veering into OR
1459:Do we know Latham's original binomial for this sp?
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1005:). Add taxonomic authorities to genus articles.
2410:This message was posted before February 2018.
424:. If you would like to participate, visit the
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2198:(images are tagged and non-free images have
212:. Even so, if you can update or improve it,
208:as one of the best articles produced by the
202:; it (or a previous version of it) has been
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2303:Parking this info here for now.
1689:That's fine, just a standard ask
1659:Any known predators or parasites?
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2293:19:16, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
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422:Australia-related topics
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2025:reasonably well written
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2426:have permission
2416:
2370:this simple FaQ
2355:
2301:
2259:
2254:
2247:
2144:It follows the
2122:(major aspects)
1967:
1960:
1943:
1936:
1848:
1841:
1798:
1791:
1699:
1692:
1603:
1596:
1301:
1294:
1276:This review is
1271:
1261:
1212:
1186:
1169:
1105:
1102:
1099:
1096:
1095:
1060:
1054:
1008:
876:Sunda scops owl
698:
634:
631:
628:
625:
624:
590:
585:
583:
563:
531:
529:
502:Ask a Librarian
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61:
12:
11:
5:
2724:
2722:
2714:
2713:
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2703:
2698:
2693:
2688:
2683:
2678:
2673:
2668:
2663:
2658:
2653:
2648:
2643:
2638:
2633:
2628:
2618:
2617:
2614:
2613:
2612:
2611:
2610:
2609:
2484:
2481:
2460:
2459:
2452:
2405:
2404:
2396:Added archive
2394:
2386:Added archive
2384:
2376:Added archive
2354:
2351:
2300:
2299:Other synonyms
2297:
2296:
2295:
2258:
2255:
2248:
2246:
2245:
2244:
2243:
2226:
2225:
2224:
2185:
2184:
2183:
2165:
2164:
2163:
2142:
2141:
2140:
2111:
2110:
2109:
2083:(citations to
2056:
2055:
2054:
2019:for criteria)
2007:
2006:
2005:
2004:
2003:
2002:
2001:
2000:
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1978:
1977:
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1975:
1974:
1931:
1930:
1929:
1928:
1899:
1898:
1883:
1882:
1865:
1864:
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1857:
1856:
1855:
1838:No, that's OK
1819:
1818:
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1168:
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1157:
1154:
1153:
1150:Low-importance
1140:
1130:
1129:
1122:Low-importance
1118:
1112:
1111:
1109:
1097:Southeast Asia
1092:the discussion
1087:Southeast Asia
1076:
1064:
1063:
1061:Low‑importance
1052:Southeast Asia
1049:
1037:
1036:
1033:
1032:
1029:
1028:
1010:
1009:
1007:
1006:
997:Add photos to
989:
967:
913:
883:
864:Cathartiformes
853:
827:
806:Gouldian finch
787:
761:
746:Vesper sparrow
731:
711:
709:
708:
697:
696:
691:
686:
681:
675:
672:
671:
659:
658:
651:Low-importance
647:
641:
640:
638:
622:this template.
618:Please do not
596:
595:
579:
567:
566:
564:Low‑importance
558:
546:
545:
542:
541:
520:
510:
509:
498:
488:
487:
484:Low-importance
474:
464:
463:
456:Low-importance
452:
446:
445:
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406:
405:
389:
377:
376:
360:Low‑importance
348:
336:
335:
329:
318:
304:
303:
296:
295:
292:
291:
288:
281:
273:
272:
269:
262:
254:
253:
250:
247:
243:
242:
234:
233:
226:
218:
217:
193:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
2723:
2712:
2709:
2707:
2704:
2702:
2699:
2697:
2694:
2692:
2689:
2687:
2684:
2682:
2679:
2677:
2674:
2672:
2669:
2667:
2664:
2662:
2659:
2657:
2654:
2652:
2649:
2647:
2644:
2642:
2639:
2637:
2634:
2632:
2629:
2627:
2624:
2623:
2621:
2608:
2604:
2601:
2598:
2594:
2590:
2586:
2585:
2584:
2580:
2576:
2571:
2566:
2565:least concern
2562:
2556:
2555:
2554:
2550:
2547:
2544:
2540:
2535:
2531:
2530:
2529:
2528:
2524:
2520:
2516:
2515:least concern
2512:
2511:very low risk
2509:
2504:
2503:least concern
2500:
2499:least concern
2496:
2490:
2482:
2480:
2479:
2474:
2469:
2468:
2457:
2453:
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2446:
2445:
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2256:
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2227:
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2176:
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1801:
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1744:
1740:
1739:
1736:
1735:
1732:please check
1730:
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1517:
1513:
1509:
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1505:
1502:
1501:
1496:
1492:
1488:
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1483:
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1478:
1474:
1471:
1469:
1464:
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1232:
1228:
1227:
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1225:
1221:
1217:
1210:Vocalizations
1209:
1207:
1206:
1202:
1198:
1195:
1191:
1183:
1181:
1179:
1175:
1166:
1151:
1148:(assessed as
1147:
1146:
1136:
1132:
1131:
1127:
1123:
1117:
1114:
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1110:
1093:
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839:
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833:
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821:
820:Avian malaria
817:
816:Cnemophilidae
813:
812:
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635:bird articles
623:
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562:
559:
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527:
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511:
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503:
494:
490:
489:
485:
482:(assessed as
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457:
451:
448:
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444:
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259:June 15, 2010
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131:
127:
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123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
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41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
2599:
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2461:
2436:source check
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2338:
2331:
2329:
2322:
2319:
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2307:
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2263:
2260:
2257:A good read.
2250:
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2197:
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2145:
2131:
2121:
2114:
2096:
2082:
2073:(references)
2072:
2063:
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2041:
2031:
2024:
2009:
2008:
1988:I think so.
1958:
1934:
1932:
1886:
1868:
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1811:
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1245:
1235:vocalisation
1234:
1230:
1213:
1189:
1187:
1184:Distribution
1170:
1143:
1121:
1085:
1079:
1013:
992:
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970:
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941:
935:
924:Argus (bird)
916:
915:
886:
885:
856:
855:
830:
829:
809:
790:
789:
780:Saker falcon
764:
763:
734:
733:
716:
715:
650:
617:
610:project page
602:
601:
597:
592:Birds portal
522:
501:
477:
455:
426:project page
411:
407:
332:WikiProjects
300:
283:
264:
214:please do so
203:
195:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
2312:V. & H.
1968:talk to me?
1944:talk to me?
1849:talk to me?
1799:talk to me?
1700:talk to me?
1604:talk to me?
1302:talk to me?
1278:transcluded
1231:description
776:Magpie duck
750:Bird flight
600:is part of
148:free images
31:not a forum
2620:Categories
2473:Report bug
2270:Old_Wombat
2065:verifiable
1539:done/added
932:Nik Borrow
802:Nidicolous
620:substitute
614:discussion
205:identified
2593:Cas Liber
2539:Cas Liber
2456:this tool
2449:this tool
2235:Pass/Fail
2132:(focused)
1961:Jimfbleak
1937:Jimfbleak
1842:Jimfbleak
1792:Jimfbleak
1693:Jimfbleak
1597:Jimfbleak
1418:subfamily
1357:Expanded
1295:Jimfbleak
1290:Reviewer:
1259:GA Review
838:Debeaking
811:Cathartes
798:Phalarope
754:Bird bath
742:Bullfinch
431:Australia
418:Australia
351:Australia
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2603:contribs
2549:contribs
2495:extinct.
2462:Cheers.—
1734:my edits
1681:contribs
1671:Casliber
1591:BirdLife
1552:contribs
1542:Casliber
1399:contribs
1389:Casliber
1349:The lead
1335:contribs
1325:Casliber
1249:contribs
1239:Casliber
960:Starling
894:Coal tit
772:Plushcap
766:Copyedit
322:FA-class
290:Promoted
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2589:WT:BIRD
2366:my edit
2340:Pelagic
2308:Vieill.
2229:Overall
2032:(prose)
1918:Shyamal
1891:Shyamal
1577:Snowman
1124:on the
943:Fregata
937:Pytilia
736:Cleanup
684:history
653:on the
504:at the
458:on the
249:Process
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2575:Ettrig
2519:Ettrig
2190:images
2169:stable
2167:It is
2149:policy
2113:It is
2058:It is
2023:It is
2013:review
1762:Great!
1639:Added
1485:Added
1414:Elanus
1192:? See
1178:seglea
1174:rodent
1022:, and
972:Wikify
952:Darter
918:Verify
888:Update
792:Expand
328:scale.
271:Listed
252:Result
126:Google
2325::189
2316:Gould
2266:Dubbo
2015:(see
1814:WP:RS
1280:from
993:Other
858:Stubs
694:purge
689:watch
668:To-do
626:Birds
561:Birds
356:Biota
198:is a
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2597:talk
2579:talk
2543:talk
2523:talk
2344:talk
2289:talk
2285:Marj
2274:talk
2062:and
2017:here
1994:talk
1990:Marj
1922:talk
1908:talk
1904:Marj
1895:talk
1876:talk
1872:Marj
1830:talk
1826:Marj
1780:talk
1776:Marj
1747:talk
1743:Marj
1715:talk
1711:Marj
1675:talk
1648:talk
1644:Marj
1618:talk
1614:Marj
1581:talk
1546:talk
1516:talk
1512:Marj
1491:talk
1487:Marj
1477:talk
1473:Marj
1446:talk
1442:Marj
1432:talk
1428:Marj
1393:talk
1377:—yuk
1363:talk
1359:Marj
1329:talk
1243:talk
1220:talk
1216:Marj
1201:talk
1197:Marj
1057:Laos
986:more
964:more
910:more
880:more
850:more
832:NPOV
824:more
784:more
758:more
728:more
679:edit
530:help
523:The
420:and
246:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2430:RfC
2400:to
2390:to
2380:to
2318:."
2044:MoS
1116:Low
645:Low
450:Low
176:TWL
2622::
2605:)
2581:)
2551:)
2525:)
2443:.
2438:}}
2434:{{
2346:)
2323:11
2291:)
2276:)
2237::
2231::
2218::
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