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778:– Juding from this article's history page, there are various disagreements over the two translated English names, "Grand View Garden" and "Prospect Garden", that are mentioned on this article. As a user already mentioned in the Revision history, "Prospect Garden" is the name that was used by
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In the article, the translations of names used in the novel is problematic because there are no "standard" agreed-upon translations. "Prospect Garden," for example, seems like a loosely paraphrased translation. Grand View is closer to the original
Chinese, and thus more fitting to an academic
821:: Do any English-language reliable sources refer to this as "Daguanyuan"? Moreover, the article's completely unsourced and it's been tagged with an unsourced template for three years. Notability doesn't seem established. Shouldn't it just be merged or deleted? —
786:; however other users argued (such as the above user Catch153) that "Grand View" is closer to the original Chinese title and "Prospect Garden" is "a loosely paraphrased translation". I've also seen the translation "Grand Prospect Garden" that's been used
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The
Chinese is neutral among the English translations, which would have to be redirected in any case. If we go with an English translation, it would have to be the Hawkes version, so better to use the Chinese.
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means. "Grand View" is simply a character-for-character translation which doesn't mean anything specific, begging lots of questions. "View" especially has so many definitions that the original meaning of
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Ahh, it seems like my oppose is the only thing stopping some random WP:RM regular from closing this. So fine, I have no better ideas and the current title has nothing to recommend it.
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exploration of the novel. Another instance of a translation issue is Baoyu's place in the garden, mentioned toward the end of the article. I'm not sure how to deal with this. --
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693:.) In fact, "Grand View" isn't closer to the Chinese original. Besides, "Prospect Garden" sounds far less awkward in English. This isn't a "loose paraphrase" at all. The
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wouldn't that be the title used for the garden in
Beijing modeled after the one in the novel, and not an article on the fictional one from the novel? --
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789:. I think its better just to stick with the romanized Chinese name, "Daguanyuan", while also mentioning these various translated names in the opening.
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Similarly, Merriam-Webster defines "prospect" as "a place that commands an extensive view". Which is exactly what the
Chinese original
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Personally I always try to search and add 1 source to any article before reading Talk/RM. Which means it is sourced now.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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922:. No one has shown any evidence that this is the most commonly used name in English, or really even close. And that
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related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Hi, although it has been five years (!) and no one else has responded, I'd like to defend the translation of
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gets mostly restaurants and apartments, though there is one hit to the
Beijing Hong Lou Meng theme park.
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on
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A fair point, but how do we measure when none of these are exactly household words? Maybe
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as "Prospect Garden". (Anyway I'm ok with the present revert to the transliteration
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applies. It seems best to go with a relevant term. There are better arguments
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/prospect
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An extensive view of landscape. (Definition 4) Link here:
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is better and gets mostly hits that are relevant. Cheers
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replica in Shanghai not as famous as the Beijing one.
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