1688:"...While the comma convention may be more popular, in the case of most of these articles, I question whether that is really appropriate in the (always special) case of Washington, D.C., where the city and larger district are co-terminous, and with no named political subdivisions but rather a collection of (often informally) designated neighborhoods. The comma implies a formality, an official-ness, to these places that is simply not present. The parenthetical construction strikes me as the more appropriate in this case."
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mechanics of Riggs Bank". Same problem. The only mention on page 12 of your third source that comes close is, "Typical is the
Farmers and Mechanics Bank of Georgetown, which purchased a three-story brick building at 31st and M Streets, N.W. , in 1814." That refers to the name of the bank, and an unnamed building bought in 1814, but this building was completed in 1922. You may be right, but we still need a source. Got anything else? --
1648:. In 2010, I moved many of these pages to parenthetical disambiguation, because that was the guideline at the time. The guideline has changed to comma disambiguation now. So that narrows the choices. The city is Washington, so Washington should be the disambiguator, but Washington rarely appears without D.C. appended to it. So I think choice 2 is the best option for when disambiguation is necessary. --
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1805:. Thanks, epicgenius, for doing this, and I'm sorry I'm a little late to the conversation. As I said in the prior discussion, I prefer the parenthetical form. To restate slightly what I said earlier (quoted above), the all-comma format reads too much like - like a mailing address, like an actual, formally designated place within DC; and to a local's eye it reads wrong - it
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and
Bloomingdale, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. Even without a policy specifically saying so, it is bedrock common sense that titles should not mislead readers about characteristics of the article subject. There is also no consensus for omitting the internal punctuation from "Washington, D.C.", which would be inconsistent with the parent article,
2037:, I am familiar comma delimiters for places in the Western US, but now that you mention it, not so much on the east coast where state borders are encountered on a daily basis. Would you say that comma delimiters are uncommon broadly on the east coast, or especially uncommon in DC? Not sure why, but I am guessing you are from DC? --
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I'm not able to find such a source, since most references to the building are historical and refer to it at a time when the
Farmers and Mechanics National Bank was coextensive with the building. I see your point, but for the foregoing reason, I'm hesitant to make so fine a distinction. Doing so would
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Right. Except in very rare cases where brackets are used in a name, bracket use clearly denotes WP-style disambiguation and does not suggest such use is commonly used in reliable source. Disambiguation with comma should only be used in cases where such usage is common in reliable sources, because for
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is the
Farmers and Mechanics Bank. The first source says "the inside-and-out restoration of the 1922 Farmers and Mechanics branch at Wisconsin Avenue and M Street NW in Georgetown". Lower-case letters don't suggest a proper name, and even still, not a match. The second source says "he old farmer and
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I suggest that "DC" is not like "NY" or "OH" in that "DC" is frequently spoken. Sometimes "PA" and "MA" are used in speech, I think because the state names are a little bit difficult for some, but not nearly as often as "DC". However, I don't actually suggest "DC" in isolation of "Washington", but
2108:. Commas and dots are all very good, but too much is too much, and too much is the whole problem here. The punctuated "Washington DC" is commonly used in many places. Parentheses are contrary to real world usage. "District of Columbia" is nearly "obscure" in usage compared to "Washington DC". --
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part of the city of
Washington, and we should also avoid constructions which might suggest to unfamiliar readers that there are multiple Bloombingdales in the District of Columbia, in the same way that there are Bloomingdale, Carbon County, Pennsylvania, Bloomingdale, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania,
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Many neighborhoods in DC have demographic information obtained from someplace (see
Bloomingdale & Columbia Heights Articles). As of now I've changed the heading of "Demographics" to "African-American History" as that's literally all it is. If anyone has any actual Demographics information, I'd
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to conform the others to this title. Nevertheless, I find it to be an overriding consideration that comma disambiguation for these titles would mislead readers into thinking that these were formal, legal distinctions comparable to those of cities in states. There is no neighborhood portion of the
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difficult close, for a number of reasons. First, we have inconsistency across a range of titles, so we can't leave this as is. Even if there is no consensus for a specific solution, some group of pages must be moved. Second, as a
Washington, D.C. area resident, I am personally keenly aware of the
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It only makes sense that
Washington be treated as a city-level administrative unit and District of Columbia as a state-level unit (as is typically done today and historically), even though they are coterminous. Using the comma instead of parentheses makes DC articles more in line with other U.S.
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For those buildings, at least we have NRHP applications to which to cite and that substantiate the name of the buildings at the time of the application, if not now. For this one, we don't have any sources to substantiate the name as titled currently at the article. On the other hand, the city
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strange nature of the jurisdiction as something more than a city but less than a state, and of the fact that the neighborhoods of D.C. are not separate legal jurisdictions. It is also worth noting that the comma disambiguator is more prevalent within this group, meaning that it would be less
1813:". There is only "Washington D.C.", which has within it generally understood, but informal, neighborhoods with generally (though not universally) agreed boundaries. Neighborhoods also may appear and disappear, even overlap, based on custom (or - IMHO - real estate marketing efforts) - see
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I should have been clearer. Comma delimiters are common to identify cities, towns, counties etc. in the east, I’m sure as much as anywhere in the country. Commas are *un*common in this particular instance, namely, in denoting informal neighborhoods in DC, which is a single undifferentiated
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Commas are commonly used in postal addresses to identify a place, whereas brackets aren't. A comma delimited title may be a disambiguator or an actual address, and it's not obvious which, when you look at it. A bracketed disambiguator is only that - an unambiguous disambiguator.
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as an example of both this fluidity, and vague boundaries. Whatever may be the standard form for disambiguation, Washington, D.C. is (as it always seems) a special case, being both a city-level and a state-level unit, and if a special rule suits it better - well, we can do that.
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Well, I might've misunderstood what you were suggesting, but I wasn't joking. "DC", like "NY" or "OH" are not actual abbreviations but USPS conveniences, and I don't think suitable as titles in
Knowledge articles. Even if people don't actually pronounce the periods!
1866:. Unique titles and titles of primary topic articles should not be disambiguated. I oppose use of comma in these cases because these places are not commonly referred to in this way, so we shouldn't use it and wrongly imply that is how they're commonly referenced. --
1556:- this naming format is currently used by most DC neighborhood articles. It may follow WP:NCPLACE, as it does use a comma preceding "Washington, D.C.". However, this proposed naming format would use two commas, something that is used in other cities (such as
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Hi
Ordinary. Georgetown was stripped of its city charter in the 1870s and was fully absorbed by the City of Washington in 1895. As a result, there is no longer any census data done specifically for Georgetown. The best we can do is check out the
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for those requiring disambiguation. This is the standard way of handling disambiguation on Knowledge, so neighborhoods should follow suit. Note that this is already standard for DC and many other places, including all of them in Florida - cf
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The pronunciation of the periods in "D.C." is indeed very very subtle, many would deny it at all. However, there is a pronunciation difference with the comma, "Washinging, D.C." usually spoken "Washington D.C." (which I would suggest,
1988:. Yes the US may (confusingly) use commas as a common part of the name but that doesn't mean that's the case in other countries for example Scotland. If the larger settlement or state was part of the name I would expect we would have
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1572:- this naming format avoids a double comma, and it treats DC like a state-level subdivision. However, "District of Columbia" is not the name of the main article about the city, and this does not follow WP:NCPLACE.
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There is an associated story about this fire involving a famous letter to Congressman Davy Crockett from one of his constituents that Crockett's vote for the above appropriation was "unconstitutional."
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If its done with Austin, it can be done here to. We could possibly remove the "DC" but that may create ambiguity with the state and the city is commonly called "Washington DC" anyway.
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five years ago fizzled out with no consensus. I attempted to move these pages to a consistent naming format a few weeks ago, but I didn't know about the previous requested move until
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and add up the census tracts; the population that currently resides in what is now "Old Georgetown" is about 14,000. Unfortunately, we can't use that in the article because it's all
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articles, like New York City neighborhoods. I also think it looks cleaner; I don't think anybody would be seriously tripped up by the fact that the title would have two commas.
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1882:. You might as well argue that using brackets implies that they are commonly referred to like that. To be clear I also only support doing this with those that need it.
1788:. Parenthetical disambiguation should only be used when there isn't a simple and correct comma disambiguation, and there is. Don't see why two commas are a big deal.
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I don't know - I can't hear you! (In more seriousness, while I've enjoyed this colloquy, we may be straining the others' patience, so I'm inclined to stop now.)
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How does using commas imply its common use but using brackets doesn't? WP's standard formatting is that places the higher place in brackets, not commas such as
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The demographics section currently only deals with historic statistics, mainly from the 19th century. Are any 21st century demographic statistics available?
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told me about it. In the interest of gathering consensus about a consistent naming format, here are five options for moving all of the pages listed above:
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1536:- this naming format is used by this article. It has the benefit of avoiding a double comma, and it fits with the name of the city's main article,
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I'm fine with having only the address, though it does seem rather inelegant compared to using a proper name, even if it's one that is unofficial.
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These non-ambiguous neighborhoods have been excluded from this requested move. I am only covering articles on neighborhoods with disambiguators.
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Commas in most countries are used in the same way as brackets, also as a WP-style disambiguation, rather than commonly used names. Consider
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Not sure if you are joking. I refer to their dislike for periods and commas, not the codes and allcaps. Just the stripping of
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I'm sure there are any number of ways to name places; but my point - that commas are common, and other forms less so, stands.
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In what year between 1827 and 1835 did Georgetown catch on fire and what Congressional Act provided $ 10,000 for its rebuilding?
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I looked at these sources in the underlying article before I made the change. The contention is that the name of the building
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Agree re USPS. But I disagree that adopting their computer-readable abbreviations is sound as an article naming convention.
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I agree that the address is inelegant, and suggest, “PNC Bank, originally constructed in ____ as a branch of Farmers etc.”.
1515:– I would like to determine if there can be a consistent naming format for articles about Washington, D.C. neighborhoods. A
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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property database calls it 1201 Wisconsin. Is there another reason you are confident that you have the name correct? --
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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is common for towns and cities, but not for suburbs and neighbourhoods, and urbanized satellite cities. --
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The sourcing on this claimed proper name is quite thin, and in any event the F&M name is not in any
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I might be more inclined to agree if people pronounced “DC” any differently at *all* than “D.C.”.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Basic information to add to this article: the average income for residents of this neighborhood.
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but not strongly. Typically, Knowledge disambiguators are in parentheses. A comment by
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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I have modified the caption of the infobox to reflect the name of the buiding as
2235:. The second has a distinct comma-pause, the first not. Or is that just me? --
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2160:. "Washington DC" is what people say, no pausing for the commas or periods. --
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I understand. I was just preemptively weighing in in case of mission creep.
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usage. The building should be referred to by the name of its current owner.
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applying the result of this poll to non-ambiguous D.C. neighborhoods like
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B-Class National Register of Historic Places articles of High-importance
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correct. There is no "Mount Pleasant, Washington, D.C." like there is "
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I commend/blame the usps.com for pushing styles in this direction. --
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Georgetown Neighborhood Library, 3260 R St. NW, Washington, D.C. 20007
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since settlements in the U.S. are usually disambiguated by commas.
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High-importance National Register of Historic Places articles
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Riggs National Bank, Washington Loan and Trust Company Branch
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Knowledge:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places
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treating "Washington DC" as like a state name, like how "
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Template:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places
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from being named as such, which doesn't seem plausible.
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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http://www.thehoya.com/eg/campus/locations/redsquare.cfm
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B-Class National Register of Historic Places articles
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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Knowledge requested photographs in Washington, D.C.
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916:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
749:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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1860:Support 1 ONLY for those requiring disambiguation
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894:http://www.rootsweb.com/~dcgenweb/georgetown.htm
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33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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2020:and ambiguous. So why hasten to employ them?
1980:, though the latter could possibly be moved to
1766:Category:Neighborhoods in Jacksonville, Florida
884:http://www.georgetowndc.com/aboutgeorgetown.php
902:This message was posted before February 2018.
735:This message was posted before February 2018.
2227:, if people want to keep it dotty). Compare
2194:" is used instead of the full state name. --
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842:I have just modified 4 external links on
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1576:Option 4: Move all pages to the format
1564:Option 3: Move all pages to the format
1558:Category:Neighborhoods in Austin, Texas
1548:Option 2: Move all pages to the format
1528:Option 1: Move all pages to the format
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1596:- keep the current titles as they are.
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2295:Re: Name of building in infobox photo
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1365:Observatory Circle, Washington, D.C.
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362:Knowledge:WikiProject United States
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1395:Pleasant Plains, Washington, D.C.
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846:. Please take a moment to review
687:. Please take a moment to review
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1371:The Palisades, Washington, D.C.
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1215:Fort Lincoln (Washington, D.C.)
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975:Requested move 23 November 2018
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2012:18:37, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
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1874:21:40, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
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1711:06:37, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
1675:21:24, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
1658:18:59, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
1540:. However, it may not follow
1209:Fort Davis (Washington, D.C.)
1143:Chevy Chase, Washington, D.C.
1125:Buena Vista, Washington, D.C.
1101:Blue Plains, Washington, D.C.
1041:Georgetown (Washington, D.C.)
1035:15:21, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
1010:District of Columbia that is
844:Georgetown (Washington, D.C.)
829:01:30, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
803:04:50, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
685:Georgetown (Washington, D.C.)
505:and see a list of open tasks.
420:This article is supported by
42:Put new text under old text.
25:Georgetown (Washington, D.C.)
1819:Swampoodle, Washington, D.C.
1690:I would add that I strongly
1634:00:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
1443:Swampoodle, Washington, D.C.
1431:Stronghold, Washington, D.C.
1323:Manor Park, Washington, D.C.
1293:Kenilworth, Washington, D.C.
1257:Good Hope (Washington, D.C.)
1185:Eckington (Washington, D.C.)
1113:Brightwood, Washington, D.C.
970:09:25, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
2225:Georgetown, Washington D.C.
1509:Woodridge, Washington, D.C.
1473:Wakefield, Washington, D.C.
1377:Park View, Washington, D.C.
1353:Navy Yard, Washington, D.C.
1281:Hillcrest, Washington, D.C.
1275:Hillbrook, Washington, D.C.
1269:Hawthorne, Washington, D.C.
1263:Greenway (Washington, D.C.)
1197:Fairlawn (Washington, D.C.)
1191:Edgewood (Washington, D.C.)
1167:Douglass (Washington, D.C.)
1161:Crestwood, Washington, D.C.
1149:Chinatown, Washington, D.C.
1131:Burrville, Washington, D.C.
1119:Brookland, Washington, D.C.
1107:Brentwood, Washington, D.C.
1071:Arboretum, Washington, D.C.
1065:Southwest, Washington, D.C.
1059:Southeast, Washington, D.C.
1053:Northwest, Washington, D.C.
1047:Northeast, Washington, D.C.
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
2543:
2301:Farmers and Mechanics Bank
1960:many place names it is. --
1590:- some other naming format
1579:<Neighborhood name: -->
1567:<Neighborhood name: -->
1551:<Neighborhood name: -->
1531:<Neighborhood name: -->
1503:Woodmont, Washington, D.C.
1491:Woodland, Washington, D.C.
1485:West End, Washington, D.C.
1455:Trinidad, Washington, D.C.
1383:Petworth, Washington, D.C.
1287:Kalorama, Washington, D.C.
1245:Gateway (Washington, D.C.)
1233:Foxhall (Washington, D.C.)
1173:Downtown, Washington, D.C.
1077:Bellevue, Washington, D.C.
933:(last update: 5 June 2024)
839:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
766:(last update: 5 June 2024)
680:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
671:21:42, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
537:project's importance scale
388:project's importance scale
2105:Georgetown, Washington DC
1919:Barugh (Great and Little)
1461:Twining, Washington, D.C.
1419:Skyland, Washington, D.C.
1335:Mayfair, Washington, D.C.
1305:Langdon, Washington, D.C.
1089:Berkley, Washington, D.C.
1083:Benning, Washington, D.C.
530:
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318:WikiProject United States
287:
260:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
2285:Please do not modify it.
1811:Mount Pleasant, Michigan
1601:This previous discussion
1449:Takoma, Washington, D.C.
989:Please do not modify it.
323:United States of America
835:External links modified
676:External links modified
565:It is requested that a
415:Washington, D.C. portal
1603:may also be relevant.
1581:, District of Columbia
1569:(District of Columbia)
1413:Shaw, Washington, D.C.
1299:Kent, Washington, D.C.
561:
400:
368:United States articles
242:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
1974:Paisley, Renfrewshire
645:. I have not seen an
588:may be able to help!
560:
399:
195:Auto-archiving period
100:Neutral point of view
1594:Option 6: Do nothing
1517:similar move request
914:regular verification
747:regular verification
600:and other web sites.
310:United States portal
278:District of Columbia
105:No original research
2358:Riggs National Bank
1990:Jackson Mississippi
904:After February 2018
737:After February 2018
594:WordPress Openverse
579:improve its quality
577:in this article to
336:Articles Requested!
1553:, Washington, D.C.
1533:(Washington, D.C.)
998:Moved per Option 1
958:InternetArchiveBot
909:InternetArchiveBot
791:InternetArchiveBot
742:InternetArchiveBot
592:The external tool
562:
401:
248:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
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821:76.4.72.216
148:free images
31:not a forum
2471:Categories
1986:WP:NATURAL
1864:Cuchullain
1770:Cúchullain
1724:epicgenius
1605:epicgenius
1542:WP:NCPLACE
965:Report bug
798:Report bug
567:photograph
2338:currently
2237:SmokeyJoe
2196:SmokeyJoe
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948:this tool
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781:this tool
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663:BROBAFETT
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2425:JohnInDC
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2396:Ergo Sum
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1790:SnowFire
1670:Ergo Sum
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954:Cheers.—
817:unsigned
787:Cheers.—
651:epicAdam
575:included
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1629:, ed.
848:my edit
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535:on the
386:on the
244:B-class
199:90 days
154:WP refs
142:scholar
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2018:common
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1650:Bsherr
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1024:bd2412
607:Upload
598:Flickr
352:Alerts
250:scale.
126:Google
2231:with
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1807:isn't
169:JSTOR
130:books
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