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786:(it's been this way for 18 years). Again, on a lighthearted note, I support keeping the current status quo of "grey" but otherwise using the same American spellings that are currently used in the rest of the article. Let this article be a shining example of multiculturalism or something – an international article for an international encyclopedia in a truly international language.
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Going off-topic a bit, I dunno if I object more to "British
English" as an apparent tautology, the ugliness of an -ish -ish construct, as an Englishwoman (and one of Scottish descent: they'll have a thing or two to say about speaking "British English"!) or a Northumbrian being presumed to speak RP or
497:
According to 2010's ngrams: In AE, gray is 3x as common. In BE, grey is 2x as common. In the whole-english corpus, gray is 30% more common. This may sound like both are acceptable, but the relative prevalence of 'color' in BE is higher than 'grey' in AE, and nobody would argue 'color' is "acceptable"
1488:
the problem with gr(a/e)y in ngrams, is the contribution of meanings unrelated to color. For example, Gray as a radiation dose would be thusly spelled in both AE/BE. Grey as a surname would be spelled thusly in both. It's hard to quantify the effect of those non-color terms on the ngram. However, I
1458:
points out, Google Ngrams would appear to suggest that "color" is an acceptable spelling in
British English: 2019 has "color" at 0.0026% and "colour" at 0.0046%. Meanwhile, we have "gray" at 0.0013% and "grey" at 0.0036%, an even larger discrepancy than "colo(u)r". When we can't trust the data, we
1128:
News to me. The only time I've ever seen it used is either in US publications or as a surname. Edit: I've checked just in case I really am that unobservant and spell-checkers will flag it as incorrect or at least non-standard; it's essentially never used in the UK and considered incorrect on the
934:
tbh I think that battle was lost long ago; even 15 years back, editors (including
Americans) were expressing concern about that tendency and it's only got worse since then. You'd think that after ~20 years a viable solution would've been found for the same argument that comes up in every other
672:
has no other edits in its edit history other than changing the spelling of this article. Someone objected, and the page was moved back to "Gray" (with "color" in the body) after 4 days of discussion. (For day counting purposes, please note that 2004 was a leap
1157:
Ugh, Google as a reliable source. Yikes. Though I am reminded of some e.g. tech publications where they're obliged to use US spellings even if they're from the UK (often to the irritation of authors and readers alike) the likes of which will skew results.
956:
per nomination, Shwcz, BarrelProof, Rreagan007 and
Paintspot Infez. An article written in British English should use British spelling in its main title header and an article written in American English should use an American
1581:
In the etymology section, please change "The first recorded use of grey as a color name in the
English language was in 800 CE." to "The first recorded use of grey as a color name in the English language was in 700 CE."
916:" is a breed of dog, not the same word as "grey"/"gray", and is not a simple compound descriptive term, as many Greyhounds are not grey. AFAIK, people in the United States (at least mostly) do not use "Grayhound". —
1608:
implementing this requires checking the listed source IMO. I can't find a copy online, but I do have access to a physical version. If someone else makes this decision before I do, please ping me here. --
935:
topic; that and
Knowledge's unique and bizarre habit of appropriating people's nationalities (it's irritating having to check someone's place of birth and background every time I read a bio here...) --
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can't imagine at all why BE has such a high prevalence of "color". That really makes me doubt the usefulness at all. I'll have to go through some of the sources to see the context of "color" in BE.
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658:
When making my comment, I had not realized there had been two or three previous RMs for this article, depending on how they are counted. The history and discussions are roughly summarized below:
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This is what
Knowledge considers the variant though. It's an interesting thing, the point where dialects end and languages start. The UK has far more of the former than the latter. Where
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1110:
That's just flatly untrue. "Grey" accounts for just 67% of UK usage while "gray" accounts for 75% of US usage. That is, "gray" is more popular in the UK than "grey" is in the USA.
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It is true that the word gray of canadian english is more correct by letter a than letter e as im grey for british dialect. I mean gray is reserved for north american dialect.
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Gray is the U.S. variant of spelling gray. If most countries that speak
English used "gray" then, yeah change it, however, most use "grey", so it is unnecessary to change it.
1680:
209:. According to Knowledge's Manual of Style guidelines and general consensus it should remain that way. Further debates on this matter serve little toward improving Knowledge.
1632:
Cool book! It definitely lists both "grey" and "gray" as having entered the
English language around 700 CE (my pointe being, there's no dispute in the source about this). --
664:(26 February – 1 March 2004): The page had used "Gray" when created (by a split on 17 June 2004 from an article that used American spelling) until an undiscussed move and
35:
679:(2–11 March 2004): Started immediately after closure of the first RM, putting forth a commonality argument, resulting in "Grey" (but using "color" rather than "colour").
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have to rely on our gut, and my gut tells me that "grey" is a relatively common variant in
American English but "gray" is relatively uncommon in British English. --
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above. "In AE, gray is 3x as common" (at least), while in BE, grey is only "2x as common". And, "in the whole-english corpus, gray is 30% more common."
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1585:(The date of first usage is different between the lede and etymology sections. Looking at past revisions, they used to both have the 700 CE date).
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common at all in American English. (Maybe Google's Ngram corpus says there is a 3× ratio, but in reality, it's a much higher number.) —
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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common at all in American English. (Maybe Google's Ngram corpus says there is a 3× ratio, but in reality, it's a much higher number.)"
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834:'s comment above. "It dosen’t make sense for the article to be in American English but for the title to be in British English."
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usage for reference. "Gray" is legitimately more of a commonality than "grey", so there's no reason for it not to match the
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
44:
1235:"British English" refers to any country where the majority of the English-speaking population spells the British way.
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841:'s comment above. "If the article is in American English, it should use "gray", not "grey". The "grey" spelling is
523:, as noted in the Commons discussion the spelling with the e seems to be acceptable in American English as well.
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This article uses American English, so the title should also be in American English to avoid confusing readers.
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It dosen’t make sense for the article to be in American English but for the title to be in British English.
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An article should not be edited or renamed simply to switch from one variety of English to another.
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on aesthetic grounds – I just like "grey" more *shrugs*. It matches well with its pronunciation of
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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No, "number of countries where this usage is slightly more common" is not how common name works.
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countries than just the USA and UK where significant percentages of the populace speak English
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are relegated to a mere dialect. I'm sure Ngrams doesn't pick up the subtleties of this.
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The english variant must not be changed without a valid reason and consistancy isn't
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to British English (both "grey" and "colour") on 17 February 2005 by an account that
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It's mostly written in American English, so let's go with the American spelling.
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that's a weird comment to make as the second person to comment on a move request
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However, the article text should be in the same variety of English as the title.
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than "gray". But the sources don't back that up; rather they show the opposite.
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Gray is only used in 1 english speaking country where as grey is used in several
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rare occasions it does appear, which certainly isn't ⅔rds of the time. --
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The proposer being a sock doesn't affect the merits of the RM, does it?
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Someone please close no consensus not moved, no relist, nom was a sock
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Please stop trying to make this into American English Knowledge. Also,
422:. There doesn’t seem to have an established variant for the article so
1263:. The list of English variants that Knowledge recognises is also on
1267:. Do you want to tell all those people they speak British English?
1678:. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
98:
1221:. It would be good to see some of these included in an analysis.
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Please stop trying to make this into American English Knowledge.
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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 29 § Dove gray
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That's not true; this move doesn't change the English variant.
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Talk:Grey/Archive 1#Requested Move: (There and back again...)
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On 22 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be
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Knowledge level-4 vital articles in Physical sciences
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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1739:C-Class vital articles in Physical sciences
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102:-related subjects on Knowledge. Help us
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1521:2404:8000:1027:85F6:40D9:1A4:1AF1:CBC9
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778:On a more serious note, oppose as per
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1406:Ngrams is not a silver bullet here.
683:Talk:Grey/Archive 1#Requested move 2
634:absence of consensus to the contrary
459:absence of consensus to the contrary
339:The result of the move request was:
201:) and it uses the variant spelling
49:It is of interest to the following
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760:by this? Does changing this help
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1506:The discussion above is closed.
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434:) 00:19, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
313:Requested move 22 December 2022
144:This article has been rated as
1729:C-Class level-4 vital articles
830:...for consistency, like with
347:closed by non-admin page mover
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1749:Top-importance color articles
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90:This article is supported by
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1575:to reactivate your request.
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1143:But Ngrams says so!!!
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953:
931:
885:— Preceding
868:
842:
837:...and, per
832:User:こもれびーさん
816:, like with
802:
747:
726:
711:
669:
632:there is an
629:
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595:Adumbrativus
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400:Adumbrativus
388:
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239:no consensus
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165:
145:
106:articles to
97:
91:
51:WikiProjects
34:
1197:WP:RETAINed
918:BarrelProof
692:BarrelProof
617:BarrelProof
441:– robertsky
382:Amogus girl
332:move review
180:written in
1708:Categories
1634:Pinchme123
1610:Pinchme123
1565:|answered=
1366:It is how
873:MOS:RETAIN
784:MOS:RETAIN
735:Rreagan007
638:MOS:RETAIN
500:MOS:RETAIN
463:MOS:RETAIN
424:MOS:RETAIN
1689:Steel1943
1667:Dove gray
1650:Dove gray
1491:Curran919
1462:King of ♥
1456:Curran919
1346:WP:RETAIN
1265:that page
969:contribs)
957:header. —
914:Greyhound
814:WP:RETAIN
731:WP:RETAIN
504:Curran919
467:blindlynx
270:Archive 1
39:is rated
1189:American
1047:NotOrrio
899:contribs
887:unsigned
758:confused
298:100 days
258:Archives
199:airplane
191:traveled
1284:Vometia
1258:EngvarB
1193:British
1181:Support
1160:Vometia
1131:Vometia
1098:Vometia
1034:Oppose-
954:Support
937:Vometia
812:...per
803:Support
727:Support
609:Support
577:こもれびーさん
571:Support
502:though.
495:neutral
416:Support
353:Sceptre
195:realize
148:on the
104:improve
41:C-class
1536:Summer
1448:Oppose
1421:Indeed
1348:works
1329:Oppose
1086:Oppose
984:O.N.R.
869:Oppose
792:(talk)
770:(talk)
753:/ɡreɪ/
748:Oppose
673:year.)
630:Oppose
517:Oppose
455:oppose
389:(talk)
47:scale.
1606:Note:
1569:|ans=
1559:This
1454:. As
1397:Slash
1357:Slash
1298:Scots
1244:Slash
1208:Slash
1119:Slash
1070:Slash
1018:Slash
965:(talk
850:etc.
788:oatco
766:oatco
713:Slash
670:still
556:Slash
483:Slash
428:Shwcz
227:moved
187:labor
121:Color
99:color
70:Color
28:This
1696:talk
1638:talk
1629:Done
1614:talk
1591:talk
1525:talk
1495:talk
1450:per
1429:talk
1412:talk
1386:THIS
1376:talk
1310:talk
1288:talk
1273:talk
1227:talk
1191:and
1164:talk
1149:talk
1135:talk
1102:talk
1094:gray
1090:grey
1051:talk
999:talk
941:talk
922:talk
895:talk
871:per
857:talk
782:and
739:talk
729:per
696:talk
690:—
646:talk
621:talk
599:talk
534:talk
519:per
508:talk
445:talk
432:talk
404:talk
373:Gray
368:Grey
358:talk
237:was
231:Gray
203:grey
110:and
108:good
1567:or
1391:Red
1351:Red
1238:Red
1202:Red
1113:Red
1064:Red
1012:Red
843:not
707:Red
636:so
613:not
550:Red
537:)
477:Red
461:so
229:to
140:Top
112:1.0
1710::
1698:)
1640:)
1616:)
1593:)
1573:no
1527:)
1497:)
1431:)
1423:.
1414:)
1378:)
1312:)
1290:)
1275:)
1261:}}
1255:{{
1229:)
1166:)
1158:--
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967:•
943:)
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897:•
875:.
741:)
698:)
648:)
623:)
601:)
510:)
447:)
406:)
376:–
370:→
360:)
324:.
197:,
193:,
189:,
1694:(
1648:"
1636:(
1612:(
1589:(
1523:(
1493:(
1477:♠
1472:♣
1467:♦
1427:(
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920:(
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893:(
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855:(
737:(
694:(
644:(
619:(
597:(
531:(
506:(
465:—
443:(
430:(
402:(
356:(
349:)
345:(
241:.
185:(
152:.
53::
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