1103:. T his prison represents the round or crosswise building, for example, the prison "Crosses" in Sankt Petersburg represents some crosswise buildings. The central tower is in the center of such building, where the prison’s supervisor settles down. The prison’s supervisor has opportunity to observe through wide windows the life of prisoners in prison’s cells. This cells settle down on a building circle as in an aquarium or a zoo. Only one prisoner has to sit in each cell that to avoid bad influence from prisoners at each other. Walls between cells prevent to communication between prisoners. Therefore there is no danger of plot, planning of collective escape and planning of new crimes. This design of the building of prison is opposite to the principle of a dungeon.
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saying, and as a laymen unfamiliar with
Discipline and Punish, as well as other books written by Foucault, it gives a great glimpse into the crux of the books. However, the author/s often suggest what Foucault means, and extract exact passages from the books. As the laymen in this case, it is difficult to decipher the true meaning outside of playing "telephone". All of the citations come straight from the texts, which exemplifies that citing isn't an issue. Simply, getting to understand the full meaning of the author, Foucault. Outside of that, beautifully written.
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965:. Prison became place where prisoner carried out a long imprisonment term. These punishments in form of different imprisonment term began to be applied for different types of a crime and for different types of criminal men. This prison reform was carried out for period slightly less 1 century. The new codes were made during this time: in Russia – in 1769, in Prussia – in 1780, in Pennsylvania and Tuscany – in 1786, in Austria – 1788, in France – in 1791, 1808 . This new codes provided a new type of punishment.
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badly. As I learned
English with help of dictionaries and textbooks only 40 years old. I didn't talk to the American or the Englishman never. It is my big problem. I look for the qualified translator for my articles long ago. I have 17 articles in the Russian Knowledge (XXG). I want to translate and to place them to English Knowledge (XXG). I translated and placed in English Knowledge (XXG) 7 articles already from which editors deleted 3 articles because of bad quality of my translation.
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public execution was added with imprisonment and a prison’s daily routine in Europe and USA. The public execution and imprisonment became different types of punishment. Prison was earlier as place where investigator and executioner interrogated and tortured by criminal man, and then criminal man waited of execution in prison. Prison became place of a life and work for the prisoner according to the strict schedule after
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power relations between the genders in the US are undergoing a substantive change). I also tried to provide a bit more of a lead in to the quote that has been included. I think that the section reads fairly well now, though it is perhaps a bit long. If anyone sees a way to pair it down while retaining the important information that would be great!
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I agree to any your conditions to protect from removal my additions to the article "Discipline and Punish". Must I write the letter to the participant of
Psychiatrick with a request to improve my additions? Or Are you going to agree with Psychiatrick about that? I translate from Russian into English
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due to the fact that they seem a bit unintelligible and I think they've disimproved the article. Normally I'd be inclined to copy-edit the material and there is some good content there, but it would take a bit of work to sort out. Perhaps it could be copied to the talk page until other editors get a
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could assist you in translating material? Psychiatrick is also interested in the history of institutions so they might be willing to help. Otherwise, I'd argue that you should post article content on the talk page first and we could then try and copy-edit it and make sure its properly sourced to an
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I've cleaned up the discipline section. It contained two major flaws: 1) an introduction which was essentially a redundant statement of the main themes of the book, 2) a concluding paragraph that appeared to be somewhat irrelevant to the article, and frankly, a personal opinion (it argued that the
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I havw never heard of an expert translator who would call the authors own decision to translate the title of their work in a specific way "an error" or insist that the most literal translation is necessarily the most correct. Also "discipline" is not a synonym of "punish", particularly not in the
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Prisons in modern understanding appeared three quarters of the century later of this execution, and the daily routine was made in prison for juvenile prisoners already. Juvenile prisoners were obliged to work 9 hours in the workshops each day, to study 2 hours at prison school each day. So, the
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I grant to you the right to change my text thus as you will consider the necessary. You can ask me questions that to specify not clear for you places in my text. I asked
Psychiatrick and other participants in English Knowledge (XXG) and Russian Knowledge (XXG) to help me with a translation of my
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This article is very well-written, and it helped me better understand the argument being made by
Foucault. The only critique that I recognized when reading the article was its heavy reliance on speculative data/understanding. The author/s often cite the correct passages to show what Foucault was
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There is an interesting problem in my additions. Need it cancel сapital punishment completely today or need it keep theсapital punishment for terrorists and maniacs? Can it overcome shortcomings of modern imprisonment in principle? Foucault's merit consists that
Foucault put these problems.
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Maybe you should make your own translation, using the principle of seeing two words as synonyms if their ranges of meaning overlap. That would be a very novel approach to literary translation. And yes you are exactly insisting that only a literal translation is correct, and in doing so you are
854:. I checked out your article in the Russian Knowledge (XXG) using the (inadequate) Google Translation service. So far as I can tell, it looks like a very good article. The main problem with your addition to this article, however, is your level of English. Perhaps a Russian-language editor like
1126:• The prison generates recidivists. The overwhelming number of prisoners – is those who leave imprisonment not for the first time. Existence in prison is way of life of recidivists. Recidivists get used not to care about food and the dwelling, about job searches and livelihood in prison.
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No, it's not silly. As I mention above, I'm going by the words in the title, which do not translate to "Discipline and Punish", no matter who says they do, and no matter how long they've said it. But I don't care; I was just trying to lend some translation expertise in case it might help.
1008:• Columns of the prisoners chained in a chain were cancelled in France. These columns were stretched on roads of all country to the ports of Brest and Toulon. The caravans of the prisoners chained by one general chain were a tradition which is going back to an era of slaves on
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makes everything new and new criminal men, instead of corrects them irrespective of, whether they sit in solitary cells or they perform work useless for them. 30-40 supervisors can keep own safety and control over 1000-1500 prisoners in prison only relying on informers.
1489:, depending on context; so, as is often the case, English is less ambiguous. I'm not calling for a change to the accepted English version of this book's title, but I would say that Foucault made an error if he really put forth the notion that the English translation of
1445:- but the range of connotations does not correspond. 'Supervise' is perhaps closest of all, but again the word has different associations. 'Observe' is rather too neutral, though Foucault is aware of the aggression involved in any one-sided observation. In the end
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articles from
Russian into English, but I didn't receive the answer or I was refused. Therefore I was compelled to do my texts in Russian simple, clear and laconic. It is easy to translate such my texts from Russian into English.
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and executions. Intolerable corporal pain isn't connected any more with criminal punishment already. Whole army of supervisors, prison doctors and priests comes on change to the executioner as to the specialist in causing pain.
904:? There might be some people there willing to help you with translation. OK. I'm going to move your recent additions to the talk page and, we can work them up a bit over the next while and then add them back to the article.
1437:, has proved unsatisfactory on various counts. To begin with, Foucault uses the infinitive, which, as here, may have the effect of an 'impersonal imperative'. Such a nuance is denied us in English. More seriously the verb
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was the word chosen by
Bentham's French translator for what he wrote as "inspect" ... and that word has no exact translation into English. Foucault himself apparently suggested the use of "discipline" (I'm sure that had
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I've never heard it translated as Crime and
Punishment, either. The Sheridan translation includes a translator's note in the beginning that addresses this specifically. Here is the first of the three paragraphs:
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to translate the book's original French title into "Crime and
Punishment" is not in and of itself enough to justify listing it there, absent reliable evidence that any significant number of people have ever
1140:• Imprisonment dooms a family of the criminal man to poverty after imprisonment of the only supporter. As a result the son of the thief becomes the thief frequently too. It leads to new crimes eventually.
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Well, you've already posted on Psychiatrick's talk-page and, if he's inclined, he may post here. I'm not a "moderator" or anything, by the way, just another editor like yourself. Did you ask for help at the
1005:• Use of prisoners at public works – under repair of roads were cancelled. Prisoners were chained in shackles and iron collars. These prisoners answered with curses in reply to contempt in side of crowd.
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1270:? I have been told that the title of Foucalt's famous work is known by that title. Should it appear on the disambiguation page? If you google search Foucalt Crime and Punishment you end up on that page.--
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Yes, Maunus is correct. I have the book and have read it also, and it was published in English as "Discipline and Punish." "Crime and Punishment" is the English title of the Dostoyevski novel.
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has no adequate English equivalent. Our noun 'surveillance' has an altogether too restricted and technical use. Jeremy Bentham used the term 'inspect' - which Foucault translates as
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Conclusion: punishment becomes the most hidden part of criminal procedure today gradually. Efficiency of punishment is defined by its inevitability, instead of spectacular influence.
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Courts began to apply in Modern history such punishment as imprisonment, forced hard labor, penal servitude, a ban on residence in certain places, expulsion instead of
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There were discussions about opportunity to pay work of prisoners and possibilities of the prisoner to refuse from some types of works and to organize a strike.
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Would you object if I moved your recent article additions to this talk page so that we could then improve them a little before re-adding them to the article?
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Yes, all of the above text can be sourced to Discipline and Punish.I pointed out pages of quotes from the Russian edition of this book of Foucault
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https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C_%D0%B8_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C
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page if a translation had ever been published under that title but I can't see that it has. Incidentally it shocked me how bad the article is.
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I think the person who told you that was confusing this book with Dostojevsky's. The only alternative title I know of is "Birth of the Prison".
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Yes, but this is a book that has been published in several English language editions all of which are under the title "Discipline and Punish".
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Well the page exists and it existence seems justifiable to me; its inclusion of this page would not (unless a so-named translation exists).
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There is a lengthy translator's note at the beginning, at least in my copy, more or less apologizing for the inadequacy of the translation.
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Possibility of the round-the-clock supervision of prisoners is a main goal of construction of prison “Panopticon” according to the plan of
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on a face or a shoulder of the criminal man had disappeared. The body as a target of punishments disappeared. • The public repentance and
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That is a very silly thing to say. Especially if you haven't read the book. Discipline is a central concept in it, as is surveillance.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Thanks for the info. Amusing to see a translator claim that the nuance of that verb form can't be expressed in English. The French
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To delete is your right. These my additions are a translation of my article in the Russian Knowledge (XXG) about Foucault's book.
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Ha! Get back to me when you've had a few more English lessons. Then it'll be a more fair match to determine who's silly.
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The essence of prison reform since the end of 18 century before the beginning of 19 century was reduced to the following
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It doesn't matter how you would choose to literally translate the original French title. It matters what title was
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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contradicting both the professional translator and the author which is as I insist "silly" putting it mild.
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A criticisms section could be helpful especially how Foucault self critiques his own work in a later book.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1027:• The execution accustomed by audience to cruelty whereas punishment had to disaccustom from cruelty.
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The viewpoint on the punishment section, in comparison to the other sections, seems underrepresented.
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be translated into English — we title our articles about books with the titles that the books were
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Arguments of opponents of prison reform and replacement of executions and tortures by imprisonment
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Nor have you seen me insisting that literal translations are necessarily the most correct. And
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Somehow, this article should mention this. Why is it that this title was translated to
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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What's needed here is not a debate about how the original French title can or can't
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Constant supervision prevent from necessity to apply corporal punishments too.
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and mass surveillance-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060221042017/http://www.foucault.qut.edu.au/dp.html
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There is no basis for such a disambiguation page. And yes, the article is bad.
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You can look at these references in my article in the Russian Knowledge (XXG).
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I'm not familiar with the work, but from a quick look at the fr.wp article (
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to execution by quartering in France for attempt of murder of the king
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I'm inclined to delete this series of recent, unsourced additions
1163:. Can I first ask you if all of the above text can be sourced to
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Is there a translation of "Surveiller et punir" that equates to
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translation of its original foreign-language title, either, as
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were remained in Russia, Austria and Prussia still some time.
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to do with his long nights at S&M bars during that time).
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To get back to the question, I could support adding to the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Any closer translation of the French title of this book,
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Low-importance social and political philosophy articles
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of Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon penitentiary, drawn by
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Start-Class social and political philosophy articles
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some evidence can be found that Foucault's book has
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with the criminal man, and judges – with murderers.
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Social and political philosophy task force articles
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19:This is the
1695:, not with
1032:executioner
1024:sometimes.
786:Daniel Case
724:—Preceding
199:Start-class
148:free images
31:not a forum
1849:Categories
1836:Report bug
1577:surveiller
1571:discipline
1550:discipline
1496:and Punish
1443:surveiller
1439:surveiller
1336:discipline
1324:surveiller
1289:WP:CHICAGO
1229:Pseymour24
1072:Panopticon
777:Surveiller
718:Criticisms
652:discussion
297:Philosophy
286:philosophy
233:Literature
228:Philosophy
1819:this tool
1812:this tool
1685:literally
1554:to punish
1493:would be
1487:punishing
1483:to punish
1293:WP:WAWARD
1081:Elevation
1022:barbarity
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1825:Cheers.—
1718:actually
1713:possible
1705:actually
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1374:actually
1366:actually
1249:Taylmatt
1209:Taylmatt
1045:tortures
989:birching
752:and not
726:unsigned
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1749:my edit
1722:Bearcat
1693:reality
1656:snunɐɯ·
1652:·maunus
1600:snunɐɯ·
1596:·maunus
1541:snunɐɯ·
1537:·maunus
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1382:literal
1357:snunɐɯ·
1353:·maunus
1332:monitor
1311:snunɐɯ·
1307:·maunus
1285:WP:FOUR
1243:Summary
1159:Thanks
1085:section
1010:galleys
1000:pillory
782:nothing
684:on the
324:on the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1665:Mcewan
1638:Mcewan
1479:punish
1419:warshy
1370:actual
1334:, not
1161:Valery
1131:prison
1129:• The
1095:, 1791
852:Valery
850:Hello
565:France
556:France
515:France
205:scale.
126:Google
1485:, or
1475:punir
481:Books
421:Books
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1726:talk
1669:talk
1642:talk
1609:Eric
1582:Eric
1560:and
1525:Eric
1500:Eric
1400:talk
1340:Eric
1253:talk
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1194:talk
1173:talk
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1089:plan
1087:and
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466:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1793:RfC
1763:to
1562:AHD
1466:\\
1378:not
1330:or
1326:as
807:by
676:Low
584:???
316:Low
176:TWL
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