Talk:Donald Trump/Archive 15

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government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists."(the previous and your preferred wording). I don't see any way that we can gloss over his frequently repeated insistence on banning Muslims, even if he did later modify it by saying "from terrorist countries". (In fact when he first said it he even said the ban would apply to American citizens who were Muslim, although he quickly retracted that.) And his ban was never just on "immigration", it was on entering the country at all - as tourists, as foreign dignitaries, students, whatever. The "terrorist countries" comment in June did not revoke the Muslim ban, it expanded on it, as per the NPR source: "Responding to the Orlando shootings in a New Hampshire speech Monday, presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump used the appearance to expand on his previous call to temporarily ban all Muslims from immigrating to the United States." The fact that he specified "from terrorist countries" did not in any way erase his previous and never-retracted ban on "Muslims". The whole history - ban and expansion - is spelled out in the text. If you think the modification is so important it has to go in the lede, how about something like this: "a proposal to temporarily ban foreign

769:, you had no right to remove that phrase, and in fact you violated the Discretionary Sanctions by doing so. You need CONSENSUS to act on disputed material, not just your own conviction that you are right. CFredkin and I had reached consensus on a wording that included both "Muslims" and "from terrorist countries." Volunteer Marek and Neutrality had earlier agreed with me that "Muslim" should be included. That leaves just you, one against four, claiming that just because he doesn't repeat "Muslim" in every statement he makes, that somehow means that he has dropped religion in favor of national origin (which not even his own people believe; in fact one of them clarified that Trump means MUSLIMS from terror countries). Trump's Muslim ban (including modifications) is his second-most-notable position (after "build the wall"), and it is explained in a full paragraph in the text. IMO we would be wrong to just ignore it in the lede. I think the agreed-upon statement above should be put into the article but I will wait for a little more input from others - because 944:

a pretty good job of doing that. If Trump should eventually make a clear statement of his position - maybe in his acceptance speech? - we should certainly use that. But in the meantime we have to go with what we have. BTW if you look at his ACTUAL platform, spelled out on his web page, he goes into great specific detail about the Wall and about Mexico paying for it. But there is nothing in writing about Muslims that I could find. In fact he has never said anything definite or in writing about his Muslim ban, except for the pledge he used to repeat at every rally, reading it from a card: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." I believe he doesn't do that any more, but he hasn't replaced it with any similarly clear statement. --

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made two definitive, formal statements on this subject that he has put in writing and repeated many times: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." (December) and "When I am elected, I will suspend immigration from areas of the world when there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our allies, until we understand how to end these threats." (May) He also said, in a May interview, that a Muslim ban "hasn't been called for yet" and was "only a suggestion." And now, in July, he offered an incomprehensible ramble about undefined "territories". The two written statements are his own clear words and IMO should be respected as such, particularly over trying to

3154:. His platform includes renegotiation of U.S.–China trade, "real" immigration reform including the building of a wall along the U.S.–Mexico border, replacement of Obamacare, improvement of veterans' care, and tax cuts. Trump is a strong proponent of "law and order". He has suggested a temporary suspension of immigration to the United States from nations having a proven history of terrorism against the U.S. until vetting mechanisms can be put in place that successfully screen out potential terrorists. (An earlier suggestion was to temporarily ban all foreign Muslims from entering the United States.) 3550:"Opposition to changing SS and Mcare" depends on when he is talking and what your definitions are; he does seem to oppose the usual Republican position of cutting or privatizing them. Likewise he doesn't talk a whole lot about Dodd-Frank and CPA. Pro-life and same-sex marriage are routine for all Republicans, not worthy of mention in the lede. Likewise the climate change and regulation points. He did make quite a point in his nomination speech about the "Free the pulpit" thing, maybe we could add that because we haven't heard a lot about it from other candidates. -- 1643:– These accusations are mostly based on fantasies of the commentators and the echo chamber of the media circus (which Trump loves to provoke, granted). Look at the numerous people from minorities who have been employed in his businesses. Look at his promotion of women to executive positions, even decades ago. Look at the convention speakers he invited over the last few days: plenty of women, black people, latinos, Asian immigrants, a gay billionaire, prayers from 4 different religions, etc. I don't think any prior GOP candidate achieved such diversity. — 2769:(114 words total), you get: 0% – 14% – 60% – 19% – 5%. We could rebalance by removing all of the parenthetical material about historical immigration policy and substituting material about Trump's 'weightiest' policies in the gay-rights and foreign-policy areas. (Like: 'Trump has opposed a state law limiting transgender persons' access to bathroom facilities...' 'Trump maintains that the U.S. must have an "unpredictable" foreign policy to keep its adversaries from anticipating its actions...' Or whatever language you think fits here.) -- 941:"Asked to clarify whether Trump still supports a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. as originally proposed, a ban of immigration from countries associated with terrorism, as he said in his post-Orlando speech, or strong vetting of people coming into the country from such nations, as he said this past weekend in Scotland, (spokeswoman) Hicks said: "Mr. Trump stated a position consistent with his speech two weeks ago." "He has been very clear," she added in an email Monday. It's the press, she said, that has "tried to cause confusion."" 1989:

clarify, even when asked directly, if this "areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism" standard replaces his Muslim ban, or narrows it, or applies to people of all religions from such areas, or what. Since he hasn't withdrawn the ban, and hasn't specified how it relates to the "terrorist areas of the world" standard, I think we have to continue to include the (possibly modified) Muslim ban in the lede. The history of the changing proposals is expounded in the text. --

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history of ..." That leaves open the disputed question of whether the "terror countries" proposal replaces the "Muslim" ban or leaves it in place in a more restricted form. One other possible friendly amendment: I really think " "real" immigration reform" should say " "real" immigration reform including a proposal to build a wall along the Mexican border". That really is his best-known and most consistent platform, and it can be cited to any of his speeches or directly to his

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more severely vetted" but could ultimately be allowed entry into the country. "People coming from the terror states -- and you know who I'm talking about when I talk about the terror states -- we are going to be so vigilant you wouldn't believe it and frankly a lot will be banned," Trump told CNN after touring his golf course here. Trump also focused on the need to ban individuals from "terrorist countries" in an interview later Saturday with Bloomberg Politics.

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he says "No, I - call it whatever you want. We'll call it territories, OK?" And when she asks "So not Muslims?" he replies with word salad. If you can find a "clear" statement of policy in this, then you have a very good imagination. In fact this is typical Trump, virtually impossible to parse into an actual statement of policy. But if you see a way to incorporate this recent interview into the lede, please show me your suggested wording. --

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proponent of "law and order". He has suggested a temporary suspension of immigration to the United States from nations having a proven history of terrorism against the U.S., Europe, or allies until vetting mechanisms can be put in place that successfully screen out potential terrorists. (An earlier suggestion was to temporarily ban all foreign Muslims from entering the United States.) Trump believes that defeating ISIS "fast" is mandatory.

3696:'s suggested draft, which seems somewhat divorced from the widely circulated mainstream sources that purport to provide concise well-balanced compilations of Trump's most important positions. Perhaps we should try to limit our discussion to those items that are listed in at least two such compilations, as published in mainstream sources that all editors are willing to acknowledge as high quality (BBC News, for example). -- 321:

comment that a Scottish Muslim "wouldn't bother me". His spokespeople, trying to explain what he said, were all over the map, ranging from "it's about Muslims from countries that support terrorism" to "nothing has changed." Trump himself, as recently as June 25, "declined to answer directly in an interview with CNN whether his ban would extend to all foreign Muslims."

2260:"We need to stop giving legal immigrant visas to people bent on causing us harm. From the 9/11 hijackers , to the Boston Bombers , and many others, our immigration system is being used to attack us... Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform: Increase standards for the admission of refugees and asylum-seekers to crack down on abuses." 2089:"His platform includes measures to combat illegal immigration, opposition to "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP, and a proposal to temporarily ban foreign Muslims from entering the United States (which he later said would focus on persons from "terrorist countries") until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists." 2913:. I didn't make clear in my amended comment that I was talking about our final draft of the passage in graf 3 where we're trying to provide a compilation of his most important positions. (We do have a consensus about the topic named in the section heading: the term "terrorist countries" isn't nearly as appropriate as the wording Trump actually uses.) -- 1845:. Here, for example, we could (1) say what the term 'terrorist countries' means or (2) substitute more accessible language. Based on the terminology used in top-ranked sources (AP, Reuters, and the like), we can use language such as '...areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the U.S., Europe, or their allies...' 2830: 1241: 2634:. It's basically wording from one of the seven Donald J Trump Position papers written by Donald J Trump for President campaign staff on the candidate's behalf, adopted by the candidate's campaign (around August 16, 2015), and published on the candidate's campaign site. Consequently, it's basically wording from his official campaign platform. 3367:. Don't make it a matter of "principle" or "pandering" or "encouraging disingenuous claims" over a trivial matter like one source where multiple sources are available, or the size of a signature. These political pages are charged enough as it is without going to war over something where perfectly acceptable alternatives are available. -- 2511:

by all foreign Muslims, except Muslim visitors from friendly countries, then later) from "territories" having "a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our allies" until better methods of vetting can be developed for screening out potential terrorists. Trump believes that defeating ISIS "fast" is mandatory.

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administrator - "must not reinstate any challenged (via reversion) edits without obtaining firm consensus on the talk page of this article" - the DS here apply only to RESTORING controversial material, not to removing it. So in a strict sense you did not violate the DS as stated at this article, and I apologize for saying you did. --

2480:- I doubt if even Trump would recognize that as his position. It's certainly not wording that has been widely publicized or used by him in speeches. It's basically boilerplate from a position paper, probably written by staff. The recent wording that he has used, both in writing and in speeches, and has been widely publicized is 325:

be "even more severely vetted". So as I proposed above, we could say "particularly those from countries with a proven history of terrorism". But there is no way we can say or imply that he has withdrawn his platform to ban Muslims from entering the country. The sources, and Trump himself, simply do not support that. --

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But here are some other pre-eminent, widely circulated publications and newswire services: NYTimes.com, WSJ.com, Time.com, and BigStory.AP.org. (Unlike the Guardian, Washington Post, FOX, CNN, and such, they're marketing themselves to a world audience rather than a particular demographic, and they're

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The editor who wants Politico removed for being biased needs to make his case. I have not encountered any reliability or bias problems with Politico on the other politicians pages that I've edited. Until the editor has shown that Politico is not a reliable, non-partisan source, the Politico reference

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proposal doing in the lead. The Muslim ban has long been banned, why is it even mentioned in the lead if it's not what Trump is leading on now? It makes no sense. "Vetting mechanisms" is a complicated term, we must follow the Knowledge policies and use terms that it is at least mostly understandable.

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Yes, the Washington Times is known for its conservative bias but that's not the problem. Nobody minds using the Wall Street Journal on US politics pages or the Financial Times or Economist on UK politics pages, despite their alleged biases. That's because those sources are reliable and respected. The

2878:". But it may not look like a reasonable compromise to editors who haven't been following this thread for the understandable reason that the term 'terrorist countries' no longer appears in the article. Not a consensus edit yet, but a good edit nonetheless, and one that needed to be made without delay. 2192:

The reason I challenged Dervorguilla to come up with a proposed wording (I almost added "good luck") is that it is almost impossible to make sense out of his latest interview, and impossible to tell whether he has renounced his earlier "Muslim ban" or simply stopped talking about it. He has actually

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Yeah, right. Clear as mud, as the saying goes. Apparently his staff can weasel-talk almost as well as he can. But our job as encyclopedists is to try to convey a true sense of the situation, as reported by Reliable Sources. I think the phrase we now have in the lede, and the paragraph in the text, do

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P.S. In the sources you quoted above: while you were cherry-picking quotes, did you not notice the headlines? Only the WSJ even implies that he might be backpedaling on his Muslim ban. The others say "Orlando justifies my Muslim ban", "Donald Trump's evolving Muslim ban", and "Trump hardens stance on

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So there's really no evidence that he has withdrawn his repeated call for a "shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." At most, he recently said that his ban is not ironclad and that people coming from "terror countries" would

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of his political beliefs (I understand if not all of the content I mentioned could be included). The existing positions that are mentioned could be trimmed some, and lines such as "Trump's presidential campaign has received extensive media coverage and international attention." and "with the rallies

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Trump's "signature issue" is illegal immigration, in particular building a wall on the border with Mexico and the mass deportation of illegal immigrants. Having early in his campaign advocated a temporary ban on all Muslim immigration, Trump has reformulated the ban so that it would be geographical,

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I've edited the "Political positions of Donald Trump" for some time now. This is the kind of content I'd like to see included in the "political positions" part of the lede to this wikipedia page. I've divided them up into "natural categories" (immigration, economy, social issues, energy/environment,

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The amount of quotation marks is disturbing. The current lead implies that NAFTA and TPP are "unfair", which many disagree on, Trump's immigration policies are "real", which is very debatable, and Trump is the "law and order" candidate, when he's been wanting to punch protesters at his rallies. Just

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concerned with control over the details of any document that may have legal consequences -- for instance, a formally adopted platform position paper. (Once approved, the position becomes official and the paper can be used as evidence in legal proceedings.) Compare with Trump's speeches, which are so

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His platform includes measures to combat illegal immigration and opposition to "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP. In December 2015 he suggested a temporary ban on foreign Muslims entering the United States; in May 2016 he said he would accept Muslim visitors from friendly countries but

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Donald Trump: You know-- the Constitution -- there's nothing like it. But it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, as a country, OK? And I'll tell you this. Call it whatever you want, change territories, but there are territories and terror states and terror nations that we're not

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by including the material in the encyclopedia, but at the BLP of the attacker rather than the BLP of the attackee, except in very unusual cases where the attack is very very widely covered by reliable sources. That's especially advisable where the attacker is less notable than the attackee, because

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On June 13, Mr. Trump offered a slightly new formulation: The ban would be geographical, not religious, applying to “areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies.” But not just any kind of terrorism, he clarified on Twitter two hours

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I picked the most relevant quotes. I gave the electronic headline for each article. The headline is not a static source: it's written by editors and varies by edition. And the electronic headline is most often unrelated to the original print headline (the more authoritative 'source'). But no quality

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His platform includes measures to combat illegal immigration, opposition to "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP, and a proposal to temporarily ban foreign Muslims from entering the United States (which he later said would focus on those from from terrorist countries) until the government

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Instead, Trump emphasized that Muslims from states with heavy terrorist activity would be "very strongly" vetted and suggested that the U.S. would more closely scrutinize all individuals seeking to enter the country. He also told the Daily Mail that individuals from "terror countries" would be "even

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objections, any editor wishing to add, restore, or undelete it must ensure it complies with Knowledge's content policies. If it is to be restored without significant change, consensus must be obtained first. Material that has been repaired to address concerns should be judged on a case-by-case basis.

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obviously disagree. (OK. So when my opinion differs from yours, re anything, starting now, it's OK then that I publicly characterize to others that your interest is in trivia and your opinion is trivial!? Good one!) Perhaps you s/ hat that thread and label the hat "Trivia"!? (Never mind two editors

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Trump opposes "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP. His platform includes renegotiation of U.S.–China trade, "real" immigration reform including the building of a wall along the U.S.–Mexico border, replacement of Obamacare, improvement of Veterans' Care, and tax reform. Trump is a strong

2714:

You (MelanieN & Dervorguilla) still aren't together re whether "Muslim ban" s/b mentioned in lede. (If that history is included, it lengthens the text, and I don't think a parenthetical can be avoided.) Anyway here's updated suggested text (BTW in Trump's RNC speech he said "nations" instead of

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His platform includes "real" immigration reform, renegotiation of U.S.–China trade, opposition to "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP, replacement of Obamacare, improvement of Veterans' Care, and tax reform. He has suggested a temporary ban on immigration to the United States (initially

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So he sort of says, several times, that he prefers to talk about territories (or "call it whatever you want"). As for whether he means Muslims, notice that she asks him twice he is talking about Muslims or not, and he evades the question both times. When she asks "so you're changing your position?"

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We can't make up our own definition. But we can use the definition Trump gave: "When I am elected, I will suspend immigration from areas of the world when there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our allies, until we understand how to end these threats." We do in

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I agree. WaPo meets RS and is generally reliable for a BLP, but as per policy and longstanding tradition, serious claims like being a racist require serious and significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. Moreover, the WaPo source isn't even an actual article, but rather explicitly marked as

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Yes, I know that the author does not write the headline and that it can change. But it reflects what somebody reading and evaluating that article thought the article said. Most of them thought it was still about the "Muslim ban". You seem to be the only one who thinks one quote of his amounted to a

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The presumptive Republican nominee would now ban Muslims only from “terror” countries, he told the Daily Mail on the 18th hole of his golf course in Aberdeen, Scotland, while he urged several golfers to play through the hole. "I don't want people coming in from the terror countries. You have terror

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I would mostly support IHTS's proposed wording. If I could tweak and simplify the Muslim line, how about "Early in the campaign he suggested a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States; he later modified his proposal to one which would exclude immigrants from territories having "a proven

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IHTS - One of the disagreements between us here is whether we should include the Muslim ban as part of his "platform," since he hasn't mentioned it recently and some people think it has been replaced by more recent wording. And he later said it was "just a suggestion". I think those are reasonable

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Thanks for this. Offhand reaction: This is way to much to go in the lede, which can include only a few points that can be stated in a sentence or two. (That's the nature of the lede.) In the current proposal, we already have the wall and the immigration limits. We have tax cuts and repeal of ACA.

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He supports increasing U.S. military defense spending, has at various times said he favored and opposed sending US ground forces to defeat the Islamic State, and calls for the resumption of waterboarding. Trump proposes to renegotiate NATO and the WTO; leaving the organizations unless changes are

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We do use respected sources that have a conservative or liberal bias (although I wouldn't necessarily include the Moonie Times as a "respected source"). But nobody has alleged that Politifact has a bias; the only objection given here seems to be its ownership. As pointed out by Jeppiz, all papers

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The "guide" I used in above draft (for better or worse) was to include after "platform" only items listed under "Positions" on the Trump campaign website. (Beyond that there are so many other position points that could be mentioned besides those I did, so what guide for inclusion/priority/weight?

574:... Trump provided some additional details about the temporary Muslim ban that he proposed ... in December. First of all, it may not be a Muslim ban at this point. In his speech he simply referred to closing the borders to nations that "have a history of terrorism" against the US and its allies... 439:

His platform includes measures to combat illegal immigration, opposition to "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP, often non-interventionist views on foreign policy, and a proposal to temporarily ban foreign Muslims from entering the United States (later changed to people from terrorist

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Could you link to a few of those compilations of views? I'm convinced that my first bullet point would be mentioned in every compilation, as would tariffs on China and Mexio from BP2, bringing back torture (final BP) and his comment about targeting terrorists' families (which I did not put in my

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I see Politifact articles are often used in Trump's article. Politifact's parent company openly endorses and donates to Hillary Clinton. There is a clear bias in their articles. Yes, sometimes what they write is relatively objective, but there is a very clear bias other times. Can we just please

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That was not at all "clear", as you can see from the extensive discussion above about this. Some of his spokespeople, trying to clarify what he meant, said "the ban would apply to Muslims from terrorist countries" and "nothing has changed". Both he and his spokespeople have repeatedly refused to

365:

Donald Trump said today it "wouldn't bother me" if Scottish Muslims went to the United States — seeming to move away from the temporary ban on all foreign Muslims going to the United States that he has called for throughout his presidential campaign. In interviews at his golf course in Aberdeen,

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Trump later modified his position by stating that the temporary ban would apply to people originating from countries with a proven history of terrorism against the United States or its allies. Trump has said that the ban would be lifted once the government has perfected its ability to screen out

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P.S. It may be "pretty clear" to you that "Trump is not referring to banning all foreign Muslims any longer" - but it was not clear to the authors of these references (note the headlines "Did Donald Trump just soften his Muslim ban proposal?"and "Has Donald Trump lifted his Muslim ban?"), or to

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Every one of those citations makes it clear that 1) he is still talking about MUSLIMS, particularly those from terrorist countries - not Christians or Jews or atheists from those countries, just Muslims; and 2) he has not withdrawn his proposed ban on all Muslims; the closest he has come was a

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Trump's signature economic policies are the raising of tariffs on China and Mexio, across-the-board tax cuts, the dismantling of the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, the repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare"), and opposition to changing

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Content must be agreed in discussion before exact text can be. It's clear he's suggesting to temporarily ban immigrants from certain "terrotories", until "extreme vetting" can screen out "radical Muslim ". Plus he previously denied it is a "proposal", and it isn't on his campaign website under

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Personally I prefer the wording I proposed above - "a proposal to temporarily ban foreign Muslims, particularly those from countries with a proven history of terrorism, from entering the United States until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists" - over the

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To ensure that material about living people is written neutrally to a high standard, and based on high-quality reliable sources, the burden of proof is on those who wish to retain, restore, or undelete the disputed material. When material about living persons has been deleted on good-faith BLP

1916:

That could be one definition, but it's not Trump's definition. (Would he accept anything "official" from the Obama administration?) His definition is much broader and much less specific: "areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our

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Then, in an interview with the DailyMail.com, he seemed to expand on a shift away from focusing on religion toward a country-specific policy. The presumptive Republican presidential nominee seemed to say that he may allow Muslim immigrants from certain "terror countries" after applying extra

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I felt that you violated the spirit of the sanctions - which include not making changes to the article while the issue is under discussion, waiting for consensus instead of acting on your own belief, and avoiding any kind of edit warring. But based on the wording placed on this article by an

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P.S. I see that someone has already restored the phrase; that makes five to one in favor of including it. They restored the existing version; I will replace it with the more consensus-supported version above. Then we should leave it alone until consensus is reached here to do something else.

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That sentence in the lede begins with "His platform includes...." It's intended to reflect his current positions. The following reliable sources all indicate that he changed his stance from temporarily banning Muslims to temporarily banning people from countries with a history of terrorist

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from entering the United States until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists." (the current wording) and "a proposal to temporarily ban immigration to the United States from countries with a proven history of terrorism against the United States, until the

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I agree that if anything has to go, it's Dodd-Frank and CPA first. "He is pro-life and opposes same-sex marriage" is short enough not to took up too much stuff. He's talked a lot about reducing environmental regulations, so while the sentence can be trimmed, I think it's noteworthy enough.

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Isn't it weird to specifically mention that a presidential campaign receives media coverage and int attention? While I do consider it true that Trump has gotten 2008 Obama-like coverage and attention, it doesn't feel important enough for a lede, especially when core issues like wanting to

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points. I do think we need to retain the Muslim ban in the lede since it was so widely publicized and controversial (I'd like to add the "Wall", too, but that's another discussion for another day), but let's not make it part of his "platform". How about two sentences, something like this:

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June 24–25, 2016: ... At one point Trump tells reporters that he'd be fine with Muslims from Scotland or the U.K. coming to the U.S. Trump later takes to Twitter to offer a clarification: "We must suspend immigration from regions linked with terrorism until a proven vetting method is in

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To illustrate: Think about an area that's within the jurisdiction of the Government of South Sudan but under the effective control of the janjaweed force supported by the Government of (north) Sudan. It would be part of a terrorist "territory" or "area" but not a terrorist "country".

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gonna allow the people to come into our country. And we're gonna have a thing called "Extreme vetting." And if people wanna come in, there's gonna be extreme vetting. We're gonna have extreme vetting. They're gonna come in and we're gonna know where they came from and who they are.

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Not only is "Mexican" not a race, neither are "Latino" or "Hispanic". Not only are "Latino" and "Hispanic" not races, neither are even ethnicities. The media wildly ignores this and labels all three as "race". Amazing how the media supports drama and lack of education. Even PBS.

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I don't think anyone is calling him, the individual, a racist. What they are saying in these sources is that some of the things he SAYS are racist. But either way, I generally feel that name-calling or inflammatory labeling like this does not belong in a Knowledge article.

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If the specific Politico article is bad, I think it's fair to delete it (and the same applies to any source, regardless of how respected the outlet happens to be). That was not the editor's complaint though. Nor did he complain that Politico wasn't mainstream enough.

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from those countries (as verified by his spokesperson). And his proposal was not later "changed", it was maybe "refocused". I have deleted the reference to non-interventionist from the sentence, per talk below. I think we are close to agreement. How about something

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The tense is only wrong if he has actually abandoned his "ban Muslims" proposal. Which he has persistently refused to do. But let's stick to what should go in the article. Please state, in a phrase or sentence, what you think should go in the lead on this subject.

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then the attacker's BLP usually can accommodate the material more easily than the attackee's BLP without issues of undue weight arising. Also, the proposed language is way too vague, since it doesn't give any clue about which races he's allegedly racist against.

424:"I don't want people coming in — I don't want people coming in from certain countries," Trump told the Daily Mail. "I don't want people coming in from the terror countries. You have terror countries! I don't want them, unless they're very, very strongly vetted. 626:

Donald Trump appears to be backing away from one of his ... proposals—banning Muslims from entering the U.S.... Since ... May ... he has gradually moved away from a blanket religious ban and toward a more nuanced policy targeting countries with a record of

1935:." Yes -- much as presidents Carter, Reagan, and Clinton got to designate countries as "state sponsors of terrorism" (in aggregate, 5 countries: 3 Muslim, 2 non-Muslim), and much as President Obama gets to (currently, 3 countries: Syria, Sudan, and Iran). 3111:

and PolitiFact: as is well known, newspapers maintain a separation between their news side and their editorial side. The fact that a newspaper's editorial board and editorial page may take a certain view says absolutely nothing about the quality of the

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Source #5 is calling him, the individual, racist, in my mind. The other sources are more referring to his statements (as far as my Internet connection can show them, that is). These two things are not the same (inferring the first from the second is

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I see where you're coming from but I think it's a mistake to pander to editors who don't have a leg to stand on. It might encourage disingenuous claims, and make editors let disingenuous editors influence them as they consider contributing content.

2270:"His platform includes measures to combat illegal immigration, reform U.S.–China trade, and augment standards for the admission of travelers and asylum-seekers from designated areas (which may include Saudi Arabia, Kalmykia, or Syria, for example)." 1834:" isn't an encyclopedic term. So: We've established that using the term makes the text less accessible to the average editor -- who (like me) would need to consult a legal or business dictionary to find out what the term means in Standard English. 744:

trifling (or perhaps even a bit juvenile for a seasoned journalist to report on at any great length?). What really matters is, what is the candidate saying in his most authoritative (i.e., most fully amended) platform. Not, what did he say last

1786:(Just in case this was a real comment rather than your usual sarcasm): The plagiarism was big news about Melania and is in her article. It's also the convention article. There's no justification for mentioning it in the Donald Trump article. -- 2492:

suspend immigration from areas or territories of the world where there is "a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our allies," until the U.S. has developed better vetting methods to screen out potential terrorists.

3326:, it is supposed to be mainstream (at least if it's used to support a challenged statement in a BLP). And some editors would reasonably question whether Politico is mainstream or whether a particular article in Politico has been fact-checked. 2803:

Good work, IHTS, I endorse this wording. A couple of minor tweaks: don't capitalize Veterans Care. And instead of tax reform it would be more accurate to say "tax reductions"; that was certainly all he talked about in his acceptance speech.

440:

countries) until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists. His statements in interviews and at campaign rallies have often been controversial, with the rallies sometimes accompanied by protests or riots.

2021:

statement after the Orlando shootings ("I will suspend immigration from areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies") Has he said something more definitive since then?

2639:

The recent wording that he has used, both in writing and in speeches, and has been widely publicized is 'suspend immigration from areas of the world when there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our

1348:

The following was removed from the lede, but I suggest to move it to the body, under the 'Other personal information" section or something of the like. I don't want to reinstate contentious content without getting consensus though:

192:

Huh? In what POSSIBLE sense is this a BLP violation? Let's not throw that accusation around unless it has some basis in reality. As for the possible wording, we have two choices at the moment: "a proposal to temporarily ban foreign

3278:

P.S. My philosophy, which is also the case in the section below this: If somebody objects to a source, don't go to the mat over it, just find another source. If the material is worth including here, there will always be multiple

3211:

In the discussion above, I have proposed a revision of the consensus version that responds to many of the issues you have a problem with. Take a look at it, and please respond there so that the discussion stays all in one place.

2645:

Yes; and because it's been so widely publicized, there ought to be at least one source, somewhere, that can be given to verify that it's been adopted as part of his campaign platform. If not, it has to get tagged and towed, per

3159:

because the the "words" "are" "in" "quotation marks", doesn't mean the ambiguity and misleadingness has disappeared. Also, no mention of ISIS, which has been a major part of his campaign for a long time. What in the world is a

427:"People coming from the terror states — and you know who I'm talking about when I talk about the terror states — we are going to be so vigilant you wouldn't believe it and frankly a lot will be banned," Trump later told CNN. - 382:"I want terrorists out. I want people that have bad thoughts out. I would limit specific terrorist countries and we know who those terrorist countries are," Trump said, again not specifying which countries would be included. - 1655:. My general view about name-calling, denunciations, and other attacks on a BLP subject is that if an editor really really thinks they belong in Knowledge then we should not censor the material, but rather we should follow 3593:

I agree with Melanie's points above. I think the current language that's being formulated in the discussions above reasonably represents his political positions for the lede. I'm concerned that adding more would become

2982:

refrain from using it. If we said we cannot use any media that is linked to any parent company which support one candidate or the other, then we would have virtually no media remaining. So the answer is an obvious "no!".

2091:

He now says "territories" without defining what characterizes those territories; and he also talks about "territories and terror states and terror nations". How would you modify the sentence to get this new wording in?

1848:

Does anyone here believe that the average reader wouldn't readily understand what any of those terms means in Standard English? ('Areas of the world', 'proven history', 'terrorism against the U.S.', or 'their allies'?)

2894:

Huh? I don't think Trump himself uses the term "terrorist countries" much. It seems much more appropriate for us to use the wording he himself uses, doesn't it? That was pretty much the direction this discussion took.

3249:

that was removed should be restored. The editor who made the accusation has made a series of ridiculous and inexplicable pro-Trump edits to this page, which casts further doubt on his accusation being in good faith.

3755:. "Mr Trump repeated many of the themes that have driven his populist campaign: illegal immigration, global trade, corporate corruption, violence towards police officers, and the rise of radical Islamist terrorism." 3642:

abolish/renegotiate NATO, WTP and raise tariffs are not mentioned (things that go against bipartisan consensus, has global implications and gets plenty of attention). The protests/riots feel a bit passe in my view.

2130:("Grammar"): "The present tense primarily denotes acts ... or states that occur in the present... The past tense denotes an act ... or state that occurred or existed at some explicit or implicit point in the past." 2046:

Donald Trump: So you call it territories. OK? We're gonna do territories. We're gonna not let people come in from Syria that nobody knows who they are. Hillary Clinton wants 550 percent more people to come in than

1968:

interview, Trump said " territories", not "countries". And it was clear "territories" meant to replace "Muslims", so, the lead is now misrepresentative of his most recent proposal. (Is the lead intending to give a

160:(June 13, 2016): "I will suspend immigration from areas of the world where there’s a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies until we fully understand how to end these threats." 2837:. I changed "tax reductions" to "tax cuts" (originally chose "tax reform" to incorporate tax code simplification, but cuts prob carries more weight), and kept the more common word "countries" (= "nations"). Ok, 1161:

Articles go into detail about how and when the pseudonym was used. There is more to the story than just "Trump used a pseudonym". I don't think CSD is appropriate, but you can take to AfD if you feel strongly.

723:

support the information that "his platform includes ... a proposal to temporarily ban foreign Muslims". Indeed, they would seem more to contradict it. For this reason, I'm removing the information forthwith.

707:

Many readers are intensely interested in this controversy -- including Muslims living in England! We owe them the best available information as judged by its authority, accuracy/verifiability, and currency.

477:

has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists. His statements in interviews and at campaign rallies have often been controversial, with the rallies sometimes accompanied by protests or riots.

690:! According to BBC News and other top-ranked authorities, Trump is currently indicating he would not ban persons based on religion. Rather, he's openly saying he would ban persons based on national origin. 366:

Scotland, Trump went further, saying that the ban would be focused on "terrorist" countries, shifting from his previous proposal of "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States." -

3432:

My apologies. Clearly the signature issue wasn't trivial to those engaged in it. and I shouldn't have brought it up because it blurred my point: not to take a stand about things that DON'T really matter.

3040:

have an ownership; the question is whether the paper has "a reputation for fact checking and accuracy". Politifact does have that reputation. It is widely quoted and respected by media of all stripes. --

1268:

I removed the speedy deletion tag saying the article was under development and asking for 24 hours before re-tagging. However, the article is going to have to demonstrate significance by then. --

569:... I will suspend immigration from areas of the world when there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies, until we understand how to end these threats. 3769:. "His speech ... offered scant detail... He wants to ... in some cases block altogether, like Trans-Pacific Partnership... vow to deport an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants." 3025:

bias. I think the consensus at Knowledge is to use any reliable source even if it has a known (or suspected bias). This forces us to cite dueling sources on occasion; is this right, guys? --

2753:

As it happens, I came across a preeminently reliable source that could (randomly) be taken as representative of the body of preeminently reliable sources on Trump's platform. From BBC News,

202:, particularly those from countries with a proven history of terrorism, from entering the United States until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists." -- 435:

It's pretty clear that Trump is not referring to banning all foreign Muslims any longer. So to say that in the lead to his bio is inaccurate. Instead I think we could say something like:

3329:

These five sources are the most mainstream as measured by circulation: Reuters, AP, BBC News, Time, WSJ. And their news articles are usually fact-checked. (The opinion pieces are not.) --

2508:

I think timestamps are too detailed for lede. And picking/choosing only a couple of the major platform positions is ... according to whom? Anyway here's my input for suggested lede text:

3386:

relentlessly bashed me over the default long-standing size for no valid reasons, mocked and ridiculed, extending the thread without end. And opened a WP:EWN. And reverted almost daily.)

2003:

In the interview, Trump insisted that word "territories" be used to describe, to replace other description that others object to. (You seem to be ignoring that. It has to be pertinent.)

2211:

Already replied above what is clearly the content. If you disallow Trump to modify his suggestion by keeping forefront what he said in the past, then ending up puzzled is no surprise.

2254:: Trump is known for changing his position one or more times in a single spoken sentence! So I personally would use (or believe) only a statement he's made in writing (or under oath). 3508:

He is pro-life, opposes same-sex marriage and has called for revoking an IRS rule that prohibits tax-exempted Churches and other non-profits from campaigning on behalf of candidates.

2605:. The relevant part of the main clause in the sentence closely paraphrases the corresponding text in one of Trump's seven official position papers. And Trump is said to be perhaps 3196:

It's not perfect, I know. And please don't be rude and attack me. But could we at least work together on changing the lead from here as the current one has many issues. Thanks!

1865:

fact use that phrase in the body of the text. And we can use the shorthand he and his staffers use, "terrorist countries" (in quotation marks), which fits better in the lede. --

2554:) any statement about Trump that's likely to get challenged must have an inline citation everywhere it's mentioned in the lead. So it looks like we may have some work to do. -- 3472:

I really don't think Politico is sufficiently reliable for BLPs. Particularly in the case of the US election. If it wasn't a BLP issue I'd be indifferent but not in this case.

2036:

Oh, OK, you're talking about his joint interview last Sunday with Mike Pence. Here is the exchange that you think makes it clear that territories was meant to replace Muslims:

609:

The presumptive Republican presidential nominee ... propos that the United States suspend immigration from areas of the world where there is "a proven history of terrorism."

375:

Trump also indicated on Saturday that his ban is not ironclad and declined to answer directly in an interview with CNN whether his ban would extend to all foreign Muslims.

915:

later: The ban was only for nations “tied to Islamic terror.” Then ... last weekend, Mr. Trump said he would allow Muslims from allies like the United Kingdom to enter...”

3668:". (The information has now become so self-evident that continuing to include it the lead could be perceived by at least some readers as an insult to their awareness.) -- 2569:

Agree w/ striking the parenthetical (the lede is no place for chronicling the evolution of a suggestion). (I anticipated MelanieN would object if "Muslim" were dropped.)

1491: 969:

some ideas, and here they are: (a) ban Muslims one way or another, (b) ban abortion, (c) take relatives of potential terrorists as hostages (well, that is exactly what

3089:

And neither has been alleged as a problem with Politifact, so maybe we can end this discussion? Clearly there is consensus that Politifact can be used as a source. --

3127:. I have seen no evidence at all that the Poynter Institute "openly endorses" or "donates" to any political candidate, and claims to the contrary are irresponsible. 401:

When CBS News asked Trump, on a tour of his Aberdeen golf course, whether he would allow Muslims from Scotland or Great Britain into the U.S., Trump shook his head.

3192:

and suspending immigration from countries that have been compromised by terrorism until the government has perfected its ability to screen out potential terrorists.

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We don't actually need the Politico reference. I've restored the material, without the Politico reference - and added the other editor's new material as well. --

407:

It seemed to be a softening of Trump's initial call, made in December, for a "total and complete shutdown" of all Muslims attempting to step foot on U.S. soil. -

3762:. "Here are five policy areas where Mr Trump has bucked the Republican line. Gay rights ... National security ... Immigration ... Trade ... Foreign policy ..." 2478:"augment standards for the admission of travelers and asylum-seekers from designated areas (which may include Saudi Arabia, Kalmykia, or Syria, for example)" 2197:

what he means by parsing partial sentences in interviews. So I'll ask you too: please, tell me what you make of this - and what you think we should say. --

1719:

Screw that. Why do editors who are unabashed haters of Trump get to steer the content of this supposedly neutral article? It's a joke. It just defies NPOV.

1464: 3177: 2784:

Including: recapturing manufacturing jobs, rebuilding infrastructure, modernizing the military, reforming education, cutting waste, national debt, etc.)

2018: 897:

newspaper republishes a passage from another newspaper's headline; it reprints relevant passages from the story itself, under its own headline. Nor does

730:

he's previously proposed! Nor do most other political figures (e.g., Bill Clinton or George Bush). It would amount to acknowledging they made a mistake.

2670:"His platform includes measures to ... increase standards for the admission of refugees, asylum-seekers, and other noncitizens from designated areas." 2044:

Lesley Stahl: (to Pence) --in December you tweeted, and I quote you, "Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional."

153: 274: 3169: 2760:"Here are five policy areas where Mr Trump has bucked the Republican line. Gay rights . National security . Immigration . Trade . Foreign policy ." 1150:

I marked for CSD, if it's notable, it can be included in this article. But we don't need an entire article just saying that Trump used a pseudonym.

740:

Although many publications do dwell on such matters, the most authoritative ones (BBC, WSJ, and the like) try to avoid them as being, shall we say,

2999:

This comes up at times on politics pages and is AFAIK always rejected because the Tampa Bay Times is a reputable, reliable source by any standard.

1189:

This one pseudonym isn't enough to support an article But I suggest you expand it to include his other pseudonyms, including John Miller which got

936: 2744:

problem here. (Strive to treat each aspect of the subject with a weight appropriate to its weight in the body of reliable sources on the subject.)

2358: 1535:), I am dubious that #5 has enough "source strength" to justify putting such a strong statement in the lead section, the others most likely don't. 3535: 3319: 2655: 2551: 2369: 1838: 349:— it is not meant to reflect ever single variation in phrasing. As VM notes, Trump has never retracted his previous proposed "ban on Muslims." 3497:

not religious, to apply to “areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies.”"

935:

repeal of the religious test in favor of a national test. Most, including Trump's own staff, thought it was a modification of the Muslim ban.

585: 3107:

PolitiFact is an invaluable source - and any suggestion that somehow it is meaningfully "biased" against Trump is utter nonsense. As to the

1289:

Well, shoot, AB, I thought YOU were going to use the additional time I gave you to expand the article! Turned out I had to do it myself. --

726:

That "Trump has never retracted his previous proposed 'ban on Muslims'" is almost a truism; as a matter of principle, Trump doesn't retract

3802: 2482:"suspend immigration from areas of the world when there is a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe, or our allies". 3513:

Trump rejects the scientific consensus on climate change, and promotes greater use of fossil fuels and weakening environmental regulation.

2406:

America's biggest ally is Muslim. (And the ally's biggest city is the biggest city in Europe.) And there's a proven history of terrorism "

939:

is how the AP tried to analyze his current position: basically, nobody knows what he thinks or what he is calling for. And I loved this:

264: 3821: 3124: 1603:, we should not say "is often described as," which is a conclusion of the editor not found in any of the sources and therefore violates 3119:: the newspaper has won ten Pulitzer Prizes and is the largest-circulating newspaper in the third- or fourth-largest state. Moreover, 2300: 500:

Trump's spokespeople, or even to Trump himself, who refused to reply to a direct question on that subject - as I pointed out above. --

1566:

multiple times in the past. At this time, calling Trump a racist is not supported by the sourcing required for such a weighty claim.

2094:"(which he later said would focus on persons from "terror states")"? "(which he later said would focus on persons from territories)" 1544: 2144:'s credibility. Both IHTS and I did (independently) find a clear statement of Trump's policy here; and I for one have a very poor " 1883:

Just passing by, I for one did not know of "terrorist countries" technical meaning. I assumed it was just a term made up by media.

254: 2265:

So, here's how I would modify the sentence, to bring it into accord with the candidate's historic written (not spoken) platform:

2610:

self-contradictory in important parts that no reasonable person could claim to have believed and been (significantly) misled by

1383: 748:

Look at it this way: Has any high-quality source proposed that Trump was more candid or truthful last year than he is this year?

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I've compiled the most relevant passages from the four most mainstream English-language news media, as measured by circulation.

620: 2362: 1822:" should be understood as meaning countries "where the perpetrators operate or seek refuge." See 18 U.S.C. § 2331. And yet 525:

OK. It looks like your proposal in talkquotes above is as close as we're going to get to a reasonable outcome. Let's do it.

1907: 978: 2471:- a milquetoast, not-very-notable proposal. So let's either leave that phrase alone or start a separate discussion on it. 2967: 97: 89: 84: 72: 67: 59: 1052:

Dervorguilla, you had no right to remove that phrase, and in fact you violated the Discretionary Sanctions by doing so.

850:

Dervorguilla, you had no right to remove that phrase, and in fact you violated the Discretionary Sanctions by doing so.

291: 127: 2463:

Dervorguilla - Thanks for trying to come up with some actual wording. First of all, I don't agree with your changing

416:

Trump told reporters that it "wouldn't bother" him if a Muslim immigrated to the U.S. from a country like Scotland.

3120: 464:

retracted his proposal to ban all Muslims, and that his proposal to ban "people" from terrorist countries refers to

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IMO those passages are more important than platform details, which are spelled out in great detail in the text. --

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while improving veterans' care, opposing trade agreements that are unfavorable to American workers, and tackling

3080: 1665: 1612: 959: 227: 1437: 3452: 3391: 2842: 2812:) 19:33, 23 July 2016 (UTC) P.S. And if somebody objects to "nations" he has also said "areas of the world". -- 2789: 2725: 2574: 2518: 2216: 2183: 2008: 1978: 1903: 1710: 1627: 988: 974: 3075:

Bias and reliability are two separate issues. Sources must be reliable, Knowledge articles must be neutral.

2874:

This does look like a reasonable compromise -- to us, the 3 editors still contributing to the discussion at "

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concern that we're overweighting his immigration policy, but this does look like a reasonable compromise. --

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countries! I don't want them, unless they're very, very strongly vetted," he said, according to NBC News. -

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Oh, wow, thank you so much. You've shortened my forever-long "to do" list by a notch. Much appreciated! ---

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Reuters recently published a limited compilation. The writers mentioned their frustration with the task.

3712: 3693: 3661: 3643: 3614: 3580: 3566: 3527: 3415: 3360: 3346: 3315: 3296: 3250: 3056: 3000: 2821: 2665:

Meanwhile, here's some text that more closely approximates the language in the relevant position paper:

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Here's his plan for immigration reform, which he wrote down nearly a year ago and hasn't changed since:

1982: 1858: 1757: 1311: 1284: 1249: 1219: 1184: 1163: 1130: 603: 3773:

known to have the financial resources needed to pay for top-quality journalists and fact-checkers.) --

1917:

allies". I think it's pretty clear that he, and he alone, gets to decide what countries those are. --

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as judged by our own arguments (however logical) that Trump's statement is confusing or misleading.

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Refusing to rent to black apartment applicants is a racist action, not just a racist statement. --

3808: 3632: 3599: 3555: 3438: 3372: 3284: 3269: 3227: 3217: 3197: 3094: 3045: 2941: 2900: 2817: 2809: 2705: 2545: 2499: 2372:. "Statements about living persons that are likely to be challenged must have an inline citation 2202: 2168: 2101: 2078: 2027: 1994: 1922: 1885: 1870: 1791: 1752:

Not a rapist, not a racist, large hands, large signature. Everything's placid in the lily pond.--

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Can you provide a link to the 60 minutes interview you are talking about? I've been quoting his

3666:

Trump's presidential campaign has received extensive media coverage and international attention

2308: 3774: 3697: 3669: 3419: 3330: 3185: 3030: 2914: 2881: 2864: 2770: 2678: 2555: 2449: 2377: 2319: 2149: 1942: 1850: 1774: 1727: 1685: 1588: 1088: 1055: 1047: 992: 921: 853: 766: 752: 646: 633: 130:, the content should NOT have been restored unless/until there was consensus to do so in Talk. 47: 17: 1607:. I would point out too that Mexican is not a race but a nationality, just as American is. 2988: 2651: 1753: 1702: 1600: 113:

restored content which is no longer accurate (and replaced content which is accurate). The

1599:

Most of the sources do not describe Trump as a racist, but his comments. Furthermore, per

1562:, but rather has a byline attributing it to one columnist who has been criticized for some 275:

Trump Calls To Ban Immigration From Countries With 'Proven History Of Terrorism' (The Hill)

3128: 2959: 2697: 2441:

Territory that is under the effective control and authority of a belligerent armed force".

2336: 1559: 1532: 1151: 350: 3381:

The minuscule sz the sig was shrunk to wasn't "a trivial matter" in my view, obviously.

3123:, owned not by a for-profit media company, but by a nonprofit school of journalism, the 3608:

I understand the concerns but think the existing lede could be trimmed for the sake of

2658:("Any statements about living persons that are challenged must have an inline citation 2419: 1740: 1361: 970: 1677:- Are we actually going to need an ivote here? This is ridiculous. Close as "Absurd". 3759: 3628: 3595: 3551: 3434: 3405: 3382: 3368: 3311: 3280: 3265: 3213: 3164:

Also "tax cuts" is insanely low-info and shouldn't even be included. I propose this:

3090: 3041: 2910: 2896: 2813: 2805: 2754: 2701: 2602: 2495: 2423: 2251: 2198: 2164: 2134: 2097: 2074: 2023: 1990: 1918: 1866: 1787: 1604: 1516: 1305: 1290: 1269: 1213: 1198: 1084: 1070: 1043: 945: 845: 804: 789: 774: 687: 650: 526: 522: 501: 486: 444: 326: 304: 277: 203: 131: 1054:" Please educate me about the particular Sanctions section I violated. Thank you. -- 751:(Nonetheless, I think we were wise to spend some time investigating this matter.) -- 558: 3825: 3782: 3720: 3705: 3677: 3651: 3636: 3622: 3603: 3588: 3574: 3559: 3481: 3456: 3442: 3427: 3395: 3376: 3354: 3338: 3304: 3288: 3273: 3258: 3235: 3221: 3205: 3131: 3098: 3084: 3064: 3049: 3034: 3026: 3008: 2992: 2971: 2949: 2922: 2904: 2889: 2846: 2793: 2778: 2729: 2709: 2686: 2578: 2563: 2522: 2503: 2385: 2220: 2206: 2187: 2172: 2157: 2105: 2082: 2031: 2012: 1998: 1950: 1926: 1911: 1893: 1874: 1795: 1781: 1761: 1747: 1734: 1714: 1692: 1669: 1647: 1631: 1616: 1592: 1584: 1574: 1563: 1548: 1524: 1368: 1325: 1298: 1277: 1263: 1233: 1206: 1177: 1156: 1144: 1096: 1078: 1063: 1000: 982: 953: 929: 861: 812: 797: 782: 760: 658: 641: 534: 509: 494: 452: 353: 334: 312: 285: 231: 211: 139: 2467:- something he has been completely consistent on and repeats in every speech - to 1438:"Paul Ryan rips Donald Trump remarks as 'textbook definition of a racist comment'" 2059:

Donald Trump: --no, I-- call it whatever you want. We'll call it territories, OK?

909:

How Donald Trump keeps changing his mind on abortion, torture and banning Muslims

2984: 154:

Trump Calls To Ban Immigration From Countries With 'Proven History Of Terrorism'

46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

1129:

given coverage of Trump's use of this name. Improvements/expansion welcome. ---

3322:, a reliable source isn't required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Per 2437:

A geographical area included within a particular government's jurisdiction"; "

1384:"Paul Ryan Calls Donald Trump's Attack on Judge 'Racist,' but Still Backs Him" 2427: 1938: 1899: 2628:

It's basically boilerplate from a position paper, probably written by staff.

1357:

individual by, among others, various politicians, news media, and academics.

852:" Please spell out the discretionary sanction that I violated. Thank you. -- 961:

is pretty much instructive. It shows some "common denominators" in all his

460:

Your quotes are the exact same ones I was referring to, when I said he has

3404:. I ought to acknowledge that what he says here is not wholly unmerited, 2677:

Here "noncitizen" = anyone who's required to get a visa for admission. --

1644: 3411:

The matter was resolved. No blood, no foul. Let's not bring it up again.

3055:

problem with the Washington Times is that it's rubbish and unreliable.

2422:. Under Secretary for Civilian Security, Democracy & Human Rights, 649:, are you OK with the wording in the last set of talk-quotes above? -- 345:

I agree with MelanieN and Volunteer Marek on this point. The lead is a

255:

Trump Shifts Muslim Ban to Focus on Only 'Terrorist' Nations (ABC News)

199: 194: 958:

I agree with you and think last article in NYT quoted by Dervorguilla

1937:

Under Secretary for Civilian Security, Democracy & Human Rights,

1354: 3613:

sometimes accompanied by protests or riots." could be deleted IMO.

1766:

Nothing about speech plagiarism? It was really, really big news...

564:

Here are five key lines from his speech – and what they could mean.

3147: 2124:

His platform includes ... a proposal ... (which he later said...).

901:

scholarly work ever cite a headline as an authority for a claim.

3767:

As Republicans anoint Trump, party grapples with identity crisis

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with a friendly amendment to strike out the parenthetical. See

2465:"opposition to "unfair" trade agreements such as NAFTA and TPP" 2416:

America's newest ally is Muslim too. (And it's also in Europe.)

2178:"Positions", so "idea" or "suggestion" is a better descriptor. 737:

embarrassing question in a straightforward manner -- or at all.

3151: 2755:"US Election: What Would a Donald Trump Presidency Look Like?" 2368:

Note that the clause is supported by the inline citation, per

1465:"Poll: Most young people dislike GOP's Trump, say he's racist" 157: 25: 3753:

Donald Trump promises security and prosperity as US president

3579:

I think we can fit most of it in if we use concise language.

3760:

US Election: What would a Donald Trump presidency look like?

3142:

There current lead seems to have a lot of issues. It reads:

1933:...He, and he alone, gets to decide what countries those are 3741:

So far I've found only two relatively current compilations:

2595:

I doubt if even Trump would recognize that as his position.

1818:

In the context of international terrorism, a term such as "

485:

version with the parentheses, but I won't insist on it. --

3503:

entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

3363:, you have my recommendation: don't make Knowledge into a 265:

Did Donald Trump just soften his Muslim ban proposal? (CSM

3711:

BPs), and abolishing/renegotiating NATO in the final BP.

2357:

But the parenthetical may need some rewording, to meet

1197:. That might (or might not) pass the notability test. -- 2541: 2376:

time they are mentioned, including within the lead." --

2301:"Immigration Reform That Will Make America Great Again" 1827: 733:

Nor does Trump in particular feel obligated to address

604:

After Florida shooting, Trump hardens stance on Muslims

290:

Also, the edit I referenced is a BLP violation because

110: 404:

That "wouldn't bother me," the billionaire responded.

2662:

time they are mentioned, including within the lead").

2620:"Trump Leaves Some on Wall Street Wary and Confused." 2618:

Looks like Reuters just scooped me on this analysis!

621:

Donald Trump back-pedals on banning Muslims from U.S.

260:

Donald Trump's shifting positions on Muslim ban (CNN)

3492:

foreign policy) for clarity and the correct weight:

172:"Read Donald Trump's Speech on the Orlando Shooting" 1841:, it's very important that the text in the lead be 1973:of his changing proposals? That would be absurd.) 1558:an opinion piece. It isn't even attributed by the 700:In his platform, Trump is unmistakably advocating 270:Has Donald Trump lifted his Muslim ban? (CBS News) 2962:. Nevertheless, you need to take this to RSN. -- 693:Muslims from England or Scotland: OK. Persons of 3146:Trump opposes "unfair" trade agreements such as 586:In his words: Donald Trump's evolving Muslim ban 3487:Proposal for content to be included in the lede 2650:("Any material challenged must be supported by 2133:Both the grammar and the meaning are in error, 1351: 559:'Orlando justifies my Muslim ban', says Trump 474: 437: 414: 399: 389: 373: 363: 303:This was clearly not adhered to in this case. 296: 119: 8: 3664:'s proposal that this passage be deleted: " 2935:Can we please refrain from using Politifact? 2476:On your proposed new immigration wording - 1830:shows he (quite reasonably!) believes that " 1705:adds his customary sarcastic comment/humor. 2051:Donald Trump: --who doesn't know what he's— 1839:MOS:INTRO § Provide an accessible overview 1411:"Why Donald Trump's racist remarks matter" 3017:Yeah, you may as well refrain from using 2548:(rm scrapped proposal, discussed in body) 2402:Some authoritative data & definitions 2140:Also, there is no need for you to attack 3400:I'm one of the two editors mentioned by 3176:, reforming healthcare by replacing the 1390:. The New York Times. The New York Times 987:Thank you for interpreting the article, 3801:Reddit contributors have compiled this 2288: 1374: 965:contradictory statements. He certainly 145: 2960:which has won multiple Pulitzer Prizes 2332: 2328: 2317: 2294: 2292: 1492:"Donald Trump is a bigot and a racist" 773:respect consensus, and so must you. -- 361:Excerpts from sources provided above: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3414:I otherwise agree with your reply to 3244:There is no reason to remove Politico 2940:refrain from using them from now on? 2299:Donald J Trump for President (2015). 2087:Here's what the lede currently says: 1382:Steinhauer, Jennifer (June 7, 2016). 7: 2955:What? Politifact is operated by the 1193:of publicity in May, and move it to 719:The four authorities cited above do 697:claimed religion from Syria: not OK. 3125:Poynter Institute for Media Studies 2410:" it. Terrorism by, in particular, 2053:Lesley Stahl: --so you're changing— 170:Ryan Teague Beckwith (2016-06-13). 2055:Donald Trump: --so we're going to— 1813: 24: 3314:'s comment is worth considering, 3168:His platform includes combatting 2765:If you analyze the '771 draft by 117:of the article currently states: 2828: 1239: 29: 2740:We do indeed have a nontrivial 2424:Foreign Terrorist Organizations 2057:Lesley Stahl: --your position. 1436:Walsh, Diedre (June 7, 2016). 1353:Trump is often described as a 1: 3172:by building a wall along the 2061:Lesley Stahl: So not Muslims? 1739:Well, it seems settled then. 1469:Big Story by Associated Press 1939:State Sponsors of Terrorism. 222:Melanie basically covers it. 2871:) 22:53, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2550:. Note, however, that (per 2428:State Sponsors of Terrorism 3841: 3341:05:50, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2876:Term 'terrorist countries' 2566:15:57, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 1814:Term 'terrorist countries' 1564:very questionable writings 1083:I appreciate the apology, 763:09:42, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 3826:18:06, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3783:03:41, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3721:01:31, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3706:01:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3678:01:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3652:01:07, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3637:00:54, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3623:00:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3604:00:34, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3589:23:48, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3575:23:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3560:23:23, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3482:04:21, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3457:01:21, 25 July 2016 (UTC) 3443:14:37, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3428:10:36, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3396:08:55, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3377:03:55, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3355:03:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3339:03:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3318:. Also consider that per 3305:03:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3289:02:20, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3274:02:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3259:00:53, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3236:22:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3222:22:19, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3206:22:01, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3132:21:32, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3099:18:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3085:18:50, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3065:18:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3050:18:32, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3035:18:04, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 3009:12:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2993:11:54, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2972:11:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2950:08:17, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2923:02:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2905:00:18, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2890:00:01, 24 July 2016 (UTC) 2847:21:59, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2822:19:36, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2794:09:27, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2779:08:06, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2730:04:02, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2710:00:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 2687:02:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 2623:05:14, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 2579:23:01, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 2564:05:14, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 2523:01:15, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 2504:15:54, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 2469:"reform U.S.–China trade" 2458:05:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 2386:14:20, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 2221:22:18, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2207:17:59, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2188:17:40, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2173:14:03, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2158:06:48, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2106:00:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2083:00:07, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 2032:23:45, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 2013:23:35, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1999:22:34, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1983:21:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1951:06:30, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1927:16:55, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1912:04:53, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1894:02:37, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1875:02:16, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1859:01:53, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 1796:18:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1782:08:07, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1762:08:03, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1748:07:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1735:07:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1715:05:44, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1693:05:02, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1670:04:53, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1648:02:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1632:02:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1617:02:05, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1593:23:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 1575:22:25, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 1549:21:52, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 1525:17:33, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1369:17:17, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1326:22:25, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 1299:22:01, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 1278:19:48, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1264:18:19, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1234:18:07, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1207:18:05, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1178:16:48, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1157:16:24, 21 July 2016 (UTC) 1145:23:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 1097:02:08, 22 July 2016 (UTC) 1079:14:15, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 1064:06:41, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 1001:05:46, 20 July 2016 (UTC) 983:02:20, 19 July 2016 (UTC) 954:15:46, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 930:15:02, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 862:15:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 813:14:26, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 798:14:14, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 783:14:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 761:08:40, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 659:04:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 642:04:16, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 535:03:48, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 510:00:00, 18 July 2016 (UTC) 495:23:36, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 453:23:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 354:22:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 335:22:19, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 313:21:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 286:21:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 232:21:15, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 212:20:58, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 140:19:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC) 1048:your reply to my comment 2444:Black's Law Dictionary. 1195:Donald Trump pseudonyms 1127:John Barron (pseudonym) 1121:John Barron (pseudonym) 3803:list of press coverage 1496:Washington Post Online 1359: 1125:I created the article 479: 442: 433: 413: 398: 388: 372: 301: 124: 3021:, well known for its 2049:Lesley Stahl: So you— 1498:. The Washington Post 122:potential terrorists. 106:BLP violation in lede 42:of past discussions. 3797:Long list of sources 3138:New speech, new lead 3019:The Washington Times 292:WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE 128:WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE 3178:Affordable Care Act 3170:illegal immigration 2715:"territories") ... 2439:occupied territory. 1904:My very best wishes 1902:. That's official. 1832:terrorist countries 1820:terrorist countries 1463:Lemire, Johnothan. 989:My very best wishes 975:My very best wishes 3174:U.S.–Mexico border 2978:Of course we will 2964:Somedifferentstuff 2632:Apparent consensus 2327:Unknown parameter 1837:As pointed out in 1824:Somedifferentstuff 1471:. Associated Press 1388:The New York Times 3540: 3526:comment added by 3226:Alright, thanks. 3186:Islamic terrorism 3180:, rebuilding the 2757:(July 21, 2016): 1898:I think he means 1892: 1891: 911:(June 29, 2016). 623:(June 28, 2016). 606:(June 14, 2016). 588:(June 28, 2016). 561:(June 14, 2016). 103: 102: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 18:Talk:Donald Trump 3832: 3824: 3815: 3811: 3713:Snooganssnoogans 3694:Snooganssnoogans 3662:Snooganssnoogans 3644:Snooganssnoogans 3615:Snooganssnoogans 3581:Snooganssnoogans 3567:Snooganssnoogans 3539: 3528:Snooganssnoogans 3520: 3416:Snooganssnoogans 3361:Snooganssnoogans 3347:Snooganssnoogans 3316:Snooganssnoogans 3297:Snooganssnoogans 3251:Snooganssnoogans 3057:Snooganssnoogans 3001:Snooganssnoogans 2859:. I maintain my 2836: 2832: 2831: 2652:inline citations 2614:he says in them. 2420:Member Countries 2363:WP:STICKTOSOURCE 2341: 2340: 2334: 2330: 2325: 2323: 2315: 2313: 2307:. Archived from 2305:DonaldJTrump.com 2296: 2122:From the lede: " 1890: 1884: 1779: 1772: 1743: 1732: 1725: 1701:be closed until 1690: 1683: 1573: 1508: 1507: 1505: 1503: 1487: 1481: 1480: 1478: 1476: 1460: 1454: 1453: 1451: 1449: 1433: 1427: 1426: 1424: 1422: 1409:Sakuma, Amanda. 1406: 1400: 1399: 1397: 1395: 1379: 1364: 1321: 1314: 1313:Another Believer 1309: 1288: 1285:Another Believer 1259: 1252: 1251:Another Believer 1247: 1243: 1242: 1229: 1222: 1221:Another Believer 1217: 1188: 1185:Another Believer 1173: 1166: 1165:Another Believer 1140: 1133: 1132:Another Believer 294:indicates that: 183: 182: 180: 179: 167: 161: 152:Detrow, Scott. 150: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3840: 3839: 3835: 3834: 3833: 3831: 3830: 3829: 3813: 3807: 3806: 3799: 3749:Financial Times 3521: 3489: 3474:Volunteer Marek 3365:WP:battleground 3246: 3140: 3121:it is, uniquely 3117:Tampa Bay Times 3109:Tampa Bay Times 2957:Tampa Bay Times 2937: 2829: 2827: 2344: 2326: 2316: 2311: 2298: 2297: 2290: 1900:these countries 1816: 1775: 1768: 1741: 1728: 1721: 1686: 1679: 1662:Anythingyouwant 1567: 1560:Editorial board 1512: 1511: 1501: 1499: 1490:Milbank, Dana. 1489: 1488: 1484: 1474: 1472: 1462: 1461: 1457: 1447: 1445: 1435: 1434: 1430: 1420: 1418: 1408: 1407: 1403: 1393: 1391: 1381: 1380: 1376: 1362: 1346: 1324: 1319: 1312: 1303: 1282: 1262: 1257: 1250: 1240: 1238: 1232: 1227: 1220: 1218:Great idea! --- 1211: 1182: 1176: 1171: 1164: 1143: 1138: 1131: 1123: 704:discrimination. 702:national-origin 224:Volunteer Marek 187: 186: 177: 175: 169: 168: 164: 151: 147: 108: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3838: 3836: 3798: 3795: 3794: 3793: 3792: 3791: 3790: 3789: 3788: 3787: 3786: 3785: 3770: 3763: 3756: 3742: 3730: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3726: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3688: 3687: 3686: 3685: 3684: 3683: 3682: 3681: 3680: 3656: 3655: 3654: 3577: 3542: 3541: 3515: 3514: 3510: 3509: 3505: 3504: 3499: 3498: 3488: 3485: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3462: 3461: 3460: 3459: 3418:'s comment. -- 3412: 3409: 3398: 3327: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3276: 3245: 3242: 3241: 3240: 3239: 3238: 3139: 3136: 3135: 3134: 3113: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3052: 3012: 3011: 2996: 2995: 2975: 2974: 2936: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2909:100% correct, 2801: 2800: 2799: 2798: 2797: 2796: 2763: 2762: 2761: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2689: 2675: 2674: 2673: 2672: 2671: 2663: 2643: 2635: 2624: 2615: 2588: 2587: 2586: 2585: 2584: 2583: 2582: 2581: 2528: 2527: 2526: 2525: 2485: 2484: 2473: 2472: 2446: 2442: 2417: 2415: 2404: 2403: 2399: 2398: 2397: 2396: 2395: 2394: 2393: 2392: 2391: 2390: 2389: 2388: 2366: 2343: 2342: 2314:on 2015-08-16. 2287: 2286: 2285: 2284: 2283: 2282: 2281: 2280: 2279: 2278: 2277: 2276: 2275: 2274: 2273: 2272: 2271: 2263: 2262: 2261: 2255: 2238: 2237: 2236: 2235: 2234: 2233: 2232: 2231: 2230: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2223: 2138: 2131: 2126:" But compare 2113: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2085: 2062: 2060: 2058: 2056: 2054: 2052: 2050: 2048: 2045: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2037: 2034: 1962: 1961: 1960: 1959: 1958: 1957: 1956: 1955: 1954: 1953: 1936: 1878: 1877: 1815: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1672: 1650: 1637: 1636: 1635: 1634: 1596: 1595: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1577: 1552: 1551: 1510: 1509: 1482: 1455: 1428: 1417:. MSNBC. MSNBC 1401: 1373: 1372: 1345: 1344:Alleged racism 1342: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1336: 1335: 1334: 1333: 1332: 1331: 1330: 1329: 1328: 1316: 1254: 1236: 1224: 1168: 1135: 1122: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1018: 1017: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1009: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1003: 971:Ramzan Kadyrov 932: 918: 917: 916: 907:. N.Y. Times: 878: 877: 876: 875: 874: 873: 872: 871: 870: 869: 868: 867: 866: 865: 864: 848:: You wrote, " 829: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 818: 817: 816: 815: 800: 749: 746: 738: 731: 724: 717: 705: 698: 691: 686:of the above, 670: 669: 668: 667: 666: 665: 664: 663: 662: 661: 630: 629: 628: 614: 612: 611: 610: 597: 595: 594: 593: 579: 577: 576: 575: 572: 565: 552: 542: 541: 540: 539: 538: 537: 515: 514: 513: 512: 497: 473: 472: 471: 470: 419: 359: 358: 357: 356: 340: 339: 338: 337: 253: 251: 250: 249: 248: 247: 246: 237: 236: 235: 234: 217: 216: 215: 214: 185: 184: 162: 144: 143: 107: 104: 101: 100: 95: 92: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3837: 3828: 3827: 3823: 3819: 3814:Pigsonthewing 3810: 3804: 3796: 3784: 3780: 3776: 3771: 3768: 3764: 3761: 3758:2. BBC News, 3757: 3754: 3750: 3746: 3743: 3740: 3739: 3738: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3731: 3722: 3718: 3714: 3709: 3708: 3707: 3703: 3699: 3695: 3692: 3689: 3679: 3675: 3671: 3667: 3663: 3660: 3657: 3653: 3649: 3645: 3640: 3639: 3638: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3625: 3624: 3620: 3616: 3611: 3607: 3606: 3605: 3601: 3597: 3592: 3591: 3590: 3586: 3582: 3578: 3576: 3572: 3568: 3563: 3562: 3561: 3557: 3553: 3548: 3547: 3546: 3545: 3544: 3543: 3537: 3533: 3529: 3525: 3517: 3516: 3512: 3511: 3507: 3506: 3501: 3500: 3495: 3494: 3493: 3486: 3484: 3483: 3479: 3475: 3458: 3454: 3450: 3446: 3445: 3444: 3440: 3436: 3431: 3430: 3429: 3425: 3421: 3417: 3413: 3410: 3407: 3403: 3399: 3397: 3393: 3389: 3384: 3380: 3379: 3378: 3374: 3370: 3366: 3362: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3352: 3348: 3343: 3342: 3340: 3336: 3332: 3328: 3325: 3321: 3317: 3313: 3310: 3306: 3302: 3298: 3293: 3292: 3290: 3286: 3282: 3277: 3275: 3271: 3267: 3263: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3256: 3252: 3243: 3237: 3233: 3229: 3228:ThiefOfBagdad 3225: 3224: 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