1068:. I could go on and on. But why werent the Roman capitals ever sacked? Well, look at a map. Rome was thousands of miles away in Italy, impossible to reach. Constantinople was protected by sea, and Constantinople is acknowledged as being one of the most strategically placed cities ever. It could only be attacked by land on one side, the European side. Constantinople has been sieged by European tribes, by Iranians, by Arabs, and by Turks, and it was only when the cannon finally came into use that Constantinople fell. Its not that the Iranians could not take Constantinople because of their own faults, but because Constatinople, no matter how small of weak its defending force was, was able to hold out because of its strategic position. Infact, if Constantinople was not as strategically located as it was, Byzantium would
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1041:. It was much easier for Rome to invade and sack Iranian cities as Mesopotamia consists of flat, almost impossible to defend, land. All of the cities are exposed. Ctesiphon was sieged several times and sacked several times for this very reason. The same for Iran. Iran did not have a tough time sacking any of Romes cities in Mesopotamia either. Also, the invasion of the heartland you are talking about is taken out of context. This only happened once (as far as I remember) and this was because a
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a tactic still used today (it was used by the
Russians against Napoleons armies). Also, capital cities in Iran were not as important as capital cities in the West, as Iran was easily flexible enough to move its capital, and in fact many times had numerous capitals all at the same time. Ctesiphon was not as important for the Sassanids as Rome or Constantinople were for the Romans.
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1218:. The victorius "crusaders" replaced the Holy Cross at Jerusalem, which had been taken by the Parthians. The Third Byzantine-Persian War was over, and the Byzantines now turned to reclaiming their African provinces." Okay so they say Parthians but who cares, we all agree that the Parthians are different from the Sassanids even if they were their "successors"
1165:"Tribute" The tribute was a mere payment that can be found in many treaties in the medieval times, signifying no vassal status that you seem to be implying. The Byzantines invaded Persia several times and sacked Ctesiphon many times too as the Romans. Yet the Sassanids only managed to get to Anotalia in the last war and merely besisged Constantinople.
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B) Now lets examine the Iran's invasions of
Byzantium. The Sassanids, unlike the Byzantines, almost annihilated their foe completely. Not only did they take all of Byzantium's land in North Africa and the Near East, but they sieged Constantinople twice. In their previous wars, Sassanid victories were
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So is
Anastasian War a proper name for a specific phase of the long wars between the Byzantines and the Persians? (B/c I capitalised the "w" in war.) My only concern with the title is that it be a proper name for the war if scholars have one and that it be the best decriptive term for this series of
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Sassanid force lured the
Byzantines deep within Iran as a strategy, and then proceeded to destroy the army (this was actually one of Romes most humiliating defeats). The Romans were made to believe that they were unstoppable, and then when the time was right, their army was almost annihilated. It is
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How can it be a victory if your side was losing for over 20 years and then just managed to make it so that the other side accepts the pre-War boundaries? That is not a victory, it is a stalemate. Iraq did not beat Iran when Iran had to pull out of Iraqi territory as a result of the peace treaty, the
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have lasted as long as it did. The only thing that kept the
Byzantines going for so long was not their military, not their technology, not their tactics, but their capital. If it wasnt for their well defended capital, the Byzantines would have first been defeated by the European "barbarian" tribes.
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Ok this is just your opinion, which despite how much I respect, it cannot count as a source. If you're not convinced by
Britannica then I'll come back with more citations later. Though this really is common knowledge. You're using the same logic that would apply on a football game. Winning a battle
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The
Sassanids did not fail to do anything. Infact, when the peace treaty was signed, almost all Byzantine territory was still in the hands of the Sassanids, including all of Anatolia (there was still a 10,000 man strong army right across the Bosphorus from Constatinople). Heraclius simply landed in
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As I already explained, teh last war is the one that counts, since its effect is the one decided the outcome - the
Sassanids had over-extended themselves, were defeated at Issus and Ninevah and the Byzantine armies reached Ctesiphon, forcing the Sassanids to sue for peace. It was not a stalemate. A
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Do you know what a stalemate even is? Its when you and your opponent can not make a decisive move. Like North Korea, where the
Chinese and UN were at stalemate, or World war 1. However, the Byzantines threatened Ctesiphon at the end of the war. The Persians were winning the war but then they lost.
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Tourskin has proved his knowledge, interest and neutral stance via numerous contributions in medieval warfare. Azarbaijani uses blunt language because he can't accept the mainstream view on the outcome of
Byzantine-Sassanian war. I suggest to drop the outcome question at the moment, it is of minor
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You claim that I know little, but here this evidence counters yours. Remember, this is a discussion, regardless of age. If one does not know the knowledge, than one does not discuss. But I clearly have some fair points here so please don't insult other people I am not questioning your judgement so
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Ajerbaijani, I don't know you, but judging from your name you must be incrediably biased. You don't know me, so how can yousay I have no historical knowledge? Western bias? I am from Iraq originally and am more Persian than Romann let alone Western. Why don't you stop deviating from the main topic
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One more thing, Ctesiphon was sacked by the Romans numerous times, the lands of Persia was inavded numerous times (the heartland). Yet the larger Roman empire never had either of its capitals sacked and Anatalia was only occupied by the Persians briefly in the last campaign. Besides, Heraclius did
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effort and provide a source for your claims. Right now I've got already cited 3 sources and you have cited none, so accusing me for a POV just makes you look silly. Anyway in several articles it is stated that Byzantium defeated the Sassanians, I've only cited one. If you could be more neutral and
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Wow, that above comment made no sense at all. We should keep the article neutral until an agreement is made, not have the article be the way you like it until an agreement is made. What evidences have you brought that says that the Byzantines won the entire Byzantine Sassanid wars? None. How can
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If the article is disputed, should not the article remain untouched until the dispute is resolved? To that end, it should be restored to how the author (me!) had it in the first place, that is, as a Roman victory. Then after we resolve the dispute, we should change it, if necessary and with some
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Emperor Julian was defeated, Valerian was defeated, etc... What do you have to say about that? Do you know how many times Byzantium was forced to sign peace treaties after decisive defeats? Infact, Byzantium at one point was paying tribute to the Sassanids yearly. What do you have to say about
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Actually Britannica separates the war of Persia againt Rome, and Persia against Byzantium, i.e. the split that you have been opposing. The 8-century continuous conflict view is your unsourced original thought. If you want to accuse me for having a POV then you might as well make the minimum
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Armenia and went straight for the capital. You guys dont even know the history of what you are talking about. Persia was not defeated, there were even those who insisted that the fight should go again (the Sassanids had armies in Egypt, Mesopotamia, Khorasan, Anatolia, etc...).
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Where does Britannica say that the Perso-Roman wars was fought with a Byzantine victory? Are you kidding me, the only person with a POV is you. You even have to resort to distorting a Britannica quote, which has nothing to do with this topic, in order keep the POV in the
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Oh yes I forgot to say, the warbox result is rather long. It's just my opinion, but isn't it best to keep it as short as possible. How about just writing. "Re-instatement of pe-war boundaries." I'll make the change, and if no one like it, just reply and change it back.
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I agree with Tourskin, I won't edit the article again until the dispute is settled. Let's leave the winner/loser question of the Byzantine-Persian conflict for later. Let us concentrate on the split for the time being. I made some proposals on the other article.
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do the whole talking. Of course we can take some of the valuable info from here and transport it. But I simply see no reason to have this summarized, unsourced and weak article simply exist when we have a more concise, detailed and sourced article on the whole
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Khosrow Parvīz (Persian: “Khosrow the Victorious”) late Sāsānian king of Persia (reigned 590–628), under whom the empire achieved its greatest expansion. Defeated at last in a war with the Byzantines, he was deposed in a palace revolution and
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C) Regarding Heraclius, you really dont know much do you? He landed his forced in Armenia. He had his Turkic allies raid Iran's Caucasian holdings to distract some forces, and then he went straight for Ctesiphon, fighting battles along the
996:. Both sides won wars, both sides lost wars. Infact, if my memory serves me correctly, the majority of the wars were won by Iran, not the Romans, and many more were simply stalemates with no clear winner. You are trying to lump up
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Clearly "Byzantine-Sassanid" is a descriptive term, but is it also a commonly applied scholarly term which can only refer to this series of conflicts? And can you provide a source? (The article is severly short on those.)
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The previous wars were very indecisive. The Persians tried and failed to take the Byzantine lands. Ajerbajani, you are not giving any evidence whatsoever as to why it was a draw. So tell me, why? When clearly:
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What do you mean it made no sense? If something is disputed, you don't edit it before the dispute is over. The article said Roman victory before the dispute. So it should remain that way until the dispute is
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Tourskin, I dont know who you are or what part of history you study, but you lack of knowledge on the geography and history of this conflict, as well as your Western bias, hampers you ability to debate your
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The Perso-Roman conflict was a series of wars which spanned 8 centuries. So how can you claim that the Byzantines won the entire conflict simply by "winning" one war? This is hilarious, and evidence of your
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Azerbaijani please refrain from being personal to other editors. Tourskin made valid points and you have responded with your personal opinion, which is by no means an argument here. I responded to you in
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I have made quite a bit of edits for just general proofreading. But there is still a load left. This article needs more proofreaders. I'm also going to add to the warbox, it seems rather short.--
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is one thing, winning a war is another, and there's a very clear distinction between the two. One battle can be sufficient to judge a war, no matter how many battles were lost beforehand.
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Turkish allies were used by the Byzantines, but then again the Persians coordinated their attacks with rebellions by the Jews in Palestine and the religious riots in the Levant and Egypt.
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Furthermoore, your problem is your instance that the capital was Rome when in fact it was long lost by the 5th century and even when recovered by Justinian, it remained as Constantinople.
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Hi. No, it is not a Wikipedian neologism and it is used in scholarly sources. "Byzantine-Sassanid Wars" is just a descriptive title for a series of wars each of which has its own name.--
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You are assuming that the result of the last war (which was a stalemate anyways) is the same result which should be imposed on the whole conflict, which is utterly bias and incorrect.
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It appears that the outcome of the Byzantine-Persian war is crystal clear. If the Iranians insist on regarding it an a continuous Roman-Persian war, then this is the sole outcome.
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If the Falklands war was a British victory and it was a counter attack reclaiming what it had, then so was this war in which the Persians failed to take the Eastern Provinces.
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Mesopatamia remained a Byzantine as well as a Persian sphere of influence as seen in the battles against the Arabs, yet before Mesopatamia was well within Sassanid domain
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1214:) though they inaccuractley say 436 AD when it was 476 AD when rome was sacked. Quoting from the article: "The final battle was fought at Jerusalem in A.D. 630, and
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The Sassanis lost because they were forced to accept Heraclius' terms. Whatabout the Falklands war? Or the Turkish war of independence, was that a draw or a victory?
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importance. Let's concentrate on the splitting dispute and get back to this later. I've already gathered some citations, I hope Azerbaijani will do the same.
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The Britannica article states that Khosrow was defeated which is correct, but the Byzantine Sassanid Wars (title of the article) was a stalemate.
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Its a start that I hope and expect will be modified. In the mean time, I will try to make some maps refelecting the front in the various wars.
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to a war, which is ridiculous. In the series of conflicts between Iran and the Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire, there was never a clear winner,
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true stalemate is when no decisive result can be achieved, yet Ninevah and Issus were decisive victories. Besides, check out the
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The last war I called a war of exahustion. If there are official labels, we'll use those. They did both exhaust each other.
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Azerbaijani, I am not denying that the Sassanids were more than a match, Just the final outcome was victorius for Romans.
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Roman Emperors were defeated by Persia as well, does this mean that Persia won the war? Your edits are amazingly biased.
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not defeat the Persians by sneaking past all of their armies and heading for the capital. Look at Issus or Ninevah.
1130:, there's an abundancy of sources making a distinction between the conflicts. Original thought is not the answer.
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The Persians overthrew the Persian King cos he didn't want peace so they installed someone who would make peace
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I did a quick research through books.google. The term, in its various forms, is certainly used by scholars:
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299:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
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Also, in many of Iran's battle victories, the Iranian forces were actually outnumbered by the Byzantines.
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Why don't look at teh FINAL RESULT. Hitler won the first three years of World war 2. Yet he was crushed.
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Does this war have a name in scholarly writing? Or is "Byzantine-Sassanid Wars" a Wikipedian neologism?
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I also named the first part of the conflict "Transition war" because its a transition from Roman --: -->
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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discusses about probable raids into Cyrenaica and Nubia after the capture of Egypt by the Sasanians. --
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Heraclius landed in Armenia good for you and for him, but thefact remains that he won the last war.
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Ok, now I will address your last comment about Ctesiphon being sacked, Persia being invaded etc...
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b/c there is still no consensus on exactly when the "Byzantine" era of Roman history began. --
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and try to come up with good evidence against what me and Miskin are trying to point out here.
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on 2020-04-17. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see
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which calls the outcome a "decisive Byzantine victory". A contemporary Greek work written by
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In a war, the final decisive acts determine the outcome. World War 2 is a classical example.
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less patriotic about this topic it's going to be easier for everyone to make contributions.
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Tourskin don't feel too bad, after all it also exhausted the Romans and Persians, LOL.--
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Do you even attempt to learn anything about the subject you are trying to cover?
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of conflicts into the last war so that you can justify your historical bias.
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Iran Iraq war is acknowledged as a stalemate. This war ended in a stalemate.
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In addition, the outcome of the Byzantine-Persian war is reflected in the
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Three sources of strength enabled Heraclius to turn defeat into victory"
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You know what, this war has exhausted me. Do with it as anyone will's.
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sources and evidence. That means you Ajerbaijani! No offence intended.
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I'd suggest just destroying this article altogether, and allowing the
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Small mistake there the majority of wars were won by the romans
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For example Britannica's article "Byzantine Empire" states: "
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Redirect-Class Roman and Byzantine military history articles
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The Roman Persian wars were a series of wars and conflicts,
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wars if there is no common scholarly term for the whole.
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This war was a stalement, no bias edits can change this
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Exact geographical extent of the conflict in Africa
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53:This is the
1470:conflict.--
1251:Azerbaijani
1111:Azerbaijani
998:8 centuries
887:Azerbaijani
873:Persian War
819:Azerbaijani
791:Azerbaijani
182:free images
65:not a forum
42:its history
1503:Categories
32:page were
1319:Thanks.--
1305:Proofread
1039:geography
869:Procopius
740:executed.
507:Byzantine
271:Classical
122:if needed
105:Be polite
61:redirect.
55:talk page
1335:Tourskin
1296:Tourskin
1285:Tourskin
1273:Tourskin
1236:Tourskin
1229:Original
1220:Tourskin
1203:Tourskin
1178:Tourskin
1143:Tourskin
945:Tourskin
927:Tourskin
900:Tourskin
811:article.
728:Tourskin
709:Tourskin
468:Abkhazia
459:Abkhazia
418:Abkhazia
275:Medieval
233:redirect
90:get help
63:This is
1329:Hell...
717:Victory
188:WP refs
176:scholar
1262:Miskin
1247:series
1189:Miskin
1132:Miskin
877:Miskin
852:Miskin
835:Miskin
830:WP:ATT
802:Miskin
746:Miskin
558:Greece
549:Greece
502:Greece
239:scale.
160:Google
34:merged
1448:Srnec
1438:Kober
1425:Kober
1380:Srnec
1370:Kober
1360:Srnec
1354:Title
1271:over.
1109:case.
1070:never
994:never
817:bias.
771:that?
690:Start
231:This
203:JSTOR
164:books
118:Seek
36:into
1091:way.
779:fact
196:FENS
170:news
107:and
1436:.--
987:War
210:TWL
1505::
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88:;
1491:Z
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206:·
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162:(
92:.
44:.
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