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happy to shut their ugly mouthes.pressure points does work and the work in their best shape, and it is a basic of jujutsu. My sensei has knocked me twice with a p.p . When you take him to the ground you can either knock him out with these or put a devestating pain through his entire body. For example just by pushing under his nose you can rotate his head back. If i get into a match and i do not know anything about jujutsu, 15 seconds is enough for my mates to strike that fool to his death. Again, no weapons trainings, no kicking and punching, no p.p, not enough nage waza has made bjj the most ineffective sport for self defence. I am really impressed by your acknowledge about the real fight and kyusho jutsu. Just watch 50 minutes of goerge dillmann's tapes and test the points on yourself. The debate about the reality of p.p has been ended long long time ago.
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make grappling impossible. The third factor is getting rid of the apponent as fast as you can, so his mates won't strike you to death. When it comes to grappling, the first apponent should be thrown as fast as possible to face the next guy. BJJ competetions take between 5 to 10 minutes and that is really dangerous in the real life. Beside all these, you can finish off your apponent by useing pressure points almost with no effort.BJJ offers people none of these. If all these were past the apponent could be taken to the ground and finished off with a shime waza(choking) or with a kansetsu waza(joint locking) but absoloutly not in the begining.for resources that you asked I should name the book, gracie jiujitsu by Helio gracie himself or mastering jujitsu by Renzo Gracie. If you need a link to these books I would be glad to help.Thks
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rationalle for it not being effective in a real fight, but I would implore you to walk into a BJJ school and roll with a black belt at "competition intensity", and see how many seconds the submission takes. If it is longer than 15 seconds I would be very surprised. Pressure point compliance is, for lack of a more appropriate term, bullshit. It doesn't work. I have read the two books you sourced, and nowhere do they say anywhere in either book that BJJ is not effective self defense. To the contrary, in fact, they very much advocate for its use in that context.
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The most important part of self defence is weapons training. Weapons like ASP or tonfa are or Bo which you can find everywhere gives us a great chance to win a fight especialy if the apponent is armed with stick or a knife. The second most important factor is Atemi Waza which has a high range and can
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When was the last time you walked down the street and found a random tonfa or bo, exactly? Absurd claim. BJJ has a long history of effective use in self-defense situations, many of which can be found in a few seconds on either YouTube, or even WorldStar. Also, you claim the length of matches to be a
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Today, the main differences between the BJJ styles is between traditional Gracie Jiu-Jitsu's emphasis on self-defense, and Sport
Brazilian jiu-jitsu's orientation towards competition. There is a large commonality of techniques between the two. Also, there is a wide variety of ideals in training in
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where they learn by matches and test it out in order to improve their style I feel it needs to be included. Each match lost brought them back to the drawing board. Additionally, the Kimura vs Gracie match was one of the first televised mixed martial arts contests as well as being attended by the
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Tonfa and telescopic baton can be carried by yourself and bo or small stick can be removed from a tree branch so shut up. A friend of mine took this competition and knocked that black belt under a second with a roundhouse kick to his ribs. Also we were worried about that bjjka but we were really
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I don't think the following adds anything to the article: "It has also been argued that the
Brazilians didn't actually create any fundamental innovations within the art" given that BJJ is clearly a distinct style that, while derived from Judo, is practiced and has evolved into a very different
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The article suggests that
Brazilian jiu-jitsu branched off from "older systems of Japanese jujutsu by an important difference that was passed on to Brazilian jiu-jitsu." Therefore, I believe that it should not be removed from the country of origin. I don't understand why my edits are getting
949:. These details like a 3 hour, 45 minute fight do not comply with that guideline. Saying "highly touted" may be editorializing (editor intrepretation) or puffery. The last paragraph of the section had no references. Also, the Aloisio Silva Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Academy is not
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reverted from different anons when I undo the revision. The edits undoing my revision are an unexplained removal of content, but they don't seem to get it or message me about it. Any suggestions? If I revert it one more time, I get violated by 3RR again. Thanks.
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Propose changing sections to reflect that there are actually many BJJ federations/organizations. IBJJF isn't even an actual governing body, though I'll concede that the article can reflect as if it is. I propose adding UAEJJF, CBJJ, CFJJB, CBJJO, and FCJJ.
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According to Kimura in his book "My Judo", He thought of Hélio Gracie to be a 6th dan judo at the time of his fight with him in 1951. However, there is no
Kodokan record of Hélio Gracie having any dan grade in judo, but it is not unusual for a foreign
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No, I just backdated to the last stable version that I was aware of in response to the rampant vandalism. Please feel free to add any constructive edits you deem fit. I apologize if I removed good work from the article. Thanks for your contributions!
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Yes, but descriptions of Helio's career should go on his page. In any event, we need secondary sources that describe how he improved the sport. Data about broken arms and defeats in 14 minutes do not describe BJJ or its' development. Thanks. –
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actual grade to be higher than that officially granted and recorded by the
Kodokan, as Kodokan ranks are maintained independently and have much more strict requirements. His surname the Gracies gave to the arm lock used to defeat Hélio.
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Hélio Gracie had competed in several submission-based competitions which mostly ended in him winning. In 1952, Helio would face a former student
Valdemar Santana, whom in a 3 hour and 45 minute match, would defeat
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I understand your rationale, but Helio is one of the founders of BJJ. He heavily contributed to the development of BJJ. Many of his losses led to key improvements in the development of the art.
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EDIT: I will delete the line as I think it contributes nothing to the article. Anyone may feel free to revert the change if they object with a clear reason why they think it should be included.
1673:"It has also been argued______" should be deleted from every Knowledge (XXG) article without discussion. Only keep it if there is a reliable source and a specific person/publication mentioned.
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This is an article about BJJ in general. Too much data on individuals, their fights, their win-loss records, etc. is being introduced. Individuals should be mentioned, with
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is the best course of action. As I say, 1 paragraph had no references and the other 2 had multiple problems with detail and RS. Here is an essay you might find helpful:
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insists that I get consensus here before I reimpliment my edit. I do not see the line adding anything constructive to the article. I'm happy to discuss with anyone
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https://web.archive.org/web/20121102032922/http://brasa.brazilianblackbelt.com/2011/05/comprido-felipe-costa-and-caio-terra-united-against-steroids-in-bjj/
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Intuitively, I could understand that if BJJ is focused *only* on grappling that this leaves its students to fend for themselves in a striking fight, but:
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This unsourced and rather ungrammatical line at the beginning seems more like an attempt to discredit BJJ than to add to a reader's general knowledge:
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exactly correct that the data on pressure points was figured out long ago. The conclusion is that they are bullshit. Please stop editing this topic.
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different schools in terms of the utilization of pure or yielding technique versus skillful application of pressure to overcome an opponent.
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concepts, events, and biographies on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I'd say we should strike the entire sentence unless someone could supply affirmative answers to the above two questions. Tks
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090522083358/http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/217/217.F3d.1060.98-16386.98-15672.html
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JJIF has also announced itself as the governing body to sport jujutsu systems like bjj. So yes IBJJF is not the only one.
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description of the sport. I moved it with hopes that others will work to improve its quality. Thanks to all who assist. –
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Thanks for the response! Your first link doesn't seem to work - was there a typo? And I see, GA is the standard.
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This is under the "Etiquette & Customs" section, which is completely unsourced. Does this even make sense?
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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http://brasa.brazilianblackbelt.com/2011/05/comprido-felipe-costa-and-caio-terra-united-against-steroids-in-bjj/
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I can edit the section and place better sources, but a wholesale deletion is I believe to be extreme.
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This article was the subject of a Wiki
Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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what can I do to help the article on its path to "FA" status? Or at least to help it reach "A"?
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This article rates a C-class assessment because it is poorly referenced and it fails to give an
679:"BJJ is not considered effective self-defense by many due to its grappling and grappling only."
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https://web.archive.org/web/20131004222121/http://equipemestrewilson.com/mitsuyo-maeda/?lang=pt
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that throws and pins would NOT count towards victory only submission or loss of consciousness.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090210063301/http://www.judodaunicamp.hpg.ig.com.br/historia.htm
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I created a new section. Because BJJ is a hybrid style and famous for things such as the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120330153126/http://bjjteamconde.com/historiaprotugues.aspx
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and suggestions to help improve this article. If you think something is missing, please
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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1101:), during which it increased its focus on ground fighting and refined its techniques.
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This played against Judo rules in which Pins and throws can award someone a victory.
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It seems the thesis is promoted by
Roberto Pedreira in several books, for example
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https://web.archive.org/web/20111108182804/http://www.uiowa.edu/~armbar/safety.htm
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1051:. An agreement was made under what would be known as the "Gracie Rules" via the
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which is similar in execution is markedly different from modern BJJ. Thoughts?
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http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/217/217.F3d.1060.98-16386.98-15672.html
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The Gracie Way: Illustrated History of the World's Greatest Martial Arts Family
685:(1) Is this indeed what BJJ does? and (2) Does anyone have a source for this?
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continued to develop the system throughout the 20th century, often fighting
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994:. I benefited from reading it when I started off in my editing efforts. –
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1033:. This would be the last of Helio's matches that involved striking (i.e.
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the sources I added to the article about it being a self-defence system?
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1061:. Amongst those in attendance in the match was Brazilian President
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on what is the best way to describe Helio's contribution. Thanks. –
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What does it take to make this article an "A" or FL quality article?
1044:− Helio Gracie issued a challenge to a highly touted Judoka named
1030:. Santana would go on to knock out Helio with a kick to the head.
820:, as contributing to the art/sport/technique, but nothing more. –
1831:"Not teaching or explaining techniques to lower ranked students."
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Wiki Education assignment: English 101.02 Writing and Rhetoric I
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do you have any suggestions on what you think could be improved?
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles in Everyday life
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http://equipemestrewilson.com/mitsuyo-maeda/?lang=pt
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http://www.judodaunicamp.hpg.ig.com.br/historia.htm
1395:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
880:because this article is about BJJ in general. You
652:"Paradise jiu-jitsu club thrives in tight quarters"
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876:Crazy, adding all of that material about Helio is
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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540:This article is supported by
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42:Put new text under old text.
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1328:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
945:Yes. But we must write in
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1754:Thoughts?
1374:Sourcecheck
1311:3primetime3
1238:WP:MARTIALP
988:WP:BLOWITUP
878:WP:OFFTOPIC
148:free images
31:not a forum
1855:Categories
1762:BasicsOnly
1731:BasicsOnly
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1655:Praxidicae
1640:BasicsOnly
1621:BasicsOnly
1611:kosen judo
1594:Report bug
1444:Report bug
1280:WP:MARTIAL
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1261:Srich32977
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1177:Assessment
1131:References
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771:BasicsOnly
752:BasicsOnly
721:BasicsOnly
321:guidelines
1817:Badger TB
1577:this tool
1570:this tool
1427:this tool
1420:this tool
1089:− The
1035:Vale Tudo
992:WP:BETTER
249:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1770:contribs
1758:unsigned
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1617:unsigned
1583:Cheers.—
1433:Cheers.—
1304:Question
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575:Archives
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1467:my edit
1360:checked
1337:my edit
1284:S. Rich
1246:S. Rich
1187:S. Rich
1183:overall
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522:on the
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142:scholar
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1081:judoka
1027:Helio.
957:). –
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495:Brazil
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437:Sports
432:Brazil
257:scale.
126:Google
951:WP:RS
818:WP:RS
238:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
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1807:and
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162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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514:Low
176:TWL
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