Talk:Donald Trump/Archive 13

442:

references are more established news sources than the blog (but not the National Review), they are also frequently accused by conservatives of "liberal bias". I see no reason to remove references while citing the same source three times. Regarding your deletion of the Selective Service designations, you will note that there is a brief explanation before each is mentioned and no further explanation is required (IMHO "student deferment" and "medical deferment" are self explanatory). But we quibble about minor items. The main point and the point that I mentioned in my original post was that you have changed the tone of the section. The original section began (second sentence) with a quote from Trump which told only a small portion of the story and although true was misleading. Your edit has made this key point an afterthought. The section has two purposes. One is to present the facts of how Trump avoided the draft. The other is to present his response when asked how he avoided the draft.

4092:, why you are removing Trump's own statements on foreign policy. This page needs to record the man's positions. He objectively called for 20,000 to 30000 troops. Can you refute that? Did he deny that? It's public record, documented. Then you play the UNDUE card? What the heck? This is just Trump's position: some people like it, some don't. There's nothing UNDUE in reporting what he said about the Middle East. It doesn't make him look good or bad: it's a serious policy position and millions of people would agree with it. In any case, it isn't our job to agree or disagree, but to try to elaborate what his political positions are. I feel that you are making unreasonable edits here, as opposed to contributing. Instead of deleting, try fleshing out Mr. Trump's foreign policy. You keep speaking about "consensus" while going against it. -- 458:

original section began (second sentence) with a quote from Trump which told only a small portion of the story and although true was misleading. Your edit has made this key point an afterthought.". Maybe if you would be more specific and use quotes, I could understand better. You say that originally the section began with a true but misleading quote from Trump, but then you say it was a key point. How can a misleading quote be a key point? I have looked again at the diff I provided above, and I can't figure out what quote from Trump you're referring to. Can you please clarify? Is it the one where he says "I actually got lucky because I had a very high draft number"? I put that at the end because the high number was chronologically after the student deferments and the medical deferment.

474:

the draft chose to say something which was far from the whole story and for all practical purposes was untrue. He did not avoid the draft because of his high lottery number, he avoided it because of his student deferments and his medical disqualification. The high lottery number was just icing on the cake and came later. Even if he had received a low lottery number he was already disqualified. I suggest that since there have been no other editors weighing in on this that we revert to the original version of the text with the addition of your Wa Post and CBS news references (but without deleting the original references) since this was the result of inputs from multiple editors.

343:

selective service lottery number in 1969, he was not drafted earlier because of four student deferments (2-S) while attending college, and after receiving a medical deferment (1-Y, later converted to 4-F) obtained in 1968 after his college graduation, prior to the lottery being initiated. Trump was deemed fit for service after a military medical examination in 1966 and was briefly classified as 1-A by a local draft board shortly before his 1968 medical disqualification. Trump attributed his medical deferment to "heel spurs" in both feet, according to a 2015 biographer, but told an Iowa campaign audience he suffered from a spur in one foot, although he could not remember which one.

940:

mention of his vow to improve releations with Russia, China etc. And I still don't understand how Trump sometimes showing slight support for a fringe theory deserves a whole section on the main page. Also this sentence: "Trump proposed that "there has to be some sort of punishment" for women who have abortions after they were hypothetically outlawed." makes absolutely no sense and shouldn't even be there, as it doesn't relate to his actual policy on abortion, but he was talking about abortion laws in a hypothetical world, not, you know, the real world we're living in.

2168:. Their permission is not required, it is a public domain deal, you just need somebody who can find a copy of their signature and vectorize it, a skill I lack. Otherwise I'd do it. There is no issue with the application of this policy. No consensus policy exists which outright demands the uniform use of a file even if no file exists. So this isn't an issue of failure to include a signature, its a simple lack of files. Also I have no idea what you're talking about with "No WP guideline says it's OK to put multiple copies of a signature in an article.". 4600:". In the context of politicians and political candidates, there is a strong consensus in discussion after discussion that The "relevant to their public life or notability" clause should be interpreted as follows: Would this individual be notable for his/her religion if he/she were not notable for running for US president? Are we talking about someone who is notable for being religious, of someone who is notable who also happens to be religious? Trump does not meet this requirement. 4666:

defining. Often, users can become confused between the standards of notability, verifiability, and "definingness". Notability is the test that is used to determine if a topic should have its own article. This test, combined with the test of verifiability, is used to determine if particular information should be included in an article about a topic. Definingness is the test that is used to determine if a category should be created for a particular attribute of a topic. In general,

962:, first, thank you for adding the headers, that's a nice improvement. With that said, I find the section to be, in general, well laid out, easily readable, and very well sourced, (albeit there are some improvements that need to be made). It gives the reader a good introduction to many of his positions which is the purpose of the section (if the reader then wants more they are a click away from the main article). For example, near the top it discusses 31: 966:. It lets the reader know his views on Abortion, Medical marijuana, Gay marriage, Gun control, etc. I have no idea what you mean by "putting Hillary Clinton in a good light?" They are just facts, supported by sources. Trump is for Medical marijuana, against Recreational marijuana. He is Pro-life and would ban late term abortions (with exceptions). He is opposed to gun control in general. There is nothing "unneutral" about these facts. 3368: 4994:, I don't see why this is very controversial at all. BTW, whether this is truly an "ideological" position is another question, and sure, Hillary Clinton's article doesn't say anything like that--but she's a regular Democrat, as middle of the road as Barack Obama was. The better comparison is to Bernie Sanders's article, whose lead has him as progressive and as a democratic socialist. All sourced, of course. Anyway, see below. 3567: 833:

fixed favorable/unfavorable perception of Trump (or a mostly predetermined reception of his remarks) already (the well-known "silo effect"). Moreover, as your comment itself suggests, you have no idea whether the aggregate effect of the appearances has been positive or negative (or nil). For that matter, I think it would be hard to find any authoritative RS that would directly support such a claim at this time. --

5051:... need I go on). Indeed, it seems more common than not, and thus I believe that on this point alone, Trump's article should have a mention of his broad ideological position within the lede. Saying 'Republican' is not enough, but the American Republican Party is such a broad church, with many in the party being very openly hostile to Trump and his ideological positions; we need greater specifics. 1918:. There is no SVG file available for Johnson's signature. Were there one, and if one is provided, it should surely be added. Until then, it is fine for it to be absent if no such file exists. Additionally, your assertion that Gary Johnson is the 3rd most popular is preposterous. I would say President Obama is more popular than either Clinton or Trump, and don't forget Bernie Sanders, etc. 4976:

pointy. For the opening paragraph it's enough to write Republican. Ideological position would fit better in the paragraph that describes his political platform. I should note that not all political scientists agree that Trump is a populist, for instance Cas Mudde insists that he is not, but it's most probably a majority who will define him as a populist, and maybe that's a consensus view.

3437: 2286: 1982:'s. (You'd just need to get their consent.) Of the four US politicians nominated for national office, two have had a signature added to their WP page; meanwhile the election's less than six months away. At this point the (hypothesized) policy isn't getting applied uniformly, but no one seems to be worrying about it. 5010:

First, I did not believe that this edit would be controversial, so went straight ahead with inclusion without bringing it to Talk first; clearly, I was wrong about that. That being said, I still stand by the addition and urge its re-integration and continued inclusion. As for the claim that "It's not

4975:

inserted right wing populist to the first paragraph. I believe this is a contentious edit that per DS should be discussed at talk page first, and have asked MBO to self-revert. It's not standard to include ideological position to the opening paragraph (see Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama), and it seems

4313:

I'm not committed to alpha order for the sections, please note that I put "Real Estate" first. The previous version was in alpha order so I assumed that was intentional. I largely retained the previous ordering because it also made some sense to me: putting the section on real estates bankruptcies

1003:

Yes, that sentence seems to be completely taken out of context and might trick readers into thinking Trump actually wants to punish woman who have abortions, which is absolutely not true. I also don't think it's nesecairy to note that he has a New York concealed carry permit. Trump has also recentely

939:

This section right now is a mess. No subtitles, no clear constructing, 4 references for about every sentence. It's unreadable, and for some reason, very very negatively written Some things don't make any sense at all. For example, half of the "foreign policy" section is about Israel and Palestine? No

473:

Yes, it is the one "I actually got lucky because I had a very high draft number". It is misleading on the part of Trump and not on the part of the editor(s). It is a key point because it points out that Trump, when given the opportunity to tell the interviewer (from WWNY) to explain how he avoided

4525:

Previously, I asked for citations showing that this page meets Knowledge's requirements for listing religion in the infobox and in the list of categories and found that nobody had any citations supporting some of the requirements. I also did my own search and found nothing. There do not appear to be

3765:

a claim that was not supported by the source cited. The source says "...a 2002 interview with Howard Stern in which Trump said, 'Yeah, I guess so,' when asked whether he supported the invasion", which does not support the claim "In 2002 Trump supported the invasion of Iraq". A claim of support needs

441:

You are correct about the "The Corner" being a blog run by the National Review. Nevertheless, the inclusion of reporting by the National Review and/or its readers lends more credibility to the section than the references you have chosen to retain (Washington Post and CBS News). Although the latter

4674:

Note: this page has not been singled out. I asked for citations on all forty candidates (many now withdrawn) for the 2016 US presidential election, and have since moved on to other BLP articles with religion in the infoboxes. Show me the citations proving that Knowledge's requirements have been met

2841:

What are you talking about? The image is super high quality and there's absolutely zero blur. Trump actually smiling is not "unnatural." And in the current picture, his hair looks the same as his skin, that's what you call good color and lighting? I'd appreciate if you'd stop manipulating the truth

1512:

I restored "Friend", because his statements about his positions basically are his positions (plus any statement a politician makes about themselves is inherently self-serving). I also left in his actual comment about the Court ruling to provide context and balance. I think, since we have no history

4130:

Ahh--just followed your link to the USNews piece where he does indeed refute that 30000 troop statement. I stand corrected. However, I think it's important to point out that he proposed this and then rejected it. We are trying to create a record of his political positions. Trump's own attempts

2873:

You're literally talking about microdifferences in lighting and coloring. Have you noticed he looks like a damn Oompa Loompa in the current picture? His skin does not AT ALL look like that in real life. The saturation is ridiculous and the quality is horrible. You can't even zoom in on the picture

832:

Statistically, none of the appearances had any significant effect on Trump's reception (or perception) by the public. In each case the audience was less than 5% of the general public, with the exception of the video. And the video audience was self-selected; most of the viewers had likely formed a

770:

I have to agree with your point about whether the material is worth keeping. The article is about Trump himself - his history, his projects, and so forth - rather than about someone's shaping someone else's reception or perception of him. I don't think the article needs to include a compilation of

4928:

You have to be careful w/ "rules" -- they are mostly inflexible things; pushing "rules" leads inherently to misapplication. Recurring patterns of specific incidents can sometimes lead to pretty good rules; starting w/ rules then finding specifics to change or justify them, is a mistaken strategy.

719:

presentation. There's no flow or context to tie them together, in the form of well-written prose. For example: "On June 7, 2016, Meryl Streep dressed up as Trump." ← Why is this included in a biography at all? I can't imagine that this article will ever make it GA status with that type of dross.-

699:

article itself, there is a clear Reception section. For example, the term "Donald Drumpf" so viral that it surpassed both Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. In other example, the video had reached over 20 million views on Youtube. In fact, the article itself is considered a "Good Article" by the Knowledge

423:

in 1969." Knowledge considers CBS News to be a more reliable source than a blog post at National Review. Most readers of this Knowledge article will have no idea what 1Y, 2S, and 4S mean and those codes are unnecessary to convey the key information about Trump; if the codes are included then we

381:

Actually your diff shows nothing of the kind. If you will look at what you removed, it was a quote from the National Review; corner was merely part of the URL. As far as the statement about both feet, please reread the reference and note that that was not a statement by Trump but rather by some

361:

of the edit in question. It shows that I removed an unreliable source (blog post at "The Corner"); removed overly-technical and unnecessary language like 1Y, 2S, 4S; moved some stuff to a note that seems kind of vague and POINTy ("When asked in 2015 about his medical deferment due to heel spurs,

2966:

You are being incredibly rude to me, do you realise that? All I did was suggest a picture, and you're over here calling it "crappy" and claiming nobody has complained about the picture (which is a lie). Sorry that I don't think it's appropriate for some horrible picture of Donald with saturation

457:

I've read through your comment a few times to try and understand better. For now, I'd like to suggest we put aside the items about which you say "But we quibble about minor items." We can come back to them later. So, I am trying to figure out how best to address this part of your comment: "The

4665:

For example: "Subject is an adjective noun..." or "Subject, an adjective noun,...". If such examples are common, each of adjective and noun may be deemed to be "defining" for subject. If the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not

2858:

The lighting is better in the current one. It uses a key light and two fills in what looks like professional lighting probably for TV. The new one has fairly flat lighing, and has a low light shining up at his face, which tends to accentuate wrinkles and jowls. It also has some motion blur that

951:) 16:35, 15 June and often seems to put Hillary Clinton in a good light? It seems very unneutral, actually. Also, the "muslim ban" section is completely outdated, as he just did an immigration speech where he said he wouldn't actually ban Muslims, but people from countries with terrorist links. 342:

Trump was eligible for the draft lottery during the Vietnam War. "I actually got lucky because I had a very high draft number." he told WNYW in 2011. Selective Service records retrieved by The Smoking Gun website from the National Archives show that, although Trump did eventually receive a high

3506:

Compared to the present top image, this one has a smile instead of a frown, and not merely a tight-lipped smile, but a full smile with teeth. Moreover, unlike the lighting of the present top image, the neck is well-lit (the darkly shadowed neck in the present top image gives the impression of

335:

The edit should hardly be characterized in this way. It was a major rewrite, involved removing two original sources (WNYW and "The Smoking Gun). This rewrite changed the tone of the section and attempts to "whitewash" Trump's inaccurate statements to the press. Those inaccuracies were well

4883:

campaigning on an explicitly theocratic platform, but not for a generally secular politician like Trump, who is about a much a religious figure as I am a space alien military commander. (Which reminds me, If I don't see more groveling and surrender, I will vaporize your puny moon, Hoomans.)

4814:

Surely doesn't seem to meet the requirements to me. His own church said he wasn't an active member. I can't think of any sources where he talked about religion prior to his candidacy. He is not a major figure, if a figure at all, in this religion. It is simply not a defining characteristic.

3507:

someone wearing a Trump mask). The microphone is larger in the present top image, and the head is cockeyed instead of straight. Unlike the image at right, the present top image has bags under eyes, as if the subject did not get enough sleep, and the shirt collar is partly darkly shadowed.

3009:

I never "claimed" no one at all complained about the photo in the past. I said if it lasted this long, there were not a whole lot of complaints about it in the first place. A new photo has been discussed many times before, it doesn't mean people were complaining about the current photo.

714:

I'm not questioning the popularity of some of the pop culture references; only there relevance in as serious biography of Trump's life. By 'bare listing', I mean that each paragraph stands in isolation to the other paragraphs, as if they were bullet points on a forgotten page of a

1650:

Friend to Hispanics is fine so long as we use proper weight, for example, "Trump has been accused to racist comments towards Hispanices, but he says he is their friend." We do that with even when the subject is clearly not telling the truth. BTW, one of Trump's best friends,

1606:

All public statements by a politician are meaningless posturing. Unfortunately, since Trump is only recently a politician, we don't have a voting record to cite. The best we can do is summarize his statements and summarize analyses of his statements because that's all we have.

4561:

Inclusion is permitted in derived, more specific infoboxes that genuinely need it for all cases, such as one for religious leaders." Please note that if nobody has bothered to mention religion in the body of the article, that is strong evidence that the subject's beliefs are

4647:

define in prose, as opposed to a tabular or list form the subject as having -- such as nationality or notable profession (in the case of people), type of location or region (in the case of places), etc. (Emphasis is in original) Trump doesn't even come close to meeting this

3774:{{cite magazine |url=http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-fact-check-20160622-snap-htmlstory.html |title=How Donald Trump's speech attacking Hillary Clinton compares with the facts |last=Bierman |first=Noah |work=] |date=June 23, 2016 |accessdate=}}</ref: --> 2932:

Another lie! Can you please take a look in the archives of talk? There have been so many discussions on changing the image in the past few months. And you literally just described a natural smile, and if you don't Trump smiling naturally in a picture, that's ridiculous.

1292:. "There has been a national background check system in place since 1998 ... Too many states are failing to put criminal and mental health records into the system ... What we need to do is fix the system we have and make it work as intended." Retrieved: October 21, 2015. 382:

unnamed person from his campaign staff. You will also note that the CBS news reference quotes the Smoking Gun as the original source. 1Y, 2S and 4F (the latter in particular) are not overly technical and have a special meaning to those who lived through the era.

1513:

of policymaking in this area, leaving it to his own words (though they can be contradictory) is the best way to keep NPOV. Hopefully this is an acceptable compromise. If anyone can find an RS offering third-party analysis of his stance that might be relevant too.

4878:

This should be removed from the infobox, per the site-wide RfC. It's permissible to add this parameter to infoboxes for religious leaders, like Roman Catholic cardinals or the Dalai Lama, not for random politicians. It might be permissible for a politician like

4314:

after the section on real estate and putting the sections on Taxes and Net Worth toward the end. Since Trump University has been in the new recently, it made some sense to me for it to be at the end, but perhaps it should be moved up with the other businesses.

4841:

it clearly should not be in in the infobox. His religion is well covered in the article text. We really need to move forward on removing the religion field from the template itself, per the RFC result. It's wasteful to rehash this on countless bio pages.

4621:" In other words, if someone running for US president has never publicly stated on the record that they belong to a religion, we don't take the word of even reliable sources on what their religion is. Trump meets this requirement, having self-identified. 3058:

BTW, you should not be talking about manners. You came off as very aggressive in your first few posts calling your suggestion "superior" and peoples reasons against it "ridiculous" because the current photo looked like a "damn Oompa Loompa", so save it.

3092:

I like how suddenly your accepting to other peoples opinions when that wasn't the case in your earlier posts. You were giving more than just your opinion by accusing others of "manipulating the truth" because they liked the current picture better. You

2917:

That is not a natural smile. He looks more distracting which ironically makes is less "neutral". Where did this idea come from that not smiling makes it not neutral? The current photo has been used for months and no one has really complained about it.

3769:

It's a good reference though, and would be a nice addition to the article if we use it to support claims that are actually in the reference. Here is the ref ready to cut and paste (be sure to add an accessdate) if someone wishes to use it correctly:

3097:

seem angry that people disagreed with your photo, which is why I said what I said. Anyway, it looks like the consensus is to stick with the current photo. I have no problem with Trump smiling, but this photo is not a good example of a good smile.

2726:

The current lead photo is from 2015. Could we use this new recent photo from June 28, 2016 of Trump at a rally in Phoenix? It fits with his current political image and he doesn't look so orange/pissed off like in the other image from August 2015.

3388:

That's better than the one a couple sections up, but it still looks kind of screwy to me. If I recall, the temperature that day was an extremely rare 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Even if the rally was indoors, he looks like he just walked out of an

122:

I could nominate it, but there's still quite a lot of work to do on obvious stuff (like formatting the footnotes), and although I've fixed up many of the sections recently, I still haven't checked the politics section. Can we wait awhile more?

2888:

He looks even worse in the picture you suggested. What kind of expression is that? The current photo has a more natural expression. Why do people make such a big deal over a "smile"? Just because he isn't smiling doesn't mean he is pissed off.

5011:

standard to include ideological position to the opening paragraph", that is easily disputed. The articles on Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are cited, but I can just as easily point to a whole range of articles on political biographies that

265:

I could find on the RSN seems to indicate that it would not be a reliable source, particularly for BLP's. It's an opinion based publication and its masthead includes titles like "Scummy". I also note that it's not used at all as a source at

424:

would have to explain what they mean (which you didn't do), and so the whole paragraph would become too long. You're correct that the statement about "both feet" is attributed to his campaign instead of him personally, so I have fixed that.

4131:

to, perhaps, feel out a Middle East foreign policy are important. Honestly, if a person is trying to understand, or make an informed decision about the election, they need to know a candidate's views, even if those views are changing. --

2947:

Give me a break. Yes, it was discussed before and the current photo was still left alone. I guarantee you no one smiles like that when they get their photo taken. You are just mad because no one likes your crappy photo suggestion. Again,

639:

The reason why these appearances are important for Trump is because it helped shape his public reception both positively and negatively. For example, on his appearance on Last Week Tonight, several people referred to Trump as Drumpf.

2812:

Why would it look more like him, because he's not smiling? And I think this picture is equally well-lit. It's been 11 months since that event, and he was still 69 years old in the old picture. I really think it's time for a change.

4661:; i.e., the characteristics the person is best known for. For example, a film actor who holds a law degree should be categorized as a film actor, but not as a lawyer unless his or her legal career was notable in its own right 175:

I'm more concerned about the near-constant updates that seem to keep coming and coming. Articles need to settle down without so many changes to pass FAC or GAN (except of course for edits made in accordance with reviews).

4412:

Here on WP we only ever go with what religion people call themselves. The article does a reasonable job of explaining the nuance. We have to take it in a binary fashion - either one is Presbyterian or one is not. Trump

4393:

Trump's supposed Christianity is not a defining characteristic of him as a public person--not even of him as a candidate for the presidency. That he calls himself Christian is, but that's not easily said in an infobox.

3796:

has an analysis of what Trump said and when. The short version is this: Zero evidence that Trump supported or opposed the Iraq war before the March 19, 2003 invasion, plenty of evidence that he opposed it starting in

666:

This tells the reader that someone publicly satirized Trump. Really? How unusual. Where is the analysis of how it has this shaped "his public reception both positively and negatively" (do you mean shaped the public's

3073:

And I'm being rude to whom? Just stating my opinion, I really do think he looks like ridiculously orange in that picture, and he doesn't look like that at all in real life, despite what the media tries to push.

4258:(C) Some sections of the Mitt Romney and Bill Gates articles seem rather similar to this section. Neither uses any kind of mixed alphabetic/nonalphabetic style; yet both are easy to navigate. See, for example, 4657:: "Biographical articles should be categorized by defining characteristics. As a rule of thumb for main biographies this includes: standard biographical details: year of birth, year of death and nationality 2487:

There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative "I heard it somewhere" pseudo information is to be tagged with a "needs a cite" tag. Wrong. It should be removed,

700:

community. Furthermore, how are each of these pop culture references "Bare Listings"? These are full of citations from all over the news spectrum. Even his appearance on Comedy Central had these citations.

4484:

We should leave it out. Trump's mother was from Scotland and Trump was baptised presbyterian. But there is no evidence he identifies with the church. What has he said about Calvinist predestination?

4203:

I've put Real estate first since that's how he got his start, but otherwise kept the alpha order of the sections. I don't plan to remove any content if we make this change, unless otherwise noted. Any

3805: 2706:

Someone fixed that. There is another mention of Wharton in the Early Life section that said "Wharton School of Business." I changed that to use the official name of the school at the time he attended.

3721:

they are clearly the same image with the mic removed, also if you look at the eyes in the photoshop job we can actually see the black ovals that have been added. It definitely should not be used.

884:

in the "See also section". This has less to do with Donald Trump itself and more so the 2016 election. In fact, it is already listed in the "Violence and expulsions at rallies" section within the

1500:"friend" of the LGBT community," is not a political position—it's nothing more than campaign fodder on the heels of a massacre. Also, we can't sanitize his stated position on same sex marriage.- 2164:

Your fixation on this perplexes me. There is no file for either Johnson or Stein's signatures in the commons, therefore it is impossible to include those candidates' signatures in the infobox

1771:

The "Trump has stated that he supports "traditional marriage." part is duplicated verbatim in that paragraph's first sentence, but the rest is relevant and I have no objection to restoring it.

1130: 4526:

sources establishing compliance with the rules for inclusion, so I have removed the religion entry and categories. Editors are encouraged to add properly sourced religion information to the

661:"On February 28, 2016, Trump was the subject of a segment of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver that was named after him. The segment, hosted by comedian John Oliver, was critical of Trump." 2415:

Also, two of the parameters in the Trump Text Logo file § Summary call false information (rather, unsourced pseudo-information), so the file's likely to get "aggressively deleted" soon per

4753:

And you just reverted without providing the sources I requested. Do you imagine that just because I asked for sources on other pages that you don't have to provide any on this one? --

1486:

The text says, "described himself as a "friend" of the LGBT community," not that he is one. Seems alright to me. Factchecking what Trump says is beyond the scope of the article.

1999:

I reverted those edits because they broke years and years worth of consensus, a consensus which was just recently challenged with no success on this very page only a month ago.

307: 780:

A few authoritative book reviews would be helpful to the reader - and eminently encyclopedic. As for the items listed above, you may want to call them "ephemera" rather than "

233:

Even if it fails to become a "good article" because of alleged instability, merely going through the process can improve the article quite a bit. We're not there yet, though.

531:

In regards to "Trump: What's the Deal", it is understandable since it is a 90s documentary that received little coverage until recently, but even now it is only covered in

1091: 137:

Even without citation concerns, I guarantee this would fail for stability alone if nominated anytime soon. At least wait until the election is over before taking to GAN.

2443:

The Trump_Text_Logo.svg file has some erroneously sourced false information in the filedesc. I've yet to find a source that supports the description call or author call.

1099: 671:?). There is an abundance of biographical content that we could include about Trump, but the only pop culture content that should be included is that which actually has 4251:, the usual practice is to order the sections based on precedent. Namely, on the precedent of some article that seems similar to the subject article. But no article of 3919:

You just restored material that I deleted as being unsourced. The burden of proof is on you to provide a source, not on me. Also, in the section directly above this, I

4730:

Guy, it looks like you're just copying and pasting comments you made elsewhere. You haven't answered my question and it's not even clear that you've read this article.

3806:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/21/donald-trumps-baseless-claim-that-the-bush-white-house-tried-to-silence-his-iraq-war-opposition-in-2003/

2678: 2669: 1071: 4767:

Actually, since the current overwhelming consensus is to include religion in the infobox on this page, the onus is on you to provide evidence that it should not be.

3289: 4163:

I think the organization of the business related sections is kind of a mess. I'd like to restructure the current sections 2-4 (in looking at the ToC) as follows:

3810: 3710: 1343: 3815: 1193: 2981:

The current top picture is not very good, and I think lots of editors would support a better picture, but I don't think this particular proposed picture is it.

1034:

Please provide the text you propose (with the sources) in regards to his support of the LGBT community. I gotta run right now but I'll check back in later. --

943:

So can I please divide the political positions up so that it's actually readable, update the immigration policy section and shorten it + make it more neutral.

3342:

And it's pretty goofy anyhow. What assassin arrives without a weapon with the idea of finding one at the scene? It might make sense to wait for more details.

4340:, so it should be discussed here. It is present in the article, and well-sourced, and is a notable aspect of Trump's public image. The article should be in 3492:

There were many photos to vote on and no one was told to oppose expressly the ones they did not favor. I'm not sure why you think this photo is so great.--

2070:...The idea is, there has never been conflict with use of SVG copies of a signature before, and the practice is many years old and has massive consensus... 4838: 4576: 4546: 1784:

Yes, of course that part should go, but not the rest of it and several sources. His moderate stance on LGBT issues appropriately summarizes his position.-

4541:

As a reminder, here are the requirements for listing a religion in the infobox and categories (religion in the body of the article has different rules):

3297: 3225:(notice the background) all while making other serious alterations to the photo. Seriously, who does this? ThiefOfBagdad needs to be blocked on commons. 3688:

Although Gage is a talented photographer, this is not a good shot. There is still alot of time left in this election season to get a good smiling photo

2142:

The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points ... in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article.

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Finally, in regards to the controversial segment on Last Week Tonight, it received coverage on major news sources, and not just on Entertainment sites:

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I just did. It doesn't meet the requirements in the Knowledge policies and guidelines I listed above. Do you have any sources showing that it does? --

3521:

But his eyes are almost closed, his head is slanted somewhat, and he doesn't look like he's smiling. It looks like he's in pain or in mid-sentence.--

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The following sentence appears verbatim in the previous para as well: Some political analysts describe Trump as a "moderate" regarding LGBT rights.

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In context, you appear to be suggesting that it's WP policy to include a signature in an infobox whether or not it's included elsewhere in the lead.

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documented in the original and contributed by several editors with footnotes. Anythingyouwant has provided no reasoning for his major edit.

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it is much easier to verifiably demonstrate that a particular characteristic is notable than to prove that it is a defining characteristic.

362:

Trump told reporters that he could not immediately remember which foot, but later that day he said both feet"); cited CBS News instead of

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article. There were citations showing that Knowledge's requirements were met and so I supported inclusion of religion in the infobox. --

1004:

came out, after the Orlando shooting, as, frankly, a major ally of the LGBT community, and I think it would be fair to add that too. --

3140:

OMFG, this photo is bizarre! It is so unrecognizable and odd that it's hard to believe that it wasn't 'shopped to make Trump look like

1878:

I've previously said that it looks silly to have two identical huge signatures. And it's still silly. So good luck erasing one of them.

2203:

There were two copies of a subject's signature in an article lead. I removed the first, supposedly "to make the infobox more concise."

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a defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose, the subject as having.

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The text font in the campaign logo used by Donald J. Trump for President Inc. is Franklin Gothic, whereas the text font in the logo

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One editor (CFredkin) reverted my removal of the unsourced claim without responding to the above (see the section after this one)

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I like the current photo better. It's lit better, I think it looks more like him, and he seems thoughtful to me, not pissed off.

1857:

has no signature yet, and because he's the third most popular politician in the US at this time, such practice or policy doesn't

1075: 696: 524: 3198:, especially really bad ones. How can people think it's ok to drastically alter a photo and pass it up as genuine is beyond me. 4341: 3811:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/06/donald-trump/donald-trump-overstates-his-early-opposition-iraq-/

1943:, nor do I. And Sanders is such a loser he couldn't even beat Clinton!!! So now he's back to being the most popular politician 588: 3403:"Screwy" is probably the adjective I would use as well. It just really isn't very recognizable as Trump. It almost looks like 2903:

Trump smiling is not "unnatural", what is this image that you are creating him out to be? How about being a bit more neutral?

1458:

Hm, yeah, maybe not a major ally it seems actually, but at least a supporter of the community following the Orlando attack. --

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request. I agree that we ought to leave well enough alone (till after the election, perhaps). Many thanks for the pointers. --

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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/02/21/trump_responds_to_howard_stern_interview_who_knows_what_was_in_my_head.html

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said is "I'm a Protestant, I'm a Presbyterian. And you know I've had a good relationship with the church over the years..."

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Presbyterian. So the question is, is it important? I would say that it is, as evidenced by the references in the article.

3593:

Someone moved it below yours. Color and lighting are perfect and the subject has a very natural and neutral expression.--

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longstanding content which appropriately defines Trumps stated position (certainly a lot better than the "I'm a friend of

1715:

And Roy Cohn denied it. You can say he claims to be a friend to the LGBT community. But, there is no evidence that he is.

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signature, then it is acceptable to place it on their WP article... The signature has been up for many years... <: -->

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Sorry, my reversion of your edit was unintentional. I've restored the original content with the exception of your edit.

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Meaning: The WP guideline says it's OK to put Trump's signature in the article. And it's been in the article for years.

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to be in use at this time; for convenience, however, we can leave the templates as is and edit the infoboxes instead. --

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I find no problems in the previous version (quoted below) and although harder on Trump, it is much closer to the truth:

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templates include a logo parameter. So I'm starting to wonder whether a BLP should include a business logo in the lead.

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Of course. But you miss my point: When you crop like that, the reader cannot know or surmise that that is the reason.

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In context, I appear to be suggesting that the infobox should be made more concise to make the lead more concise (per

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The image is blurry, the color and lighting are bad, and his expression is unnatural. The current image is better.--

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article, there's a subsection titled "White House renovations; assassination attempt" and a separate article titled

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There would be a case for it, at least, since it was widely reported. Not worth more than a brief mention, however.

985:

regarding abortion; this level of detail belongs in the main article. Do you agree with removing that sentence? --

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Meaning: The signature (singular) has been in the article for years, enjoys consensus, and doesn't violate WP:BLP.

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is a more recent view. I'm restoring the previous, long-standing language, which reflects the situation concisely.

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The Trump Series template may confuse some readers insofar as it blurs the distinctions between the logos used by

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relevant to their public life or notability. Huckabee and Carson meet this requirement. Trump and Clinton do not.

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that we had in March. The photo at right was opposed by only one editor, and supported by two, as the top image.

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This is being discussed at the talk page for the navbox, so let's please keep the discussion in one place, there.

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Although Trump has stated that he supports "traditional marriage," he has described himself as a "friend" of the

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either through direct speech or through actions like serving in an official clerical position for the religion.

4596:, according to reliable published sources" ... "These principles apply equally to lists, navigation templates, 4499:

He doesn't have to say anything about predestination. Lots of Presbyterians don't think about it much. What he

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more than a single "I guess so" in one interview, especially considering the nature of the Stern radio show.

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Recently, several details regarding Trump were removed. These included Handros' "Trump: What's the Deal", the

419:." But we already have a solid source for that, and I cite CBS for the statement "eventually received a high 332:

User:Anythingyouwant extensively modified this section with the explanation: reorganize Vietnam stuff a bit

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May I suggest that we simply remove the signature from the navbox for this page only, as I recently did at

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/09/business/media/trump-segment-on-john-oliver-show-explodes-on-youtube.html

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p.s. I think ""Candidate Ken" doll for Barbie" has got real legs (although, admittedly, they are plastic).

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if he isn't smiling. Many Trump supporters on here have said they have no problem with the current photo.

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The way I see it, one copy looks twice as concise as two. I think most readers would see it that way. --

578: 303: 3992:, which has been restored again, is not consistent with Trump's most recent statement on the subject. 3478:

In case anyone is unaware, William S. Saturn was the one editor who opposed this as the top image. :-)

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Absolute garbage! I just figured out this picture was made by taking the face of Trump in this photo,

1564:

He also says he is a friend to Hispanics, they love him and he will get their vote. It's meaningless.

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Once again, please do not restore the disputed content unless/until there is consensus to do so, per

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This article was last reviewed for GA nine years ago ... when it had a total of 17 sources listed. --

622:

Also, in my research, Trump was again featured on later segments on the John Oliver show such as in:

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This is the first time I've heard of an event like this. Does it deserve mention in the article?

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There are several instances of the Daily Beast being used to source content in this article. The

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Eyes are squinted, it is no smile it's mid-speech, looks like a "Candidate Ken" doll for Barbie.

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Why do you keep pushing this horrible photo? It's even worse than the one originally proposed.--

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Wow. Another shady part-time sleeper account gets their say. Awesome. Let's keep it real, folks.

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Red herring. If you cut out every bit where he isn't consistent there will be soon a blank page.

3917:"the burden of proof is on those who wish to retain, restore, or undelete the disputed material" 2050:. A single person cannot overturn that by claiming that it's suddenly recognized as contentious 4054:

That's not what I'm suggesting. The existing content notes his changing stance on the subject.

3090:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Donald_Trump&diff=726213606&oldid=726213329

2967:

turned 20x looking more orange than an oompa loompa to be the main picture. It's ridiculous. --

1358:

Donald Trump just made some of the most pro-LGBT remarks we've seen from a Republican candidate

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In order to move forward with this discussion we need to get into specifics and work together,

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should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief in question

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kind has been cited (or found) as precedent for using a mixed alphabetic/nonalphabetic style.

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http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/02/politics/donald-trump-obama-white-house-correspondents-dinner/

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website; et cetera. I am busy right this second, but hope that other editors will chime in.

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The text logo only occurs in the navbox, as far as I can tell, so I favor leaving it as-is.

2106:• The use of multiple copies of the signature has indeterminate consensus or no consensus. 2046:...The signature has been in the article for nearly 6 1/2 years and obviously enjoys tacit 5048: 5024: 4847: 4606: 3890: 3293: 3230: 3203: 3103: 3064: 3043: 3015: 2957: 2923: 2894: 2347: 2238: 1958: 1835: 1086:

except in cases of rape, incest, or health. He is in favor of cutting federal funding for

977:. It makes the most sense to follow the natural order of the section so let's start with 532: 363: 267: 4914:

I personally welcome the enlightened rule of SMcCandlish and the other space aliens... --

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just because you like some other picture better. The new picture is definitely superior.

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so that criminal and mental health records are always put into the system. Trump opposes

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the inclusion of this trivial fluff. Spin it off into a sub-article that will suck more.

3170:

It turns out this photo was significantly altered from the original, which can be found

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/nyregion/after-roasting-trump-reacts-in-character.html

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there has to be flow according to context and meaning, rather than, of all things, the

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the previous long-standing language in this section. I believe the recent edits were

3758:"In 2002 Trump supported the invasion of Iraq" claim not supported by the source cited 3566: 1834:

To make the infoboxes more concise, I'm removing the redundant signatures here and at

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You literally said "no one has really complained about it." Just stop lying already.

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characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that

4577:

Knowledge:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126#RfC: Religion in biographical infoboxes

4547:

Knowledge:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126#RfC: Religion in biographical infoboxes

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It looks great and it's a lot more recent than the current 2015 photo. Thoughts? --

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Vietnam war section -- major rewrite -- 31 May 2016 edit by User:Anythingyouwant

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/gageskidmore/27762971255/in/album-72157669951315605/

4557:. Inclusion is permitted in individual articles' infoboxes as a custom parameter 4995: 4531: 4437: 4395: 4259: 3285: 2128:

nutshell: There is no consensus to reproduce signatures in Knowledge articles...

1896:'s redundant signature too (thereby avoiding any suggestion of partisanship). -- 1850: 1095: 629:

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-oliver-trump-university-investigation-2016-6

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

4588:: "Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) should not be used 2562: 658:

are not encyclopedic and not good writing. For example, the content I removed:

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No one has ever complained about it like you have. Stop being a damn crybaby!

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http://www.straitstimes.com/tech/trumped-up-surname-and-strains-of-pasta-mania

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I prefered the microphone. I'll take your word about looking into the eyes.

3711:

Talk:United States presidential election, 2016#New Gage photo as Trump photo?

1444:

I haven't seen any evidence that he is a "major ally of the LGBT community".

777:

has to relate to Trump himself (or to his published works and such) directly.

2367: 270:. I believe it should be removed as a source from this article. Thoughts?? 1950:

But you're correct about Obama. I should have said, the third most popular

411:. You used that as a source for the statement "Trump was eligible for the 5015:

contain a mention of the individual's ideological commitment in the lede (

4549:: "the 'religion=' parameter and the associated 'denomination=' parameter 2086:...According to WP guidelines, if ... a secondary source has re-published 4594:

and the subject's beliefs are relevant to their public life or notability

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True, it's only in the navbox. But the navbox is in the lead section, so

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all series templates for US politicians include a signature if available.

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Someone added "religion=Presbyterian" to the infobox, but that edit got

2453:("Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information"). -- 584:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html

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is a reliable source, but probably not among the best. It's won awards,

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article titled "Assassination attempts", and a separate article titled

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704399804576192982669539582

4579:, nor can it override any of the policies and guidelines in this list. 3284:

I agree with FreeKnowledgeCreator. There's a whole subsection in the

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No wonder it looked like he had two ears on one side! There should be

1265:"Trump Discloses Concealed Carry Permit in Defending Second Amendment" 161:

We'll see how it goes. I don't see edit-warring. I see improvements.

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Disputed change to opening paragraph - inserting ideological position

3923:

seek consensus. You failed to respond, choosing instead to revert. --

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Yes you can remove it, it's already listed in it's relevant location.

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http://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/obama-trumps-adversaries-054016

2215:

It is VERY long-standing policy to include signatures in the infobox

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Protecting our Second Amendment rights will make America great again

1031:

I would be fine with removing the "New York concealed carry permit".

825:

It helped shape his public reception both positively and negatively.

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http://time.com/4240734/john-oliver-donald-trump-last-week-tonight/

4630:: "A central concept used in categorising articles is that of the 3607:

He looks possessed/demonic. (And why is his tie defying gravity?)

3565: 3435: 3300:. So, it's not necessarily inappropriate to mention at Knowledge. 404: 4463:

was "Overwhelming consensus to identify him as a Presbyterian ".

4372:

the listing requirements - which one(s) do you think this fails?

3219:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Donald_Trump_(27150701414).jpg

3144:. In no way should this photo be used in any Knowledge article.- 2995:

I understand. Thanks man, at least somebody with manners here. --

4670:

Again, Trump doesn't even come close to meeting the requirement.

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is the edit I was referring to at the beginning of this section.

3821:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/media/donald-trump-howard-stern/

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applies. We cannot use terms such as attempted assassination.

2109:• All but one of the multiple copies is contentious content per 1301:

February 27, 2015. (Excerpt from Donald Trump Remarks at CPAC).

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http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/

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Anyone know why his alma mater isn't showing up in the infobox?

2370:(both of whom appear to have signed their articles twice...) -- 981:. I would be fine with removing the sentence that talks about 3689: 2659: 2257:

template is/was useful. But regardless, it's a job well done.

1176:"Donald Trump is a moderate. That doesn't mean what you think" 25: 1243:"Trump: I would shut down government over Planned Parenthood" 820:- You made a claim about Trump's appearances (in aggregate): 3535:

I didn't say it was perfect, only better, like the image at

2479:

I believe Mr. Wales might be inclined to disparage that as "

1403:"Angered by Attack, Trump Urges Return Of the Death Penalty" 3709:: ThiefofBagdad has also attempted to propose this move at 2254: 2223:

If so, can you tell me which WP policy you have in mind? --

568:

in 2011, it has received coverage both in 2011 and in 2016.

935:

Can I please clear up Trump's political positions section?

611:

http://time.com/4277790/john-oliver-donald-drumpf-records/

2859:

blends the hair in with the face in an unflattering way.

4690:

Guy objects to every religion, except Pastafarianism.--

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Hard to believe the photo suggestion is in good-faith.

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I think this is the page section you're talking about,

1752: 1194:"Trump vows to put abortion exceptions in GOP platform" 1158:"Is Donald Trump 2016's most LGBT-friendly Republican?" 1027: 358: 4839:

Village Pump Policy consensus on Religion in infoboxes

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please seek consensus here before restoring the edits.

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I don't think readers will be confused, even slightly.

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Meaning: What has consensus is the use of SVG copies.

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Description call: "Used on Trump's personal website"

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I guess I can live with that, somewhat grudgingly.-

2762: 2732: 983:"there has to be some sort of punishment" for women 311:, and they have taken responsibility for mistakes: 2210:, lead section as a "concise version" of article). 1133:, and through full-page ads he purchased favoring 1125:nationwide. Trump has demonstrated his support of 4559:only if directly tied to the person's notability. 4436:Knowledge is a lot simpler than real life, then. 4249:MOS:BODY (names and orders for section headings) 3589:Since we're posting our favorite Trump photos. 1117:and shown uninterest in reversing the June 2015 1026:I've removed the abortion "punishment" material 4590:unless the subject has publicly self-identified 3421:The photo is so bad it doesn't even look real. 3290:Gerald Ford assassination attempt in Sacramento 1759:" statements). I request that it be restored.- 1221:"Political Leaders: Donald Trump On the issues" 3845:For those who like to hear things in context: 2691:There's no such thing as "Wharton University". 1070:Some political analysts describe Trump as a " 3855:Trump commenting on Howard Stern show quote: 3221:and pasting it on to the face of this photo, 1215: 1213: 8: 4592:with the belief or orientation in question, 934: 3857:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQIXpZhukQo 3850:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77P6fxa2KOs 2445:So, the file itself is getting removed per 752:Why is this included in a biography at all? 3298:Attempted assassination of Harry S. Truman 2729: 656:bare listings of pop culture "appearances" 4659:the reason(s) for the person's notability 3773:<ref name="Noah Bierman LA Times": --> 2740: 2354:seem to be doing fine without one, as do 1892:Indeed you did. So I might as well erase 1129:both through his campaign speeches about 1078:and abortion. Trump describes himself as 407:) and the link to it (that I removed) is 4675:and I will gladly change my position. -- 886:Donald Trump presidential campaign, 2016 2451:Wales posting to WikiEN-l, May 16, 2016 1342:was invoked but never defined (see the 1149: 1377:"Trump: Death penalty for cop killers" 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3852:(qoute starts at 1 minute 30 seconds) 1375:Diamond, Jeremy (December 11, 2015). 7: 4950:looks mighty authoritative to me! -- 4708:Not true. Look, for example, at the 3539:. How about if we let others opine? 1830:Removing redundant infobox signature 1121:Supreme Court ruling that legalized 3174:. I'm nominating it for deletion.- 2405:ought to apply, wouldn't you think? 1334: 1098:in general. He supports fixing the 1060:This would be better in my opinion: 787:Technically, material that doesn't 544:However, for his appearance in the 403:, "The Corner" is a blog they run ( 2545:Donald J. Trump for President Inc. 2467:The Trump_Text_Logo filedesc says: 1974:Johnson's signature is available, 888:page. Do you mind if I remove it? 566:White House Correspondents' Dinner 521:White House Correspondents' Dinner 299:have been indeterminate (example: 24: 2346:: Can we lose the text logo too? 1965:just got reverted. <snark: --> 1325:. Fox News Channel. July 5, 2015. 1104:legalizing recreational marijuana 4551:should be removed from all pages 3366: 2284: 2253:Absolutely, thanks. I hope the 697:Donald Trump (Last Week Tonight) 421:selective service lottery number 29: 4342:Category:American Presbyterians 2474:Author call: "Donald J. Trump" 1100:federal background check system 791:relate to the subject is OR. -- 4159:Structure of Business Sections 2743:File:Trump in Phoenix 2016.png 1970:of them losers.</snark: --> 1401:Foderaro, Lisa (May 1, 1989). 1135:capital punishment in New York 964:his positions on Social issues 1: 4885: 4292:establishing a section order. 4173:Bankruptcies of four business 3621:His right arm is raised. See 3362:New Gage photo as lead photo? 3196:no photoshopped images period 1308:. Retrieved October 21, 2015. 1180:The Christian Science Monitor 519:, his attendance towards the 4860:But then what will Guy do?-- 3848:Original Howard Stern show: 2481:unsourced pseudo-information 1319:"Donald Trump punching back" 293:it's under editorial control 4530:of the article, subject to 2619:Misplaced curly brackets.- 2408:Also, none of the relevant 1939:Trump doesn't like losers, 1131:killings of police officers 405:described here at Knowledge 5077: 3591:I'll post mine to the left 2674:University of Pennsylvania 2670:Wharton School of Business 2552:Trump uses on his airplane 2166:since no file is available 2075:01:46, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 2059:12:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 1303:Donald Trump on Marijuana. 4939:23:29, 30 June 2016 (UTC) 4924:05:44, 30 June 2016 (UTC) 4906:04:03, 30 June 2016 (UTC) 4870:02:40, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 4852:17:06, 28 June 2016 (UTC) 4825:10:38, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4796:06:24, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4782:06:11, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4763:06:05, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4745:05:54, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4722:06:05, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4700:05:49, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4685:05:44, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4518:04:34, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4495:04:08, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4478:03:08, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4446:03:35, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4432:03:04, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4404:02:54, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4387:02:51, 27 June 2016 (UTC) 4324:15:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 4305:09:02, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 4241:first letter of the topic 4235:Talk:Order of subsections 4214:20:33, 26 June 2016 (UTC) 4141:12:30, 26 June 2016 (UTC) 4102:12:24, 26 June 2016 (UTC) 4064:00:13, 26 June 2016 (UTC) 4050:23:51, 25 June 2016 (UTC) 4024:23:46, 25 June 2016 (UTC) 4006:23:46, 25 June 2016 (UTC) 3984:22:55, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 3959:01:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 3933:20:02, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3907:18:04, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3873:18:11, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 3837:20:27, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3787:14:22, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3749:20:33, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3731:21:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3701:19:53, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3669:19:23, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3649:08:06, 22 June 2016 (UTC) 3635:19:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3617:19:23, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3603:19:17, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3549:19:06, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3531:19:04, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3517:18:55, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3502:18:48, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3488:18:43, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3474:18:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3457:18:39, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3431:18:31, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3415:17:23, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3399:16:14, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3383:16:04, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3352:20:03, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3328:19:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC) 3316:"People accused of crime" 3310:13:49, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3280:02:51, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3265:00:04, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3240:"Attempted" assassination 3235:06:32, 22 June 2016 (UTC) 3208:21:49, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3182:21:30, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3166:18:33, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3152:17:31, 21 June 2016 (UTC) 3108:22:45, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 3084:22:22, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 3069:22:06, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 3048:22:54, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 3034:22:22, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 3020:21:33, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 3005:21:25, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2991:21:23, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2977:21:14, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2962:20:54, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2943:20:42, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2928:20:39, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2913:20:30, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2899:20:21, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2884:19:48, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2869:19:46, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2852:19:40, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2837:19:35, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2823:19:21, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2808:19:12, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2739: 2716:19:39, 20 June 2016 (UTC) 2701:16:57, 18 June 2016 (UTC) 2641:17:40, 18 June 2016 (UTC) 2627:17:24, 18 June 2016 (UTC) 2614:17:20, 18 June 2016 (UTC) 2592:15:22, 18 June 2016 (UTC) 2575:06:11, 18 June 2016 (UTC) 2523:15:20, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 2506:08:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 2463:17:32, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 2435:03:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 2433:05:54, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 2397:02:13, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 2380:02:05, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 2271:Yes it was, thank you. - 2094:11:40, 5 April 2016 (UTC) 1996:08:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1853:Because the template for 1818:19:23, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1792:17:46, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1780:17:19, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1767:17:15, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1725:19:13, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1677:17:18, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1665:16:13, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1616:15:36, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1574:15:33, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1534:15:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1522:14:52, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1508:14:33, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1496:11:41, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1468:11:20, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1454:23:53, 15 June 2016 (UTC) 1435:11:20, 16 June 2016 (UTC) 1044:20:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC) 1014:20:15, 15 June 2016 (UTC) 995:20:04, 15 June 2016 (UTC) 927:20:18, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 913:19:31, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 898:19:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 866:07:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 843:19:27, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 801:19:29, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 728:17:34, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 710:13:47, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 683:12:35, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 646:11:34, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 564:In his appearance at the 525:Last Week Tonight segment 505:07:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 484:06:40, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 322:22:49, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 280:21:44, 10 June 2016 (UTC) 5061:09:35, 4 July 2016 (UTC) 5004:02:19, 4 July 2016 (UTC) 4986:23:31, 3 July 2016 (UTC) 4960:04:37, 1 July 2016 (UTC) 2547:, and Trump personally. 2317:22:47, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2301:22:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2279:22:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2267:22:10, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2249:22:04, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2233:21:55, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2184:14:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2157:07:06, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 2015:04:47, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1994:04:41, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1934:04:17, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1906:04:13, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1888:04:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1871:03:39, 9 June 2016 (UTC) 1381:Cable News Network (CNN) 1139:Central Park jogger case 1106:but supports legalizing 1082:and would ban late-term 468:11:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 452:05:51, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 434:18:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC) 392:17:34, 6 June 2016 (UTC) 376:04:10, 6 June 2016 (UTC) 353:03:26, 6 June 2016 (UTC) 243:23:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 220:23:08, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 196:22:56, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 171:22:46, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 157:22:43, 8 June 2016 (UTC) 133:19:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC) 117:19:12, 6 June 2016 (UTC) 4555:Template:Infobox person 4332:Presbyterian in infobox 3088:This post wasn't rude? 2213:You restored, saying, " 1954:in the US at this time. 765:Yoshiman6464 user pager 511:Popular culture section 4598:and Infobox statements 4271:Minor political issues 4179:Branding and licensing 3571: 3441: 2541:The Trump Organization 2490: 2477: 2196:Here's the backstory, 2091:Alt lys er svunnet hen 1957:Meanwhile my edits at 304:cited by other sources 285:As far as I know, the 263:most recent discussion 4268:Management consulting 3569: 3439: 2666:Trump graduated from 2485: 2469: 1245:. CNN. August 4, 2015 1090:. Trump supports the 880:I have an issue with 548:, I found a piece on 42:of past discussions. 5041:Recep Tayyip Erdoğan 4973:User:Midnightblueowl 4088:I don't understand, 4012:WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE 3913:WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE 3895:WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE 3292:. Likewise, in the 3272:FreeKnowledgeCreator 1338:The named reference 1119:Obergefell v. Hodges 882:2016 Chicago protest 673:historical relevance 546:Comedy Central Roast 517:Comedy Central Roast 103:Seeking GA nominator 4182:Football and boxing 2649:Wharton University? 2536:'Executive Summary' 1966:I guess that makes 1952:political candidate 1841:On 25 August 2015, 675:and significance.- 550:Wall Street Journal 3693:Somedifferentstuff 3572: 3442: 3314:If we mention it, 3257:Somedifferentstuff 2679:Wharton University 1910:Hold your horses, 1407:The New York Times 1288:Official website. 1127:capital punishment 1094:and is opposed to 1088:Planned Parenthood 1036:Somedifferentstuff 987:Somedifferentstuff 3627:William S. Saturn 3595:William S. Saturn 3523:William S. Saturn 3494:William S. Saturn 3466:William S. Saturn 3142:Fire Marshal Bill 2874:it's so small. -- 2829:William S. Saturn 2795: 2794: 2767:Donald John Trump 2689: 2688: 1223:. Ontheissues.org 1123:same-sex marriage 1108:medical marijuana 295:, discussions at 100: 99: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 18:Talk:Donald Trump 5068: 4904: 4638:reliable sources 4367: 4265:Business career 4197:Trump University 4167:Business career 3370: 2780: 2776: 2774: 2755:Phoenix, Arizona 2746: 2744: 2730: 2660: 2554:is Arial Black. 2292: 2288: 2287: 2182: 2180: 2174: 2013: 2011: 2005: 1947:.</snark: --> 1932: 1930: 1924: 1917: 1846: 1778: 1614: 1520: 1418: 1417: 1415: 1413: 1398: 1392: 1391: 1389: 1387: 1372: 1366: 1360: 1355: 1349: 1348: 1347: 1341: 1333: 1327: 1326: 1315: 1309: 1299: 1293: 1286: 1280: 1279: 1277: 1275: 1261: 1255: 1254: 1252: 1250: 1239: 1233: 1232: 1230: 1228: 1217: 1208: 1202: 1201: 1190: 1184: 1183: 1172: 1166: 1165: 1154: 1137:during the 1989 1092:Second Amendment 876:See also section 863: 856: 759:Partly for fun, 633:Trump University 502: 495: 78: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5076: 5075: 5071: 5070: 5069: 5067: 5066: 5065: 5053:Midnightblueowl 5049:Ken Livingstone 5025:Muammar Gaddafi 4970: 4902: 4361: 4334: 4277:Personal wealth 4176:Beauty Pageants 4161: 3883: 3760: 3541:Anythingyouwant 3509:Anythingyouwant 3480:Anythingyouwant 3449:Anythingyouwant 3445:Here is the RFC 3391:Anythingyouwant 3364: 3302:Anythingyouwant 3294:Harry S. Truman 3242: 2983:Anythingyouwant 2791: 2778: 2772: 2770: 2768: 2758: 2742: 2735: 2724: 2693:Anythingyouwant 2651: 2602: 2584:Anythingyouwant 2515:Anythingyouwant 2492:Sounds good to 2488:aggressively... 2476: 2389:Anythingyouwant 2341: 2285: 2283: 2259:Anythingyouwant 2239:Hillary Clinton 2178: 2172: 2169: 2009: 2003: 2000: 1928: 1922: 1919: 1911: 1880:Anythingyouwant 1844: 1836:Hillary Clinton 1832: 1772: 1608: 1514: 1423: 1422: 1421: 1411: 1409: 1400: 1399: 1395: 1385: 1383: 1374: 1373: 1369: 1363: 1356: 1352: 1339: 1337: 1335: 1330: 1317: 1316: 1312: 1300: 1296: 1287: 1283: 1273: 1271: 1263: 1262: 1258: 1248: 1246: 1241: 1240: 1236: 1226: 1224: 1219: 1218: 1211: 1205: 1192: 1191: 1187: 1174: 1173: 1169: 1156: 1155: 1151: 1142: 1111: 937: 905:ShadowDragon343 878: 859: 852: 654:In my opinion, 533:Huffington Post 513: 498: 491: 460:Anythingyouwant 426:Anythingyouwant 401:National Review 368:Anythingyouwant 364:The Smoking Gun 330: 268:Hillary Clinton 259: 235:Anythingyouwant 163:Anythingyouwant 125:Anythingyouwant 105: 74: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5074: 5072: 5064: 5063: 5029:Nelson Mandela 5021:Vladimir Lenin 5007: 5006: 4969: 4966: 4965: 4964: 4963: 4962: 4941: 4926: 4909: 4908: 4900: 4875: 4874: 4873: 4872: 4855: 4854: 4834: 4833: 4832: 4831: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4827: 4805: 4804: 4803: 4802: 4801: 4800: 4799: 4798: 4748: 4747: 4727: 4726: 4725: 4724: 4703: 4702: 4672: 4671: 4650: 4649: 4623: 4622: 4602: 4601: 4581: 4580: 4568: 4567: 4523: 4522: 4521: 4520: 4481: 4480: 4453: 4452: 4451: 4450: 4449: 4448: 4407: 4406: 4390: 4389: 4333: 4330: 4329: 4328: 4327: 4326: 4308: 4307: 4293: 4282: 4281: 4280: 4279: 4278: 4275: 4274:Private equity 4272: 4269: 4256: 4245: 4223: 4201: 4200: 4199: 4198: 4195: 4192: 4189: 4186: 4183: 4180: 4177: 4174: 4171: 4160: 4157: 4156: 4155: 4154: 4153: 4152: 4151: 4150: 4149: 4148: 4147: 4146: 4145: 4144: 4143: 4115: 4114: 4113: 4112: 4111: 4110: 4109: 4108: 4107: 4106: 4105: 4104: 4075: 4074: 4073: 4072: 4071: 4070: 4069: 4068: 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