1932:, A part of the problem is that the scope of the article is poorly defined, making it difficult to identify what content is appropriate, so it has ended up as a coatrack for a wide range of tangentially related information and trivia. Part of that problem is the title. It refers to "frogmen", which is a poorly defined term, but commonly understood to be tactical military or paramilitary scuba divers. However the article content extends to civilian and non-political criminal activity, and defense against non-diving marine related coastal incursions. The first objective should be to decide on a better title and define the scope, and to ensure that the title matches the scope. I have not been able to do this. it is quite possible that we need to split the content into more than one article, each with a well defined scope to suit its title. Do you have any constructive suggestions? I would welcome one that omits the word "frogman" and uses a more clearly defined term, whether the scope is thereby expanded or contracted is less important. · · ·
720:, though most of these may indeed have references, and could possibly be sorted out once the citations are identified. For example, take this passage: "In most scenarios nowadays #1 or perhaps #2 is likelier, but in war or semi-war conditions or where there is a risk of terrorism #3 may be likelier than usual. A police-type technique that is reasonably safe on land may be risky to a scuba diver. The document nlsn leans strongly towards #1, and discusses only non-lethal weapons. But in war and semi-war situations there is more risk of #3 and the choice may be for lethal weapons." So far no source has been identified for the claim to "more risk of #3"-which is a real concern since it is contrary to what's written in the source that is identified, the nlsn. That's an example where a source is needed; if there isn't one, the claim can't be made in the article. My thought is to work through section by section, adding inline citations where they're called for, and fact tagging where necessary.
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1991:, We need to cover the general case in a rename, to include as much as possible of the salvageable content, but if there is enough suitable content a more specific article can be created by splitting it out later, and espionage is definitely within scope. Please feel welcome to add suitable content at any stage. Cheers, · · ·
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This suggests that "underwater" is zero gravity, which, if true, would make it hard to understand why a rock thrown into a pond will sink to the bottom. In any event, the likely disadvantage in trying to use "judo throws" underwater would be the lack of a hard surface to brace against when lifting or
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Now, all that being said, I admit it's possible for a spammer to submit a link that actually enhances an article while meeting the spammer's purpose of promoting his company. I've seen it happen in other articles, where a spammer posts something, someone else comes along to clean up, and the editors
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This is a really interesting article with pretty in-depth detail, and a good example of how wikipedia can be a great resource for information about topics of special interest that most general encyclopedia's can't or won't include. Some copy editing will be useful, however, to document claims in it
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Your effort to delatinize the language is commendable, however, considering the requirement for the material to be encyclopedic, to the point (non-literary and non-colloquial), my corrections were intended to achieve just that and to make it more in agreement with the USN Diving Manual. In all other
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The titles suggested above ("Defense against diver incursions" or "Defense against swimmer incursions") are fairly wide in scope. It is likely that such an article would need to be split at a later date as the content exceeds the recommended limits, and some types of content are likely to be more
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This article has had much of it removed recently and much of the content could be suitable for a non-wikipedian site. Most of the removed content was speculation and uncited information. Clearly the original writer was knowledgeable and had a great interest in the article however. If a dedicated
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Thanks for reping, For some reason I didn't get the notification for the first ping. I think the article should mostly concern military activity, as frogmen is near unused in the civilian world. But I also welcome a article without frogmen, perhaps a title relating to espionage.
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Links added due to a conflict of interest should be deleted. The only reason I came across this article in the first place was because I was cleaning up the mess left by this spammer in several other articles. The spammer has been warned but evidently pays no
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restore the link because it seems useful. The information in those links seems like it could be obtained from other sources, though. The article could include the informative content of those pages and do away with those external links. =
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to particular sources. The article has some fact tagging already, and there are other places where a cite seems needed as well, places that aren't tagged yet. Unfortunately many parts of the article appear to be
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Kongsberg link as it was added by a serial spammer. The target audience of the links is irrelevant, the purpose is still advertising and search
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m (47,394 bytes) (Revert. As I stated before, one link (projo.com) DOES NOT WORK, and two others exist for advertising, regardless of content. Please justify restoration on talk page.)
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Some of the content removed could be introduced into the article and many of the dead links could find a new citation. Perhaps a part of the article could warrant their own pages?
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671:") is an important matter concerning privacy of information and freedom to scuba dive, and if the only online ref to it is a blog, then the blog will have to be the ref.
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There can be much text on a screenful, and it is tedious to have to search and search for the only link within miles to a word that occurs several times in a screenful.
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asked the nation's largest scuba diver certification organizations to turn over the records of all divers certified since 1998. This is now done on an annual basis.
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Recommends: Visible patrol boats & barriers to deter sport divers & similar. Audio commands to submerged divers. 20–100 Hz sound as a severe irritant.
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Sorry, I deleted this again but didn't notice this message prior. It is hard to understand why an exception should be made to allow an EL to a blog
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The information below was removed from the article in case it may be useful reference when writing actual encyclopaedic content, which it is not.
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it is the only available reference making a particular claim. In most cases that would be a very strong additional condition deciding
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accessible than others in terms of reliable sources. This is probably a good thing, and in any case not yet a problem. · · ·
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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High intensity sound 20–100 Hz, & high intensity impulse noise, are promising. More testing is recommended.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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off-balancing the target, and of course the lack of a hard surface to land (if not slam) the target against.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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are not suitable except perhaps on surface within 5m (15 feet) of the boat, & then risky.
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suitable for inclusion. Therefore, the links fail the "what should be linked" criteria.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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standard, and to comprehensively cover the topic with quality encyclopedic articles.
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Which devices are suitable?, since many intruders will be innocent sport divers.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061007023826/http://enterprise.spawar.navy.mil:80/
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About various anti-riot and similar devices which are routinely used on land.
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Unless there is any objection within the next week I will be renaming to
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I feel that this (good) article is overlinked to simple terms such as
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respects, I would agree with you and stick to the Orwell's trusty
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No objections have been posted, so will be making the change as
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Noise from an underwater spark gap. Not a magic frequency like
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USA scuba diver information said to have been handed to the FBI
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Including results of experiments on submerged divers.
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Which effect on the suspect diver's body to aim for?;
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This article has been checked against the following
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1511:Fetal studies
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1494:Diver hearing
1492:
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1481:#Audible sound
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308:Low-importance
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1153:passive sonar
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482:criterion met
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110:Verifiability
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52:Learn to edit
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1855:source check
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1498:
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1385:
1367:. May cause
1363:intended to
1247:pepper spray
1226:pepper balls
1214:Projectiles
1062:
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1004:source check
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695:to allow it.
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592:open circuit
584:scuba diving
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209:WikiProjects
171:
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122:
94:
19:This is the
1329:Restraints
1314:Sending an
1101:copyrighted
971:Sourcecheck
803:referrals))
469:Structure:
403:Start-class
344:Start‑class
148:free images
31:not a forum
2107:Categories
1892:Report bug
1628:5.2.5.6.1
1600:5.2.5.5.3
1586:5.2.5.5.2
1572:5.2.5.5.1
1545:fish farms
1514:Effect on
1462:(1–20 Hz)
1460:Infrasound
1436:Ultrasound
1157:#Detection
1144:Detection
1041:Report bug
886:attention.
862:The links
786:User:Axlq
596:rebreather
340:Technology
1875:this tool
1868:this tool
1641:Star Trek
1416:bioeffect
1063:Ref. is
1024:this tool
1017:this tool
800:User:Axlq
772:User:Axlq
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2090:. · · ·
1881:Cheers.—
1699:Summary
1661:devices
1614:5.2.5.6
1558:5.2.5.5
1549:to keep
1537:5.2.5.4
1523:5.2.5.3
1505:5.2.5.2
1499:A graph.
1488:5.2.5.1
1479:And see
1440:And see
1369:epilepsy
1220:rounds,
1218:Bean bag
1103:", etc.
1030:Cheers.—
656:normally
649:"); but
570:Bo Basil
430:criteria
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1749:my edit
1727:), see
1672:compass
1516:fetuses
1386:A table
1147:Active
957:checked
914:my edit
878:with a
689:because
627:Finavon
606:Finavon
588:frogman
310:on the
199:C-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2073:· · ·
2021:divers
1645:phaser
1553:away.
1470:5.2.5
1453:5.2.4
1444:&
1429:5.2.3
1414:Which
1408:5.2.2
1392:5.2.1
1365:dazzle
1266:Tasers
1245:&
1083:title
965:failed
667:F.B.I.
661:After
205:scale.
126:Google
1551:seals
1149:sonar
1080:page
853:could
745:C d h
651:WP:EL
397:Start
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1976:talk
1972:- AH
1916:talk
1912:- AH
1664:The
1376:5.2
1354:5.1
1323:4.4
1273:4.3
1243:Mace
1233:4.2
1208:4.1
1110:iii
1077:sec
961:true
893:Axlq
845:fail
819:talk
749:talk
726:talk
701:talk
677:talk
665:the
663:9/11
601:and
594:and
568:, --
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1849:RfC
1819:to
1809:to
1799:to
1789:to
1779:to
1769:to
1710:51
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1357:17
1344:17
1326:14
1316:ROV
1309:12
1293:11
1276:10
1260:10
1093:ii
1069:PDF
998:RfC
975:).
963:or
948:to
938:to
928:to
693:not
302:Low
176:TWL
2109::
2096::
2079::
2063::
2044::
2029::
1997::
1978:)
1957::
1938::
1918:)
1862:.
1857:}}
1853:{{
1707:9
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1518:.
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1341:5
1336:.
1302:.
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1211:9
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1183:7
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1159:.
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1133:.
1123:1
1120:1
1011:.
1006:}}
1002:{{
973:}}
969:{{
864:do
857:is
839::
821:)
751:)
728:)
703:)
679:)
590:,
586:,
519:/
338::
156:)
54:;
1989::
1985:@
1974:(
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1930::
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1914:(
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1890:(
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675:(
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314:.
211::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
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