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state outright that
Richard III was (or wasn't) the beneficiary. One possible scenario would be that since Richard III declared ALL of Edward IV's children illegitimate, he had no need to kill ANY of them, and so did not benefit from their deaths because his hold on the throne was no less secure with them alive (and illegitimate) than dead. A second possible scenario would be that since Richard III didn't kill any of Edward IV's DAUGHTERS, killing the SONS didn't secure the thrown to HIMSELF, but, rather, to the oldest daughter (whose line would be next in line after the line of the youngest son, under male-preference primogeniture), and that if he DID kill the sons he'd have killed the daughters too, indicating that Richard III didn't do away with the Tower Princes but Henry VII did, as Henry VII could well-afford to leave the daughters alive as he was married to the eldest and the throne would be secured to such children as he and his Queen Consort (or Regnant, to Yorkists) might create, regardless whether anyone traced Succession through Lancastrian or Yorkist lines. And a third possible scenario would be "Male-preference primogeniture wasn't in force yet, Matilda's ancient failed claim creating a precedent AGAINST female rule, and the daughters of Edward IV were not seen as being in the line of Succession, so by killing only the sons Richard III secured the throne to himself". Any of these three MIGHT be known to be true by a historian with more knowledge than I have. But if two of these scenarios can be dispensed with, then do so, by elaborating the evidence against them. You can't just say "Richard III was the only beneficiary" and make us obligated to take your word for it. If you have sound arguments that Henry VII doesn't benefit by the killings (in the absence of killing the daughters too), make those arguments instead of saying "Richard III was the beneficiary" without discussion or elaboration.
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As for the text "The historical consensus is he and his brother
Richard were killed, probably between July and September 1483; debate on who gave the orders, and why, continues, although their uncle Richard III was the beneficiary" which are in this article at the time I'm typing this, I would never
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I think he's suggesting that you are expressing an opinion as to whether Edward of
Westminster was the heir to the throne in 1453 (the Yorkists wouldn't have agreed), but it's not relevant anyway, as what is currently stated in the article is factually correct.
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apologies, I spelt 'I' 'IO' for some reason, I meant I could have been confused by the indentation, not you. To complicate tings further, it was only on the second post I realised that
Firefox logged me out. Helpful, not. Cheers!
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King Henry VI on the death of
Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester." While true at that point in time, he eventually did have a son with Margaret of Anjou in 1453, Edward of Westminster, making Edward next in line.
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Are you implying that I am User:Atp-ptzu, who made the original suggestion? GRC cannot be suggesting anything about me, as they have not replied to me. Or am I
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I do not understand. Are you suggesting that it is POV / OR to state that Henry VI was childless until his only son and heir was born in Oct 1453? (
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In the
Marriage and Children section, Edward V's date of birth is listed as 4 November 1470. The correct date is 2 November 1470.
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Sorry. I was merely confused by the indentation. And I wasn't expecting the question from you.
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19:This is the
1186:ClueBot III
907:Structure:
730:Middle Ages
677:Middle Ages
312:On this day
248:written in
148:free images
31:not a forum
1529:Categories
1511:ClareWCull
1486:ClareWCull
1468:|answered=
1112:discussion
1094:discussion
1076:discussion
1223:childless
1153:Archive 2
1148:Archive 1
1108:Edward IV
1090:Edward IV
1072:Edward IV
787:Biography
571:Biography
503:Biography
387:is rated
307:Main Page
259:travelled
88:if needed
71:Be polite
25:Edward IV
21:talk page
1399:RMCD bot
1367:——Serial
1334:——Serial
1297:——Serial
1243:Dimadick
1228:Atp-ptzu
1209:RMCD bot
1133:Archives
868:criteria
799:Medieval
795:European
508:Military
271:artefact
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1181:90 days
791:British
757:on the
478:on the
389:B-class
309:in the
275:analyse
267:defence
207:90Â days
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1257:WP:POV
1110:, see
1092:, see
1074:, see
395:scale.
354:, and
263:centre
255:colour
126:Google
1472:|ans=
1462:This
1261:WP:OR
1141:Index
1100:Moved
376:This
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1506:Done
1490:talk
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1294:).
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749:High
560:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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