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Talk:Donald Trump/Archive 20

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4562:"Trump's immigration policies have been among his most highly-discussed policies during the campaign. Some of his proposals have come under scrutiny by several experts on immigration who question the effectiveness and affordability of his plans. Trump vows to build a substantial wall on the Mexicoā€“United States border to keep out illegal immigrants, a wall which Trump promises Mexico will pay for. Trump would also create a "deportation force" to deport around 11 million people illegally residing in the U.S., stating "Day 1 of my presidency, are getting out and getting out fast." Trump opposes birthright citizenship. One of Trump's most controversial proposals was a "total and complete", but temporary, ban on foreign Muslims entering the United States. Pollsters have found that support for the proposal depends upon whether the pollsters say that the ban would only last "until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here". Trump later offered an "expansion" to his position by stating that the temporary ban would apply to people originating from countries with a "proven history of terrorism against the United States or its allies", or countries "compromised by terrorism". Trump insisted that the new proposal was not a "rollback" of his initial proposal to ban all Muslim immigrants. He said, "In fact, you could say it's an expansion. I'm looking now at territory." He has stated that the ban could apply to countries compromised by terrorism, such as France, Germany and Spain" 1110:
notable figure being the third richest man in the world. The significant facts are that 1) He is under an IRS audit (the excuse Trump uses for not releasing his tax returns) and 2) In spite of this audit he is willing to release his tax returns even though there is no public expectation that he do so since he is not running for office. His challenge without a doubt makes Trump's argument for not releasing tax info significantly weaker. Further, CFredkin's argument that "Buffett is campaigning for Hillary" is doubtful. He has endorsed her but is no more campaigning for her than Paul Ryan is campaigning for Trump. Is CFredkin claiming that Buffett is lying because he has endorsed Clinton? My insertion (which CFredkin deleted) read as follows: " Fellow billionaire Warren Buffett who is also under an IRS audit issued a challenge to Trump to have a joint press conference simultaneously releasing their tax returns and answering any press questions " ref: Reilly, Katie. "Warren Buffett Challenges Donald Trump to Release Tax Returns". time.com. Time Magazine. Retrieved August 10, 2016.
818:, unless it gets a lot more widespread coverage than it has now. Currently it is being reported by a few foreign sources, a few not-exactly-neutral domestic sources, and lawnewz.com which broke the story. This is not enough coverage to include something with BLP implications like this. Maybe it will get there, if Trump fights back strongly (a practice which tends to attract more coverage than the original accusation). But a civil suit, from more than 20 years ago, withdrawn a few weeks after it was filed? Not enough. (Even if the coverage does increase it will be hard to present this information neutrally. The incidents supposedly happened in 1993. She filed a lawsuit four years later, 1997, in the midst of a separate business-related lawsuit by her partner against Trump; and she dropped her suit a few weeks later, after the partner's suit was settled. This is according to the Guardian. I don't know about you, but I find this timing sufficiently questionable to affect her credibility.) -- 2670:, who is overseeing two of the Trump University cases. During campaign speeches and interviews up until June 2016, Trump called Curiel a "hater of Donald Trump", saying his rulings have been unfair, and that Curiel "happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great. I think that's fine", while suggesting that the judge's ethnicity posed a conflict of interest in light of Trump's proposal to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexican border. Many legal experts were critical of Trump's attacks on Curiel, often viewing them as racially charged, unfounded, and an affront to the concept of an independent judiciary. On June 7, 2016 Trump issued a lengthy statement saying that his criticism of the judge had been "misconstrued" and that his concerns about Curiel's impartiality were not based upon ethnicity alone, but also upon rulings in the case. 2043:"Trump ... has made a point of pursuing legal action to aggressively enforce confidentiality agreements. The Associated Press reported earlier this year that nearly every Trump employee must sign ... nondisclosure agreements bar them from releasing any ... disparaging information about the ... mogul... Trump accused of making disparaging comments... Trump made the claims in private arbitration, another ... requirement written into his confidentiality agreements that seeks to keep the details of the disputes from a public airing in court." 3031:
statements that he believes a hispanic judge could be impartial, and that he was inferring bias on Curiel's part from actions that Trump thinks were unfair in combination with Curiel's ethnicity and membership in an organization which had specifically announced a boycott of Trump. What I see here is an attempt to exclude all exculpatory sources as to racism, while putting the very inflammatory racism charge in the lead and elsewhere in this article. To me, it seems very POVish, not neutral at all. Moreover,
3052:
Anythingyouwant in his post above, such a claim would need far more than comments by Trump that he believes the judge is not being fair because he, Trump, is planning to build a wall with Mexico, and the judge is of Mexican heritage. Then a group, in which the judge is a member, boycotts Trump. How does that make the man a racist? Equally, how does this membership make the judge unfair? Show how he is racist if the real goal is to insert the claim of racism into the lede.
31: 3689:("Affiliated" means for $ 250 per year they get one vote and their members can join for $ 50 per year each.) Adding Trump's response of course would mean we would have to provide opinions on whether or not his claim that HNBA membership inferred bias was valid and whether it was the reason for his comments in the first place. We have Trump's statement that his words have been "misconstrued." That should be enough. 1611:
mean to not mentioning facts about Trump. If this would be an article about a third world dictator, for sure all the written psychological expertise about him would be worked into the article. You need to do this in the Trump-article, too. Three lines about how Trump is thinking about the movie "Citizen Kane", but not one word about the mental condition. That's what I call a white-washed article. --
4377:, as stated in my edit summary. I put in a more concise version that had been supported above at this talk page for other reasons. It's perfectly accurate and understandable the way it is. If people don't realize that Willkie never became president, then they ought to click the wikilink and learn about him. The whole thing about "Trump will be the oldest person who ever becomes president...." 439:(ec) Only if they get significant coverage from independent reliable sources. Lawsuits are very common, especially against Trump. At this moment there are many, many civil suits pending involving Trump. There have been 1,300 people suing him and 1,900 people being sued by him over the past 30 years, including 70 new cases in the past year, at least 50 of which are still active. 3462:"Katrina Pierson, a spokeswoman for Trump, has expanded on the accusations of bias, wrongly suggesting Curiel is part of a group organizing protests at Trump rallies around California. Curiel is a member of the San Diego La Raza Lawyers Association, a professional group that she appeared to confuse with the National Council of La Raza, an advocacy group." 4077:
original wording, as described above, should be restored while we debate whether to add the membership issue (which I oppose). That is the wording being discussed here at this RfC; if it is no longer what the article says, then this discussion is moot. I am going to put the above-quoted wording ("what this BLP says right now") back into the article. --
3715:, and a member of the National Hispanic Prosecutors Association, as well as the Latino Judges Association." The fact of the boycott is not in many reliable sources, but (1) CNN and the LA Times are huge ones, (2) it's uncontradicted, and (3) the coverage in reliable sources is small but non-zero so our statement about it can be small but non-zero. 1072:, and the section devoted to it is quite lengthy. If it's covered there, it might not need to be mentioned here, at least not just yet. (In comparison, Epstein doesn't have a separate article devoted only to his legal affairs, so there's no place to put the accusations against Epstein other than his own article, where they currently reside). 4710:
from its current obscurity. Offhand I don't think there is enough coverage for an article, but I'm tempted to look into it. Meanwhile, you could add this link as a second reference to the mention in the article. If the magazine later becomes more of an issue due to increased publicity, we could reconsider expanding the mention. --
1167:
Trump is running for the Presidency while Buffett is not running for anything and has nothing to gain by releasing his returns. If Trump's assertion is valid and significant enough to defeat the fact that a majority of the electorate would like to see his returns why is Buffett willing to release his returns so casually?
3797:
second paragraph in the Trump University section) looks to me to be neutral and balanced and well sourced and about the right length/weight. I endorse it, without the addition of the membership stuff. But that is NOT the paragraph which is in the article right now. Somehow it has been replaced by this:
4428:
OK, let's skip the age thing (I only put it in for comparison anyhow, not as a serious suggestion). I thought "Hillary Clinton will be the first woman president if elected" would be a good comparison, but to my surprise I don't find that in her article - only "She became the first female candidate to
4209:
The language "comes principally from running a business" was there both before and after my edit, so I assume you retract your objection to my edit. And I think the BLP as it stands is perfectly clear that he doesn't have government or military experience. Please respect the cited source which says
2387:
I agree that there has been plenty of feedback on this subject so the tag is now unnecessary, and there are many other ways to increase feedback even more if necessary. It's absolutely wrong that all mainstream commentators view Trump as appealing to racism, much less appealing explicitly. The best
2296:
This is not the first time Trump has been forced to disavow or distance himself from anti-Semitic or white supremacist connections...Ā Leaders of his own party were publicly appalled. Trump eventually tweeted an official disavowal and blamed a faulty earpiece for his initial response. But anti-Semitic
1985:
The second part ("Schwartz has no comparable reason") is relatively uncontentious if no source claims otherwise. Not every negative is going to be covered by a source. For example, an editor can write, "Obama should not be considered an expert on space travel because he's never been to space" without
1214:
There is also a finite probability that a Perseid meteor will destroy all of Trump's records. However, the most likely reason is that Trump has something to hide whereas Buffett does not. The question is, what harm is created by including the info. I would think that NPOV requires inclusion of all
314:
specifically states that "Any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources", including "surprising or apparently important claims not covered by multiple mainstream sources". When multiple mainstream media (not blogs) give coverage and analysis, then it might be fit for inclusion (keeping
2598:
article, where I would expect to see it if it was significant. As are most Hispanic lawyers in the US, the judge is a member of the HNBA , but he has never expressed support for the boycott and there is no evidence he is even aware of it. The judgeā€™s membership and the boycott was in a press release
2342:
I see "appealing to racism" as more easily provable than saying someone is racist. Maybe he is just saying these things to get elected. George Wallace never spoke about race until after lost his 1958 gubernatorial bid. Then he said "You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all
1639:
I also agree that the Citizen Kane reference can/should be removed. However a statement by one person to the effect that Trump is a "sociopath" has no business in his bio, regardless of their past relationship. Would you support adding the statement by the Clinton's former friend, David Geffen, to
1610:
about the former ghostwriter of Mr. Trump, Tony Schwartz ("The Art of the Deal"), Schwartz calls him a sociopath. This isn't mentioned in the article - this guy had a long deep professional look into mind and soul of Trump. Not mentioned in the enwiki-article at all. Guys, really, neutrality doesn't
598:
U.S. sources? That seems really very biased. International sources should hold more weight when considering notability of something happening in the U.S., I would say, by indicating international attention is being paid to the matter. (this doesn't indicate my opinion on inclusion, just commenting
442:
These are from his real estate, construction, and other business dealings. Subcontractors saying they weren't paid, this kind of thing. None of them rate a mention here. This (suspiciously timed) lawsuit is getting a little coverage, but not currently at the level or from the sources that would make
4635:
Actually that whole paragraph is sketchy as hell (probably why it has that POV tag on it). It uses Knowledge voice to make assertions. For example, saying "rebuild the military" implies that the military has been torn down or that there is something wrong with it. So it rather looks like we need to
3395:
of a club or society very strongly pro-Mexican, which is all fine. But I say he`s got bias. I want to build a wall. I`m going to build a wall. I'm doing very well with Latinos, with Hispanics, with Mexicans. I'm doing very well with them, in my opinion. And we're going to see, you're going to see,
1827:
The reason this article is so bias is because a huge number of editors currently editing it are pro-Trump POV-pushers. If you are interested in a NPOV, I hope you will stick around and revert some of their edits. It is impossible, given the 1RR per 24 rule, to stop them all unless more NPOV editors
2593:
Three editors continue to push for the inclusion of Curielā€™s membership in the Hispanic National Bar Association and the HNBA boycott in the Trump University section (see the Trump University section above). To date, there is no mention of the Curielā€™s membership in the HNBA or the HBNA boycott in
1981:
is prefaced by, "BLP applies to all material about living persons anywhere on Knowledge, including talk pages, edit summaries, user pages, images, categories, lists, article titles and drafts." On the talk page, you may link to contentious material about a subject and start a discussion without it
1513:
It is not up to us to interpret Trump's comments. Instead we are supposed to reflect how they are seen in mainstream sources. I watch the 24/7 cable news and right now they are talking about the Orlano shooter's father sitting behind Clinton and Susan Collins and GOP security analysts supporting
1166:
The challenge itself may be recentism. What is more significant, however, is the fact that Buffett, who is in a very similar position to Trump as far as being audited and being a high net worth individual has no problem in releasing his tax returns. And this is made much more significant because
4709:
Thanks for the suggestion. Actually the mention in the article IS linked (reference 148, Kelly, Keith J. (May 20, 2009). "Trump's Magazine Closed". New York Post. Retrieved February 18, 2015.). The Politico article is an interesting first-person narrative, but IMO not enough to lift the magazine
4690:
magazine. Right now this venture is in the bio article only in the listing of miscellaneous Trump ventures. Unlike others in that list, the reference is unlinked. Should we create a daughter article about the magazine or, if there's not enough information to warrant a separate article, include
4587:
Marek, there is no requirement to receive talk page consensus before making an edit. Thank you for sharing your concern about the phrase, "until a screening process has been perfected." How about the rest? Personally I'm concerned about your re-addition of the word "successfully," which I believe
4250:
I did remove that, and have never claimed otherwise, and I inserted similar material per the discussion above on this talk page. The language I inserted is accurate, and it was suggested by another editor above. I thought the consensus was to avoid crystal-ball-sounding statements, given that we
3564:
Three reasons. (1) The boycott has been hardly mentioned by reliable sources, not enough to merit inclusion in this very long article, most of whose content has been covered by the news media to hell and back. (2) The boycott has been heavily mentioned in the unreliable conservative fringe media,
3546:
I've expanded the material about Judge Curiel, without yet including anything about the HNBA. The HNBA factoid offers a slight counterweight to the sources that reported Trump was off his rocker to think the judge might have any sympathy with anti-Trumpers, and I assume that's why CNN and the LA
1376:
Why are the editors blocking actual discussion of Donald Trump's racism and demagoguery? Today he advocates killing - maybe judges, maybe Hillary Clinton, maybe anyone: "If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people, maybe there is, I donā€™t know.ā€
3804:
Trump repeatedly criticized a judge overseeing two of the Trump University cases and suggested that the judge's ethnicity posed a conflict of interest in light of Trump's proposal to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexican border. Many legal experts were critical of Trump's attacks on the judge, often
3796:
the HNBA membership, which is way, way too much information for this BLP. As TMC points out above, it seems to have been a late and minor addition to the reasons for accusing the judge of bias. But I see another problem. The quotation at the top of this RfC (for clarity, we are talking about the
3072:
SW3 wrote: "Then a group, in which the judge is a member, boycotts Trump. How does that make the man a racist?" I don't think it makes anyone a racist. Trump said the judge's memberships make one question the impartiality of the judge, meaning that Trump questioned the judge's impartiality for
1109:
User CFredkin feels that the insertion of Buffett's challenge to Trump to release his tax returns is not significant because "his (Buffett)'s notability is diminished by the fact that he's campaigning for Hilary". Nonsense. First, Buffett's notability isn't the issue here. He is, of course, a
4499:
I was surprised that you removed that phrase, and I think it should be restored. It is a more accurate description of his current position, which includes the "development of a screening process" as part, or goal, or end point of his proposed ban (or suspension or whatever his current word is).
4076:
I don't know who rewrote this paragraph, but IMO the original paragraph was better. It does a better job of describing what Trump actually said, and it includes the public response to Trump's comments as well as his later explanation that he was talking about the judge's decisions. I think the
2449:
Shouldn't the tag be removed as long as there is no consensus for it anyway, since "All editors must obtain firm consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion). If in doubt, don't make the edit."? Surely this applies to tags as
1285:
Agree with TFD - this *may* belong in the article on the presidential campaign but not here. However, just wanted to note that the argument that someone's "notability" is "diminished" because they support Clinton is... strange and sort of telling of an editor's POV. Notability is orthogonal to
3688:
While it may not be fair, this particular defense has received little coverage in mainstream media. Also, the sources are conflicting on whether or not the judge is a member of the HNBA. Some say that he is a member of the SD La Raza Lawyers' Associated which is "affiliated" with the HNBA.
4308:
The cited source also says: "Only once in American history has a major political party granted its prize to someone whose principal qualification was to have served as a corporate chief executive. That was in 1940, when Wendell Willkie was the Republican candidate against President Franklin
3030:
The editor who started this RFC wants to include an explicit statement (in the lead no less), that Trump has made appeals to racists or racism. To the extent that that is based on the Curiel incident, I don't see how you can include racism charges in this article, without including Trumps'
4616:
Regarding the removed language in the lede that some editors think was clunky, here is the relevant statement in the body of the article: "In his RNC acceptance speech, Trump promised to ... tackle Islamic terrorism by defeating ISIS and suspending immigration from countries that have been
3051:
Normally, I would say yes, as on the face of it, I don't see the harm. However, as I'm not well versed in this, and I anticipate that those being summoned by bot will also not be versed in the nuances of this, perhaps some background would be helpful. As for racism, as being mentioned by
1563:
This article isn't mentioning Trumps narcissism ONCE. Seriously dear American editors, you have a narcissistic autocrat in your front garden who's about to enter your house. The reluctance to write down obvious and often mentioned and analysed psychological facts isn't neutrality.
2520:) have objected to the tag atop the article. I have addressed the objections that motivated the tag, and I think it can now be removed because no satisfactory explanation has been given about why there's still a neutrality issue about the article as a whole. So, I'll remove it. 4008:
Donald Trump's highly personal, racially tinged attacks on a federal judge overseeing a pair of lawsuits against him have set off a wave of alarm among legal experts, who worry that the Republican presidential candidate's vendetta signals a remarkable disregard for judicial
2893:
Donald Trump's highly personal, racially tinged attacks on a federal judge overseeing a pair of lawsuits against him have set off a wave of alarm among legal experts, who worry that the Republican presidential candidate's vendetta signals a remarkable disregard for judicial
4484:
In terms of the first one, I see no consensus to add "until a screening process has been perfected." Did I miss it somewhere? The text itself is problematic, especially for the lede, because it omits all the relevant context (that "clarification" was made in response to
3962:
Donald Trump on Thursday escalated his attacks on the federal judge presiding over civil fraud lawsuits against Trump University, amid criticism from legal observers who say the presumptive GOP presidential nominee's comments are an unusual affront on an independent
2847:
Donald Trump on Thursday escalated his attacks on the federal judge presiding over civil fraud lawsuits against Trump University, amid criticism from legal observers who say the presumptive GOP presidential nominee's comments are an unusual affront on an independent
3736:. Trump's statement must have context in order for any of it to make sense to the reader, but this is probably NOT lead material, as is suggested above. BTW, it hardly matters whther the judge is a member of the HNBA, what is relevant is that Trump says he is. 3565:
suggesting that inclusion would be non-neutral. (3) If we're going to include follow-up explanations and soft-pedaling by the Trump campaign for every one of Trump's controversial statements then this article will be overwhelmed by Trump campaign propaganda. --
2297:
and white nationalist rhetoric has continued to dog the candidate. Trump has been accused of knowingly whipping up racist sentiment among his supporters. He denies it but declines to explain how anti-Semitic memes keeping making their way into his own tweets.
757:'s article (he was also accused in the lawsuit). It doesn't seem to have stirred up any controversy, either. One would think that because Epstein is already a convicted sex offender, the barrier for inclusion of any further accusations should be much lower. 3985:
A growing chorus of American legal scholars from the left, right, and beyond says remarks threaten the rule of law. The real-estate businessman also has another problem: There's no evidence whatsoever in the public record to support Trump's claims about
2870:
A growing chorus of American legal scholars from the left, right, and beyond says remarks threaten the rule of law. The real-estate businessman also has another problem: There's no evidence whatsoever in the public record to support Trump's claims about
4758:
Sorry I wasn't clear. When I said the magazine wasn't linked, I meant that, unlike so many of Trump's other ventures, it wasn't wikilinked to a dedicated daughter article. I also may return to this subject later. For now, though, the footnote to the
1654:
We'd have to consider their credibility, or at least how the reliable sources present their credibility. I remember Geffen had an issue with Clinton not pardoning his friend. Schwartz has no comparable reason. Maybe it shouldn't be added. I'm not sure.
4126:
with the misleading edit summary of "same, rephrasing for conciseness" removed "If elected, Trump would become the first U.S. President without prior government or military experience." Please kindly correct what surely was just an honest mistake.
193: 3628:. This material should be included in proportion to its significance to this topic, as shown by its weight in mainstream (high-circulation) high-quality sources (rather than by its weight in medium-circulation or medium-quality sources). See 4065:
Experts in legal ethics say that seeking to discredit a judge is not a winning strategy and that the suggestion that Judge Curiel could not treat a case fairly because of his ethnicity raises questions about Mr. Trump's ability to appoint
2950:
Experts in legal ethics say that seeking to discredit a judge is not a winning strategy and that the suggestion that Judge Curiel could not treat a case fairly because of his ethnicity raises questions about Mr. Trump's ability to appoint
3383:, the sources cited above don't say anything about it being an after-the-fact excuse as you allege. If it was, those sources wouldn't have bothered mentioning it, or would have said it's an after-the-fact excuse. And anyway, being like 2365:
I have removed the POV tag at the top of the article. Please don't add it back. The entire article is not biased. Everything is referenced. If there are specific sentences you'd like us to look at, please tell us here. But I think it's
1152:. I don't think it would even be relevant in Buffet's bio. For that matter, what's Romney doing there? He didn't release all his tax returns when he was suppose to. Isn't that a pot/kettle thing? But that's a question for another day. 4429:
be nominated for president by a major U.S. political party". So by that analogy we should also leave out the "if Trump is elected" sentence, and I now concur with its removal. (Although I thought, and still think, it is arrogant and
4433:
to assume that everybody understands the implications of Willkie being the first such nominee. But maybe people don't need to make that jump to the future in their thinking. Second or first - they'll find out when/if it happens.)
521:
Tired rehash of "Remember when X raped and murdered a 13 year old girl?" Completely unreliable and unsuitable per WP:RS and WP:BLPCRIME. It would need significant coverage, on the order of Bill Cosby's allegations to be added.
410:
I don't think we are anywhere near the level of coverage that would support including something like this. All we actually know is that a civil lawsuit has been filed, and that fact has not been picked up by mainstream sources.
3644:
source cited: "... Trump also alleged that the judge was a former colleague of a plaintiff's attorney. The attorney, Jason Forge, then admitted that he and Curiel had worked together in the U.S. Attorney's office." (Kendall,
4331:
Trump is the second NOMINEE of a major party with only corporate experience. He would, if elected, be the first PRESIDENT in that position. (Just in case there is confusion here between "second" and "first".) IMO it isn't
3778:
the mere membership in a large organization does not imply agreement with all or even most of its positions. The judge is not an officer of the organization and most likely had no influence on the decision to institute a
3131:
Trump's references to the judge's ethnicity, as well as his comments that "someone ought to look into" the judge, have led some legal experts to express concern about the effects of the comments on judicial independence.
4290:
Every one of our 44 presidents has had either government or military experience before being sworn in. Mr. Trump, a real estate mogul and former reality-television star, hasnā€™t served a day in public office or the armed
1925:: Thank you for your reply. You seem to be arguing that an editor may not speculate that a living person is showing signs of countertransference issues if the editor is basing his statement on his personal opinion. (" 4566:
There's nothing there about Trump proposing a "screening process", nevermind one that will be "perfected" (whatever that means - we ban all cars from the road until all cars are 100% perfectly safe!). It says that
3215:
In an interview, Mr. Trump said U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel had 'an absolute conflict' in presiding over the litigation given that he was 'of Mexican heritage' and a member of a Latino lawyers' association.
1199:
Or maybe because the laws in Nebraska create different risks than the laws in New York? Or because Bufett believes the audit is being conducted fairly by the IRS whereas Trump does not? The possible reasons are
631:: "Why do we exist? International Business Times aims to help the development of the global economy ... by closely following market trends and key events that are not necessarily covered by mainstream media..." -- 2140:
party? If yes, is it OK to post an unsourced response that Schwartz may actually have a comparable reason -- meaning, an issue with this counterparty? If yes, is it OK to say that this issue may be conscious or
1605:
As a foreign editor I don't wanna interfere by editing here. But there are tons of serious articles by journalists, psychologists or other experts which clearly verify some serious mental problems of Mr. Trump.
4336:
to say that he would be the first such president, any more than saying that Hillary would be the first woman president, or that Trump would be the oldest newly-elected president if he takes office in January.
2631:
makes the unsupported claim that most Hispanic lawyers in the US are members of the HNBA (a lobbying group which generally supports President Obama's decisions). Because many Hispanic lawyers are members of
1769:@Jensbest is correct about this. This page has been taken over by editors who are not willing to allow mainstream views of Trump's racism, demagoguery, and his escalation of violent hate speech. It is bias. 1181:
Because he's an avid supporter of Hillary Clinton, perhaps? Or maybe because the IRS audited Buffett for the purpose of creating a situation where Buffett would release his returns whereas Trump would not?
2093:
Schwartz, too, has made disparaging comments about the mogul; and Schwartz, too, was once the mogul's employee. No details of the legal dispute are known to have been given a public airing. Your thoughts?
1129:
and too detailed for this biography. It should be sufficient to say something like a large number of people have called for Trump to release his tax returns and it has become a significant campaign issue.
1884:
is the process where the analyst unconsciously displaces onto the patient patterns of behaviors or emotional reactions as if he were a significant figure from earlier in the analyst's life." ā€” Kaplan.)
705:
I came here to see if there was any more information about the lawsuit and was really surprised that it wasn't included already. It is very relevant and there are multiple sources, so why isn't it in?
3033:
CNN and the LA Times are considered about as reliable and well-read as any sources at Knowledge. Incidentally, the decision to boycott Trump had nothing to do with the Trump University case, AFAIK.
4728:, but it's about a much earlier, 1950s-erra magazine in the style of MAD Magazine. If that short-lived magazine deserves an article, maybe Trump's does too. I will continue to research the idea. -- 1300:
I think the argument is that one expects that Clinton supporters would say negative things about Trump and therefore it is less significant. I suppose in some cases that argument could be valid.
720: 677: 3101:- and then we can even quote Trump saying "I'm the least racist person" - and then we're done. Trump is less likely to admit he's racist than he would plead "guilty" at a future criminal trial. 3323:
There is no context missing since the membership was brought up after the fact. It was not the reason for Trump's initial "ethnic remarks". Basically nothing more than an after-the-fact excuse.
1384:
of this? Some simple solutions could include references to Trump's racism and authoritarianism by quoting any of the millions of articles discussing it, and then quoting Trump's denial, e.g.
2343:
these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor." and went on to get elected governor for four terms.
3073:
reasons that go beyond race. I must add that this RFC is malformed, because no one has suggested that the HNBA factoid should be included regardless of what other material is in this BLP.
670: 667: 4792:, we're not supposed to include a family tree that toggles between hide and show. We also don't need two separate sections in this BLP titled "Ancestry". I have started a new article 1625:
I can agree that the "Citizen Kane" paragraph is useless (I never noticed it before). Something could be added about Tony Schwartz's opinion, given their relationship. Where, though? ā€“
4170:: "Trump is the second major-party presidential nominee in American history whose experience comes principally from running a business rather than from government or military service ( 2409:
added it back, saying there was no consensus, but this is ridiculous. It just makes Knowledge look bad. The article is not biased (which is the word they're looking for, by the way).
1982:
being deleted. You may not just add contentious material based on your opinion. In the example you provided, the first part actually appears in the Geffen article with a source.
857:, the chairman of the Travis County, TX Republican Party, has publicly expressed belief in the allegations and withdrawn his support of Trump as a result, instead switching to 3544:
of the material highlighted in blue. It provides relevant info thoroughly, concisely, and without being inflammatory, it seems to me. Readers can draw their own conclusions.
1385: 274:. The article is marked as a blog post, though the author is a noted columnist and civil rights attorney, so it probably meets our reliability and verifiability criteria per 2534:
Gouncbeatduke re-inserted it. There is clearly consensus to remove it, with which I concur; the tag is inappropriate. I have removed it again and will warn Gouncbeatduke. --
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Update: Several hours ago, another woman (Jill Harth) also went public with sexual assault accusations against Trump. Unlike Johnson, Harth was not a minor at the time. See
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I don't see that as impressive enough for a BLP. If it hits a couple of major U.S. reliable news sources, it could be included with great care. It's very delicate material.
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Instead of gratuitously attacking your fellow editors, why not make some constructive contributions to the article? Golly Trump seems to bring out the worst in all of us.
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to the article myself, but I think there ought to be a discussion here on the talk page over whether and how the subject of this lawsuit should be covered in the article.
4659:
I like the picture of the skating rink that had been there for many months with an informative caption. He renovated it, so it's not like the removed church pic at all.
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gain that necessary traction. Michael Hayden, Mike Pence, and the NRA have already commented on it. It might merit a mention, but it's best to wait and see for now. ā€“
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Might as well try to fix some of the problems now while there in a NPOV editor in the house. I added the following, this topic header is a good place to discuss it.
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During campaign speeches, Trump has repeatedly called the judge currently hearing one Trump University case a "hater" and described him as "Spanish" or "Mexican."
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Kindly point to the discussion you derived a consensus from to remove this sentence of being the first one if elected. BTW, here is what the source used is saying:
3831: 861:. This is already mentioned in Morrow's article. Given that Morrow was actually compared to Trump in the media following his election, this is somewhat ironic. 3491:
Did Trump need the media's help to criticize the "club or society very strongly pro-Mexican"? I see no evidence he did. Anyway, I've got to go now. Cheers.
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You removed "If elected, Trump would become the first U.S. President without prior government or military experience." - which is not the same as you claim.
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was the first)." All the info is still there. This shortening was proposed by another editor above. It's conciser, and avoid the crystal ball language.
4337: 1904:, not if you're basing that on your personal opinion. Editors don't get to post their personal psychoanalyses of living people on talk pages. You should 3711:
is a member of the HNBA. No reliable source questions it, many affirm it, and his BLP says "Curiel also noted that he was a 'life-time member' of the
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Trump initially stated that he believed the judge, who was born in Indiana, was biased against him because of his controversial immigration proposals.
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by the Trump campaign, but appears is very few NPOV press articles on Trump University and appears to be dismissed as FUD by most NPOV news sources.
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Colleagues: I don't feel like I'm communicating well here. Can anyone set out more clearly what I'm getting at? (Do you think it's OK to post the
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Unlike with criminal cases, there is no real bar to filing a civil suit. The subject of this suit is particularly sensational. And according to
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I don't think it's up to us to act as detective and assess the credibility of allegations. I also don't see the problem with "foreign" sources.--
440: 2027:: I think we can both learn from Lunsford ("Fallacies of Argument. Begging the question is a form of circular argument, divorced from reality"). 4796:
that includes the family tree without toggling. The ancestry stuff in this BLP needs to be accordingly shortened to summarize the new article.
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that Trump had lots of motives for blasting the judge, including his membership status, quite apart from race (emphasis added): "TRUMP: He's
393: 3611:- little coverage of this "fact" outside of fringe sources, not significant. Note that it's a BLP issue so no consensus defers to excluding. 1386:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-i-am-the-least-racist-person/2016/06/10/eac7874c-2f3a-11e6-9de3-6e6e7a14000c_story.html
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implies he has some prior government or military experience which he doesn't has and thus he is "the first of", not second. Kindly correct.
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Not if you're basing that on your personal opinion. Editors don't get to post their personal psychoanalyses of living people on talk pages.
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article. Buffett gets far less press than Trump and this challenge is accordingly a far greater proportion of it (and so, far more DUE). --
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treat the alleged rape as a fact (which is what you did). I strongly advise you to make sure any contentious info you add has consensus. --
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I suspect the failure to include such content is due not so much to bias as much as to a lack of collaboration and an excessive amount of
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I made a subsection for you since the above has absolutely nothing to do with what you're saying. don't wanna derail existing discussion.
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It doesn't matter. It's going to get in, and there's no unbiased editorial oversight on this BLP subject. So much worse is on its way...
4162:: "Trump is the second major-party presidential nominee in American history whose experience comes principally from running a business ( 4022: 2907: 4469:
these edits isn't enough. The folks who deleted the content gave their reasons for doing so in their edit summaries; please respond. --
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Also, admins who attempt to keep this subject "neutral" will themselves be further "subjugated". So get on board before it's too late.
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I thought his rationale was that he's Mexican American, and this was a third or fourth attempt to make it make sense. It's spin. ā€“
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Well, yeah, of course not. But I also didn't think the screening process thing belonged in there. As to the rest - hold up a sec.
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Trump was alluding to the judge's ancestry AND his political affiliations. False accusations of "racism" (sic) were misinformed.
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You can't proof a negative, "Mr. Dershowitz". But of course you'd need to proof a positive to show a connection to the remarks.
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Roosevelt, who was seeking a third term." Thus Trump is the second. There was discussion of Willkie above in the section
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was the first). If elected, Trump would become the first U.S. President without prior government or military experience."
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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I have modified the subheader, and have inserted some underlined elaboration to help you understand. I hope it's enough.
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of the work of multiple other editors? There was no consensus against these edits. Simply saying there was no consensus
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guideline ("Explaining why you have a certain opinion helps to demonstrate its validity ... and reach consensus"), and
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The majority of CEOs do have sociopathic personalities, according to most surveys. (Lawyers usually come in second.) --
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should be ... deleted") (emphasis added). Here the editor in question appears to have posted an unsourced contentious
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I think that comment about IBTimes is playing with words. They do not say they are not mainstream media. We also have
558: 3123:, here is the specific text referred to in the RfC above. The bolded bit is what has been proposed for insertion... 2991: 2688: 272: 3267:, If we're going to include Trump's statement, I believe we should include his rationale/explanation for it as well. 1880:
May I speculate as to whether the ghostwriter of an autobiography is showing signs of countertransference issues? ("
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because you know what? I`m providing jobs. Nobody else is giving jobs. But just so you understand, this judge has
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opinion of a living person's conscious or unconscious issues (ghostwriter's countertransference), in reply to an
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in mind as well). Right now nobody is talking about it, so it would be a BLP violation to put it in the article.
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Oppose inclusion in the article for most of the reasons given above. I would however support inclusion in the
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etc. It just seems that the US media is largely ignoring the story. That doesn't mean that Knowledge has to.--
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RFC:Should Judge Curielā€™s membership in the Hispanic National Bar Association be in the Donald Trump article?
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I took care of this, since it didn't seem to involve any edits of the type that are currently frowned-upon.
2144:(It would clearly be OK to post that in the Schwartz case, no source has mentioned anything about Trump's " 1568:. Greetings from Germany, we had our fair share of autocratic leader cult here. Didn't went well at all. -- 1086:
Someone just attempted to add it to this article, citing snopes.com and the Daily Mail. I've removed it on
4593: 4474: 4405: 4299: 4241: 4200: 4149: 4132: 4100: 4023:"Legal Experts Worry After Trump Attacks Judge for Alleged Bias, Judge's Brother Calls Trump a 'Blowhard'" 3654: 3570: 3480: 3371: 3328: 2908:"Legal Experts Worry After Trump Attacks Judge for Alleged Bias, Judge's Brother Calls Trump a 'Blowhard'" 2641: 2603:
Should Judge Curielā€™s membership in the Hispanic National Bar Association be in the Donald Trump article?
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There is nothing "fringe" about it. It's simply not notable at all so far and thus we keep it out per BLP.
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Considering this article is about Trump, not his election campaign, it is too insignificant to include.
893:, your addition has been reverted and revdelled. Add anything like that again and you will be blocked. -- 3595: 1726: 1050: 1022: 982: 841: 804: 742: 696: 430: 297: 4636:
reword the text in the main body of the article, rather than introduce the same problems into the lede.
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viewing them as racially charged, unfounded, and an affront to the concept of an independent judiciary.
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I said "if no source claims otherwise". And I'm not interested in wikilaywering with you. Bottom line:
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Unless Trump broke his agreement with Schwartz first, as by not paying him his share of the royalties.
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post disparaging unsourced commentary or speculation about a BLP-applicable subject on talk pages. --
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post disparaging unsourced commentary or speculation about a BLP-applicable subject on talk pages. --
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I see no reason to mention Buffett in this article. Trump still has time to release his returns. --
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In response to the criticism, Trump and his campaign have pointed out that the judge belongs to the
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I don't have a problem with the phrase in the article, but I don't think it should be in the lede.
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Mainstream commentators and some prominent Republicans have viewed him as appealing explicitly to
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Being bold still means complying with our policies and guidelines, which include those concerning
353: 333: 4747: 4733: 4715: 4505: 4439: 4344: 4082: 3741: 3289: 3272: 2636:(which intensely opposes some of those decisions) and like groups, this claim may be in error. -- 2628: 2604: 2539: 2406: 2344: 2333: 2310: 1829: 1716: 1660: 1645: 1630: 1616: 1591:. If you can do that while adding something about Trump's narcissism, then by all means do so! -- 1573: 1551: 1494: 1337: 1125:
I do not agree with CFredkin but I still agree with them that this info should be excluded. It's
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At least at this point, this is very fringe and poorly-sourced. It does not belong in this bio.-
130: 2292:"Donald Trump's 'Star of David' Tweet About Hillary Clinton Posted Weeks Earlier on Racist Feed" 1031:
The comment wasn't directed at you (although the PA was). I already gave the offender a warning.
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is certainly mainstream and reliable, although whether it is biased or not is another question.
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have found differences in opinion depending on whether a screening process is mentioned or not.
3475:. So it looks like he even needed some help of the "biased media" to point out this membership. 1215:
relevant info and if we are to err it should be on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.
4589: 4470: 4401: 4382: 4333: 4310: 4295: 4237: 4196: 4145: 4128: 4096: 3930: 3926:"Trump trashes judge overseeing Trump University fraud case, says it's fine that he's Mexican" 3708: 3650: 3566: 3476: 3380: 3367: 3324: 3308: 3251: 3057: 2815: 2811:"Trump trashes judge overseeing Trump University fraud case, says it's fine that he's Mexican" 2667: 2637: 2432: 2149: 2095: 1978: 1974: 1961: 1901: 1888: 1793: 1741: 1694: 1592: 1458: 1418: 1391: 1323: 1157: 1131: 1032: 632: 360: 340: 311: 197: 156: 47: 17: 4558:
Specifically, here is the relevant text from main body that the lede is suppose to summarize:
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Actually, I'm not even sure it should be in this article - although in the campaign one, yes.
3640:. In addition, the article should include this helpful material, per the highest-circulation 2697:
Mr. Trump accused the judge of bias, falsely said he was Mexican and seemed to issue a threat
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nutshell ("Talk pages are ... not for expressing personal opinions on a subject"), with the
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Taxes - user feels Warren Buffett's challenge to Trump not important - Consensus requested
1091: 754: 397: 316: 279: 1873:: I, Dervorguilla, acknowledge that I should not speculate on a Talk page whether (not " 3668: 3527: 2996: 2501:
Yes, adding a tag is an edit and yes, it needs firm consensus to stay if challenged. --
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The lawsuit exists. But, it doesn't appear to have been picked up by reliable sources.
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What's that saying about catching flies? Is it easier with honey or with vinegar? ā€“
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Given the potentially contentious nature of these accusations, I'm not going to add
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I did some research, but I didn't find enough coverage for a standalone article. --
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Sure, but why not mention it with caveats? Plenty of reputable news sources have.--
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thing is to describe Trump's appeals and let readers decide what to think of them.
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An opinion piece on a blog which makes no attempt to be unbiased does not satisfy
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until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists
4000:"Trump's personal, racially tinged attacks on federal judge alarm legal experts" 3780: 3758: 3672: 3181:"Trump's personal, racially tinged attacks on federal judge alarm legal experts" 2885:"Trump's personal, racially tinged attacks on federal judge alarm legal experts" 1584: 1355: 1216: 1186: 1168: 1111: 664: 46:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Oh, Wolf Blitzer is talking about it now. Let's see if it gets any traction.
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Amy Goodman (Democracy Now!) is totally biased against Trump. Reliable? Funny.
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How the Child Rape Lawsuit Against Trump Could Hurt His and Clintonā€™s Campaigns
3247:"Donald Trump fights to keep videos of his Trump University testimony private" 2502: 2272:"Mitt Romney says Donald Trump will change America with 'trickle-down racism'" 2220:"Paul Ryan Calls Donald Trump's Attack on Judge 'Racist,' but Still Backs Him" 2207:"Poll shows 'racist' comments about federal judge hurt Trump in Florida, Ohio" 2113: 2024: 1991: 1941:
policy ("Contentious material about living persons that is ... poorly sourced
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professional ghostwriter would break a nondisclosure agreement with a client.
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Let's add this guy to the list of people who want to silence others shall we?
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when I edited the sentence about not having government or military experience
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is an analogous issue involving the future event of becoming president, and
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Great minds think alike.Ā :) Either that or we are really all sockpuppets of
4339:
Such "if elected they will be the first" reporting happens all the time. --
2218:
Steinhauer, Jennifer; Martin, Jonathan; Herszenhorn, David (June 7, 2016).
2659:, here is what this BLP says already right now about Trump and this judge: 1740:
But think of it this way: You did go 140,000 edits without an error.Ā ;) --
181: 144: 4038:"Donald Trump's Attacks On Judge's Ethnicity Brings Back Sordid History" 2923:"Donald Trump's Attacks On Judge's Ethnicity Brings Back Sordid History" 2233:"Donald Trump is running the most explicitly racist campaign since 1968" 1017:
I will try to avoid provocative comments since it is offending people.--
565:(owned by the Russian government, which is hardly biased against Trump; 173: 3229:"Requesting judge's recusal in Trump case could be risky, analysts say" 908:
Sorry but i may add that case, in a good manner and with sources. Ok?
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This guy misses the point completely - we simply have to reflect that
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I do support removal of the tag, as do other editors. Take a look at
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on the U.S. vs. international coverage sub-thread) --User:Ceyockey (
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Stop wasting 0s and 1s - collaborate on explaining Trump's racism.
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Obviously that's not as important as the size of his signature...--
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there are some valid concerns about whether the case is legitimate.
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What You Should Know About The Child Rape Case Against Donald Trump
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don't know if he'll be elected (the odds are actually against it).
3954:"Trump Says Judge's Mexican Heritage Presents 'Absolute Conflict'" 2839:"Trump Says Judge's Mexican Heritage Presents 'Absolute Conflict'" 2467: 962:
I don't see consensus here for adding a reference to this subject.
3200:"Donald Trump Keeps Up Attacks on Judge in Trump University Case" 1380:
What on Earth is wrong with the editors, incapable of reflecting
2259:"Ryan to Trump: 'Anti-Semitic images' have no place in campaign" 1390:
But there is something seriously wrong, especially editors like
3582:
for the reasons ably articulated by Muboshgu and DrFleischman.
3232: 2428: 2148:". But it would also be trivial, pointless, and unhelpful.) -- 1733:, graf 1.) Looks like the policy doesn't apply to talk pages, 561:(which is generally regarded as mainstream and reliable), and 372:
Further, non-blog, non-opinion coverage is now available from
25: 4057:"That Judge Attacked by Donald Trump? He's Faced a Lot Worse" 3848:"That Judge Attacked by Donald Trump? He's Faced a Lot Worse" 2942:"That Judge Attacked by Donald Trump? He's Faced a Lot Worse" 2733:"That Judge Attacked by Donald Trump? He's Faced a Lot Worse" 1725:
Read. "This policy of no original research does not apply to
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Yes, I know, but I think I provoked the offending comments.--
2965:"Trump says judge comments 'misconstrued' amid GOP uprising" 2689:"Donald Trump Could Threaten U.S. Rule of Law, Scholars Say" 2072:"Trump, Former Campaign Aide Settle Confidentiality Dispute" 4385:, so I don't favor re-hashing the whole crystal ball issue. 394:
Trump Faces Lawsuit Accusing Him of Raping 13-Year-Old Girl
2036:
is relatively uncontentious if no source claims otherwise.
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Excelllent suggestion, Dervorguilla. That also satisfies
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which has called for a boycott of all Trump's businesses.
4686:, the author provides information about the short-lived 1394:, whose only function seems to be to silence criticism. 4462: 4123: 3977:"Why Is Donald Trump So Angry at Judge Gonzalo Curiel?" 3874:"Why Is Donald Trump So Angry at Judge Gonzalo Curiel?" 2862:"Why Is Donald Trump So Angry at Judge Gonzalo Curiel?" 2759:"Why Is Donald Trump So Angry at Judge Gonzalo Curiel?" 2517: 2431:, for the tag to see when removal is appropriate. And 1957: 999: 2246:"Is Donald Trump Racist? Here's What the Record Shows" 4021:
Walshe, Shushannah; Keneally, Meghan (June 3, 2016).
3456:. The membership seems to has been first pointed out 2980:
I do not intend to comment on this matter any further
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Walshe, Shushannah; Keneally, Meghan (June 3, 2016).
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the effect that the Clinton's are accomplished liars?
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The following discussion is an archived record of a
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I did already add a mention of Johnson's lawsuit to
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I found two sources that seem to pass the test: the
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No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1845:Do not speculate if people are likely sociopaths. 3900:"Trump attacks 'Mexican' judge in Trump U lawsuit" 2785:"Trump attacks 'Mexican' judge in Trump U lawsuit" 224:We seem to all be coming to the same conclusion.:) 4724:Interestingly, we do have an article here called 4193:"...comes principally from running a business..." 2134:", which appears to help disparage the disputing 3547:TIimes both thought this factoid was noteworthy. 3179:DelReal, Jose A.; Zezima, Katie (June 1, 2016). 2290:Fieldstadt, Elisha; Vitali, Ali (July 4, 2016). 875:Notable and big stuffĀ : i'll include it myself. 3227:McConnell, Dugald; Todd, Brian (June 9, 2016). 977:I don't see a coherent response to the issue.-- 4311:Talk:Donald_Trump#Allegedly_racist_and_fascist 2992:"Donald Trump's Statement on Trump University" 2516:Okay, well, two editors in this section (plus 196:. It certainly isn't enough for inclusion tho. 3998:DelReal, Jose; Zezima, Katie (June 1, 2016). 3125: 2883:DelReal, Jose; Zezima, Katie (June 1, 2016). 2664: 2572:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 8: 3454:"Trump blames legal woes on 'Spanish' judge" 3158:"Trump blames legal woes on 'Spanish' judge" 2710:"Trial date set in Trump University lawsuit" 2435:. The conditions for removal are satisfied. 1002:? It makes for a toxic environment. Cheers. 1687: 1675: 4691:some basic information in this article? 1877:"!!!) a person is likely a sociopath.Ā :) 1372:Why is this article allegedly so biased? 4588:isn't supported by reliable sources. -- 3830:was invoked but never defined (see the 3816: 3400:. He's treated me in a hostile manner." 3148: 2679: 2194: 2070:Day, Chad; Pearson, Jake (2016-08-12). 2062: 998:, etc, could we do something about the 569:and Trump are rather chummy, in fact). 4528:I agree. It's clunky for the lead. -- 4144:before more gets accidentally removed. 3470:an interview given, again, days later 1679:If so, it doesn't matter what he says. 194:the allegation is officially out there 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4373:I was editing mainly for conciseness 2666:Trump repeatedly criticized a judge, 2405:: Can you please remove the POV tag? 2270:Schleifer, Theodore (June 11, 2016). 2034:('Schwartz has no comparable reason') 1956:'s appropriate unsourced contentious 1946:not related to making content choices 1354:Except its already in the Buffett bio 1068:The rape lawsuit is now mentioned in 425:Aren't lawsuits themselves notable?-- 180:sources, outside of the mainstream.- 7: 4454:Revision as of 14:04, 16 August 2016 1000:personal attacks on this page please 262:The lawsuit has now been covered by 3822: 3707:There is no conflict about whether 2244:D'Antonio, Michael (June 7, 2016). 2231:Waldman, Paul (November 25, 2015). 1828:become interested in this article. 619:is generally regarded as mainstream 3924:Finnegan, Michael (May 27, 2016). 3156:King, Robert (February 27, 2016). 2809:Finnegan, Michael (May 27, 2016). 2361:Removal of tag from top of article 192:No. There is indeed a lawsuit and 24: 3713:Hispanic National Bar Association 3667:Provides better context, and per 3136:Hispanic National Bar Association 2132:Schwartz has no comparable reason 1986:providing a source. Bottom line: 1148:as DrFleischman noted as well as 176:in that is only being covered by 4381:was discussed at length above. 4110:The discussion above is closed. 4055:Rappeport, Alan (June 3, 2016). 3846:Rappeport, Alan (June 3, 2016). 2940:Rappeport, Alan (June 3, 2016). 2731:Rappeport, Alan (June 3, 2016). 855:Robert Morrow (Texas politician) 617:IBTimes does not agree that it " 559:the International Business Times 29: 4369:Other "if he is elected" issues 4036:Edwards, Haley (June 3, 2016). 3952:Kendall, Brent (June 3, 2016). 3198:Kendall, Brent (June 2, 2016). 2963:Jackson, David (June 7, 2016). 2921:Edwards, Haley (June 3, 2016). 2837:Kendall, Brent (June 3, 2016). 2205:King, Ledyard (June 21, 2016). 1542:I do believe that this comment 3898:East, Kristen (May 28, 2016). 2783:East, Kristen (May 28, 2016). 1144:Agree, it should be excluded. 1: 2687:Liptak, Adam (June 3, 2016). 2587:22:27, 17 November 2016 (UTC) 2130:questionable statement that " 1070:Legal affairs of Donald Trump 939:, you can add the allegation 4119:"rephrasing" removed content 1853:with your fellow editors. -- 4821:05:09, 17 August 2016 (UTC) 4806:02:19, 17 August 2016 (UTC) 4776:04:32, 17 August 2016 (UTC) 4752:23:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 4738:18:27, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 4720:18:20, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 4704:18:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 4669:22:15, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4646:00:15, 17 August 2016 (UTC) 4631:22:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4612:22:17, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4598:22:12, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4581:22:16, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4554:22:10, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4538:22:13, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4524:22:09, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4510:22:04, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4495:21:58, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4479:21:52, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4444:23:58, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4424:23:24, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4410:23:14, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4395:22:30, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4349:22:23, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4327:22:12, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4304:21:46, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4261:21:34, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4246:21:26, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4220:21:19, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4205:21:14, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4184:21:00, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4154:20:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4137:20:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 4105:18:45, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 4095:, I support your revert. -- 4087:16:30, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 3975:Ford, Matt (June 3, 2016). 3872:Ford, Matt (June 3, 2016). 3789:20:57, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 3771:21:12, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3746:20:15, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3725:14:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3699:09:48, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3681:08:27, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3661:09:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3659:05:11, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 3621:23:55, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3604:21:25, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3587:21:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3575:20:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3557:18:15, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3536:18:07, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3501:18:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3485:18:25, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3452:with this ethnic thing per 3376:17:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3346:17:02, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3333:16:34, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3313:16:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3294:16:01, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3277:15:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3115:18:04, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3097:people widely see Trump as 3083:16:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3062:15:28, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3043:13:33, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3017:20:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2860:Ford, Matt (June 3, 2016). 2757:Ford, Matt (June 3, 2016). 2646:04:54, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2627:of the issue, my colleague 2613:13:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2544:04:59, 15 August 2016 (UTC) 2530:21:21, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2511:16:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2480:16:03, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2466:I have raised the question 2460:15:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2445:14:37, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2419:09:13, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 2398:20:09, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2376:20:03, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2353:18:39, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 2338:18:26, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 2319:18:17, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 2257:Gass, Nick (July 5, 2016). 2243: 2158:09:44, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 2122:08:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 2104:07:59, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 2000:09:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 1970:07:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 1918:12:50, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 1897:07:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 1863:18:07, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1838:17:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1820:18:54, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1802:04:18, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1783:03:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1750:07:47, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 1721:19:10, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1703:02:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1665:01:41, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1650:01:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1635:01:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1621:01:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1601:00:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1578:00:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 1364:23:55, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1350:21:28, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1332:21:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1310:14:07, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1296:06:50, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1281:21:37, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1257:19:05, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1225:01:23, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1210:18:26, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1195:01:23, 14 August 2016 (UTC) 1177:18:21, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1162:05:05, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1140:04:57, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1120:03:37, 13 August 2016 (UTC) 1100:22:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC) 1082:06:41, 10 August 2016 (UTC) 4837: 4461:, what is your reason for 1556:22:37, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1538:22:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1524:22:26, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1499:21:49, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1485:21:38, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1467:21:06, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1453:Yes, add me to your list. 1449:21:03, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1427:20:41, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1408:20:00, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 1055:10:20, 3 August 2016 (UTC) 4617:compromised by terrorism 4210:"second" and not "first". 1792:and general nastiness. -- 1041:13:10, 29 July 2016 (UTC) 1027:10:51, 29 July 2016 (UTC) 1013:06:05, 29 July 2016 (UTC) 987:10:17, 28 July 2016 (UTC) 972:00:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC) 957:00:08, 26 July 2016 (UTC) 929:00:02, 26 July 2016 (UTC) 903:23:58, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 885:23:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 871:23:07, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 846:01:25, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 828:17:57, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 809:12:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 794:06:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 767:06:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 747:11:48, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 733:01:02, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 715:00:29, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 701:07:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC) 659:04:50, 12 July 2016 (UTC) 641:03:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC) 609:00:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC) 594:00:23, 11 July 2016 (UTC) 579:22:21, 10 July 2016 (UTC) 252:02:39, 25 June 2016 (UTC) 234:23:53, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 220:23:39, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 206:23:09, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 188:22:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 165:22:04, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 151:21:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 139:17:08, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 124:06:40, 24 June 2016 (UTC) 4794:Ancestry of Donald Trump 4763:article will have to do. 4112:Please do not modify it. 3398:treated me very unfairly 2566:Please do not modify it. 2433:here's an essay about it 2146:not pardoning his friend 1074:FiredanceThroughTheNight 863:FiredanceThroughTheNight 786:FiredanceThroughTheNight 759:FiredanceThroughTheNight 651:FiredanceThroughTheNight 623:FiredanceThroughTheNight 571:FiredanceThroughTheNight 550:06:46, 4 July 2016 (UTC) 542:FiredanceThroughTheNight 532:02:20, 3 July 2016 (UTC) 501:23:49, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 453:23:55, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 435:23:37, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 421:21:12, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 406:17:44, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 368:07:22, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 348:07:13, 2 July 2016 (UTC) 328:15:57, 1 July 2016 (UTC) 302:08:52, 1 July 2016 (UTC) 292:I think it is notable.-- 288:07:20, 1 July 2016 (UTC) 116:FiredanceThroughTheNight 4158:It was not a mistake. 3389:this June 5, 2016 proof 2712:. CBS News. May 6, 2016 1608:In the New Yorker-essay 3594:- It's insignificant. 3466:then comes your source 3448:Let's see. He started 3141: 2672: 2326:already been discussed 2187: 1958:choice-related opinion 4383:Talk:Donald_Trump#Age 2179: 536:Are you referring to 42:of past discussions. 3826:The named reference 2403:User:Anythingyouwant 1671:ethically principled 3958:Wall Street Journal 3204:Wall Street Journal 2843:Wall Street Journal 2561:request for comment 2328:in the recent past. 2309:What do you think? 2074:. Associated Press. 1929:") But compare the 1882:Countertransference 1849:Please remember to 1847:Non-admin reminder: 941:if consensus exists 269:The Huffington Post 4530:Somedifferentstuff 3852:The New York Times 2737:The New York Times 2429:more documentation 2407:User:Gouncbeatduke 2224:The New York Times 1471:Utterly hopeless. 1249:Somedifferentstuff 1185:Conspiracy theory? 685:, the Daily Beast 669:, the Independent 4774: 4702: 3931:Los Angeles Times 3709:Gonzalo P. Curiel 3541:Support inclusion 3421: 3407:comment added by 3387:, I can give you 3381:User:TracyMcClark 3252:Los Angeles Times 2816:Los Angeles Times 2668:Gonzalo P. Curiel 2625:neutral statement 2425:the documentation 2324:I think this has 1954:eminent colleague 1392:User:Dervorguilla 932: 915:comment added by 625:. See IBT Media, 606: 540:, by any chance? 103: 102: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 18:Talk:Donald Trump 4828: 4767: 4726:Trump (magazine) 4695: 4680:a recent article 4431:WP:Systemic bias 4069: 4068: 4052: 4046: 4045: 4033: 4027: 4026: 4018: 4012: 4011: 3995: 3989: 3988: 3972: 3966: 3965: 3949: 3943: 3942: 3940: 3938: 3921: 3915: 3914: 3912: 3910: 3895: 3889: 3888: 3886: 3884: 3869: 3863: 3862: 3860: 3858: 3843: 3837: 3836: 3835: 3829: 3821: 3596:Snooganssnoogans 3420: 3401: 3256: 3255:(June 14, 2016). 3243: 3237: 3236: 3224: 3218: 3217: 3212: 3210: 3195: 3189: 3188: 3176: 3170: 3169: 3167: 3165: 3153: 3111: 3106: 3001: 2989: 2983: 2982: 2977: 2975: 2960: 2954: 2953: 2937: 2931: 2930: 2918: 2912: 2911: 2903: 2897: 2896: 2880: 2874: 2873: 2857: 2851: 2850: 2834: 2828: 2827: 2825: 2823: 2806: 2800: 2799: 2797: 2795: 2780: 2774: 2773: 2771: 2769: 2754: 2748: 2747: 2745: 2743: 2728: 2722: 2721: 2719: 2717: 2706: 2700: 2699: 2684: 2596:Trump University 2568: 2507: 2302: 2299: 2286: 2284: 2282: 2266: 2253: 2240: 2227: 2214: 2199: 2118: 2076: 2075: 2067: 2032:The second part 2030:Your argument: " 1996: 1914: 1859: 1816: 1811: 1779: 1774: 1690: 1689: 1678: 1677: 1481: 1476: 1445: 1440: 1404: 1399: 1008: 953: 931: 909: 899: 853:Another update: 600: 365: 358: 345: 338: 326: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 4836: 4835: 4831: 4830: 4829: 4827: 4826: 4825: 4813:Anythingyouwant 4798:Anythingyouwant 4786: 4676: 4661:Anythingyouwant 4638:Volunteer Marek 4623:Anythingyouwant 4604:Volunteer Marek 4573:Volunteer Marek 4546:Volunteer Marek 4516:Volunteer Marek 4487:Volunteer Marek 4459:Volunteer Marek 4456: 4416:Anythingyouwant 4387:Anythingyouwant 4371: 4319:Anythingyouwant 4317:was also cited. 4253:Anythingyouwant 4212:Anythingyouwant 4176:Anythingyouwant 4172:Wendell Willkie 4164:Wendell Willkie 4121: 4116: 4115: 4074: 4073: 4072: 4054: 4053: 4049: 4035: 4034: 4030: 4020: 4019: 4015: 4004:Washington Post 3997: 3996: 3992: 3974: 3973: 3969: 3951: 3950: 3946: 3936: 3934: 3923: 3922: 3918: 3908: 3906: 3897: 3896: 3892: 3882: 3880: 3871: 3870: 3866: 3856: 3854: 3845: 3844: 3840: 3827: 3825: 3823: 3818: 3717:Anythingyouwant 3642:highest-quality 3613:Volunteer Marek 3549:Anythingyouwant 3493:Anythingyouwant 3409:Anythingyouwant 3402: 3385:Alan Dershowitz 3338:Anythingyouwant 3261: 3260: 3259: 3244: 3240: 3226: 3225: 3221: 3208: 3206: 3197: 3196: 3192: 3185:Washington Post 3178: 3177: 3173: 3163: 3161: 3155: 3154: 3150: 3109: 3104: 3075:Anythingyouwant 3035:Anythingyouwant 3024: 3009:Anythingyouwant 3006: 3005: 3004: 2990: 2986: 2973: 2971: 2962: 2961: 2957: 2939: 2938: 2934: 2920: 2919: 2915: 2905: 2904: 2900: 2889:Washington Post 2882: 2881: 2877: 2859: 2858: 2854: 2836: 2835: 2831: 2821: 2819: 2808: 2807: 2803: 2793: 2791: 2782: 2781: 2777: 2767: 2765: 2756: 2755: 2751: 2741: 2739: 2730: 2729: 2725: 2715: 2713: 2708: 2707: 2703: 2686: 2685: 2681: 2589: 2564: 2554: 2522:Anythingyouwant 2505: 2472:Anythingyouwant 2437:Anythingyouwant 2390:Anythingyouwant 2363: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2289: 2280: 2278: 2269: 2256: 2230: 2217: 2204: 2200: 2196: 2116: 2080: 2079: 2069: 2068: 2064: 2038:" The reality: 1994: 1912: 1887:Just sayin'. -- 1857: 1814: 1809: 1777: 1772: 1686: 1674: 1479: 1474: 1443: 1438: 1402: 1397: 1374: 1342:Anythingyouwant 1288:Volunteer Marek 1202:Anythingyouwant 1107: 1010: 1006: 951: 910: 897: 755:Jeffrey Epstein 361: 354: 341: 334: 320: 108: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4834: 4832: 4824: 4823: 4785: 4782: 4781: 4780: 4779: 4778: 4756: 4755: 4754: 4675: 4674:Trump magazine 4672: 4657: 4656: 4655: 4654: 4653: 4652: 4651: 4650: 4649: 4648: 4590:Dr. Fleischman 4585: 4584: 4583: 4564: 4559: 4556: 4542: 4541: 4540: 4471:Dr. Fleischman 4455: 4452: 4451: 4450: 4449: 4448: 4447: 4446: 4370: 4367: 4366: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4362: 4361: 4360: 4359: 4358: 4357: 4356: 4355: 4354: 4353: 4352: 4351: 4294: 4286: 4272: 4271: 4270: 4269: 4268: 4267: 4266: 4265: 4264: 4263: 4227: 4226: 4225: 4224: 4223: 4222: 4139: 4120: 4117: 4109: 4108: 4107: 4097:Dr. Fleischman 4071: 4070: 4061:New York Times 4047: 4028: 4013: 3990: 3967: 3944: 3916: 3890: 3864: 3838: 3815: 3814: 3810: 3809: 3808: 3807: 3806: 3799: 3798: 3791: 3773: 3748: 3730: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3702: 3701: 3683: 3662: 3623: 3606: 3589: 3577: 3567:Dr. Fleischman 3559: 3538: 3520: 3519: 3518: 3517: 3516: 3515: 3514: 3513: 3512: 3511: 3510: 3509: 3508: 3507: 3506: 3505: 3504: 3503: 3433: 3432: 3431: 3430: 3429: 3428: 3427: 3426: 3425: 3424: 3423: 3422: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3348: 3316: 3315: 3297: 3296: 3279: 3258: 3257: 3245:Moran, Greg. 3238: 3219: 3190: 3171: 3147: 3146: 3142: 3118: 3117: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3065: 3064: 3023: 3020: 3003: 3002: 2997:New York Times 2984: 2955: 2946:New York Times 2932: 2913: 2898: 2875: 2852: 2829: 2801: 2775: 2749: 2723: 2701: 2693:New York Times 2678: 2677: 2673: 2663: 2662: 2661: 2660: 2651: 2650: 2649: 2648: 2602: 2594:the Knowledge 2592: 2590: 2580:to include. - 2576: 2575: 2574: 2555: 2553: 2550: 2549: 2548: 2547: 2546: 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1268: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1236: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1212: 1197: 1132:Dr. Fleischman 1106: 1103: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1004: 960: 959: 906: 905: 851: 850: 849: 848: 831: 830: 816:Do not include 812: 811: 776: 775: 774: 773: 772: 771: 770: 769: 751: 750: 749: 643: 628:2015 Media Kit 614: 613: 612: 611: 555: 554: 553: 552: 518: 517: 516: 515: 514: 513: 512: 511: 510: 509: 508: 507: 506: 505: 504: 503: 474: 473: 472: 471: 470: 469: 468: 467: 466: 465: 464: 463: 462: 461: 460: 459: 458: 457: 456: 455: 443:it notable. -- 390:Democracy Now! 370: 350: 304: 260: 259: 258: 257: 256: 255: 254: 240:Randy in Boise 107: 104: 101: 100: 95: 92: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4833: 4822: 4818: 4814: 4810: 4809: 4808: 4807: 4803: 4799: 4795: 4791: 4783: 4777: 4773: 4770: 4766: 4762: 4757: 4753: 4749: 4745: 4741: 4740: 4739: 4735: 4731: 4727: 4723: 4722: 4721: 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this
FiredanceThroughTheNight
talk
06:40, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Objective3000
talk
17:08, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Mr
X
21:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
--TMCk
talk
22:04, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
fringe
QUESTIONABLE
Mr
X
22:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
the allegation is officially out there
--TMCk

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