Talk:Black Sea - Knowledge

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on the basis of Historical, Cultural and Geo-Political reasons. Until this dispute is settled the proper name should be used. All international organizations (United Nations Organization, North Atlantic Treaty Organization, European Union, etc.) have adopted the acronym F.Y.R.O.M. for official use and certainly NOT just plain "Macedonia". The Greek Republic is very serious about that and wikipedia should abide with international law or risk finding itself at the wrong end of the judicial stick. Please remove this map and replace it with one that shows the proper name of this country.

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clearly that all of northeastern Greece is drained into the Aegean (along with all adjacent Bulgarian territory), either by the Maritsa and its tributaries or directly by smaller rivers further west. Northwestern Greece is likewise not drained into the Black Sea, as the Danube's drainage basin barely reaches Albania (where the vast majority of the waters end up in the Adriatic) and North Macedonia (most of which is drained by the Vardar system into the Aegean).

2019: 787: 1579: 1558: 1783: 1832: 1811: 913: 892: 1694: 1474: 1667: 1453: 3781:. As such two weeks before I made mention of changes in edit summary since article has large number of watchers and good number visiting edits. Besides I did effort to search active users among top 30 who edited article previously, to seek their inputs, though I found only five of them active to whom I notified the proposed changes but most of these five were just copy editors, one of them seems to have done small edits too. 424: 2040: 2129: 1139: 545: 403: 368: 1022: 1001: 434: 2435: 2408: 818: 4276: 1484: 1032: 923: 3501:

non partisan and reliable sources for edits around nationality and ethnicity and not just changes based on personal feelings and OR. You'll note that once those were provided and consensus was established on the Battle of Alcacer Quibir I've made no further efforts to change what is reliably sourced, (though I do continue to have doubts about the size of the Ottoman contribution to that battle.)

283: 2445: 2340: 2319: 1589: 262: 1704: 220: 3923:) I don't look to split until it reaches above 40kB. However, that is prose only, so if the suggestion is moving overlong and detailed tables/lists that is a different consideration. Hence why I'm inquiring into the reasoning behind this. I would support splitting lists, for example the list of animal species currently in this article, while keeping the prose. 4445: 2050: 2996:

Is there a more zoomed-out copyright-free map we could use as the first map? Something that shows more of the surrounding areas. I am from the other side of the world, and from that map i can't actually tell which sea this is about. Obviously in my case i'll scroll down, click a few links, try google

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fight for territories. What any uninvolved Wikipedians supposed to have opinion beyond being neutral? Please don't take my reason of neutrality negatively, Why I explain some how I find this point discussion encyclopedicaly less important so those who can avoid this political discussion please help

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The map inserted on the top right side of the main page is mistakenly displaying the country officially known as F.Y.R.O.M. (Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia) as "Macedonia". However, this name is not officially accepted, because it is seriously disputed by the neighboring Republic of Greece

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Hence if any way I am going to work on Black sea female slave trade then I will work on general trade too because it does not take additional time. I will work and let community decide whether what and how much part of trade to be included and whether they want to shy away from reporting history of

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I appreciate the intention in improving the article, but the table added in February is not only malformed, but is also still quite empty (and unsourced as well). Maybe if it had a lot of compelling content, I'd like it somewhat, but as it is now, it seems less than helpful. I'm removing it on that

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In the the name section, the four seas named after four colors are discussed. I can't seem to confirm it on the net, but I distinctly remember the four colors were historically associated with the four cardinal directions. Red was historically associated with the South, yellow for East, white for

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As we take note of good parts of the history we need to take bad parts of history too into our encyclopedic stride. Whether it is western slavery or eastern one specially injustices towards women in any geographic area need to be accounted and reported in those geography related articles of course

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BTW in the context of your comments elsewhere I have no strong feelings on the Ottoman Empire one way or the other, other than like most empires they have both admirable qualities and deplorable ones, great episodes and shameful ones. What I do feel strongly about is that there should be adequate,

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Since I do not know, neither I want to be judge, on which tourism places are notable for this article and which are not I did not delete the list, leaving for discussion by people who are interested in/ related to the topic. Once they decide at this talk page tourism related list will get smaller,

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With new table and shifting of content to Wiki Voyage probably such a long list of tourist places won't be needed. I wish some one takes call on the same to retain and add important tourist, trade and historic places and delete the rest in due course. I am not too against separate tourism list but

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Since we're on the subject, I notice that Greece is included in the list of countries that the Black Sea's drainage basin covers. This seems erroneous: most of the sources cited omit Greece (save a European Union programme, which might have wider criteria of inclusion), and the relevant maps show

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actually which is my primary area of interest to update related Knowledge articles, but any trade we research for any historical city we are going to come across slavery and non slavery both kind of trade, so I thought it would be proper to research and map the same in more detail with Wikipedian

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It is unfortunate that this article lacks a description of Black Sea salinity other that vague qualitative information and a single concentration given i poorly defined PSU. (Practical salinity unit but sometimes percent, sometimes per mille, sometimes defined for volume sometimes for weight an

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As far as lengths of the article is concerned some other sections too need split and briefing in this article. If other sections too are briefed neatly there is no reason a paragraph or two for Black sea trade also can not be accommodated. Earlier I wanted to focus only on trade since you have

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is rather lost. It needs some introduction about the conditions that lead up to this consequence. Is it because of the underlying rock? Dissolved gases in lower layers of the water? Something else? Without this it's just a random observation about a very rare event and there's nothing to

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I did seek names of old names of cities to update history of trade in black sea. The people like me if know old names of cities searching history of trade related information becomes easier, we can avoid mistakes in factual detail, that is how my logic goes can you explain how my logic is

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So pl. do understand if it is an attempt to block history of Black sea trade then that will come in this or some other article in Knowledge, hopefully you won't be able to soft censor whole of Knowledge but still if you want to spend time on soft censoring Knowledge then best wishes to

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I'm not really sure what any of that has to do with a list of towns around the Black Sea which is what this discussion is actually about. i'm sure there's a place for an article on the Black Sea economy, and the slave trade therein. It doesn't need more than a summary in this article

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Btw I do not want to close this discussion too early since it is good point of attraction and there after I can request people joining the discussion to join researching slave history of Black sea region and update Knowledge further for the same. Thanks for joining the discussion.

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I'm not sure exactly where the Black Sea Trade discussion comes into this, though my answer would be similar in that I think a solid but brief summary is sufficient in this article and that covering the topic in more depth in a standalone article in the context of bodies like the

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According to UN and EU, Crimea is not a disputed territory, but a Ukrainian territory annexed by Russia. This act of Russia caused sanctions against Russia. Claiming that Crimea, or its parts, is disputed is wrong. It's not better than supporting ISIS claims, whatever they were.

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If at all you and other users do not want old names in long term I won't have issues to remove those at a latter stage after completion of historic trade related updates since if old names are there others readers too can easily join for factual verification over period of

3529:, while working on it I I realized commoner women's female slavery of Black sea area of Ottoman times and central Asia is under covered. If meditarian slave trade is well covered in European slave trade article there is no reason Black sea slave trade to be avoided. 3609:

A major article overhaul being proposed, by clubbing, splitting, trimming of some sections. I am quite okay if some one else works on overhaul and restructuring, That would save my time, If no one comes ahead I will do it my self. Suggestions too are most welcome.

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When I read this in the article I came to comment on it. I can't believe it's even there, It's just ridiculous. It should go without saying that a sizable meteorite impact "would pose a threat to health—or even life—for people living" where ever it might happen.

3369:"Requested help" on the talk does not somehow qualify edits to be automatically accepted. That's before we get to you're curious randon request for help from a new editor on a page they're previously shown no interest in, which is pushing towards meat puppetry. 2148: 3304:

just adds additional information which had been already requested on article talk page, since topic is already on talk page and your editing is contrary to Knowledge spirit then is it not your moral responsibility to come at the article talk page first?

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Its not ridiculous, but needs expansion and explanation. The missing info is that there is significant H2S in the deep waters. From an abstract: "Since the hydrogen sulphide (H2S) zone was discovered in the early 19th century in the Black

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Please let me know if you are against adding history of Balck sea trade to this article, in that case we will invite others for that point and then at later stage discuss at RfC .Mean while I can work on history of Black sea trade in

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All the articles that need expansion, first I include related linked names in the articles and then I give 'related edits' from the menu and who ever is adding new content I do invite them for article expansions. Similar way user

3218:; in course of time one more neighboring region emerges as a big player expels and deports inhabitants of both Crimea and Circassia with humanitarian crisis; there after in 21 century too big player Russia and small big neighbor 2926:

West, and Black for the North. So the White sea is the Mediterranean Sea, The Yellow Sea is the East China Sea, and the Red and Black Seas are still called the Red and Black Seas. Can anyone out there help confirm or deny this?

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I do not own the article so I did not trim it in one go rather I prefer others to join in trimming or given the liberty I will trim it further over a period of time since I will prefer to do it with minimum shock to the usual

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I will be sending some discussion invitations from article history statistics, active users who have contributed reasonable amount of content to the article or related articles previously, others too are welcome to join

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Currently 44°N 35°E is given as coordinates, while the geographic centre is located at 43° 17′ 49″ N, 34° 1′ 46″ E; or 43.296944, 34.029444 in decimal degrees. I suggest to adjust this or at least mention it. Link :

4107:) 15:57, 26 November 2021 (UTC) Sorry I now found a bit more information on the salinity of the Black Sea, but more would certainly be welcome. The PSU was typically based on halide ion titration using silvernitrate. 3411:'s name came there so invitation went to him. You might have issues which others need not be aware while sending article expansion invitations. (Also do note invitation already included talk page discussion link too) 1328: 3372:

There's no real need to add all the ancient names to this article, it's bloat, and the information is adequately covered extensively elsewhere. this article is aguably overlong already and could do with a thorough

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notice on top of the article to clearly notify people of what you are proposing. I will do that now. I think some splitting may a good idea, but maybe you should await some more input before you go ahead with it.

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Article help requirements are mentioned in brief in respective section notice templates; Besides Following new split articles have been created to take care of above mentioned needs. Please help them expand.

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1) Can you help understand you do not have issue with a table that seeks information but you seem to have issue with addition of information, can we understand your point better? 2) You do have issue with

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Good point. According to the limits defined in the Geography section, the Black Sea ends at the northern end of the Bosporus. So Istanbul is close to but not on the Black Sea. I'll remove it from the list.

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The order of these was changed a few weeks ago, without stating a reason. I don't know the rationale for either order; perhaps by population? If it were up to me I'd make it clockwise from the Bosporus.

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I don't think this list adds usefully to this article. It would be better as it's one page of anything. The list is arbitrary and incomplete and it's bloat for this page, which again needs a good overhaul.

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Listing of City names is proposed to be Clockwise from Istanbul for historic reasons (You can change sequence later after completing details about citywise female slavery markets and refs I have no issues)

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Thanks for letting me know your opinions. When I was stopped while working on cultural aspect of segment of women, I didn't understand I started digging more, reached to women related bigger area of work

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Modelling shows the release of the hydrogen sulphide clouds in the event of an asteroid impact into the Black Sea would pose a threat to health—or even life—for people living on the Black Sea coast.

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I can do the work of old city names on talk pages too but still I wanted to get involved more users from Black sea related topics as collaborative effort so I included list there in the article.

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https://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?language=en&pagename=%D0%A7%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5&params=43_17_49_N_34_1_46_E_scale:5000000_type:waterbody

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Also in recent years the amount of bacterial infections by swimmers has increased due to the sea being used by so many industrial shipping routes. So it has become more inhospitable in a way.

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These few days the article is under anonymous user attack, it's clear that someone tries to make the same willful change from different IPs. I think the article needs protection from IPs.--

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In this article on Black Sea, countries around the Sea are mentioned alphabetically. It would be more useful if they were mentioned geographically in clockwise or anti-clockwise sequence.

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Have you seen there is one more list, there are total three lists. I don't have issues removing all the three lists temporarily and seek the consensus on talk page before we restore them.

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Since I just came across the article preferred to help it out, I am not insistent on any point if some one wants to arrange it in different way I am not likely have much issues .

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I am just pointing out, not expecting any answer from you on above points, I don't want to stretch this point too much further, since usually I am against personalizing the issues.

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The fact that the Black Sea is connected to the ocean does not depend on whether Europe and Asia are considered a single continent. We have not seen a source claiming otherwise.

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Yes, I don't have any comments on the specific content yet, I'm commenting based on the overall presence of a split tag. This article is currently 27kB long, and in general (per

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why when the only place that puts the units of time so terribly out of order is on the other side of the world? (not the same other side as me, i'm Southern hemisphere.)

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Hi Bookku, the content on this page was only just over 30kB of prose, and is now at 27kB. What was the impetus for splitting it? For any split pages, I suggest applying

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does not have references ? 3) Or do you have issue with mentioning of old historical names of the cities ? If so why do you have issue with mentioning of old names?

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and was just about to tag it for speedy deletion as a direct duplicate of material in this article. I think the correct thing to have done here would be to place a

2352: 2347: 2324: 147: 2874:. Knowledge policy is to refer to the country as just Macedonia where there is no ambiguity. If you disagree with this, then the best place to discuss it would be 4501: 4079:. So Britannica either contradicts itself, or their usage of "inland" in the Black Sea article is colloquial, not strictly meaning "disconnected from the ocean". 3960: 3784:

Since restructuring and split is mainly done for reducing clutter and Splitting will help neatness of those section better organic growth of independent articles.

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but personally I do not have preferences which way to be depicted; rather after studying history of Black sea female slavery Where in one neighboring region

4731: 4726: 4516: 4413:. Strange way to put it. I see the list as part of the description of the Black Sea itself, but I suppose it's possible that some readers come here to see 1288: 949: 3400:

besides there is one more list related list, that earlier list and my list can be combined that will save space and that proposition is in pipeline already.

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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/256485436_Evaluation_of_the_Circulation_Patterns_in_the_Black_Sea_Using_Remotely_Sensed_and_in_Situ_Measurements

3125: 2106: 233: 79: 4601: 4586: 4556: 4496: 3135: 3130: 2638:, the residence time for water in the Black sea ranges from about 4.8 to 625 years, depending on depth. I thought I read about that here once before. 1530: 1203: 1082: 874: 864: 4681: 4616: 1639: 1540: 1092: 4696: 4631: 4541: 4506: 2501: 1773: 1763: 1649: 936: 897: 498: 488: 4721: 4656: 4591: 4561: 4526: 3308:

b)Are you sure your edit war with the addition making user elsewhere is not just spilling over here ? and you really don't have a point here ?

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Can you explain me the logic that tourism related small places can be listed in the article and not second names of trade related big places ?

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Are you sure about this, or you're just testing to see who's going to protest about you being intoxicated when you wrote all this nonsense!?

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I received at least one 'thanks' for split so that means there are more likely different opinions and I welcome all of those including yours.

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with regions surrounding Black sea. In next steps I wish to have a proper map showing erstwhile slave trading townships across black sea.

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spend time for researching trade and slave history of this region or even tourism while those who are interested thrash out this subject.

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The H2S article has nothing about this either. A paragraph here should explain the occurance data before mentioning the impact hypothesis.

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I do not want to stretch issue of adding old city names too much alone, it is for Knowledge community visiting this discussion to decide.

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Contemporary City name/country; Old or Ottoman time name/ country;General and slave trade details (with ref) and Geographic Co ordinates

2794: 2776: 2658: 2228: 840: 3682:‎Historical names and etymology :→‎ (proposing restructuring splitting and section clubbing History special article) Splitting to :→‎ 4551: 4455: 4437: 2855: 2729: 2678: 1865: 1855: 1816: 1506: 1058: 3105:

Last but not least in long run I prefer to have interactive map of cities with old and new names for easier understanding of readers.

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it might be close, but it is not on the coast. Maybe change it to "Important cities along ("along"? or "on"?) or near the coast" --

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Can you please positively discuss keeping personal conflict with other user aside and let me know how we can positively proceed ?

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From your message it's not clear which specific split article you are referring to, so I consider it general question as of now.

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Basin countries & ‎Largest rivers :→ (proposing section clubbing of Rivers and Basin Countries in tabular form) :→ Created

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Why is there no mention that locals to the area know the sea is a lot more hospitable than the Aegean (warmer in summer, etc).

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Clutter of 10 10 bytes adds to clutter of hundred bytes So let us join in making the article smarter by shifting the clutter.

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My another question is if other part of article lengthy and clumsy even proper listing of cities is also supposed to suffer?

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indicate that it's a peculiarity of the Black Sea and wouldn't happen if an asteroid fell into some other body of water.

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possibly following some simplified procedure to convert other quantities (e.g. conductivity or density) into salinity.

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say there are 25 countries in the basin and then they list only 24. What is the 25-th country, missing in the lists? --

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The majior part of content was added in 2008, there must have been mor RS sources available to develop article further.

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The Black Sea is connected to the ocean via the Mediterranean. The Caspian Sea is not connected to the ocean at all.

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Discussion about "inland" status depending on whether Europe and Asia are considered a single continent is misleading

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The Black sea is also connected to the Indian Ocean via the Suez canal and the red sea. It is more closer that way.

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maps etc. I'm just saying that isn't a very informative as a first image for someone unfamiliar with the region.

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related articles failed miserably. I am expecting and requesting at least some help in expanding the article

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Climate :→‎ (proposing section clubbing with ecology as separate article and briefing in this article):→

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for GA status; improve citations or footnotes and remove excessive or inappropriate external links from

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I would support and looking forward to 'clockwise listing from the Bosporus' as you suggested.

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Looking forward to your constructive collaboration in improving trade history related information.

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