1154:. The 2 disc version is in a standard jewel case. Neither one comes in anything I'd describe as a "box". If they came slipcased or something like that, maybe, but then you have to wonder if they qualify as a "set," which generally refers to multiple items that would otherwise be released separately. For example, "The Old Masters" or "Beat the Boots" would be box sets since they both come in boxes and both contain multiple individual albums. And since the subject has been brought up, I'm going to go ahead a change the MOFO page from "Box set" to "Compilation album" too.
756:, so why should other artists' albums be treated differently? I'm really tired of Zappa's discography being treated worse off because he's not a mega-platinum selling artist. Just because he didn't sell as much as the big rock guys or the big jazz guys or the big composer guys doesn't make his work less noteworthy, or that he should be disregarded because he didn't sell as many copies as Herbie Hancock or Led Zeppelin. --
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articles then there would be gigantic amounts of duplication and much effort wasted in keeping them in sync. The combined article should be named after the first album with a redirect from the name of the second 'release' (or whatever). There should be a section in the article describing the differences between the two albums - and a
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Is there any reliable source that lists this as a simply a reissue? A source, mind you, that is strong enough to go against Zappa's official discography? Also consider that the current Greasy Love Songs CD and the current Ruben and the Jets CD have no mutual content. You could listen to them both and
1360:
Honestly, this is a no-brainer. Clearly, given the huge similarities here, there is not enough new information to warrant a second article. Without doubt there should be just one
Knowledge (XXG) article that discusses these two things since the material has such huge overlap and if there were two
920:
is marketed as a reissue. It is purely up to the artist (or in this case, the artist's family) to decide what the release should be marketed as. Had Ozzy
Osbourne given the releases of the original mixes a different name and labeled them as "documentaries", we would have to consider them separate
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So you differentiate this from MOFO simply on the basis that the vinyl mix and the bonus material are on the same disc? And none of the
Project/Object releases count as box sets. There's no precedent for calling it a box set if it doesn't come in a box. They all come in one CD case. And no one is
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the album. They have it listed as an official release for promotional purposes to get people to buy the album. You could make any number of claims for this reissue being its own release, but it's still a reissue. Please go through
Allmusic and find any number of unique reissues of any particular
250:
The aforementioned issue of "Cruising with Ruben & the Jets" is out of print and has been replaced with a significantly altered version of the same material in 1985. "Greasy Love Songs" is the only available version of the original mix of the album. Thus, it would constitute a compilation of
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I don't know what versions of MOFO and Lumpy Money you have, but mine come in things that would most definitely qualify them as box set releases. MOFO comes in a huge plastic digipack with the multiple disc format qualifying it as a box, and Lumpy Money comes in a large cardboard digipack, and,
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The majority of the material has been previously issued under the name "Cruising with Ruben & the Jets" in 1968, with the remainder of the material being labeled as "bonus material". Thus, it would constitute a reissue of "Cruising with Ruben & the Jets" with bonus
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And Greasy Love songs comes in a folded silver digipack. What's your point? If a digipack constitutes a "box set", then there are an awful lot of box set albums out there. If it's only one item in one piece, and it doesn't come in a box, how is it a box set?
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a separate release. Taking that under consideration, I have to wonder why you call Zappa's discography "treated worse off" and "disregarded" for following the expressed preferences of Zappa's family. Doesn't that show an increased respect for the artist?
504:? Allmusic says: "the original mix of Ruben remained a strictly analog artifact until 2010 and the release of Greasy Love Songs. the original vinyl mix of Cruisin' with Ruben & the Jets has finally entered the digital age", clearly indicating that
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is a reissue is unsourced and we can't use it regardless of its validity, whereas the claim that it is a separate album is sourced by zappa.com. I know that zappa.com promotes the album, but that doesn't automatically make it unreliable as a source.
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album, plus bonus tracks. Years ago, Ozzy
Osbourne did something similar to what Frank did in having the bass guitar and drum tracks re-recorded on a few of his early albums and reissuing them on CD. Last year or so, he reissued the
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May I ask why you're editing this article to your viewpoint despite an attempt at establishing consensus here? This gives off the impression that you're not interested in consensus and instead present us with a fait
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The point is largely irrelevant anyway. A box set is just a type of compilation. Box sets don't deserve their own articles on the grounds that they're box sets, but on the grounds that they're compilations. Even if
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First of all, other
Knowledge (XXG) pages are not reliable sources when it comes to editing. Second, even if they were, you're citing a quote that contradicts your opinion. That quote clearly says "
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You have a very dated perception. If it has three or more discs, it's a box set. Both MOFO and Lumpy Money come in things that are clearly boxing multiple discs. Greasy is a reissue on one disc. --
845:- "a compilation of various musical recordings, films, television programs, or other collection of related items that are contained in a box." MOFO and Lumpy Money are box sets, end of story.--
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I am in favor of the second viewpoint, but would not object to merging the two articles provided that both are still listed as separate albums on the discography page and template. Discuss. --
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is the same classification, just with a different name attached to it. Having a different name does not make this a compilation that deserves its own article, just as there is no article for
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versions of the albums, without the overdubs, because there was a market for the original versions being reissued due to the fans strongly disliking the remix. But there is no article for
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clearly distinguish themselves as audio documentaries due to having the original albums on their own discs, followed by audio documentary material on a separate disc. This is the original
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with added CGI don't have their own articles -- the original films which attracted such a following and are loved worldwide have articles, NOT the altered versions. The article about
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If that's true (which I doubt) where, in the source, is the term "reissue" used? Because I certainly don't see it. Also, I'd like to point out that the
Allmusic source lists this as "
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1067:. You quote the "box set" article to prove your point that any release with three or more discs is a box set regardless of whether or not it comes in a box, yet the article
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The Zappa Family Trust is not Frank Zappa, but it holds the rights to his material and is authorized by him. You are free to point out valid sources that clearly identify
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would also warrant a separate article if it hadn't been released under the same name. The difference here is the intent with which it was released: The remix was meant to
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that it has to come in a box. If you use sources to back up your claims, make sure they actually do. Pretending otherwise is blatant lying and won't convince anybody. --
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is not. The same is true for all the other reissues one might find on
Allmusic: They're reissues because the majority of the material is available on an existing album.
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that Greasy is a reissue. That should end the matter here and there, but you seem to want to contradict me at every point, despite obvious clear sourced evidence. --
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on the back cover. To most people, if something has three, four or more discs, it is a box set. The exception being legit studio albums that are not compilations.
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comes to mind. I fail to see the point of the single disc vs. box set comparison. Is the validity of an archival release dependent on how many discs it spans? --
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about the reissue matter, and when we point this out to you, you insist that it does without anything to back it up yet accuse us of ignoring facts that
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I don't know if I'd call MOFO a digipack or not. It's similar--it's a big folding piece of vinyl with CD trays in it. It's the same vinyl material as a
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constitutes little more than a reissue of the vinyl mix with bonus tracks. It is not, as the spine claims, an audio documentary. Lastly, Zappa.com is
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of the original album does not mean that they're separate albums. As I mentioned earlier, we don't have an article on the 1984 remix, so why should
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All information on "Greasy Love Songs" could easily be integrated into the "Cruising with Ruben & the Jets" article without loss of information.
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or is it a separate album? In the former case, it should indeed redirect to the latter album; in the latter case, it should keep its own article.
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come in a box. Friginator is arguing that they are not in boxes. The packaging for those two releases look like box sets to me. Second, Allmusic
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That is wrong. It clearly states that it is a reissue, and this is clearly a reissue, so now you are intentionally ignoring sources and facts. --
1313:
is a reissue. The review in question never uses the word "reissue". Repeatedly claiming the contrary doesn't make it true. Also, Allmusic lists
864:" Neither MOFO, Lumpy Money and Greasy Love Songs are contained in a box, unless you count a cardboard or plastic digipack as being a "box".
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1222:. It is not contained in a traditional box, it is contained in a large sleeve with plastic digipack matter to hold the discs. Second, the
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Again, that is the promotional title of the reissue. It's the original album with bonus tracks. Stop ignoring the sources and facts. --
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Allmusic refers to it as a reissue, so it's untrue that "no source exists" because clearly, at least one source calls it a reissue. --
884:". I fail to see how this makes the argument invalid. The remix was meant (and still is meant) to replace the original mix, the remix
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compliments the remix is invalid, because this is simply the original mix, which spawned off the remix, and bonus tracks added. Now,
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180:, an attempt at building a useful resource on recordings from a variety of genres. If you would like to participate, visit the
1059:
I'll reply to everything all in one: What are you trying to accomplish? You present us an excerpt from
Allmusic that mentions
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still has to be listed on the discography page and template. The Zappa Family Trust calls it a separate release, and thus it
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contains hours of recordings not included on the original album, and, as some fans critique, weren't actually a part of the
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zappa.com lists it as an official release, unlike other reissues such as "London
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section describing the circumstances surrounding the re-release and the controversy/confusion amongst fans ('
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Zappa's family is not Zappa, and other non-promotional sources differ from their website. Also, the remix of
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Indeed, the quoted source does not state that this is a reissue. WTF, please read the policy about
1128:, but you both clearly stated that they come in a digipack. A digipack is not a box of any sort. --
882:
The argument that Greasy compliments the remix is invalid, because this is simply the original mix
434:. In that sense, it's an archival release and as such a compilation and not a reissue. Stuff like
1271:
Second, in the copyright information for the most recent edition of the Big Brother/Janis Joplin
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if we reach a consensus that the two releases are better documented in a single article. But
402:, on the other hand, is a compilation of material you cannot find anywhere else. The remixed
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exist as a separate article for the vinyl version? Also, come on, really, you don't believe
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you wouldn't hear a single track repeated twice. Neither has material present on the other.
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album, it is classified as a compilation, as it has the original album, plus bonus tracks.
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is not a box set because it was intended as a studio LP, despite it having four discs.
906:. The fact that the latter has more bonus material than the former doesn't change that.
572:
Actually, the source clearly does state that this is a reissue. Re-read the excerpts.
1387:
373:
283:
1341:
and stop reverting. It's better to try to establish a consensus through this RFC. -
254:
It is labeled as "An FZ Audio Documentary Project/Object", therefore relating it to
614:. It doesn't even use the word "reissue", neither does it imply that it is one. --
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are box sets, thus constituting new articles for being separate albums. Whereas,
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album. The remix is an altered version, and is treated as such. The reissues of
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is listed twice on the Zappa.com discography, but there's only one article. --
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In order to solve this dispute without edit warring (there is a case about it
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227:), let's discuss it on the talk page. Is "Greasy Love Songs" a reissue of
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is that one is a box set, this is a single disc reissue, but also that
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912:. The difference here lies purely in the way the release is marketed.
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is a reissue, show me where they use the word "reissue". I don't own
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collectors edition features the same kind of digipack packaging as
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article is about the song of the same name. Having an article for
925:. As I've mentioned before, I wouldn't object to merging it with
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albums. That doesn't mean we need to have a separate article for
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otherwise unavailable material and therefore a stand-alone album.
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318:, or any other reissue. This is a single disc release, whereas
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treating Zappa in a way that's "worse off" than anyone else.
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amounts to the same as having an article about the remixed
339:? See how fast it stays up before AfD comes down on it. --
184:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
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You gave us one excerpt. That excerpt merely states that
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Furthermore, let's end the "box set" debate right here:
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as a reissue. If no such source exists, the claim that
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is a reissue, not that it contains the original mix of
376:. That doesn't mean there aren't two separate releases.
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No, Allmusic didn't say (directly or indirectly) that
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is the first digital release of the original mix of
98:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
500:source exists identifying this as the vinyl mix of
132:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1189:can be classified as box sets, that doesn't mean
480:Er, Friginator, just because the Rykodisc CD of
731:sessions, despite the title. The argument that
534:Friginator asked for a source that states that
1286:Also, I quoted Allmusic directly saying that
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1214:Let's solve the box set argument right now.
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394:is freely available whereas the original
246:Arguments in favor of separate article:
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1367:if this is covered in reliable sources
895:is an archival release that shows how
682:An FZ Audio Documentary Project/Object
1294:. This is a reissue. End of story. --
542:. This is an important difference. --
7:
916:is marketed as an archival release,
754:Diary of a Madman (Archival Release)
174:This article is within the scope of
92:This article is within the scope of
1086:Wait, what? I directly stated that
977:is about the original album, which
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38:It is of interest to the following
1216:The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions
889:Cruising with Ruben & the Jets
717:The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions
436:The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions
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234:Arguments in favor of merging:
410:the original WOIIFTM, whereas
404:We're Only in It for the Money
316:We're Only in it for The Money
302:title, there should also be a
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292:was reissued under the title
106:and see a list of open tasks.
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87:Jazz portal
1388:Categories
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1243:Box sets:
1156:Friginator
900:used to be
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416:complement
186:discussion
30:Stub-class
971:Star Wars
379:accompli.
239:material.
927:Cruising
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420:Cruising
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332:SELLING
1315:Greasy
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1263:Läther
1237:Läther
1230:, yet
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353:Also,
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157:Albums
36:scale.
1363:short
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1375:talk
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1321:. --
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100:jazz
59:Jazz
1296:WTF
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